Wrote the following about a week ago, wasn't certain I wanted to post it. But figure I wrote it, may as well.
The first example refers to something I saw 2 weeks past.
Only the stuff in quoteblocks are relevant. And maybe some items highlighted in blue.
Post 1/?
[color="#0000FF"]Complaint about a perplexing trend: (degree of) de-heathenisation among self-declared 'Hindu nationalists'[/color]
Example 1:
[color="#0000FF"]In the twitter feed of the Rajeev2004 blog this past week, Rajeev Srinivasa(n) - who appears to have started to spell his surname differently - seemed to be in some discussion about who the heroes of the MBh were vs who weren't really. The statements by his respondents were not visible, but there were clear signs it was not a monologue.
Rajeev decided that the real hero of the MBh was Karna, and that Arjuna wasn't really one, but rather that Arjuna merely had everything handed to him on a platter, and that both Karna and Draupadi had been shortchanged (by the turn of events in their life). At one point it he wrote that Draupadi was tragic for being oppressed because of her gender. And Karna was caste oppressed or something.
IIRC Rajiv even declared at some point that there are no temples to the Pandavas or something.[/color] I didn't save the exact statement he made on this, but he said something to that effect. But it's inaccurate.
There most certainly are temples to the Pandavas all over the country. In TN alone, there are numerous ancient Kovils to the Pandavas with Draupadi and Kunti, including village temples. E.g. a number of the Dharmaraaja temples in TN are to YudhiShThira rather than his father Yama: Yama's son inherited names/titles from his father since he too is an embodiment of Dharma, making Yudhishthira essentially a Repeat of his Father. (C.f. Murugan is in essence a repeat of Shiva.)
Yudhisthira Dharmaraaja Hindu Kovils in Tamil Nadu naturally contain his relatives. This next one contains his Wife Draupadi and the rest of his Pandava Brothers, as well as his Mother Kunti and Krishna. But in the Yudhishthira Dharmaraaja Kovils, the primary God is Yudhishthira. There are temples where Draupadi Amman is the primary God etc.
eprarthana.com/temples/chennai/tn155dhar.asp?tid=155
wikimapia.org/14588212/DHARMARAJA-KOIL-STREET-DROWBATHI-AMMAN-KOIL
There are a great many temples all over India to the Pandavas (and their mother and Draupadi), some with Karna too.
But there are also temples to Karna all over Hindu space. In the following, Karna is the primary deity, but is understandably worshipped with his Pandava brothers:
E.g. india9.com/i9show/Karna-Temple-62329.htm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFKfE8vUjo
Karna temple Kerala
Not sure if this is the same as or different from the Malanada Karna temple in Kerala.
(There's also Kovils featuring Karna in TN, btw.)
All 6 brothers - Pandavas + Karna - are actually Gods. Being born of the divine essences of their Divine Fathers, they are practically the same as their Fathers. This is considered literally true, as seen in Yudhishthira's case - he is a repeat of Yama Dharmaraaja - but also that of his brothers. Karna *is* Surya('s essence), Yudhishthira *is* Yama Dharmaraaja('s essence), Bheema *is* Vaayu, Arjuna *is* Indra, and Nakula and Saahadeva *are* the Ashwins. So declaring that Karna is the real hero and not Arjuna reduces to the logically inane statement that Surya > Indra. (And just to be explicit: Surya is not < Indra either.)
The thing is, the MBh is filled with the Hindu Gods. And not all appear on the winning side.
- You've got Gods appearing in vesham and as themselves: e.g. Shiva + Parvati disguised as Hunters at first.
There's cameos by other Gods - either incognito or as themselves - such as Agni and Hanumaan and some others that I can't remember.
- But you also have Gods manifesting in incarnations: e.g. Brahmaa owing to a temporary "curse"** comes down as the Gandharva Raaja Chitrasena (and naturally Saraswati will have come down as Chitrasena's wife). There's also Gangaa. According to the famous MBh serial's first or so episode both Gangaa and her Deva husband were conveniently "cursed" to come down as important progenitors of the Kuru dynasty. Vishnu and Lakshmi obviously come down as Krishna and Bala and as Rukmini and Revati and most - if not all - of Krishna's many other Wives (some of which are said to be Bhoo and NeeLaa Devi. Essentially all the wives are Amman's essence here).
- And the Gods even make their appearance on the losing side. First, there is the Vasu Raaja manifesting as Bheeshma owing to yet another "curse"** which conveniently made him appear on earth too in pseudo-earthly form and "coincidentally" just in time to take part in the great epic. (Though the incarnation as Bheeshma may have pretended to be single, the Vasu Raaja himself is eternally married.) Then there is of course Surya Bhagavaan manifesting his essence as Karna. I suspect that just like the Vasu Raaja's presence accounts for all of the Vasus, Surya's presence summarises all the Navagrahas.
- 5 further Gods (and at least one Amman) also manifested by their essences. The essences of the aforementioned Yama, Vaayu, Indran and the two Ashwins came down as the Pandavas.
But at least several of these Gods - including Surya - also make appearances in the Mahabharatam as themselves - i.e. as Indran and Suryan and Yama - distinct from their sons. The identity relationship with their sons seems the same as with how Murugan is identical to and yet distinct from Shiva.
Draupadi's case also saw her making the usual divine appearance by IIRC yagnya, which is highly indicative of divine intent besides especially pointing to a Goddess.
- In fact, it may well be that the entire Devasenaa accompanied Indran by manifesting as the Pandavas' sena. Considering that Shiva's appearance as the Hunter - along with his Wife - also brought along the Shiva-Ganas in disguise in the narrations I have heard. So why wouldn't Indran have the essences of the devasena manifesting in Bhooloka alongside his own essence? Like Rama's Vanara Sena are often said to be - at least in oral traditions in the South - the essences of all the Devas manifesting alongside Vishnu as Raama.
** The "curses" against Brahmaa, Gangaa Amman and the Vasu Raaja (who then appears as Bheeshma) were obviously just devices to get them to appear on earth, to play their divine parts in the great earthly war that mirrored the war in the beyond.
(Cont. in next)
The first example refers to something I saw 2 weeks past.
Only the stuff in quoteblocks are relevant. And maybe some items highlighted in blue.
Post 1/?
[color="#0000FF"]Complaint about a perplexing trend: (degree of) de-heathenisation among self-declared 'Hindu nationalists'[/color]
Example 1:
[color="#0000FF"]In the twitter feed of the Rajeev2004 blog this past week, Rajeev Srinivasa(n) - who appears to have started to spell his surname differently - seemed to be in some discussion about who the heroes of the MBh were vs who weren't really. The statements by his respondents were not visible, but there were clear signs it was not a monologue.
Rajeev decided that the real hero of the MBh was Karna, and that Arjuna wasn't really one, but rather that Arjuna merely had everything handed to him on a platter, and that both Karna and Draupadi had been shortchanged (by the turn of events in their life). At one point it he wrote that Draupadi was tragic for being oppressed because of her gender. And Karna was caste oppressed or something.
IIRC Rajiv even declared at some point that there are no temples to the Pandavas or something.[/color] I didn't save the exact statement he made on this, but he said something to that effect. But it's inaccurate.
There most certainly are temples to the Pandavas all over the country. In TN alone, there are numerous ancient Kovils to the Pandavas with Draupadi and Kunti, including village temples. E.g. a number of the Dharmaraaja temples in TN are to YudhiShThira rather than his father Yama: Yama's son inherited names/titles from his father since he too is an embodiment of Dharma, making Yudhishthira essentially a Repeat of his Father. (C.f. Murugan is in essence a repeat of Shiva.)
Yudhisthira Dharmaraaja Hindu Kovils in Tamil Nadu naturally contain his relatives. This next one contains his Wife Draupadi and the rest of his Pandava Brothers, as well as his Mother Kunti and Krishna. But in the Yudhishthira Dharmaraaja Kovils, the primary God is Yudhishthira. There are temples where Draupadi Amman is the primary God etc.
eprarthana.com/temples/chennai/tn155dhar.asp?tid=155
Quote:Dharmaraja Temple
Location : M.K. Amman Koil Street, Mylapore.
Main Deity : Dharmaraja.
Other Deities : Arjuna, Bhima, Draupadi, Ganapathi, Krishna, Kunti, Nakula, Sahadeva, Subhadra.
wikimapia.org/14588212/DHARMARAJA-KOIL-STREET-DROWBATHI-AMMAN-KOIL
Quote:DHARMARAJA KOIL STREET,DROWBATHI AMMAN KOIL. (Arcot)
India / Tamil Nadu / Arcot
World / India / Tamil Nadu / Arcot World / India / Tamil Nadu / Vellore
Most powerfull daity,this god is worshipped once in 12 years by big festivel,40 days festivel,having 40 days Mahabharatha sorpozivu,20 days theru koothu,6 god marriage functions,Arjuna thabasu,Finally people(devoties) will walk on fire by the grace of the god Drowpathi amman.
Chinna Babu/V>Lakshmana Kumar/Bullet Babu-who also walked on the fire.
We are twin brothers-Ram,Lakshman-Peribabu,Chinnababu(R.Vyrakkannu Sub-Registrar-Sulochana ammal-Parents.)
There are a great many temples all over India to the Pandavas (and their mother and Draupadi), some with Karna too.
But there are also temples to Karna all over Hindu space. In the following, Karna is the primary deity, but is understandably worshipped with his Pandava brothers:
E.g. india9.com/i9show/Karna-Temple-62329.htm
Quote:India | UttaranchalCan note how Karna is worshipped together with his brothers here. Consistent with tradition too. In the MBh itself, the divine Karna was supposed to be united with his divine brothers and mother as a family again in Swarga.
Karna Temple
Karna Temple is located in Deora Village in Uttarkashi District. The temple is dedicated to Karna, elder brother of Pandavas and one of main characters of the Mahabharat. It is a rectangular wooden temple. A wooden umbrella with brass finial is topped on its pent roof. The temple's wooden beams and columns are decorated with carvings and the doors are decorated with metal plates. The doors depict birds, animals, reptiles and scenes from the Ramayana. [color="#0000FF"]Six miniature temples, located in the compound, are dedicated to Karna and the five Pandavas.[/color] There is also a Shivling in the compound. Images of Parvati and Nandi are installed in the temple. The nearest airport and railway station are at Dehradun.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFKfE8vUjo
Karna temple Kerala
Not sure if this is the same as or different from the Malanada Karna temple in Kerala.
(There's also Kovils featuring Karna in TN, btw.)
All 6 brothers - Pandavas + Karna - are actually Gods. Being born of the divine essences of their Divine Fathers, they are practically the same as their Fathers. This is considered literally true, as seen in Yudhishthira's case - he is a repeat of Yama Dharmaraaja - but also that of his brothers. Karna *is* Surya('s essence), Yudhishthira *is* Yama Dharmaraaja('s essence), Bheema *is* Vaayu, Arjuna *is* Indra, and Nakula and Saahadeva *are* the Ashwins. So declaring that Karna is the real hero and not Arjuna reduces to the logically inane statement that Surya > Indra. (And just to be explicit: Surya is not < Indra either.)
The thing is, the MBh is filled with the Hindu Gods. And not all appear on the winning side.
- You've got Gods appearing in vesham and as themselves: e.g. Shiva + Parvati disguised as Hunters at first.
There's cameos by other Gods - either incognito or as themselves - such as Agni and Hanumaan and some others that I can't remember.
- But you also have Gods manifesting in incarnations: e.g. Brahmaa owing to a temporary "curse"** comes down as the Gandharva Raaja Chitrasena (and naturally Saraswati will have come down as Chitrasena's wife). There's also Gangaa. According to the famous MBh serial's first or so episode both Gangaa and her Deva husband were conveniently "cursed" to come down as important progenitors of the Kuru dynasty. Vishnu and Lakshmi obviously come down as Krishna and Bala and as Rukmini and Revati and most - if not all - of Krishna's many other Wives (some of which are said to be Bhoo and NeeLaa Devi. Essentially all the wives are Amman's essence here).
- And the Gods even make their appearance on the losing side. First, there is the Vasu Raaja manifesting as Bheeshma owing to yet another "curse"** which conveniently made him appear on earth too in pseudo-earthly form and "coincidentally" just in time to take part in the great epic. (Though the incarnation as Bheeshma may have pretended to be single, the Vasu Raaja himself is eternally married.) Then there is of course Surya Bhagavaan manifesting his essence as Karna. I suspect that just like the Vasu Raaja's presence accounts for all of the Vasus, Surya's presence summarises all the Navagrahas.
- 5 further Gods (and at least one Amman) also manifested by their essences. The essences of the aforementioned Yama, Vaayu, Indran and the two Ashwins came down as the Pandavas.
But at least several of these Gods - including Surya - also make appearances in the Mahabharatam as themselves - i.e. as Indran and Suryan and Yama - distinct from their sons. The identity relationship with their sons seems the same as with how Murugan is identical to and yet distinct from Shiva.
Draupadi's case also saw her making the usual divine appearance by IIRC yagnya, which is highly indicative of divine intent besides especially pointing to a Goddess.
- In fact, it may well be that the entire Devasenaa accompanied Indran by manifesting as the Pandavas' sena. Considering that Shiva's appearance as the Hunter - along with his Wife - also brought along the Shiva-Ganas in disguise in the narrations I have heard. So why wouldn't Indran have the essences of the devasena manifesting in Bhooloka alongside his own essence? Like Rama's Vanara Sena are often said to be - at least in oral traditions in the South - the essences of all the Devas manifesting alongside Vishnu as Raama.
** The "curses" against Brahmaa, Gangaa Amman and the Vasu Raaja (who then appears as Bheeshma) were obviously just devices to get them to appear on earth, to play their divine parts in the great earthly war that mirrored the war in the beyond.
(Cont. in next)