01-27-2005, 09:58 PM
Sridhar, that is a nice model, and I think it is good to bring up such models to clarify our ideas.
I am trying to understand vishistdvaita here, so sometimes my words may appear 'provocative', but I hope they are harmless.
I would put the following objections to the gold blob model:
The infifnite gold blob and the numerous gold blobs are still 'saguna'. The very fact that you can distinguish them from each other implies they are with attributes or 'saguna'. But an attribute is limiting. In this case the limiting attribute is the spatial extent. One small blob of gold also puts limits on the infinitely large blob. The spatial location where the small blob is, is forbidden for the large blob.
This is quite common. Whenever you have a multiplicity, you also have a distinguishing attribute, the attribute that shows the difference. This distinguishing attribute is also the limiting attribute, it puts limits on each individual.
Although you did mention 'infinite' blob, but this 'infinity' is still limited in spatial extent. It can't cover the space covered by smaller blobs.
In any such model where you have multiplicity existing simultaneously, you have to have limitations on all the individuals making that multiplicity. It doesn't matter how large the largest blob is. As long as there are other blobs, it is limited.
But Narayana and Brahman are not supposed to be limited. Even though it may be tempting to assume that the big-blob can model Narayana, it can't. Narayana is one who connects the whole multitude of the jivas, all the blobs big or small. He is ONE, who somehow is in the heart of all the multiple jivas. He doesn't stand completely apart from any jiva or blob. He is the soul of all the jivas. But he is not simply a collection of the jivas too. He is more than the collection of the jivas. He is an individual in his own right. So naryana can't be modeled as an infinitely large blob.
This is the reason I have been mentioning the philosophical difficulties associated with narayana who is simultaneously existing with the multitude of the jivas, AND who is also the ONE who is in their hearts.
I am trying to understand vishistdvaita here, so sometimes my words may appear 'provocative', but I hope they are harmless.
I would put the following objections to the gold blob model:
The infifnite gold blob and the numerous gold blobs are still 'saguna'. The very fact that you can distinguish them from each other implies they are with attributes or 'saguna'. But an attribute is limiting. In this case the limiting attribute is the spatial extent. One small blob of gold also puts limits on the infinitely large blob. The spatial location where the small blob is, is forbidden for the large blob.
This is quite common. Whenever you have a multiplicity, you also have a distinguishing attribute, the attribute that shows the difference. This distinguishing attribute is also the limiting attribute, it puts limits on each individual.
Although you did mention 'infinite' blob, but this 'infinity' is still limited in spatial extent. It can't cover the space covered by smaller blobs.
In any such model where you have multiplicity existing simultaneously, you have to have limitations on all the individuals making that multiplicity. It doesn't matter how large the largest blob is. As long as there are other blobs, it is limited.
But Narayana and Brahman are not supposed to be limited. Even though it may be tempting to assume that the big-blob can model Narayana, it can't. Narayana is one who connects the whole multitude of the jivas, all the blobs big or small. He is ONE, who somehow is in the heart of all the multiple jivas. He doesn't stand completely apart from any jiva or blob. He is the soul of all the jivas. But he is not simply a collection of the jivas too. He is more than the collection of the jivas. He is an individual in his own right. So naryana can't be modeled as an infinitely large blob.
This is the reason I have been mentioning the philosophical difficulties associated with narayana who is simultaneously existing with the multitude of the jivas, AND who is also the ONE who is in their hearts.