01-21-2005, 02:51 PM
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In the galaxy of Hindu saints and sages, I dont see how one is more elevated than the other. This thinking of importance is egoistic thinking, and only egoists promote such views.
was addressed to Sankara as the egoist ? or non-ex-monks like me ?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, seriously now. This is very important.
I was not referring to Shankara. It is we who elevate Shankara and forget the dalit. This shows our mindset.
This episode shows that the dalit was fully aware of the mahavakyas and vedanta without any formal tutoring, and he had to demonstrate the truths to Shankara in a way that it would pierce him and make him realise. It shows that vedanta was already quite well known to the people then even dalits. It shows the dalit toying with Shankara as if he (Shankara) was a little boy marvelling with the wonder of his newfound toy (vedanta).
There is another angle here; this momentous event shows that we can only realise vedanta and advaita, if we were only able to apply it in real life, and acknowledge that we are no different from anyone else, even dalits. And that we are no better than a dalit. Hence my point, there is no better or greater than others, that Shankara is no better than any dalit.
It also hints that maybe being like a dalit is what it takes to realise this without any formal tutoring in vedanta. Living in poverty without any name and pride like a dalit, is what that takes to achieve this realisation.
As for us, until we see and acknowledge this, we have not realised, but just quoting texts and showing self importance. The truth and realisation lies in 'treating others as our equals, as ourselves'. When we realise this, we can hug and kiss a dalit or anyone as Amma does, welcome them into our homes, share the same meal in the same plate with them. It is at this point that all the bonds that fetter the soul breaks, all the mindsets blown away, all the prejudices ripped out by the roots.
Its only when we do this can we say, yes, I know vedanta and advaita, I know the truth of the mahavakyas! Till then its a make believe thing, and we talk to impress others and sooth our ego.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The best option is Judicial activism. As in the constitution, resrvations were meant to be for only first 10 years of the republic. They were not supposed to be perpetual. When Judiciary decides that reservations have served there purpose, it can force politicians to abolish it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yaawn. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Alright, lets wait another century for judicial activism to abolish job reservations. Meanwhile dont complain about it then as you have already accepted this condition, this karma.
If people can make a difference between Hinduism and India, very quickly they will realise that India is an anti-Hindu state and hostile to Hindus, them everything will fall into place sooner. And quickly they will realise that Hinduism does not belong to them and neither shall they presume to be its spokespersons.
We are saying that we the patrons of the religion, from any part of the whole, also have a say, and we have an interest in seeing the govts in India relinquish control over the 40,000 hindu temples and that fellow Hindus of whatever caste shall not be discriminated upon by other Hindus, Indians or the govts. And we mean it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact that this statement is ludicrous, shouldn't blind us to the alarming mentality behind it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think you are even beginning to grasp the seriousness of the issues taking place and the momentousness of the kanchi episode. As the trial unfolds you will see the contained wrath of the people unleashed. Please take what I say seriously. You guys have screwed it up big time, so better make amends with the people right away.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And I'm awaiting for details on the "..we want to bring international pressure on India to drop all these caste based reservations" bit<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, not many are for this idea, so we have to wait. Too bad. Indians are not serious enough to solve problems, just complain and complain onlee. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sunder, group karma is an expression to denote where more than one person shares a similar experience, condition or fate. An entire family is killed in a car accident, and we cognise that all had a similar karma to experience, or a group karma. All the tsunami victims shared a similar karma; they were born for the purpose of experiencing this. The pandava 6 had a similar karma for 13 years. Therefore we express it by saying 'a group karma' or group experience.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Do not provoke us with "Taking it up with the Lord"... From your perch it's a skeptic 'do what you can', but when the Brahmins really wail out for Help from Above, the Help shall come. Do not think you are scoffing, you are asking for the unthinkable.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I an neither scoffing nor being a sceptic. I say this in all seriousness with no malice to anyone. Better reach out to the Lord right away. The unthinkable is going to happen.
Regards.
Pathma
In the galaxy of Hindu saints and sages, I dont see how one is more elevated than the other. This thinking of importance is egoistic thinking, and only egoists promote such views.
was addressed to Sankara as the egoist ? or non-ex-monks like me ?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, seriously now. This is very important.
I was not referring to Shankara. It is we who elevate Shankara and forget the dalit. This shows our mindset.
This episode shows that the dalit was fully aware of the mahavakyas and vedanta without any formal tutoring, and he had to demonstrate the truths to Shankara in a way that it would pierce him and make him realise. It shows that vedanta was already quite well known to the people then even dalits. It shows the dalit toying with Shankara as if he (Shankara) was a little boy marvelling with the wonder of his newfound toy (vedanta).
There is another angle here; this momentous event shows that we can only realise vedanta and advaita, if we were only able to apply it in real life, and acknowledge that we are no different from anyone else, even dalits. And that we are no better than a dalit. Hence my point, there is no better or greater than others, that Shankara is no better than any dalit.
It also hints that maybe being like a dalit is what it takes to realise this without any formal tutoring in vedanta. Living in poverty without any name and pride like a dalit, is what that takes to achieve this realisation.
As for us, until we see and acknowledge this, we have not realised, but just quoting texts and showing self importance. The truth and realisation lies in 'treating others as our equals, as ourselves'. When we realise this, we can hug and kiss a dalit or anyone as Amma does, welcome them into our homes, share the same meal in the same plate with them. It is at this point that all the bonds that fetter the soul breaks, all the mindsets blown away, all the prejudices ripped out by the roots.
Its only when we do this can we say, yes, I know vedanta and advaita, I know the truth of the mahavakyas! Till then its a make believe thing, and we talk to impress others and sooth our ego.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The best option is Judicial activism. As in the constitution, resrvations were meant to be for only first 10 years of the republic. They were not supposed to be perpetual. When Judiciary decides that reservations have served there purpose, it can force politicians to abolish it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yaawn. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Alright, lets wait another century for judicial activism to abolish job reservations. Meanwhile dont complain about it then as you have already accepted this condition, this karma.If people can make a difference between Hinduism and India, very quickly they will realise that India is an anti-Hindu state and hostile to Hindus, them everything will fall into place sooner. And quickly they will realise that Hinduism does not belong to them and neither shall they presume to be its spokespersons.
We are saying that we the patrons of the religion, from any part of the whole, also have a say, and we have an interest in seeing the govts in India relinquish control over the 40,000 hindu temples and that fellow Hindus of whatever caste shall not be discriminated upon by other Hindus, Indians or the govts. And we mean it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact that this statement is ludicrous, shouldn't blind us to the alarming mentality behind it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think you are even beginning to grasp the seriousness of the issues taking place and the momentousness of the kanchi episode. As the trial unfolds you will see the contained wrath of the people unleashed. Please take what I say seriously. You guys have screwed it up big time, so better make amends with the people right away.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And I'm awaiting for details on the "..we want to bring international pressure on India to drop all these caste based reservations" bit<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, not many are for this idea, so we have to wait. Too bad. Indians are not serious enough to solve problems, just complain and complain onlee. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->Sunder, group karma is an expression to denote where more than one person shares a similar experience, condition or fate. An entire family is killed in a car accident, and we cognise that all had a similar karma to experience, or a group karma. All the tsunami victims shared a similar karma; they were born for the purpose of experiencing this. The pandava 6 had a similar karma for 13 years. Therefore we express it by saying 'a group karma' or group experience.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Do not provoke us with "Taking it up with the Lord"... From your perch it's a skeptic 'do what you can', but when the Brahmins really wail out for Help from Above, the Help shall come. Do not think you are scoffing, you are asking for the unthinkable.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I an neither scoffing nor being a sceptic. I say this in all seriousness with no malice to anyone. Better reach out to the Lord right away. The unthinkable is going to happen.
Regards.
Pathma