Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 6

[Husky]

4/4



Some further comments from the link again.

DisgustedMerrimack NH



..One unkind but accurate quip among Catholics is that they now end up with the bigots from the Episcopalian church. Groan.



A friend's New York Catholic parish had an Episcopalian transplant who turned out to be a disaster. He embodied the worst of the old Catholic mentality that meant the priest was a cut above, and should be in complete charge of parish affairs. Keep your lay opinions to yourself.



Remember as well those going the other way. Episcopal Canon Charles Robertson is right. I know of one Episcopalian church that had so many converts from Catholicism, they started a special support group for them.



Many Catholics are leaving in disgust and disagreement over Catholic positions on contraception and women priests. A huge majority of Catholics already support and practice artificial birth control, and I believe a majority of Catholics also support women priests.



There is no going back, folks, despite the current papacy's penchant for the triumphal days of yore.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.5

..craneCA



..As a practicing Catholic, I welcome this historic shift. I have heard the complaint that the Vatican pulled off a ‘theft’ but I disagree. No one is forced into this decision and certainly these experienced clergy have the wherewithal to discern their own path.



Although the constraint is that married clergy are an exemption and unmarried

clergy will remain so, I can’t help but feel the whole thing will be an experiment

with priests who have marital ties. Change must begin somewhere. Many in The Catholic church believe priests should be allowed to marry. Having friends who are pastors of protestant churches, however I do see how incredibly difficult it is to shepherd a congregation and a growing family. More will be revealed. For now, I think it’s an opportunity for a great deal of dialogue. With the Archbishop of Canterbury lambasting secular Britain from the pulpit, it seems all manner of new things are afoot.



I’m sure Henry the VIII is rolling in his grave but for me, I just say: Amen!

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.8

..Lawrence [color="#0000FF"]kampala,uganda[/color]

[color="#800080"](A Ugandan in the Anglican debate. Of course. I forgot how touchy converted Africa - IIRC even India - was about the issues behind the internal bickering I mean dissent in the Anglican church.)[/color]



..Mr.Ted Morgan,

Don`t be confused over that because the Spirit of God is working among it`s people.

So,you should expect so many people to leave their denominations joining the only catholic and Apostolic church.

Those who wish to join,don`t think they do it on their own.

The Catholic church in built on a rock as Jesus said to St.Peter.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.4

..jbmidwifeColoradao



..The "schism" isn't really so very big, the Anglican Church has survived worse - and the excuse of gay clergy is a smokescreen for the real misogyny at work. The "schism" in the Anglican Church is because the Bishop of the United States is a woman.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.2



[...]

..Jason D'Haviland FirestoneRancho Santa Fe, CA



..The fact is, that the actual demographic trend in US Episcopal communities, is that most are 50-70 % comprised of ex-Catholics, and ex-Lutherans. So if a few go in the other direction, it in no way would even begin to approach the movement away from the Roman Church. I found it humorous that the parish in Maryland was voting to leave the Episcopal Church, and join the Romans, as indeed it was the LAST time they will ever be voting on anything. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Exactly

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.7





[...]

..marthasmarythis world



..The great irony? The Episcopal church is long the refuge for Romans seeking a haven from the Roman (catholic-- but we are all catholic) corruption and usurpation. "All of the catholic, none of the guilt."



We are saddened at the "loss" of the children who prefer corruption, but we know they will be accountable for their choice. Anyone who feels that the Roman interpretation of the God's word may be questionable, give the ECUSA a try. There you will find the Jesus you were taught about -- not the one the Vatican wants you to perceive now. Pope John the 23rd was right -- and he was a martyr for it. Come home when you are ready.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.2

..ambrosebutler pa.



..This is not that unusual. For years Lutheran clergy have swiched to the Catholic Church as married men and a branch of the Eastern Orthodox church with married priests, have been joined with Rome for a very long time. [...]



.jharris99Healdsburg, CA



..The breakaway churches are returning to an organization that has no moral standing - nil - nada? After 1500 years of pedophilia the church still feels it can condemn others? That almost as much hubris as believing that some God sent his "only" son to a minor planet with billions upon billions of planets seemingly able to support life. (Yes, only the non-christoislamics ever have the presence of mind to make that observation...)

And btw folks - one doesn't need a God in order to form a values system.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.2

...CharlesSan Jose, Calif.



..Albert Einstein in 1936 said, “Everyone who is seriously concerned about the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”

-------------------------

Eternity is a long time. Choose wisely, atheists and apostates.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.2

.Read All 4 Replies

J DubbUSA



..Einstein also said "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropomorphic concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near to those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order and harmony which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly."

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.2

..Gregert JohnsonBradford, NH



..For Einstein, "spirit" represented the ineffable, almost miraculous existence of order in the universe, the understanding of which was the noblest of mankind's aspirations. For Charles, "spirit" is evidently a vengeful, flesh-eating demon with which to frighten children and the unchurched.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.2

...davidapexFlorida

(Poor Einstein. After he died, the christoislamic terrorists have been trying to claim him as one of them - can't leave his genius unclaimed, now can they?

Meanwhile, I think Einstein's views above can well be construed as pantheistic.)



..50% of all Episcopalians are divorced Catholics. Any hope for us? Thought not.....



I'll stay with my wonderful, small Episcopal church.....

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.14

.proud believer in equal rightssan francisco



..I believe the Catholic Church would not recognize your marriage, and would therefore not count the divorce a barrier. However, I do not think you would be allowed to marry again. Please check this if you have an interest. I feel that the Episcopal church will be in many ways better off if all who harbor these feelings leave. However, judging by the photo, be aware that there appears to be a serious risk of morbid obesity in this group.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.2

...AndyPlumas County, California



..To each his and her own.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.2

..fern501Brussels, Belgium



..Is this how the religion wars are being fought now?

I like it better than the Saint Barthelemy massacreof 1572...

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.2



[color="#800080"](No no. It is how the religious wars in the west are being fought today. Yesterday - and tomorrow - the catholic Croatian ustashe still roasted the orthodox Serbs alive in kilns (along with Jews and Roma).

Today, in Africa - even in India - christian denominations are brawling.

In the news, some christian denominations were brawling during the recent Yuletide period at some chuch in the Middle East that had been designated in the 4th century or so as having to do with non-existent jeebus' non-existent life.

All this internal brawling does not cover all religious wars however. Christians are still butchering heathens in heathen spaces like heathen pockets in South America, to SE Asia to of course India.)[/color]







..JackC5Los Angeles Co., CA



..It took me several paragraphs to find the real reason for this, but here it is:



"...broke with tradition on female priests and acceptance of homosexuality..."



Wow, those gays and those women, poor conservatives just can't control 'em.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.29

..Josh ThomasIndiana



..The Times' claim that the anti-Gay, anti-woman schism is tearing apart the Episcopal Church is exaggerated, out of date, old news at best, and the numbers quoted here illustrate that. "Over a hundred priests" out of 7000! "Congregations of 70 or more," as if that's a huge metric.



The reporter would have done better to add more interviews; say, the Duncanite Anglican Church in North America, which has lost nearly every lawsuit it faced, and Gene Robinson, the openly-gay Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire.



Instead the reporter settles for one paragraph from a spokesman for the Episcopal Presiding Bishop - a woman elected overwhelmingly by her male peers.



The Episcopal Church is alive and well, doing better than anyone gives it credit for.



http://dailyoffice.org

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.19

..CharlesSan Jose, Calif.



..While 92% of Americans believe in God, only 35% in Britain do, and 43% say they have no religion, according to Britain's National Centre for Social Research. The Church of England fell from 40% of the population in 1983 to 23% in 2009. My British friends argue that the demise of religion is a good thing…. British influence in the world has… gone off a cliff over the last century… the new, militant atheism that is becoming characteristic of Britain is a key reason. Atheism is a philosophy of nihilism in which nothing is sacred and all is an accident. While it has some brief, flashy moments, life is purposeless and meaningless. There is no soul to illuminate and no spirit to enliven—just dead, decadent flesh. Human love is a prank played by our genes ensuring the sexual propagation of the species……

---- Rabbi Shmuley Boteach , "Renewal: A Guide to the Values-Filled Life (Basic Books, 2010).

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.3



[...]

..Jerry VandesicBoston



..Seems reasonable that someone who has discriminatory views would leave an organization that is abandoning those views and join an organization that still expoused those views. Bigots like to stick together -- there is strength in numbers.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.40

..hdnevets Washington DC



..I don't have a dog in this fight-- I'm Quaker-- but I do think that it's hilarious that a church that formed because Henry wanted to divorce his wife now cries foul because Henry has decided to marry his boyfriend.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.44

.jharris99Healdsburg, CA



..It's not the Church - it's a few reactionary bigots that do not accept gays or women in the priesthood. And BTW, Mr. Quaker, the Church of England was in the process of formation long before Henry VIII.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 7:26 a.m.4



..A Father Maryland



..I would be curious to know how many people have left the Catholic Church for other denominations in the past five years, I suspect that the outflow is more than the inflow.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.35



..MaggiemayPearl River, New York



..My heartfelt congrats to the new converts. Thank you to the Times for this article. In response to all those who dislike the Catholic church and comment from this viewpoint; the Church has been in existence for over 2000 years and Jesus himself appointed a Pope. Remember the Anglican Church began when Henry wanted to brush Catherine of Aragon Spain aside. So from the beginnings the split was for selfish concerns. We all live in a river of time. How we act and behave will affect those downstream. You are here, living and breathing because probably when you were conceived a Man loved a Woman and abortion on demand was not possible. All these rules and beliefs exist for a reason. They help life continue so think a little more selflessly.

The sexual abuse scandal was terrible and many have suffered. The Catholic church was not the only entity that experienced this - it will come out of the ashes stronger. This new decision is only one small sign that the church will grow and become stronger in the hearts of its members.

God Bless you all in 2012.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.7

.SueSanta Barbara, CA. USA



..The church didn't decide to ban abortion until it realized that it was a valuable political tool. Abortion was not always the hot potato it is today. The early, and up to our grandparent's lifetime, church did not pay it much mind. And hopefully, the issue will once again become less important, as issues do that see-saw through time.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.5

..DludNew York City



..God bless you, too, Maggiemay. Common sense, I call it.

Jan. 3, 2012 at 8:51 a.m.4

...RPWJackson



..This article makes me proud once again to be an Episcopalian, the Church that provides the Eucharist to all sorts and conditions of people in their need for Christ, and to wonder, once again: when will the RCC ever reform, democratize, accept lay leadership, and once and for all break up the old boy's club in the Vatican?

Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:48 a.m.26

[...]

Etcetera etcetera. More comments at link. Though, going in the direction of reverse chronology, there appears to be some hints of an increasing presence of catholics entering the fray to do apologetics, counter-castigate and perform the all-important PR/advertising to market their deadly product.