[quote name='vasu_ray' date='15 May 2012 - 06:28 AM' timestamp='1337043027' post='114859']
Wouldn't the SoC concept used in A5 help in the reduction of weight of electronics on the Sats significantly?
[/quote]
This is just my take on the specs released and Dr Saraswat's multiple television interviews and news reports. All of these are connecting the dots. Make what you will of this. The SOC isn't really indigenous. We developed the software for it. This is one of those 20% imports which were specified. Dr. saraswat's definition of the interview posted above is an affirmation. He says indigenous means not susceptible to dual export control. Materials which are not export restricted.
The link below is an example of a standard ppc soc which is used in military hardware. Please note the SOC at the bottom of the page. Yep it's just that small piece of silicon. This soc may or may not be the one used in Agni V. There are many ppc soc's available in military specs for purchase to tailors and vegetable vendors. You can add the rest of the connectors on a printed circuit board with access to sensors other discrete electronics and pretty much do what you want.
http://www.broadreachengineering.com/pro...dhard-cpu/
Here is another soc based computer that is most probably not used in Agni V. The SOC is just the broadcom chip. The rest are usb port connectors, vga connectors and other stuff.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/up...o_Blue.png
So really while we can jump up and down, it's really just been programmed with mission computer possibly running a linux based RTOS or some other RTOS that supports a strongly typed language like ADA as Arun points out.There is also confirmation one one of the news reports that the programming of the SOC is indigenous.
Yes SOC isn't very robust as a single mission computer. I believe this is where the other ugly cube comes in on dual redundancy which is on tamsark007'(spelling?) page of INS navigation computer.(Or we have only one SOC linked to the ugly cube of an INS and Laser Gyro). This SOC based mission computer also interfaces with the Laser Gyro which is mems based.
You can even have a fab churn them out for you with VLSI design. I don't think we will go down that route just yet for missiles. Our Fabs can't handle it. We are not going to send out military designs to a fab outside India. There were some rumors on Russian help for Agni V on some news reports. These could be the SOC with Indian VLSI designs out of the Russian fab. I am open to both but I think we have something like BRE440 given that it's stated to be a PPC SOC in some news reports.I am not sure we licensed the PPC instruction set for use in India which will be a dual use item. So a SOC with VLSI design in India only for Agni V i not likely.This also increases the cost of our missile.
On SOC, I have divided opinion on redundancy. A hardened analog computer is very good but has too many points of failure. Maybe we can have a soc and backup INS if soc fails or it could be why we have only dual redundant navigation linked to the same soc. We can't say one way or another based on available information.
As far as satellites go it isn't really all about SOC's reducing power consumption and weight. It does and they are used a lot. However the significant weight issues are based on fuel for orbital maneuvering, power to operate the transceiver module which can transmit signals which are picked up a ka band or l band small dish or even a brick sized or smaller sat phone depending on what equipment you want to keep networked in the military communication equipment. Your imaging equipment on a satellite is an optical camera with a digital multi-megapixal sensor and isn't really a power drain given there is no flash involved.(*chuckle*) The storage can be on flash chips. I am not sure what we use on our satellites now. There is significant weight involved in energy storage and solar panels when the satellite are not facing the sun. Plutonium based batteries might be the answer. Radioisotope thermoelectric generator. They are used in lighthouses in russia with 10 year lifespans. They also power the cassini spacecraft. A small rtg of a few kg should be enough to handle the mission electronic needs for a year or more.
On a tangential note India is planning on two fabs of the 300mm process.(The current standard.) They failed in the Hyderabad project in 2009 or so. They even went to the Taiwanese fabs with orders of all Indian military as the carrot for the latest fabs being setup in India in 2009. The fabs were not interested. A few military orders won't cut the die on manufacturing. Since then there has been a new tender with government ready to give a lot of soaps. This is quiet a change from 2003 when we kicked out Intel who moved to Israel. Intel couldn't get global foundries to chip in on the new tender so they are ready to provide advice. The others include an Israeli company with IBM and someone else. A Russian fab is also in the run. So we might see two 5 billion dollar fabs coming up. This is the last line of defense against external threats we are planning to put up. Sanction proof almost all our military products. We are very serious on this as far as I can tell. Just need follow through unlike the Hyderbad fab where the land prices were pushed up and all ugly nonsense happened. We are likely to guarantee power from a nuclear plant or some stable source like some IIT's and air force bases have with direct access to national grid instead of state electricity access. Special concessions may also include tax tariffs on chips imported into India which can be made in these fabs. There is also the possibility of asking electronics manufacturers to use these chips in their devices in India.Lots of tools available.
Wouldn't the SoC concept used in A5 help in the reduction of weight of electronics on the Sats significantly?
[/quote]
This is just my take on the specs released and Dr Saraswat's multiple television interviews and news reports. All of these are connecting the dots. Make what you will of this. The SOC isn't really indigenous. We developed the software for it. This is one of those 20% imports which were specified. Dr. saraswat's definition of the interview posted above is an affirmation. He says indigenous means not susceptible to dual export control. Materials which are not export restricted.
The link below is an example of a standard ppc soc which is used in military hardware. Please note the SOC at the bottom of the page. Yep it's just that small piece of silicon. This soc may or may not be the one used in Agni V. There are many ppc soc's available in military specs for purchase to tailors and vegetable vendors. You can add the rest of the connectors on a printed circuit board with access to sensors other discrete electronics and pretty much do what you want.
http://www.broadreachengineering.com/pro...dhard-cpu/
Here is another soc based computer that is most probably not used in Agni V. The SOC is just the broadcom chip. The rest are usb port connectors, vga connectors and other stuff.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/up...o_Blue.png
So really while we can jump up and down, it's really just been programmed with mission computer possibly running a linux based RTOS or some other RTOS that supports a strongly typed language like ADA as Arun points out.There is also confirmation one one of the news reports that the programming of the SOC is indigenous.
Yes SOC isn't very robust as a single mission computer. I believe this is where the other ugly cube comes in on dual redundancy which is on tamsark007'(spelling?) page of INS navigation computer.(Or we have only one SOC linked to the ugly cube of an INS and Laser Gyro). This SOC based mission computer also interfaces with the Laser Gyro which is mems based.
You can even have a fab churn them out for you with VLSI design. I don't think we will go down that route just yet for missiles. Our Fabs can't handle it. We are not going to send out military designs to a fab outside India. There were some rumors on Russian help for Agni V on some news reports. These could be the SOC with Indian VLSI designs out of the Russian fab. I am open to both but I think we have something like BRE440 given that it's stated to be a PPC SOC in some news reports.I am not sure we licensed the PPC instruction set for use in India which will be a dual use item. So a SOC with VLSI design in India only for Agni V i not likely.This also increases the cost of our missile.
On SOC, I have divided opinion on redundancy. A hardened analog computer is very good but has too many points of failure. Maybe we can have a soc and backup INS if soc fails or it could be why we have only dual redundant navigation linked to the same soc. We can't say one way or another based on available information.
As far as satellites go it isn't really all about SOC's reducing power consumption and weight. It does and they are used a lot. However the significant weight issues are based on fuel for orbital maneuvering, power to operate the transceiver module which can transmit signals which are picked up a ka band or l band small dish or even a brick sized or smaller sat phone depending on what equipment you want to keep networked in the military communication equipment. Your imaging equipment on a satellite is an optical camera with a digital multi-megapixal sensor and isn't really a power drain given there is no flash involved.(*chuckle*) The storage can be on flash chips. I am not sure what we use on our satellites now. There is significant weight involved in energy storage and solar panels when the satellite are not facing the sun. Plutonium based batteries might be the answer. Radioisotope thermoelectric generator. They are used in lighthouses in russia with 10 year lifespans. They also power the cassini spacecraft. A small rtg of a few kg should be enough to handle the mission electronic needs for a year or more.
On a tangential note India is planning on two fabs of the 300mm process.(The current standard.) They failed in the Hyderabad project in 2009 or so. They even went to the Taiwanese fabs with orders of all Indian military as the carrot for the latest fabs being setup in India in 2009. The fabs were not interested. A few military orders won't cut the die on manufacturing. Since then there has been a new tender with government ready to give a lot of soaps. This is quiet a change from 2003 when we kicked out Intel who moved to Israel. Intel couldn't get global foundries to chip in on the new tender so they are ready to provide advice. The others include an Israeli company with IBM and someone else. A Russian fab is also in the run. So we might see two 5 billion dollar fabs coming up. This is the last line of defense against external threats we are planning to put up. Sanction proof almost all our military products. We are very serious on this as far as I can tell. Just need follow through unlike the Hyderbad fab where the land prices were pushed up and all ugly nonsense happened. We are likely to guarantee power from a nuclear plant or some stable source like some IIT's and air force bases have with direct access to national grid instead of state electricity access. Special concessions may also include tax tariffs on chips imported into India which can be made in these fabs. There is also the possibility of asking electronics manufacturers to use these chips in their devices in India.Lots of tools available.