01-23-2012, 08:52 PM
I imagine I comprehend what you're saying and I don't disagree (this is assuming I did understand), though my own post here was actually on a different matter. It's not clear, but it was meant to be lengthier. Since I already had difficulty posting something else that day, I hit post on the extant bit above in order to thereafter immediately edit it by adding comments sort of related to it (found this procedure somewhat helps with the posting issues on IF). Eventually I gave up after the second attempt - especially since I brilliantly lost what was in my copy buffer - and intended to come back again "another day" :handwaving: and then typically forgot all about it. And so it stands awkwardly at present.
What I meant to say was:
There is no surprise in Indians on whatever fora screeching that brahmanas (peculiarly brahmanas) are "foreign". This was a long-standing assault even ten years back in Tamizh fora. They are attacking Hindu religion alone. They want to make the Vedam (hence Vedic, Hindoo religion) foreign. The logic is: make the brahmanas foreign, and the consequence is you get to make the Vedas - i.e. the very cornerstone of Hindu religion - foreign.
- Neo-Buddhists are still claiming this (especially those active in TN).
- The Jain Minority Forum - or whatever it's called - was (and probably still is) claiming this. (In the latter's argument, Jainism is the dravoodians' native religion, while brahmanas were the oryan invaders who brought the Vedic religion. An entertaining twist to the old tale.)
- Obviously the pioneers in such thinking are christians (includes cryptochristians), and they have profound influence over both groups above, though the 2 groups don't give the appearance of being conscious of this influence.
There is a pattern to all this missionising. It is that the aim of these absurd claims IS missionising.
1. First - and I'll be using logic internal to the whole Aryan stuff, it does not reflect me - some 75% of the nation is dubbed "Indo-Aryan" (e.g. by the CIA "factfile" on India). 3% or so is clubbed as "Munda", the rest (under 25%) mainly dumped under "Dravoodian".
2. The "north Indian" population falls under that uncoveted 75% - an uncoveted spot, because they are made foreign in one fell swoop. "Ironically" this 75% includes the very whiny Jain Minority Forum and the locus of neo-Buddhism/ambedkarites (which was not originally TN, and may still not be).
3. But Jainism, like Buddhism is demonstrably .... "north Indian". The neo-Buddhists and the JMF can hardly get out of that one, though the JMF has evolved that grand theory of "native dravoodians" of theirs.
4. In order to evict Hinduism and pretend the locals are "actually" "originally" Jain/"ought to be" Buddhist, they have to uniquely dump the Vedam outside of India proper. After all, to win the majority of the inhabitants to their religion (though in the neo-Buddhist case, the adherents don't really pretend to care for their chosen religion beyond paying lipservice to it, and only choose it to antagonise Hindus),
... to win the majority inhabitants, the salesmen can hardly claim that all/most (the 75%) of the locals are all foreign (along with the Vedam). So they do the next best thing: they dump a most convenient minority - the brahmanas - alone outside. Peculiarly (but predictably) them. Since the brahmanas are by definition intimately tied to the Vedam (actually the kShatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras are tied to it also as per the MBh, but this is somehow considered as inadmissable, since the majority of India's inhabitants would be lost again, if this were recognised)
... since the brahmanas are seen as inextricably linked (and recognised as defined by) the Vedam, the logic is: oust the Brahmanas, and you oust the Vedam and completely remove the legitimacy/nativeness of Hindu religion. While still magically keeping Jainism and Buddhism as "native religions", no longer impeded by being "north Indian" (which previously was an accusation and one that affected all famous native religions of India).
[Christianism is playing a very dangerous mind game with the neo-Buddhists and the JMF. The latter have no idea how fast the rug can (and will) be pulled from under their feet. Tomorrow. I'm just surprised they can't see it coming. But I suppose christianism does not mean them to. As an aside, I wonder when christianism will retire the neo-Buddhisms, they have outlived their usefulness to christianism already.]
The point is: the fact that this Reich (was it) study's interpretation of the current state of the data has caused entities on whatever India fora to specifically target Brahmanas as "foreign"
(though by implication, it must include Tamizh or more general southern fora that were referred to, as it mentioned brahmanas as being dubbed "north Indian" too - which can hardly be an accusation against northern brahmanas, whereas it IS the usual unsubtle eviction notice issued to southern brahmanas. Though now all Indian brahmanas are additionally being called "foreign" apparently, and no doubt that means the anti-brahminism pattern in TN is set to repeat India-wide at last - clever christianism, how long has it taken to get this far?)
The sentence again: the fact that this latest study's views has caused entities on whatever Indian fora to peculiarly target Brahmanas as "foreign" is neither surprising nor novel. And it's specifically anti-Hindu. (And only against Hindu religion. On the face of it, it's whining against "brahmanas". In reality the target being "only brahmanas" is a diversion: the fact that the whinies don't see/pretend not to see how they are likely very much affected by the same class of conclusions, shows that their goal is as usual the eviction of Hindu religion only. Else they'd be screeching against a substantial 75% of the inhabitants and more).
The whining is therefore still as insensible as before, because at a very minimum, the entire 75% is actually still within the eviction notice - though dravoodianists in TN will not seek eviction of the northern natives from the country, but rather use the latest episode in the "proof" of distinction as an excuse to declare how there is no relation btw N and S and seek a break in order to join into a christian eelam. (Which is the old argument behind the old plan. Determined plans bear fruit eventually. And christianism is nothing if not determined.)
Modern India. People in the distant future may actually remember this era and write many books about it as a turning point.
I find all this curiously fascinating - now that I no longer see it as a tragedy (can't help it: it ceases to be a tragedy when the protagonists are already/mostly dead, and those that remain are largely not the characters you'd be rooting for anyway) -
it's fascinating because we're living in a crucial part of its history. It is truly like no other period in its past, in some key respects. A landmark in time. Particularly for all the reasons one dares not articulate.
What I meant to say was:
There is no surprise in Indians on whatever fora screeching that brahmanas (peculiarly brahmanas) are "foreign". This was a long-standing assault even ten years back in Tamizh fora. They are attacking Hindu religion alone. They want to make the Vedam (hence Vedic, Hindoo religion) foreign. The logic is: make the brahmanas foreign, and the consequence is you get to make the Vedas - i.e. the very cornerstone of Hindu religion - foreign.
- Neo-Buddhists are still claiming this (especially those active in TN).
- The Jain Minority Forum - or whatever it's called - was (and probably still is) claiming this. (In the latter's argument, Jainism is the dravoodians' native religion, while brahmanas were the oryan invaders who brought the Vedic religion. An entertaining twist to the old tale.)
- Obviously the pioneers in such thinking are christians (includes cryptochristians), and they have profound influence over both groups above, though the 2 groups don't give the appearance of being conscious of this influence.
There is a pattern to all this missionising. It is that the aim of these absurd claims IS missionising.
1. First - and I'll be using logic internal to the whole Aryan stuff, it does not reflect me - some 75% of the nation is dubbed "Indo-Aryan" (e.g. by the CIA "factfile" on India). 3% or so is clubbed as "Munda", the rest (under 25%) mainly dumped under "Dravoodian".
2. The "north Indian" population falls under that uncoveted 75% - an uncoveted spot, because they are made foreign in one fell swoop. "Ironically" this 75% includes the very whiny Jain Minority Forum and the locus of neo-Buddhism/ambedkarites (which was not originally TN, and may still not be).
3. But Jainism, like Buddhism is demonstrably .... "north Indian". The neo-Buddhists and the JMF can hardly get out of that one, though the JMF has evolved that grand theory of "native dravoodians" of theirs.
4. In order to evict Hinduism and pretend the locals are "actually" "originally" Jain/"ought to be" Buddhist, they have to uniquely dump the Vedam outside of India proper. After all, to win the majority of the inhabitants to their religion (though in the neo-Buddhist case, the adherents don't really pretend to care for their chosen religion beyond paying lipservice to it, and only choose it to antagonise Hindus),
... to win the majority inhabitants, the salesmen can hardly claim that all/most (the 75%) of the locals are all foreign (along with the Vedam). So they do the next best thing: they dump a most convenient minority - the brahmanas - alone outside. Peculiarly (but predictably) them. Since the brahmanas are by definition intimately tied to the Vedam (actually the kShatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras are tied to it also as per the MBh, but this is somehow considered as inadmissable, since the majority of India's inhabitants would be lost again, if this were recognised)
... since the brahmanas are seen as inextricably linked (and recognised as defined by) the Vedam, the logic is: oust the Brahmanas, and you oust the Vedam and completely remove the legitimacy/nativeness of Hindu religion. While still magically keeping Jainism and Buddhism as "native religions", no longer impeded by being "north Indian" (which previously was an accusation and one that affected all famous native religions of India).
[Christianism is playing a very dangerous mind game with the neo-Buddhists and the JMF. The latter have no idea how fast the rug can (and will) be pulled from under their feet. Tomorrow. I'm just surprised they can't see it coming. But I suppose christianism does not mean them to. As an aside, I wonder when christianism will retire the neo-Buddhisms, they have outlived their usefulness to christianism already.]
The point is: the fact that this Reich (was it) study's interpretation of the current state of the data has caused entities on whatever India fora to specifically target Brahmanas as "foreign"
(though by implication, it must include Tamizh or more general southern fora that were referred to, as it mentioned brahmanas as being dubbed "north Indian" too - which can hardly be an accusation against northern brahmanas, whereas it IS the usual unsubtle eviction notice issued to southern brahmanas. Though now all Indian brahmanas are additionally being called "foreign" apparently, and no doubt that means the anti-brahminism pattern in TN is set to repeat India-wide at last - clever christianism, how long has it taken to get this far?)
The sentence again: the fact that this latest study's views has caused entities on whatever Indian fora to peculiarly target Brahmanas as "foreign" is neither surprising nor novel. And it's specifically anti-Hindu. (And only against Hindu religion. On the face of it, it's whining against "brahmanas". In reality the target being "only brahmanas" is a diversion: the fact that the whinies don't see/pretend not to see how they are likely very much affected by the same class of conclusions, shows that their goal is as usual the eviction of Hindu religion only. Else they'd be screeching against a substantial 75% of the inhabitants and more).
The whining is therefore still as insensible as before, because at a very minimum, the entire 75% is actually still within the eviction notice - though dravoodianists in TN will not seek eviction of the northern natives from the country, but rather use the latest episode in the "proof" of distinction as an excuse to declare how there is no relation btw N and S and seek a break in order to join into a christian eelam. (Which is the old argument behind the old plan. Determined plans bear fruit eventually. And christianism is nothing if not determined.)
Modern India. People in the distant future may actually remember this era and write many books about it as a turning point.
I find all this curiously fascinating - now that I no longer see it as a tragedy (can't help it: it ceases to be a tragedy when the protagonists are already/mostly dead, and those that remain are largely not the characters you'd be rooting for anyway) -
it's fascinating because we're living in a crucial part of its history. It is truly like no other period in its past, in some key respects. A landmark in time. Particularly for all the reasons one dares not articulate.