Vedanta - Discussion Forum I (introductory))

[gangajal]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ashok Kumar+Jan 29 2005, 06:47 AM-->QUOTE(Ashok Kumar @ Jan 29 2005, 06:47 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> I have some questions ( hopefully not too provocative <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )

All the jivas are supposed to have these five koshas (or 3 bodies) that belong completely to them.  So all the way to anandamaya-kosha, the 'light' or knowledge has progressively increased, but 'separation' hasn't ended.  But in one fell step, from anandamaya-kosha to Ishvara, the multiplicity of all the jivas suddenly gets connected to one single Ishvara.

But aren't there supposed to be many kinds of beings, like devas, asuras, etc. in this vast universe.  Are all of them supposed to be constructed according to the same sheath plan? Does the point of merger for them  also lie just beyond the anandamaya-kosha?

Do all beings possess all the koshas? Does an ant have an anandamaya kosha?  Does an amoeba? 

If lets say, an amoeba doesn't possess some higher kosha such as anandamaya, vijnanamaya and manomaya. Then where does merger take place for an amoeba?  At some level just beyond pranamaya?  Do amoebas have an amoeba-Ishvara at the level of manomaya where they merge?

Do human beings with the five koshas eventually merge into a Ishvara specifically meant for humans? (nArAyana = whose abode is in humans or nara).

Would other type of beings with different kosha structures merge into their own kind of Ishvara?

I am a bit uncomfortable with the single point merger implied for all the beings in the whole of the universe.  A progressive merger into higher and higher Ishvaras sounds more appealing. 

<b>If merger can at all happen, then why can't it happen at many levels?  Why does it have to happen at one highest level?  Remember that Ishvara is not nirguna brahman.  He is saguna.  So if a merger can happen at a saguna level, why can't it happen at other lower saguna levels? </b>

I am thinking again of the upside down ashvattha tree model where the root is the brahman, and branches other beings.  There is no single point from where all the branches simultaneously branch out.  But branching is rather gradual, like a tree.

For example shaivism defines a whole series of shivas leading upto the paramashiva. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ashok Kumar,
These are my answers to yuour questions:

1. The consciousness that is projected onto the anandamaya kosha or the very FIRST covering of the Atman is a subset of Ishwara's consciousness. The consciousness that is projected onto the other koshas activate the mind and physical body of the being to whom these koshas belong. It is at the level of the mind and body that all beings differ from each other and are affected by Karma and hence the other Koshas can not be part of Ishwara. If the other koshas also form part of Ishwara then Ishwara will be affected by Karma of the Jivas.

2. No one can give you an authoritative answer to your question regarding devas (indra etc) or asuras. However, it would seem reasonable that any being will have to be a sum of the Atman and coverings. If there is no covering or kosha then those beings will all become mukta which is unlikely. So I would think that the Koshas would be there.

3. I think all beings must have koshas since without Koshas they will be pure Atman and be free.
I read somewhere that at least one Upanishad gives the location of the chakras of birds. I would think, however, that non-human creatures (lower than humans) will probably not have the Vijnanamaya kosha (intellectual sheath) , at least not as human have it. This is because non-human beings are not as intelligent as humans.

4.Ishwara is the sum total of ALL consciousness. Hence there is no Ishwara for only human being. Remember that Ishwara is defined as the sum of the consciousness that is projected on the first covering of the Atman. Since all beings must have their Atman covered, there has to be a common Ishwara.

5. It is not possible for any being to merge into Ishwara since Ishwara is merely the consciousness projected on to the first covering of Atman. Other beings (higher than human beings) might well be able to merge with the Atman itself. I think there is a discussion about this in Brahma Sutra Bhasya. Normally it is thought that only human beings can merge with the Atman. Lower beings can not because their intellect is not well developed. "Gods" like Indra can not because their lives in lower heaven are too good for them to meditate.

I will give the rest of mya answer later.