05-05-2010, 06:04 AM
ramana wrote:
Muhammad's mission was to revive the old control of the known world(goal of the Middle East orders) mission that the Church forgot once the Roman Emperor converted. Their logic was why bother controlling the world, when the Roman Emperor serves the Church and thru him they can control the world. In other words the Church became Europeanized(Greco-Roman)from its Near Eastern roots.
What Muhammad saw was that the original mission focus was lost and created a new order(Islam) to return to direct control. This mission focus is still with the Sunni-Wahabi Islamists. Its this return to core mission(periodic reset)
which energizes the periodical revival of Islam.
The Reformation and Enlightenment have
cut off this return to core mission for Christianity. This is what is causing the angst in Western societies the transplanting of Near Eastern core valsues on freedom loving individualistic people. The whole saga of Reformation->Enlightenment-> Positivism->Modernism->post-Modernism are ways to throw away this blanket of NE Core values and return to 'pagan' roots.
We see this periodic reset in the X-tian cults that spawn in America - Baptists, etc.
This is what makes the fundoo West have a soft corner for the Sunni-Wahabis.
Ramana ji,
I do not think Christianity existed as a Socio-political ideology (akin to Islam OR modern Church) until few decades prior to conversion of Constantine. Hence, the loss of focus by early christians, seem to be a far-fetched assumption (IMHO). Western Christianity (Catholic Church and later ramifications which happened to the west of Danube River Basin) is political successor of Western Roman Empire. The Christianity was altered to suit the political objectives of Rome, and not vice-versa.
Out of three religions, Islam indeed is the most perfected and "civilized" religion. The geopolitical objective of people from Tigris-Euphrates basin and Mediterranean sea is to act as "middle-men" between East and West. The only other powers which controlled this region are Persians and Romans (eastern romans with support of west). Both of these powers are alien to the Tigris-Jordan Doab.
For some years prior to Islam, the control of Western Empire on this region had vanished and the empire was formally divided. The eastern empire and the churches it produced (Greek, Russian, Syrian, Armenian, Georgian etc) have no sympathies of any Islam, Shia or Sunni. However, neither they had balls to snatch the region away from Islamic control. Islam was backed up by skilled manpower from central asia (Turks), whereas the population dynamics of natives of anatolia and Canaan was static. It was only after massive invasion from west (first crusade) that the region came under "western dominion" for 100 years before loosing it to Saladin.
The geopolitical "need" of western Europe to be in touch with Asia (India and China) is so huge that they can pay any price to keep their contact robust.
Hence, when we look at Muhammad as a policy-maker, his primary need was to consolidate the region between Tigris-Euphrates and Jordan river (including arabian peninsula). This was never the need of Jews nor was it the need of Christians simply because their socio-political character is smaller than that of Islam. Hence, Muhammad accommodated all those people in this region as "Ahl-e-Kitab" (People of Book). he was immensely lucky because Persians and Byzantines were exhausted after fighting each other. For Tigris-Jordan Doab region, both Anatolia and Persia are adversaries. For latter two, this region is the pivot.
As of the west's soft-corner for Sunni Islam, it has more to do with victory in world-war-1 and subsequent sell-out of Sunni elite to western interests. If something like Iran happens in Tigris-Jordan doab, all the bonhomie between fundoo west and Sunni Islam will vanish and next crusades will be called upon.
When India manages to unify itself and Persia is Deislamized (or total and fundamental disconnect from Sunni-wahabi type of Islam) I won't mind Islam controlling region between Tigris and . West's control over that region has been more detrimental to India than Islam's control. Check the timeline. Ever since "West" lost control over anatolia, syria and levant, coincides with Yashodharma's final defeat of White-Hunas. Ever since then, up to 1200's, India was free from any foreign invasions. The arabs were defeated conclusively and thrown out (even out of sindh which was ruled by Sumra Rajputs).
West's occupation of jerusalem in first crusade coincides with Ghurid invasions on India. From later 1500s when Byzantium was conquered by Turks, India too witnessed a stable geopolitical environment free from any central asian invasion (partly because invaders themselves were settled firmly in North India and did not give scope for any other foreign entity to make inroads). The reasons for these coincidental occurrences could be effect of "pax-islamica" on central and western asia which causes the tribes to move en masse for a cause (of islam in danger). Or climatic changes (as brihaspati ji pointed out). could be both.
Jews have suffered more under Christian occupation than under Islamic one. Hence, if modern state of Israel enters into a regional peace-keeping alliance with other powers of this region without influence of the west, this will tremendously contribute towards world-peace. It is necessary for Israel to form such alliance before the post WW2 baby-boomer generation dies out. After the newer generations take over the administration of the "west" the sympathy which Israel and Jews have will start diminishing exponentially.
Muhammad's mission was to revive the old control of the known world(goal of the Middle East orders) mission that the Church forgot once the Roman Emperor converted. Their logic was why bother controlling the world, when the Roman Emperor serves the Church and thru him they can control the world. In other words the Church became Europeanized(Greco-Roman)from its Near Eastern roots.
What Muhammad saw was that the original mission focus was lost and created a new order(Islam) to return to direct control. This mission focus is still with the Sunni-Wahabi Islamists. Its this return to core mission(periodic reset)
which energizes the periodical revival of Islam.
The Reformation and Enlightenment have
cut off this return to core mission for Christianity. This is what is causing the angst in Western societies the transplanting of Near Eastern core valsues on freedom loving individualistic people. The whole saga of Reformation->Enlightenment-> Positivism->Modernism->post-Modernism are ways to throw away this blanket of NE Core values and return to 'pagan' roots.
We see this periodic reset in the X-tian cults that spawn in America - Baptists, etc.
This is what makes the fundoo West have a soft corner for the Sunni-Wahabis.
Ramana ji,
I do not think Christianity existed as a Socio-political ideology (akin to Islam OR modern Church) until few decades prior to conversion of Constantine. Hence, the loss of focus by early christians, seem to be a far-fetched assumption (IMHO). Western Christianity (Catholic Church and later ramifications which happened to the west of Danube River Basin) is political successor of Western Roman Empire. The Christianity was altered to suit the political objectives of Rome, and not vice-versa.
Out of three religions, Islam indeed is the most perfected and "civilized" religion. The geopolitical objective of people from Tigris-Euphrates basin and Mediterranean sea is to act as "middle-men" between East and West. The only other powers which controlled this region are Persians and Romans (eastern romans with support of west). Both of these powers are alien to the Tigris-Jordan Doab.
For some years prior to Islam, the control of Western Empire on this region had vanished and the empire was formally divided. The eastern empire and the churches it produced (Greek, Russian, Syrian, Armenian, Georgian etc) have no sympathies of any Islam, Shia or Sunni. However, neither they had balls to snatch the region away from Islamic control. Islam was backed up by skilled manpower from central asia (Turks), whereas the population dynamics of natives of anatolia and Canaan was static. It was only after massive invasion from west (first crusade) that the region came under "western dominion" for 100 years before loosing it to Saladin.
The geopolitical "need" of western Europe to be in touch with Asia (India and China) is so huge that they can pay any price to keep their contact robust.
Hence, when we look at Muhammad as a policy-maker, his primary need was to consolidate the region between Tigris-Euphrates and Jordan river (including arabian peninsula). This was never the need of Jews nor was it the need of Christians simply because their socio-political character is smaller than that of Islam. Hence, Muhammad accommodated all those people in this region as "Ahl-e-Kitab" (People of Book). he was immensely lucky because Persians and Byzantines were exhausted after fighting each other. For Tigris-Jordan Doab region, both Anatolia and Persia are adversaries. For latter two, this region is the pivot.
As of the west's soft-corner for Sunni Islam, it has more to do with victory in world-war-1 and subsequent sell-out of Sunni elite to western interests. If something like Iran happens in Tigris-Jordan doab, all the bonhomie between fundoo west and Sunni Islam will vanish and next crusades will be called upon.
When India manages to unify itself and Persia is Deislamized (or total and fundamental disconnect from Sunni-wahabi type of Islam) I won't mind Islam controlling region between Tigris and . West's control over that region has been more detrimental to India than Islam's control. Check the timeline. Ever since "West" lost control over anatolia, syria and levant, coincides with Yashodharma's final defeat of White-Hunas. Ever since then, up to 1200's, India was free from any foreign invasions. The arabs were defeated conclusively and thrown out (even out of sindh which was ruled by Sumra Rajputs).
West's occupation of jerusalem in first crusade coincides with Ghurid invasions on India. From later 1500s when Byzantium was conquered by Turks, India too witnessed a stable geopolitical environment free from any central asian invasion (partly because invaders themselves were settled firmly in North India and did not give scope for any other foreign entity to make inroads). The reasons for these coincidental occurrences could be effect of "pax-islamica" on central and western asia which causes the tribes to move en masse for a cause (of islam in danger). Or climatic changes (as brihaspati ji pointed out). could be both.
Jews have suffered more under Christian occupation than under Islamic one. Hence, if modern state of Israel enters into a regional peace-keeping alliance with other powers of this region without influence of the west, this will tremendously contribute towards world-peace. It is necessary for Israel to form such alliance before the post WW2 baby-boomer generation dies out. After the newer generations take over the administration of the "west" the sympathy which Israel and Jews have will start diminishing exponentially.