12-22-2005, 06:50 PM
Sunder ji,
<b>Interesting allegation again. If you are refering to Vivekachudamani Shloka 2, then I do not see evidence for such an allegation, nor do I see Shankaracharya "quite clearly saying" that a male body is required for salvation. can you point me to the appropriate shloka(s) from Vivekachudamani?
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I came to this conclusion from the following 4 verses of Viveka Chudamuni:
<b>For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer then that is Brahmahood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher then that is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and non-Self, Realisation, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman - these come next in order. (This kind of ) mukti (liberation) is not to be attained except through the well-earned merits of a hundred crores of births. (Viveka Chudamani 2)
There are three things which are rare indeed and are due to grace of God - namely a human birth, the longing for liberation, and the protecting care of a perfected sage. (VC 3)
The man who having by some means obtained a human birth, with a male body and mastery of the Vedas to boot, is foolish enough not to exert himself for self-liberation, verily commits suicide, for he kills himself by clinging to things unreal. (VC 4)
What greater fool is there than the man who having obtained a rare human body, and a masculine body too,neglects to achieve the real end of life. (VC 5)</b>
I am actually surprised that you do not see the special position given to male body by Shankara. He even makes the claim that male body is a rarity which is of course NOT true. A human being has an equal chance of being a male or being a female.
Shankara in verse 2, for example, sets up a hierarchy of rarity as follows:
<b>human birth then maleness then Brahmanhood, then Vedic religion then erudition in scriptures then discrimination between self and non-self, then Realization and then identity with Brahman. I am surprised that you do not see the bias in VC for males. </b>
Shankara stresses the importance of being a male in verses 2, 4 and 5. He says quite clearly that a male is foolish not to try for salvation. He is silent on the female of the species. Given this asymmetry what should I conclude?
Gangajal
<b>Interesting allegation again. If you are refering to Vivekachudamani Shloka 2, then I do not see evidence for such an allegation, nor do I see Shankaracharya "quite clearly saying" that a male body is required for salvation. can you point me to the appropriate shloka(s) from Vivekachudamani?
[right][snapback]43626[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
</b>
I came to this conclusion from the following 4 verses of Viveka Chudamuni:
<b>For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer then that is Brahmahood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher then that is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and non-Self, Realisation, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman - these come next in order. (This kind of ) mukti (liberation) is not to be attained except through the well-earned merits of a hundred crores of births. (Viveka Chudamani 2)
There are three things which are rare indeed and are due to grace of God - namely a human birth, the longing for liberation, and the protecting care of a perfected sage. (VC 3)
The man who having by some means obtained a human birth, with a male body and mastery of the Vedas to boot, is foolish enough not to exert himself for self-liberation, verily commits suicide, for he kills himself by clinging to things unreal. (VC 4)
What greater fool is there than the man who having obtained a rare human body, and a masculine body too,neglects to achieve the real end of life. (VC 5)</b>
I am actually surprised that you do not see the special position given to male body by Shankara. He even makes the claim that male body is a rarity which is of course NOT true. A human being has an equal chance of being a male or being a female.
Shankara in verse 2, for example, sets up a hierarchy of rarity as follows:
<b>human birth then maleness then Brahmanhood, then Vedic religion then erudition in scriptures then discrimination between self and non-self, then Realization and then identity with Brahman. I am surprised that you do not see the bias in VC for males. </b>
Shankara stresses the importance of being a male in verses 2, 4 and 5. He says quite clearly that a male is foolish not to try for salvation. He is silent on the female of the species. Given this asymmetry what should I conclude?
Gangajal