Vedanta - Discussion Forum I (introductory))

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, Brahman is ALL but the problem is that we do not see Brahman but only the multiplicity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to rephrase it as "Yes, Brahman is all. Brahman alone 'sees' the multiplicity, we cannot know of a multiplicity without Brahman." (Reminds me of the story from Kenopanishad - Thrutheeya Valli.)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Advaita view on the other hand can not be right when it claims that even Sagun Brahman is sublated. Svetasvatara Upanishad seems to suggest that Brahman is both with and without form and quote 1 describes a Person and not non-dual Brahman.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here, it would be beneficial to take a break and discuss what exactly the GUNA mean in saguna or nirguna. Is Guna the 'attribute' or 'quality' of Brahman?

Here I will post a small definition of Vaisheshika's definition of Gunas.

Kanadha Vaisheshika talks about 16 different padharthas (objects). Of these seven categories of Reality are <b>dravya</b> (substance), <b>guna</b> (quality), <b>karma</b> (action), <b>samanya</b> (generality), <b>visesha</b> (uniqueness), <b>samavaya</b> (inherence) and <b>abhava</b> (non-existence).

Kanadha explains Guna, cannot exist by itself but exists only in a substance. This it cannot, be the constituent or material cause of anything's existence.

[quote]The 24 gunas are rupa (color), rasa (taste), gandha (smell), sparasa (touch), sabda (sound), samkhya (number), parimana (magnitude), prthaktva (distinctiveness), samyoga (conjunction or nearness), buddhi (cognition), saukha (pleasure), dukha (pain), iccha (desire), dvesa (aversion), prayatna (effort), gurutva (heaviness), dravatva (fluidity), sneha (viscidity), samskara (tendency), dharma (orderliness), and adharma (chaos or anomaly).

For the rest of the amazing discussion of Kanadha refer to the link.

Here is a link on it.
http://www.esamskriti.com/html/new_inside....id=123&count1=2



Now, the Gunas (as described above), or the three Gunas (Satva, Rajas, Thamas) can only linger on to a 'substance'. If the Very same Brahman is Saguna, and Nirguna, then it contradicts the nature of Brahman's uniformity. What portion of it is saguna, and what portion is nirguna?

Also, the word 'GUNA-ATHEETHA' becomes meaningless if Brahman is not fully devoid of Gunas.

PS: I have an objection to the word, 'Brahman is Saguna and nirguna at the same time'. For, Brahman is beyond Time and causation, there cannot be a concept of SAME, or TIME. This is known from meditating on it.