1. <!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->As an optimist, I also think that Hindu concepts are accepted only very slowly now because rightly or wrongly, Hinduism is associated with the poverty of India. Now, as India Industrializes, the wealth and power of India will automatically be associated as a strength of Hinduism (hence the growing popularity of Hinduism).Â
A Big reason why the next 20-30 years are critical in putting as many obstructions as possible to Christian Missionary activity.[right][snapback]100147[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The catholic church is chasing India and China both because of population numbers AND because that is where the future of money and power inevitably lies.
Their whole goal is to get India and China ASAP, especially when these are on the rise. So that when a christian majority is implemented and starts <i>riding the wave of prosperity that Hindus are currently creating</i> (and Chinese too, in our respective countries) after the immense havoc wreaked by christocolonialism, the church and its sheep can claim that "christianism is what brought prosperity to India/China/Asia".
The ancient GrecoRoman world was associated with culture, education and relative prosperity. From GrecoRomans' statements, christianism was associated with regression, ignorance and intolerance. Christianism didn't appeal to people with sense. It was forced upon people.
Today christianism's success is owing to their PR. And there is also Hindus' self-censureship on the cruel idiocy known as christianism, which can be remedied only if Hindus would stop secularly protecting christianism.
2. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But the fact of the matter is that Vedic techniques do work, whether it's Yoga or Kirtan. They ideas were conceived over thousands of years specifically to calm the mind. Note how even a Non-Hindu acknowledges how Kirtan stabilizes the Mind. Hinduism's and Vedic technology's primarily goal was this. This Contrasts sharply with the rantings of Islamic and Christian preachers who use anger to destabilize the mind. In summary the key difference between Hinduism and Abrahamic religions can be seen. One disturbs the mind, the other stabilizes it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Mental stability is a natural side-effect of various Hindu practices, including what are seen as arts and skills. But you are also trivialising 'secularising' what the purpose of Yoga and Kirtanas is.
The rigorous <i>preparation</i> of character and conduct for doing proper Yoga - through observing the Yamas and Niyamas (what to abstain from doing, and what to do in order to cultivate oneself and the right frame of mind) - is what <i>stabilises</i> the mind and brings it (together with the other senses) under control. But Yoga itself is more than that. Its sole purpose is to become one with Brahman. Even the question that Arjuna asks of Krishna in the Gita about Yoga is already predicated on knowledge that the goal of Yoga and becoming a Yogi is to reach Bhagavan. See Chapter 12 of the Gita. Here, it starts with (sorry for bad transliteration, I can't read so good):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Arjuna uvaacha: evam satatayuktam ye bhaktaastvaam paryupaasate
ye chaapyaksharamavyaktam teshaam ke yogavittamaaha<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yogeshwara Krishna then explains to Arjuna how there are many ways of finding one's way back to Bhagavan, different paths suited to different people: that those unable to practice the Yoga and concentrate on him may be able to meditate on him, those who can't do that can just act (in accordance with Dharma) and then surrender the fruits of those actions to him.
Oh here: http://www.guruvayurappantemple.org/pdfs/S...rit_English.pdf
Chapter 12 starts from p.55 in Samskritam (Devanagiri), and it's sort of transliterated into Roman script from p.58.
It is in the same way that Kirtanas serve a purpose: singing about the Hindu Gods makes people's mind focus on them. Not merely stabilising it. Thinking about the Gods inspires the Hindus' minds, makes them feel energised by coming into contact with the very thought of their Gods (the way Bhima felt after hugging his brother Hanuman), brings peace and happiness, etcetera. By focussing any or all senses on Bhagavan - say through the abhyaasam of Yoga or singing Kirtanas - it expands the Hindus' minds, evolving their understanding through mental approach/contact with the perfect, and thereby enables/brings it into union with Bhagavan.
Bharatanatyam is based on Yoga and comes from Bhagavan as well: Shiva's dancing being Yogic in origin also make the humans performing it bring their body as well as their minds (since concentration is required) into a state of union with our Gods. Dancing and singing and Hindu instruments have the additional benefit that they not only engage the <i>performer</i> in their Gods (all actions, thoughts, the Ragaas and the meanings of their songs are concentrated on the Gods) but any viewers/listeners also take part in its effects to a level proportional to their involvement. This is why Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music or Bhajans (perhaps other N Hindu classical music too?) are performed in Hindu Temples. It is simultaneously worship of our Gods as well as enabling the Hindu worshippers who have made the pilgrimage to remain fully focussed on their Gods.
I don't do Yoga, nor sing all that much, but do support other Hindus in doing so since it provides them with a highly meaningful experience. Bhajans tend to be a Hindu artistic skill/practice and experience cultivated among N Hindus, although there are some Tamizh Bhajans too. (But I do listen to Carnatic music like Subbulakshmi's Annamacharya Samkirtanas and occasionally hum along or whatever it is that I do while drawing. In any case I think they are inspiring.) My mother and aunt regularly regurgitate the common Hindu view in TN that, just like Shlokas, our Hindu music is sacred because all aspects concern our Gods, and that by singing our songs, the experience and meaning is similar to singing or reciting Shlokas - which people also do. Many Hindus devoted to their Gods had expressly centred their life around Hindu music, since it was their way of worshipping and finding closeness with their Gods.
When Hindus perform and/or listen to the lyrics set to ragaas of songs by people like say Dikshitar and other Carnatic or Hindustani music geniuses, the contents impart a lot of truths about our Gods while the Ragaas allow the Rasikas - those who get wrapped up in the experience, and some of the older generations even enter into a meditative state in their appreciation - to approach our Bhagavan by 'concentrating' and 'meditating' on our Gods in this manner. The music is from and about the Hindu Gods, and its purpose is for the performers' and listeners' entire beings to become attuned to them. (Sadly for the christoterrorist church, the influence of Hindu music and Yoga and Bharatanatyam on the practitioners and viewers/listeners can't be appropriated: the effects lead only to the Hindu Gods. It is solely "in their frequency". Church can only copy outward form, never the meaning nor ever reproduce the effect.)
Anyway, the point was that the purpose and effect of Yoga, Kirtanas, Bharatanatyam etcetera is more than merely stabilising people's minds.
3. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->She has been conditioned to be scared of calling herself a Hindu. (Look at the Racist venomous hatred that pours out of the Western media against Hinduism).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->If one were to suppose she were a Hindu (I doubt it), then her cowardice is no excuse. Other people do not run away from their Mother Religion because of the constant christolying.
Yes christian brainwashing is potent. But is there no responsibility in oneself? It is upto our own individual persons to maintain and value the treasure of Hindu Dharma which we've inherited. There is no excuse for shutting off our own ability to distinguish between truth and falsehood, between investigating for ourselves the truths of our Hindu Dharma versus blindly believing the nonsense that the untrustworthy and motivated of terrorist ideologies try to sell in order to wean us off it.
Can't accept willful stupidity or stupidity that could be prevented by investing a little of one's own effort.
4. <!--QuoteBegin-shamu+Aug 6 2009, 01:08 PM-->QUOTE(shamu @ Aug 6 2009, 01:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->rightly or wrongly, Hinduism is associated with the poverty of India. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Vice versa, christianity is associated with western prosperity. If western economy comes down, becoming a christian will become very uncool.[right][snapback]100149[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That may perhaps be the way one part of India thinks now (the Angelsk-speaking kind in particular), but the majority don't work that way. You are implying most Hindus have no real, meaningful reason to be Hindu. That is a very inaccurate view.
Hindu Dharma is a VERY attractive religion. So very attractive that it is beyond measuring.
Christianism knows full well that Hindu Dharma is incredibly attractive by nature and that left to itself, it would retain Hindus automatically. That is why
1. christianism lies about itself: advertising lies to make the hideous christianism seem better and 'true', even though the facts are that it is a religion of terror founded on lies, and
2. christianism lies about Hindu Dharma: in order to negate and slander this to its primary audience (the adherents, Hindus) to alienate them from it.
- Christianism is succeeding because of such two-way lying. It's because christianism is a con-artist and many people haven't figured out it is all a lie, but have been long conditioned to think jeebus is some divine character and that "all religions are equal" (where, to Hindus, "all religions" includes - besides our own - only christianism, islamism, possibly Buddhism, since many Hindus are unaware of others).
- Christianism is succeeding because - like the Romans (IIRC see Porphyrius for instance) said - it dumbs down its audience to debase them to its own foul level, so that they finally start 'understanding' and swallowing christian nonsense and so that they can't understand Hellenismos or Hindu Dharma (as the case may be) any more, and/or they start imagining christianism is on the same platform as the Natural Traditions.
I don't know anyone who is a Hindu because it is "cool". They are Hindu because they know the truth or profound meaning of the Religion. And THIS is what Hindus should be making those who are merely "born Hindu" aware of. THIS is what will keep Hindus Hindu. Not fickleness, about cool or uncool or other lame reasons. An intimate knowledge of their Hindu Dharma will inculcate an inability to relinquish it or accept the christolies about it.
5.
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rajan Zed is a good guy. [...] He is also the first Hindu chaplain to open the U.S. House of Representatives. (Some Xtian nuts shouted him down)[right][snapback]100147[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't know what a Hindu chaplain is. Don't comprehend the purpose behind Hindus opening the US House of Representatives (with invocations) either. What meaning does it have to Hindus? It is not a Hindu practice nor was it a Hindu objective before.
It is an American *christian* interest to want to open the House of Reps with a christian prayer, since they want to claim that "america is a christian country founded on christianism and that in gawd they trust". When in reality it is the Native Americans' country and belongs to their Grand Esprit, and may harbour all those who can live in peace, amity and with respect for them.
A Big reason why the next 20-30 years are critical in putting as many obstructions as possible to Christian Missionary activity.[right][snapback]100147[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The catholic church is chasing India and China both because of population numbers AND because that is where the future of money and power inevitably lies.
Their whole goal is to get India and China ASAP, especially when these are on the rise. So that when a christian majority is implemented and starts <i>riding the wave of prosperity that Hindus are currently creating</i> (and Chinese too, in our respective countries) after the immense havoc wreaked by christocolonialism, the church and its sheep can claim that "christianism is what brought prosperity to India/China/Asia".
The ancient GrecoRoman world was associated with culture, education and relative prosperity. From GrecoRomans' statements, christianism was associated with regression, ignorance and intolerance. Christianism didn't appeal to people with sense. It was forced upon people.
Today christianism's success is owing to their PR. And there is also Hindus' self-censureship on the cruel idiocy known as christianism, which can be remedied only if Hindus would stop secularly protecting christianism.
2. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But the fact of the matter is that Vedic techniques do work, whether it's Yoga or Kirtan. They ideas were conceived over thousands of years specifically to calm the mind. Note how even a Non-Hindu acknowledges how Kirtan stabilizes the Mind. Hinduism's and Vedic technology's primarily goal was this. This Contrasts sharply with the rantings of Islamic and Christian preachers who use anger to destabilize the mind. In summary the key difference between Hinduism and Abrahamic religions can be seen. One disturbs the mind, the other stabilizes it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Mental stability is a natural side-effect of various Hindu practices, including what are seen as arts and skills. But you are also trivialising 'secularising' what the purpose of Yoga and Kirtanas is.
The rigorous <i>preparation</i> of character and conduct for doing proper Yoga - through observing the Yamas and Niyamas (what to abstain from doing, and what to do in order to cultivate oneself and the right frame of mind) - is what <i>stabilises</i> the mind and brings it (together with the other senses) under control. But Yoga itself is more than that. Its sole purpose is to become one with Brahman. Even the question that Arjuna asks of Krishna in the Gita about Yoga is already predicated on knowledge that the goal of Yoga and becoming a Yogi is to reach Bhagavan. See Chapter 12 of the Gita. Here, it starts with (sorry for bad transliteration, I can't read so good):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Arjuna uvaacha: evam satatayuktam ye bhaktaastvaam paryupaasate
ye chaapyaksharamavyaktam teshaam ke yogavittamaaha<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yogeshwara Krishna then explains to Arjuna how there are many ways of finding one's way back to Bhagavan, different paths suited to different people: that those unable to practice the Yoga and concentrate on him may be able to meditate on him, those who can't do that can just act (in accordance with Dharma) and then surrender the fruits of those actions to him.
Oh here: http://www.guruvayurappantemple.org/pdfs/S...rit_English.pdf
Chapter 12 starts from p.55 in Samskritam (Devanagiri), and it's sort of transliterated into Roman script from p.58.
It is in the same way that Kirtanas serve a purpose: singing about the Hindu Gods makes people's mind focus on them. Not merely stabilising it. Thinking about the Gods inspires the Hindus' minds, makes them feel energised by coming into contact with the very thought of their Gods (the way Bhima felt after hugging his brother Hanuman), brings peace and happiness, etcetera. By focussing any or all senses on Bhagavan - say through the abhyaasam of Yoga or singing Kirtanas - it expands the Hindus' minds, evolving their understanding through mental approach/contact with the perfect, and thereby enables/brings it into union with Bhagavan.
Bharatanatyam is based on Yoga and comes from Bhagavan as well: Shiva's dancing being Yogic in origin also make the humans performing it bring their body as well as their minds (since concentration is required) into a state of union with our Gods. Dancing and singing and Hindu instruments have the additional benefit that they not only engage the <i>performer</i> in their Gods (all actions, thoughts, the Ragaas and the meanings of their songs are concentrated on the Gods) but any viewers/listeners also take part in its effects to a level proportional to their involvement. This is why Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music or Bhajans (perhaps other N Hindu classical music too?) are performed in Hindu Temples. It is simultaneously worship of our Gods as well as enabling the Hindu worshippers who have made the pilgrimage to remain fully focussed on their Gods.
I don't do Yoga, nor sing all that much, but do support other Hindus in doing so since it provides them with a highly meaningful experience. Bhajans tend to be a Hindu artistic skill/practice and experience cultivated among N Hindus, although there are some Tamizh Bhajans too. (But I do listen to Carnatic music like Subbulakshmi's Annamacharya Samkirtanas and occasionally hum along or whatever it is that I do while drawing. In any case I think they are inspiring.) My mother and aunt regularly regurgitate the common Hindu view in TN that, just like Shlokas, our Hindu music is sacred because all aspects concern our Gods, and that by singing our songs, the experience and meaning is similar to singing or reciting Shlokas - which people also do. Many Hindus devoted to their Gods had expressly centred their life around Hindu music, since it was their way of worshipping and finding closeness with their Gods.
When Hindus perform and/or listen to the lyrics set to ragaas of songs by people like say Dikshitar and other Carnatic or Hindustani music geniuses, the contents impart a lot of truths about our Gods while the Ragaas allow the Rasikas - those who get wrapped up in the experience, and some of the older generations even enter into a meditative state in their appreciation - to approach our Bhagavan by 'concentrating' and 'meditating' on our Gods in this manner. The music is from and about the Hindu Gods, and its purpose is for the performers' and listeners' entire beings to become attuned to them. (Sadly for the christoterrorist church, the influence of Hindu music and Yoga and Bharatanatyam on the practitioners and viewers/listeners can't be appropriated: the effects lead only to the Hindu Gods. It is solely "in their frequency". Church can only copy outward form, never the meaning nor ever reproduce the effect.)
Anyway, the point was that the purpose and effect of Yoga, Kirtanas, Bharatanatyam etcetera is more than merely stabilising people's minds.
3. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->She has been conditioned to be scared of calling herself a Hindu. (Look at the Racist venomous hatred that pours out of the Western media against Hinduism).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->If one were to suppose she were a Hindu (I doubt it), then her cowardice is no excuse. Other people do not run away from their Mother Religion because of the constant christolying.
Yes christian brainwashing is potent. But is there no responsibility in oneself? It is upto our own individual persons to maintain and value the treasure of Hindu Dharma which we've inherited. There is no excuse for shutting off our own ability to distinguish between truth and falsehood, between investigating for ourselves the truths of our Hindu Dharma versus blindly believing the nonsense that the untrustworthy and motivated of terrorist ideologies try to sell in order to wean us off it.
Can't accept willful stupidity or stupidity that could be prevented by investing a little of one's own effort.
4. <!--QuoteBegin-shamu+Aug 6 2009, 01:08 PM-->QUOTE(shamu @ Aug 6 2009, 01:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->rightly or wrongly, Hinduism is associated with the poverty of India. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Vice versa, christianity is associated with western prosperity. If western economy comes down, becoming a christian will become very uncool.[right][snapback]100149[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That may perhaps be the way one part of India thinks now (the Angelsk-speaking kind in particular), but the majority don't work that way. You are implying most Hindus have no real, meaningful reason to be Hindu. That is a very inaccurate view.
Hindu Dharma is a VERY attractive religion. So very attractive that it is beyond measuring.
Christianism knows full well that Hindu Dharma is incredibly attractive by nature and that left to itself, it would retain Hindus automatically. That is why
1. christianism lies about itself: advertising lies to make the hideous christianism seem better and 'true', even though the facts are that it is a religion of terror founded on lies, and
2. christianism lies about Hindu Dharma: in order to negate and slander this to its primary audience (the adherents, Hindus) to alienate them from it.
- Christianism is succeeding because of such two-way lying. It's because christianism is a con-artist and many people haven't figured out it is all a lie, but have been long conditioned to think jeebus is some divine character and that "all religions are equal" (where, to Hindus, "all religions" includes - besides our own - only christianism, islamism, possibly Buddhism, since many Hindus are unaware of others).
- Christianism is succeeding because - like the Romans (IIRC see Porphyrius for instance) said - it dumbs down its audience to debase them to its own foul level, so that they finally start 'understanding' and swallowing christian nonsense and so that they can't understand Hellenismos or Hindu Dharma (as the case may be) any more, and/or they start imagining christianism is on the same platform as the Natural Traditions.
I don't know anyone who is a Hindu because it is "cool". They are Hindu because they know the truth or profound meaning of the Religion. And THIS is what Hindus should be making those who are merely "born Hindu" aware of. THIS is what will keep Hindus Hindu. Not fickleness, about cool or uncool or other lame reasons. An intimate knowledge of their Hindu Dharma will inculcate an inability to relinquish it or accept the christolies about it.
5.
<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Aug 6 2009, 07:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rajan Zed is a good guy. [...] He is also the first Hindu chaplain to open the U.S. House of Representatives. (Some Xtian nuts shouted him down)[right][snapback]100147[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't know what a Hindu chaplain is. Don't comprehend the purpose behind Hindus opening the US House of Representatives (with invocations) either. What meaning does it have to Hindus? It is not a Hindu practice nor was it a Hindu objective before.
It is an American *christian* interest to want to open the House of Reps with a christian prayer, since they want to claim that "america is a christian country founded on christianism and that in gawd they trust". When in reality it is the Native Americans' country and belongs to their Grand Esprit, and may harbour all those who can live in peace, amity and with respect for them.
Death to traitors.