On the topic of Lalitaditya's 182 and related:
Post 1/2
One can argue for Indian cinema and TV (incl ads) being representative of its native population without knocking other people.
- Many pro-Indian Indians of younger generations are starting to confuse skin-colour with identity. It was never *Indians* identity. (Don't make it so, because it's *intended* to be a replacement identity.) And colour is not Indians view on the world. It is a *late* invention in the west: invention of christianism, turned into spin-off.
- The opposite is true too: many Indians want to "forget colour" by which they don't mean colour, they mean they have forgotten/relinquished their actual identity (which was never colour anyway) and want to be an "international citizen". Concepts like "a citizen of the world" - pretty as it sounds - does not exist yet and humanity is a *very* long way from it.
Both cases are the results of confusion of and loss of identity.
To the main point: The problem works both ways these days. E.g.
1) Why is an Indo-Portuguese christian (a woman from SlumMovie it seems) cast as what's apparently a Greek character in the upcoming hollywood movie on Theseus? Did the (presumably Indian-origin) director cast her? Poor Greeks, never allowed to play themselves: first sidelined by British and other Germanic people playing them, all while they're not even allowed to protest "but they're not Greeks". And now there's a somewhat-Indian - looks even less Greek - playing some Greek character.
On the web you can see various Europeans - in many languages - trying to patiently explain that while this is obviously another hollywoodism, that "No, Indians *don't* look Greek". But secular Indians eager to play international citizen apparently can't tell the difference between Mediterranean people and Indian people and argue that it's all actually plausible. Usually they imagine Indians look "South American" and "therefore" can pass as "Mediterranean". The western side tends to argue that Greeks are actually "European" (too few Greek voices ever represent themselves, everyone else always seems to talk on their behalf - or maybe Greeks just got used by now to being tossed aside from matters concerning their own ethnicity).
Personally, I find Greeks look Greek and not Dutch or English etc, but they certainly don't look Indian. And while the western argument tends to be on the fundamental mismatch being the skin-colour ("she can pass for a gypsy" is the best they can say for the Indo-Portuguese christian, but then, Europe's Roma tend to be christians anyway), I think that beyond skin-colour lies an even more fundamental difference: facial features. As far as my experience goes, Indians of whatever colour don't look Greek. The person who comes closest that I can think of is the very lovely Pooja Batra, and even she can pass for Iranian at most IMO (though I happen to think Batra looks Indian more than anything else).
And of those multi-ethnic people who have any bit of Indian ancestry, the only female that comes to mind that actually looks European is the Irishwoman Rhona Mitra, but she's only a quarter Indian anyway and looks fully European. Still, can't see her quite as a Greek (perhaps I'm used to her being Irish).
Oh but of course one will see the whining and whinging continue in English at imdb. 10 threads long apparently:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/board/
And just by glancing over a page, I see that the secular Indian side - arguing against all sense for the most meaningless of prizes - has descended into gross foulmouthedness. Gives new meaning to "desperate wannabes".
And these are the next generations of visible Indians.
But can you imagine *Hindus* or other Dharmics in the least wanting let alone needing Indians - forget Indian christians - playing Hellenistic characters? Who wouldn't rather see beautiful heathen Greeks playing out their own ancestral narratives. They have enough beautiful men and women, why do we keep seeing *everyone else* playing the Greeks? Oh that's right, because it's hollywood.
Hmmm. I have a nice idea actually. The Indian director could have opted to keep himself and his Indian cheerleading crowd happy with a nice compromise: by casting that Greek singer in India (the one who's apparently sung in multiple Indian languages - though anyone can sing/squeak decently accurately in multiple unknown languages, all you need is a feel for sounds of human speech). And as today's Indian actors can't act anyway - unless they're all *meant* to be channeling wood all the time - her singing ability will set her one up versus her competition. (And while I haven't seen the Indian christian cast in the Theseus film act, from her picture she seems to me to be a poor and insipid-looking variant of the Haitian - of African? origin - actress Meta Golding.)
Time to find the Greek chanteuse. Don't know her, but do know of the Greek musician who is said to have collaborated with her once. Ogenblikje. No, I was wrong: She's Greek AND Iranian apparently. Either way, her being part Greek may satisfy the Greeks and the west, and her being a bit Iranian may quickly put the Indian fan brigade at ease. Look for occurrences of "west", "Greek" + context at the link. Or I'll do it:
http://www.rediff.com/chat/anadcht2.htm
And that word "Eurasian" again, ugh. (The west had been trying to socially engineer "Eurasian" as "the new face of Asia" in the early 2000s - as if all of Asia cares to look part European or aims to produce part-European offspring. Maybe - just maybe - the various "Asian" peoples like looking like their ancestors).
There have been times when non-Greeks playing characters from Hellenismos weren't displeasing. Of the two instances I've seen where Orpheus was played by an ... unanticipated choice of actors (though Orpheus has famously been played by others before), the first was a distracting choice (British Pakistani) who ruined the otherwise excellent program he was in for me and which part should have been played by a Greek. The second appeared in a generally unremarkable American mini about Jason, where Orpheus was played by that attractive African man from the UK who also appeared in a British series about sleek con-artists in early/mid 2000s. (I can't recall his name, but it was the mini featuring many UK actors including IIRC the E-European wife of Senthil "Ultimate Force" Ramamoorti in the role of Atlanta.) While Orpheus had little enough to do in the large cast (but looked good doing it anyway), the standout was the famous and beautiful sci-fi actress of Irish ancestry playing the female lead - with the best part being where Eros hits her heart with a flaming arrow and her cool eyes grow large and intent thereafter whenever she gazed at the hero (Jason). It could so easily have gone to cheese - as it would have in the hands of others - but then, she does that sort of understated yet unmistakable thing very well. Two thumbs I mean Four Paws Up (for the 10 or so mins of good TV in the entire thing).
Anyway. Topic was: ethnic Indians demanding to play roles meant for various European populations. Another example in the next post.
Post 1/2
One can argue for Indian cinema and TV (incl ads) being representative of its native population without knocking other people.
- Many pro-Indian Indians of younger generations are starting to confuse skin-colour with identity. It was never *Indians* identity. (Don't make it so, because it's *intended* to be a replacement identity.) And colour is not Indians view on the world. It is a *late* invention in the west: invention of christianism, turned into spin-off.
- The opposite is true too: many Indians want to "forget colour" by which they don't mean colour, they mean they have forgotten/relinquished their actual identity (which was never colour anyway) and want to be an "international citizen". Concepts like "a citizen of the world" - pretty as it sounds - does not exist yet and humanity is a *very* long way from it.
Both cases are the results of confusion of and loss of identity.
To the main point: The problem works both ways these days. E.g.
1) Why is an Indo-Portuguese christian (a woman from SlumMovie it seems) cast as what's apparently a Greek character in the upcoming hollywood movie on Theseus? Did the (presumably Indian-origin) director cast her? Poor Greeks, never allowed to play themselves: first sidelined by British and other Germanic people playing them, all while they're not even allowed to protest "but they're not Greeks". And now there's a somewhat-Indian - looks even less Greek - playing some Greek character.
On the web you can see various Europeans - in many languages - trying to patiently explain that while this is obviously another hollywoodism, that "No, Indians *don't* look Greek". But secular Indians eager to play international citizen apparently can't tell the difference between Mediterranean people and Indian people and argue that it's all actually plausible. Usually they imagine Indians look "South American" and "therefore" can pass as "Mediterranean". The western side tends to argue that Greeks are actually "European" (too few Greek voices ever represent themselves, everyone else always seems to talk on their behalf - or maybe Greeks just got used by now to being tossed aside from matters concerning their own ethnicity).
Personally, I find Greeks look Greek and not Dutch or English etc, but they certainly don't look Indian. And while the western argument tends to be on the fundamental mismatch being the skin-colour ("she can pass for a gypsy" is the best they can say for the Indo-Portuguese christian, but then, Europe's Roma tend to be christians anyway), I think that beyond skin-colour lies an even more fundamental difference: facial features. As far as my experience goes, Indians of whatever colour don't look Greek. The person who comes closest that I can think of is the very lovely Pooja Batra, and even she can pass for Iranian at most IMO (though I happen to think Batra looks Indian more than anything else).
And of those multi-ethnic people who have any bit of Indian ancestry, the only female that comes to mind that actually looks European is the Irishwoman Rhona Mitra, but she's only a quarter Indian anyway and looks fully European. Still, can't see her quite as a Greek (perhaps I'm used to her being Irish).
Oh but of course one will see the whining and whinging continue in English at imdb. 10 threads long apparently:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1253864/board/
Quote:Freida Pinto as Phaedra
And just by glancing over a page, I see that the secular Indian side - arguing against all sense for the most meaningless of prizes - has descended into gross foulmouthedness. Gives new meaning to "desperate wannabes".
And these are the next generations of visible Indians.
But can you imagine *Hindus* or other Dharmics in the least wanting let alone needing Indians - forget Indian christians - playing Hellenistic characters? Who wouldn't rather see beautiful heathen Greeks playing out their own ancestral narratives. They have enough beautiful men and women, why do we keep seeing *everyone else* playing the Greeks? Oh that's right, because it's hollywood.
Hmmm. I have a nice idea actually. The Indian director could have opted to keep himself and his Indian cheerleading crowd happy with a nice compromise: by casting that Greek singer in India (the one who's apparently sung in multiple Indian languages - though anyone can sing/squeak decently accurately in multiple unknown languages, all you need is a feel for sounds of human speech). And as today's Indian actors can't act anyway - unless they're all *meant* to be channeling wood all the time - her singing ability will set her one up versus her competition. (And while I haven't seen the Indian christian cast in the Theseus film act, from her picture she seems to me to be a poor and insipid-looking variant of the Haitian - of African? origin - actress Meta Golding.)
Time to find the Greek chanteuse. Don't know her, but do know of the Greek musician who is said to have collaborated with her once. Ogenblikje. No, I was wrong: She's Greek AND Iranian apparently. Either way, her being part Greek may satisfy the Greeks and the west, and her being a bit Iranian may quickly put the Indian fan brigade at ease. Look for occurrences of "west", "Greek" + context at the link. Or I'll do it:
http://www.rediff.com/chat/anadcht2.htm
Quote:Sandeep Chandel (Wed Aug 21 20:08:50 1996 IST):Oh enough. Even Ctrl-F can't jump through this whinge binge fast enough.
Nice name!! What does it mean?
Anaida (Wed Aug 21 20:21:37 1996 IST):
Anaida is a greek mythological character who had beauty and brains (with no claim on my side).
Anaida (Wed Aug 21 20:48:08 1996 IST):
Snap: I'm Eurasian -- Greek- Persian mix.
SNAP (Wed Aug 21 20:50:45 1996 IST):
Wow.. you sound exotic.. So tell me why does our videos have so much of western touch to it.. our songs aren't you know...
Anaida (Wed Aug 21 20:52:08 1996 IST):
Snap: MAybe because I'm a westerner?
Nel (Wed Aug 21 21:09:19 1996 IST):
Anaida: I don't know any of the songs that u have sung, nor do I follow th pop music scene in India, so what am I doing here..well just dropped in, so Hi and good luck. Tell me what does your name mean?..is it a Bengali name..i think it is nice.
Anaida (Wed Aug 21 21:11:45 1996 IST):
Nel: A greeek godess with beauty and brains but no claims.
Sudhir (Wed Aug 21 21:16:20 1996 IST):
A greek Goddess?..sounds interesting..so r u into pagan rituals?..do u think I can join u?
(Pagan what?
It's so cute: Secular, angelsk-speaking Indians trying to do "paganism". You know, "paganism" :roll:
Sounds like a sneak peak into Indians' future. The christo-conditioned West part II: more alien than the aliens.)
Anaida (Wed Aug 21 21:20:37 1996 IST):
Sudhir: I'm not into rituals .
(Maybe it was the dude's threat to dabble in her ancestors' "pagan rituals" that put her off?)
And that word "Eurasian" again, ugh. (The west had been trying to socially engineer "Eurasian" as "the new face of Asia" in the early 2000s - as if all of Asia cares to look part European or aims to produce part-European offspring. Maybe - just maybe - the various "Asian" peoples like looking like their ancestors).
There have been times when non-Greeks playing characters from Hellenismos weren't displeasing. Of the two instances I've seen where Orpheus was played by an ... unanticipated choice of actors (though Orpheus has famously been played by others before), the first was a distracting choice (British Pakistani) who ruined the otherwise excellent program he was in for me and which part should have been played by a Greek. The second appeared in a generally unremarkable American mini about Jason, where Orpheus was played by that attractive African man from the UK who also appeared in a British series about sleek con-artists in early/mid 2000s. (I can't recall his name, but it was the mini featuring many UK actors including IIRC the E-European wife of Senthil "Ultimate Force" Ramamoorti in the role of Atlanta.) While Orpheus had little enough to do in the large cast (but looked good doing it anyway), the standout was the famous and beautiful sci-fi actress of Irish ancestry playing the female lead - with the best part being where Eros hits her heart with a flaming arrow and her cool eyes grow large and intent thereafter whenever she gazed at the hero (Jason). It could so easily have gone to cheese - as it would have in the hands of others - but then, she does that sort of understated yet unmistakable thing very well. Two thumbs I mean Four Paws Up (for the 10 or so mins of good TV in the entire thing).
Anyway. Topic was: ethnic Indians demanding to play roles meant for various European populations. Another example in the next post.