12-30-2009, 02:17 PM
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
corruption is an unrelated issue.[/quote]
Am afraid will have to differ here. I rather see corruption as only a part of the whole process of going down, a proecess that includes much more than just corruption. In fact trying to focus piecemeal on Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Mad, Ghrina, Irshya, Dwesh and Bhaya, leaves me really confused and things begin to gel together when I see all these with respect to the others.
IOW, i do agree Generalia specialibus non derogant and Generalibus specialia derogant. But then this is a principle that find easy application in analytical thought. While I am a synthetic entity, and synthetic thinking is something i am partial towards (mehnati kam aur lalchi jyada hoon na).
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Abrahamic fascists have no respect for other religions other than their own. It is them who introduced the concept of holy war. Look at the sectarian fighting within Christianity and Islam, is that the wonderful culture than needs to be imported? Who is heck is this middle eastern war monger threatening me with hell?[/quote]
Import, hell no. The west (starting from the western borders of India) is so imbalanced, they can never be a solution.
But I am hopeful that you would find merit in my case which goes as follows:
(1) At one point in time or the other, every single religious group and every single follower of every single religious group, has faced this situation - a situation where a misplaced sense of superiority is replaced by a sense of despondency just as soon as the actual results of the actions (rather reactions) taken are nowhere near the expectations.
(2) Also none of these religious groups and none of the followers of these religious groups, have been successful in destroying the chances of a willing man or a willing nation. These Abrahmic nations are no different (Middle East vintage 2009 is a replica of WW-2 era Europe)
(3) I donââ¬â¢t mean to kill/attanuate your concerns (in fact i share them with you). But then we should avoid giving so much mindspace to these issues in the present w.r.t. the Abrahmic cultures. This IMO should be so for people in general and Indians in particular, because of our stronger heritage and the need to focus on much, much larger issues. My desire to allocate lesser mindspace to the Wild wild west has nothing to do with the pseudo secular logic of fear of the unknown.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Muslims get their percentage high enough,[/quote]
(Only and only W.R.T. the arguments that begin like this and with all due respect), now you are making me laugh. You are giving in to fear of the unknown just as much the pseudo seculars, something that is matched only by the logic of the pseudo hindus. I just hope I am not dealing with a pseudo hindu.
Hmmââ¬Â¦..In the larger picture, if muslim invaders could not break India in 1300 years (I mean, ok they broke the state/states of India, but could do squat about the nation, and IMHO nation is a gazzlion^gazzlion times important than the state). Coupled with the very clear logic forwarded I think by the Mr. Naipaul, that these Islamic societies are actually the victims of Obscurantist in their own societies (a view to which I subscribe too).
My take is that you are probably overestimating the Jihadists and the White folk, and clearly underestimating Indians. People who cannot protect there own _ _ _, how will they ever succeed in doing anything.
OK even if in the smaller picture, your concern is restricted in scope to just the prevention of terrorist attacks, I would say that having to bear these terrorist attacks is the inherrent part of the building up of a state, nobody who wishes to build up a strong state can ever hope to slide the easy road. And to preempt, any possible spin, I am entirely in favour of sharpening the proactive measures to prevent and disrupt these attacks.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
India will become like Pakistan, where Islamo terrorists are blowing up even Mosques.
Christo terrorists are waging a terror war in North east India now spreading to Orrisa & central India.
The spineless pseudo secular Congress losers delibrately prevented the industrialization of India for 4 decades. That kind of weakling culture should not be followed, it has resulted in a steady rise in the Muslim percentage.
[/quote]
The only time India will end up like Pakistan of today or like the China of Mao or like the Europeans of Pre-WW2 years would be when, Indians begin to work on the same process in the same godforsaken kind of way. And even if one gets true the other never will. So basically no chance of India ever becoming Pakistan etc.
A lot of Hindus have grown too inwardlooking. A thousand cuts will do squat to this country (hmmm. Except when done all at once and that too when increased in some unpredictably exponential manner ââ¬â something that our competition is in no position to do). And this backfootplay is preventing the fours and sixes off the Abrahmic bowling attack. If we Indians keep focusing too much on what to avoid, we will never make time enough to progress in our choosen direction. A progress that is both urgent and important.
corruption is an unrelated issue.[/quote]
Am afraid will have to differ here. I rather see corruption as only a part of the whole process of going down, a proecess that includes much more than just corruption. In fact trying to focus piecemeal on Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Mad, Ghrina, Irshya, Dwesh and Bhaya, leaves me really confused and things begin to gel together when I see all these with respect to the others.
IOW, i do agree Generalia specialibus non derogant and Generalibus specialia derogant. But then this is a principle that find easy application in analytical thought. While I am a synthetic entity, and synthetic thinking is something i am partial towards (mehnati kam aur lalchi jyada hoon na).
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Abrahamic fascists have no respect for other religions other than their own. It is them who introduced the concept of holy war. Look at the sectarian fighting within Christianity and Islam, is that the wonderful culture than needs to be imported? Who is heck is this middle eastern war monger threatening me with hell?[/quote]
Import, hell no. The west (starting from the western borders of India) is so imbalanced, they can never be a solution.
But I am hopeful that you would find merit in my case which goes as follows:
(1) At one point in time or the other, every single religious group and every single follower of every single religious group, has faced this situation - a situation where a misplaced sense of superiority is replaced by a sense of despondency just as soon as the actual results of the actions (rather reactions) taken are nowhere near the expectations.
(2) Also none of these religious groups and none of the followers of these religious groups, have been successful in destroying the chances of a willing man or a willing nation. These Abrahmic nations are no different (Middle East vintage 2009 is a replica of WW-2 era Europe)
(3) I donââ¬â¢t mean to kill/attanuate your concerns (in fact i share them with you). But then we should avoid giving so much mindspace to these issues in the present w.r.t. the Abrahmic cultures. This IMO should be so for people in general and Indians in particular, because of our stronger heritage and the need to focus on much, much larger issues. My desire to allocate lesser mindspace to the Wild wild west has nothing to do with the pseudo secular logic of fear of the unknown.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
Muslims get their percentage high enough,[/quote]
(Only and only W.R.T. the arguments that begin like this and with all due respect), now you are making me laugh. You are giving in to fear of the unknown just as much the pseudo seculars, something that is matched only by the logic of the pseudo hindus. I just hope I am not dealing with a pseudo hindu.
Hmmââ¬Â¦..In the larger picture, if muslim invaders could not break India in 1300 years (I mean, ok they broke the state/states of India, but could do squat about the nation, and IMHO nation is a gazzlion^gazzlion times important than the state). Coupled with the very clear logic forwarded I think by the Mr. Naipaul, that these Islamic societies are actually the victims of Obscurantist in their own societies (a view to which I subscribe too).
My take is that you are probably overestimating the Jihadists and the White folk, and clearly underestimating Indians. People who cannot protect there own _ _ _, how will they ever succeed in doing anything.
OK even if in the smaller picture, your concern is restricted in scope to just the prevention of terrorist attacks, I would say that having to bear these terrorist attacks is the inherrent part of the building up of a state, nobody who wishes to build up a strong state can ever hope to slide the easy road. And to preempt, any possible spin, I am entirely in favour of sharpening the proactive measures to prevent and disrupt these attacks.
[quote name='agnivayu' date='25 December 2009 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1261699339' post='103122']
India will become like Pakistan, where Islamo terrorists are blowing up even Mosques.
Christo terrorists are waging a terror war in North east India now spreading to Orrisa & central India.
The spineless pseudo secular Congress losers delibrately prevented the industrialization of India for 4 decades. That kind of weakling culture should not be followed, it has resulted in a steady rise in the Muslim percentage.
[/quote]
The only time India will end up like Pakistan of today or like the China of Mao or like the Europeans of Pre-WW2 years would be when, Indians begin to work on the same process in the same godforsaken kind of way. And even if one gets true the other never will. So basically no chance of India ever becoming Pakistan etc.
A lot of Hindus have grown too inwardlooking. A thousand cuts will do squat to this country (hmmm. Except when done all at once and that too when increased in some unpredictably exponential manner ââ¬â something that our competition is in no position to do). And this backfootplay is preventing the fours and sixes off the Abrahmic bowling attack. If we Indians keep focusing too much on what to avoid, we will never make time enough to progress in our choosen direction. A progress that is both urgent and important.