01-29-2005, 03:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I did not understand your remarks about Jiva and Ishwar Aikyam. I thought that in Nirvikalpa Samadhi Jiva goes beyond the domain of Maya. In that stage there is neither Jiva nor Ishwar but only Brahman. So a Jiva just becomes Brahman. How can this state be called Jiva-Ishwar Aikyam when there is no Jiva nor Ishwar in that state?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Baadam, you are correct. I should not have linked nirvikalpa with Saayujyam. But none-the-less, irrespective of the terminology used, there still is a concept of Jeeva-Ishwara aikyam, where leaves it's ego/individual consciousness and merges with the Ishwara. I was answering your question, which is quoted below:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>Brahman reflected in a calm intellect is Sat (Ishwara) <b>then does a human being who has succeeded in calming his intellect or transformed his nature into suddha sattva become Ishwara?</b> The question I am asking is what does this model say about the difference between Ishwara and a Jiva who has transformed his nature into suddha sattva?</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In this context, I was mentioning that the jeeva-ishwara merger is wholesome and is not conditional.
I strongly recommend listening to the two speeches on Jeeva Ishwara Aikyam, where Swami Paramarthananda beautifully explains the same topic we are discussing here so laborously.
Now, coming to Panchadasi:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->These two shlokas are saying that Ishwara is the total reflection of Consciousness on Maya while Jiva is an individualised reflection. Each bliss sheath of Jiva contributes to the formation of Ishwara. It is at this point that I do not understand. The bliss sheath is the seat of human desire. If Ishwara is the sum total of bliss sheaths of Jivas then isn't the Ishwara contaminated by the base desires of Jivas? How can you then claim that Ishwara is not affected by Avidya?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ashok ji has to my satisfaction answered your question on Anandha.
With regards to contamination, I quote the Gita 9:6.
<i>Yatha Akasha stitho nithyam vayu sarvatrago mahaan
Thatha sarvaani bhoothani matsthaani upadhaaraya.</i>
Or 13:33 :
<i>Yatha sarvagatham Saukshmyaad aakasham nopalipyate
sarvatravasthito dehe tathatma nopalipyate.</i>
Thus, contact does not automatically mean contamination. As the jeeva is a reflection on Avidya (which has rajas and thamas components to it) you can see doshas. Ishwara is the reflection on Shuddha Sattva, and hence is dosha-varjitha.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Panchadasi VI.161 says:
In the bliss-sheath inhere all the desires and mental impressions of all living beings. Inasmuch as it knows them all, it is called ominiscient.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before I explain, I shall also post the shlokas from panchadasi that follow your question.
<i>163. Since Ishvara (the consciousness in the bliss-sheath) abides in and activates and controls all the functions of all other sheaths beginning with that of the intellect and elsewhere also in creation, it is called the inner controller.
164. The Shruti says that the Lord abides in the intellect and has the intellect as His body (instrument); but the intellect does not know Him; it is itself controlled by Him.</i>
The Anandamaya kosha is just that, it's a Kosham, or a sheath. It is the Karana-sharira or the causal body. All the iccha shakthi and other impressions HAVE to come from the karana sharira. The impressions in this stage are latent. They do not have the power to bind or liberate. From experience, can you really say that you experience desires in your deep-sleep? Mandukya Upanishad says that Praagya of Sushupti does not have any desires. Ishwara is poorna-kama, he has no desires Himself. Also, as Sri Vidhyaranya says, Ishwara is Antharyami, he controls from Within. To imagine a separate Ishwara sitting in a separate ananda-maya-kosha is not Advaita's stance. It says, it's the Jeeva that imagines these, and not the Ishwara.
Baadam, you are correct. I should not have linked nirvikalpa with Saayujyam. But none-the-less, irrespective of the terminology used, there still is a concept of Jeeva-Ishwara aikyam, where leaves it's ego/individual consciousness and merges with the Ishwara. I was answering your question, which is quoted below:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>Brahman reflected in a calm intellect is Sat (Ishwara) <b>then does a human being who has succeeded in calming his intellect or transformed his nature into suddha sattva become Ishwara?</b> The question I am asking is what does this model say about the difference between Ishwara and a Jiva who has transformed his nature into suddha sattva?</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In this context, I was mentioning that the jeeva-ishwara merger is wholesome and is not conditional.
I strongly recommend listening to the two speeches on Jeeva Ishwara Aikyam, where Swami Paramarthananda beautifully explains the same topic we are discussing here so laborously.
Now, coming to Panchadasi:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->These two shlokas are saying that Ishwara is the total reflection of Consciousness on Maya while Jiva is an individualised reflection. Each bliss sheath of Jiva contributes to the formation of Ishwara. It is at this point that I do not understand. The bliss sheath is the seat of human desire. If Ishwara is the sum total of bliss sheaths of Jivas then isn't the Ishwara contaminated by the base desires of Jivas? How can you then claim that Ishwara is not affected by Avidya?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ashok ji has to my satisfaction answered your question on Anandha.
With regards to contamination, I quote the Gita 9:6.
<i>Yatha Akasha stitho nithyam vayu sarvatrago mahaan
Thatha sarvaani bhoothani matsthaani upadhaaraya.</i>
Or 13:33 :
<i>Yatha sarvagatham Saukshmyaad aakasham nopalipyate
sarvatravasthito dehe tathatma nopalipyate.</i>
Thus, contact does not automatically mean contamination. As the jeeva is a reflection on Avidya (which has rajas and thamas components to it) you can see doshas. Ishwara is the reflection on Shuddha Sattva, and hence is dosha-varjitha.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Panchadasi VI.161 says:
In the bliss-sheath inhere all the desires and mental impressions of all living beings. Inasmuch as it knows them all, it is called ominiscient.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before I explain, I shall also post the shlokas from panchadasi that follow your question.
<i>163. Since Ishvara (the consciousness in the bliss-sheath) abides in and activates and controls all the functions of all other sheaths beginning with that of the intellect and elsewhere also in creation, it is called the inner controller.
164. The Shruti says that the Lord abides in the intellect and has the intellect as His body (instrument); but the intellect does not know Him; it is itself controlled by Him.</i>
The Anandamaya kosha is just that, it's a Kosham, or a sheath. It is the Karana-sharira or the causal body. All the iccha shakthi and other impressions HAVE to come from the karana sharira. The impressions in this stage are latent. They do not have the power to bind or liberate. From experience, can you really say that you experience desires in your deep-sleep? Mandukya Upanishad says that Praagya of Sushupti does not have any desires. Ishwara is poorna-kama, he has no desires Himself. Also, as Sri Vidhyaranya says, Ishwara is Antharyami, he controls from Within. To imagine a separate Ishwara sitting in a separate ananda-maya-kosha is not Advaita's stance. It says, it's the Jeeva that imagines these, and not the Ishwara.