<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Jun 13 2009, 01:05 PM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jun 13 2009, 01:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->qwestion:can greek-catholicism(orthodox rituals but catholic doctrine) be considered a form of inculturation?
[right][snapback]98701[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yes. Completely and utterly. The Greeks and Russians know this all too well. There's a pretty Ukrainian girl where I work who is Orthodox I think (actually, she could also be atheist, not sure....). Though Ukrainian, she, like many of her countrymen, owns to being Russian by ethnicity and by larger national affiliation. She most definitely considers the catholic church's inculturation routine in her country to be an act of direct aggression.
Repeating stuff pasted long ago:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#CatholicVsOrthodox
<b>Greece:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â ...the most contentious issue for Orthodox believers are the Byzantine Catholics, who follow Eastern rites but are loyal to Rome. The Orthodox church views them as a kind of Trojan horse to convert Orthodox believers.
From: New York Times - Pope Visits <b>Greece</b> Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â ...inroads made by the Catholic Church in other predominantly Orthodox states in eastern Europe have earned it a reputation for conversion.
  Fr Nektarios, abbot of a monastery on the Corinthian Gulf, said: "It is a fairytale to say that the Pope is just coming on a personal pilgrimage. He is doing this because he wants the Orthodox Church to recognise him. He wants recognition as a global religious leader.
  "Popes have fooled the Orthodox Church in the past. This pontiff will not be allowed to repeat the trick. He has the burden of history on his back. He cannot be trusted. You don't honour a criminal, you put him in jail."
From: Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guardian Unlimited - Pope's visit [to Orthodox Ukraine] fails to heal old wounds, June 28, 2001:
  With divisions between the Roman Catholic and Oxthodox churches as wide as ever, the Pontiff's efforts at reconciliation seem unlikely to succeed...
  Catholics and Orthodox have been clashing in Ukraine since the middle ages. They were still at it through the 1990s, when communist suppression melted away to expose unhealed old wounds from the distant past.
  This week, in his first ever visit to Ukraine as pope, John Paul has moved to try to settle the conflict before he dies. But the Moscow patriarchate has told the Vatican to get stuffed.
  John Paul's central ambition has been to undo the Great Schism and ultimately unite the two faiths while at the same time celebrating and paying tribute to the Greek Catholics of western Ukraine who suffered so grievously under Stalin and became the world's biggest banned church. But the two aims are incompatible. <b>The Orthodox still view the Greek Catholics as heretical apostates wooed or forced away by the Vatican, the Catholic Poles, and the Austro-Hungarians to assert Roman Catholicism and undermine Orthodoxy.</b>
  There is plenty historical accuracy in that view. But the legions of young, American-educated theologians who are an integral element of the current Vatican roadshow exude contempt for the arcane, old-fashioned conspiracy theories of the Orthodox. In Lviv on Wednesday, a million Catholics remembered the outstanding Uniate leader of the 20th century, Metropolitan Andrei Sheptytsky. But in Moscow they quote him as having declared: "Ukrainians are merely the instrument of the divine scheme to wrest the Christian east from the clutches of heresy [Orthodoxy] and house it in the bosom of the [Catholic] Apostolic See and the European Community." [I.e. the Uniate Sheptytsky admits Catholics in the East are a wedge to open Eastern Orthodoxy up for Catholicism. And it seems Ukraine's separation from Russia, to join with Europe instead, is expected to be a step towards that.]
  <b>And at Kiev's Monastery of the Caves</b>, Russian Orthodoxy's oldest shrine, crowds of devout elderly people prostrated themselves while <b>praying passionately for the pope to depart their country.</b>
  "I'm not going to talk about politics," said a black-robed Orthodox priest who declined to give his name. <b>"But the pope has never wished us well and can only bring us harm."</b>
(Exactly.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->IMO, the above is entirely catholic aggression too. Catholicism always uses inculturation to get a foot in the door.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#OrthodoxCatholic
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Some Greek Orthodox Christians compared the Pope to the Devil himself
New York Times - Pope Visits Greece Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001:
  Orthodox priests and monks have held protest vigils and marched under signs that read <b>"the heretic pope" and "two-horned monster of Rome."</b> Archbishop Christodoulos, head of the Greek Orthodox Church, has vowed not to pray alongside the Roman Catholic pope, who arrives in Athens on Friday.
Guardian Unlimited - Monks protest at Pope as Greece goes on strike, April 27, 2001:
  <b>"Out with the two-horned beast, the Pope of Rome 666!" read a banner. "No to the leader of heresy," read another.</b>
Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001:
  <b>The Orthodox priest [Father Chrysostomos of Athens] declared: "He will infect our country,"</b>
  A poster outside Fr Chrysostomos's church spells out Orthodox opposition to the visit. <b>Denouncing the Pope as a "false prophet and the anti-Christ"</b> who adorns his mitre with "666", it announces a demonstration to be held tomorrow against the visit and lists the historical crimes for which successive popes were allegedly responsible.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hindus should use this to silence catholic verbal terrorists. Greek orthodox priests call the pope the devil and a heretic. And they should know how well he and his church fit the description, since Greek orthodoxy is more true to the original imperial Roman christianism than catholicism is. Catholicism, which regularly inquisitioned other christians for heresy, is a heresy itself. To hide it, the Vatican has spent a long time trying to convince people that orthodoxy is a catholic heresy instead (and frequently attempted to convert-or-kill eastern christianism into silence as a way to 'prove' that its claim is legitimate.)
[right][snapback]98701[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yes. Completely and utterly. The Greeks and Russians know this all too well. There's a pretty Ukrainian girl where I work who is Orthodox I think (actually, she could also be atheist, not sure....). Though Ukrainian, she, like many of her countrymen, owns to being Russian by ethnicity and by larger national affiliation. She most definitely considers the catholic church's inculturation routine in her country to be an act of direct aggression.
Repeating stuff pasted long ago:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#CatholicVsOrthodox
<b>Greece:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â ...the most contentious issue for Orthodox believers are the Byzantine Catholics, who follow Eastern rites but are loyal to Rome. The Orthodox church views them as a kind of Trojan horse to convert Orthodox believers.
From: New York Times - Pope Visits <b>Greece</b> Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â ...inroads made by the Catholic Church in other predominantly Orthodox states in eastern Europe have earned it a reputation for conversion.
  Fr Nektarios, abbot of a monastery on the Corinthian Gulf, said: "It is a fairytale to say that the Pope is just coming on a personal pilgrimage. He is doing this because he wants the Orthodox Church to recognise him. He wants recognition as a global religious leader.
  "Popes have fooled the Orthodox Church in the past. This pontiff will not be allowed to repeat the trick. He has the burden of history on his back. He cannot be trusted. You don't honour a criminal, you put him in jail."
From: Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guardian Unlimited - Pope's visit [to Orthodox Ukraine] fails to heal old wounds, June 28, 2001:
  With divisions between the Roman Catholic and Oxthodox churches as wide as ever, the Pontiff's efforts at reconciliation seem unlikely to succeed...
  Catholics and Orthodox have been clashing in Ukraine since the middle ages. They were still at it through the 1990s, when communist suppression melted away to expose unhealed old wounds from the distant past.
  This week, in his first ever visit to Ukraine as pope, John Paul has moved to try to settle the conflict before he dies. But the Moscow patriarchate has told the Vatican to get stuffed.
  John Paul's central ambition has been to undo the Great Schism and ultimately unite the two faiths while at the same time celebrating and paying tribute to the Greek Catholics of western Ukraine who suffered so grievously under Stalin and became the world's biggest banned church. But the two aims are incompatible. <b>The Orthodox still view the Greek Catholics as heretical apostates wooed or forced away by the Vatican, the Catholic Poles, and the Austro-Hungarians to assert Roman Catholicism and undermine Orthodoxy.</b>
  There is plenty historical accuracy in that view. But the legions of young, American-educated theologians who are an integral element of the current Vatican roadshow exude contempt for the arcane, old-fashioned conspiracy theories of the Orthodox. In Lviv on Wednesday, a million Catholics remembered the outstanding Uniate leader of the 20th century, Metropolitan Andrei Sheptytsky. But in Moscow they quote him as having declared: "Ukrainians are merely the instrument of the divine scheme to wrest the Christian east from the clutches of heresy [Orthodoxy] and house it in the bosom of the [Catholic] Apostolic See and the European Community." [I.e. the Uniate Sheptytsky admits Catholics in the East are a wedge to open Eastern Orthodoxy up for Catholicism. And it seems Ukraine's separation from Russia, to join with Europe instead, is expected to be a step towards that.]
  <b>And at Kiev's Monastery of the Caves</b>, Russian Orthodoxy's oldest shrine, crowds of devout elderly people prostrated themselves while <b>praying passionately for the pope to depart their country.</b>
  "I'm not going to talk about politics," said a black-robed Orthodox priest who declined to give his name. <b>"But the pope has never wished us well and can only bring us harm."</b>
(Exactly.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->IMO, the above is entirely catholic aggression too. Catholicism always uses inculturation to get a foot in the door.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#OrthodoxCatholic
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Some Greek Orthodox Christians compared the Pope to the Devil himself
New York Times - Pope Visits Greece Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001:
  Orthodox priests and monks have held protest vigils and marched under signs that read <b>"the heretic pope" and "two-horned monster of Rome."</b> Archbishop Christodoulos, head of the Greek Orthodox Church, has vowed not to pray alongside the Roman Catholic pope, who arrives in Athens on Friday.
Guardian Unlimited - Monks protest at Pope as Greece goes on strike, April 27, 2001:
  <b>"Out with the two-horned beast, the Pope of Rome 666!" read a banner. "No to the leader of heresy," read another.</b>
Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001:
  <b>The Orthodox priest [Father Chrysostomos of Athens] declared: "He will infect our country,"</b>
  A poster outside Fr Chrysostomos's church spells out Orthodox opposition to the visit. <b>Denouncing the Pope as a "false prophet and the anti-Christ"</b> who adorns his mitre with "666", it announces a demonstration to be held tomorrow against the visit and lists the historical crimes for which successive popes were allegedly responsible.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hindus should use this to silence catholic verbal terrorists. Greek orthodox priests call the pope the devil and a heretic. And they should know how well he and his church fit the description, since Greek orthodoxy is more true to the original imperial Roman christianism than catholicism is. Catholicism, which regularly inquisitioned other christians for heresy, is a heresy itself. To hide it, the Vatican has spent a long time trying to convince people that orthodoxy is a catholic heresy instead (and frequently attempted to convert-or-kill eastern christianism into silence as a way to 'prove' that its claim is legitimate.)