Vedanta - Discussion Forum I (introductory))

[gangajal]

<!--QuoteBegin-Sunder+Jan 26 2005, 11:25 AM-->QUOTE(Sunder @ Jan 26 2005, 11:25 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> As far as we know, there is only One Advaita. There cannot be two or ten advaitas. There are different view points, and those who know 'it' speak of it in different terminologies. As I had mentioned earlier, the term Ramakrishna-Advaita confuses me. How can Advaita itself be branded as Muniyandi-Advaita or Iyyanar-Advaita? It does not sound right.

I am fully aware of Thothapuri's interaction with Sri Ramakrishna. I am aware and agree with Sri Ramakrishna's examples of "form and formless" for even the Vishnu Sahasranamam mentions 'Anur Brihad Krusha Sthoola Gunabrin Nirguno Mahaan.' He is atomic, cosmic, subtle, gross, qualified, unqualified, and great.. But here, we maintain that SaGuna is <b>Nirguna seen thru the veil of gunas</b> and Saguna is always for the sake of someone ELSE (i.e. Bhaktha), and thus Saguna is limited, while the Nirguna aspect is Truly independent of time, space, and cause. Hence Sri Lalitha Tripurasundari is called <b>"Ekaakini bhoomaroopA nirdvaitA dvaitavarjita". </b>

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Sundar ji,
1. Ramakrishna's system is indeed recognised by scholars. They call it neo-Vedanta. I do not like it since there is nothing new about Vedanta. So I will call it Ramakrishna system from now on.

2. Nirguna aspect is experienced by a person who has no ego while Saguna aspect is experienced by a person through the ego. Time exists as long as one retains an ego. There is no time when there is no ego. It is like water is formless at certain range of temperature while it is ice at another rnage. Can you claim that water is superior to ice or ice is superior to water? Similarly Saguna Brahman is one aspect while Nirguna Brahman is another aspect of the same reality. Yes, the Advaita experience is considered higher than the dvaita experience because it is very difficult for embodied beings to think of the formless. I give below some Gita quotes to show my point. There are numerous ways to know. Gita 12.5 clearly says that it is difficult for embodied beings to reach the Impersonal Absolute.
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Those I consider as the most perfect in Yoga, who with their minds fixed
intently on Me in steadfast love, worship Me with absolute faith. (Gita 12.2)

Those who are devoted to the Imperishable (the Impersonal Absolute) - who is
the firm support of the world and is also undefinable, unmanifested,
transcendent, motionless, and all-pervading - even they reach me alone,
striving with their senses controlled, and with mind tranquillised and set
on the welfare of all. (Gita 12.3-4)

The obstacles facing those devoted to the Impersonal Absolute are far greater;
for the way of an unclear ideal is difficult for an embodied being to
understand and follow. (Gita 12.5)

But, O son of Prtha, soon will I lift from this ocean of death-bound wordly
existence, those whose minds are ever set on Me - those who abandon to Me
the fruits of all their actions together with the sense of agency thereof,
and who worship Me, meditating on Me as their sole refuge and their only
love. (Gita 12.6-7)

Fix your mind on Me alone; let your reason penetrate into Me; without doubt
you will then abide in Me alone for ever more. (Gita 12.8)

If you are unable to fix your mind steadily on Me (even at the start) then try
to reach Me through the sytematic practice of concentration. (Gita 12.9)

If you are not capable of practising systematic concentration, then devote
yourself wholeheartedly to works service to Me (consisting in external worship
and discharge of duties for My sake). Thus working for Me, man can attain
to perfection. (Gita 12.10)

If even this is difficult for you to perform, then taking refuge in Me
and then controlling the mind, give up the fruits of all your actions
(recognising Me as their agent and enjoyer).(Gita 12.11)

Then (a mere formal) practice of disciplines, a clear understanding (of the
doctrine) is better. Than such understanding, meditation is better. Even
better than meditation is the abandonment of the fruits of action. For such
abandonment (of the fruits of work and sense of their agency) is immediately
followed by peace. (Gita 12.12)

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I will comment on the rest of your post after this.