Post 2/
Elst writes about the need for Samskritam to be the "national language".
There was a time I thought that too. I then realised I was mistaken.
Samskritam is a *Hindu* language - intimately tied to the religion as per the Hindoos and as admitted by their competition (until the competition then tries to launch claims to the language for itself).
So do people really want to teach christoislamics Samskritam? Think about it.
Nationalists are likely to insist blindly on a Yes, but that's because they don't know what they're saying Yes too. If India becomes christoislamic and Samskritam was its national language at that time, it will be treated like Latin and Greek and Arabic are now: presented as "christoislamic" languages. [Urdu is a special case, though it is an islamised version of a very unpleasant and uncouth sounding merger of (once-)heathen languages - notably Persian, Arabic, Hindi.]
As everyone knows, neither Latin, Greek nor Arabic were originally christoislamic. They were the languages of heathens. And at the very least Greek - but perhaps not exclusively in that list, there is some indication (IIRC, even some metres employed in Latin were considered sacred to Hellenistic Romans) - was even considered a sacred language among its heathens.
So think: christoislamism won't at all mind making Samskritam its national language if that's the state of affairs it were to (illegally) inherit when it takes over the country. Moreover, christianism has already made public its eagerness to acquire Samskritam for christianism (after killing the language among the Hindus; same as it aims to do with Bharatanatyam, Carnatic music etc: christianism aims to play the "saviour" of "Indian culture" by usurping it via the claim "Hindus abandoned it". That's what christianism *does*. It's what all the christoconditioning is for: for making next generations of Hindus "progressive" and getting them to abdicate their forms of religious expression). When islam can accept Urdu in favour of Arabic in the subcontinent - at least for now - it will not have much problem in accepting Samskritam in favour of Urdu. Skt will never have first place in islam, of course - which is reserved for Arabic due to contextual reasons - but islam will cease to care about the issue of Samskritam vs Urdu if the country were islamised at a point where the lingua franca was Skt, since Urdu actually has no real special status in islam only an emotional connection to the islamics of the subcontinent. That is, Urdu is in fact replaceable, whether TSP-ers like the idea or not.
* "Ironically" (actually, predictably), significant elements in catholicism are the most willing - among all the extant christianisms - for swallowing Skt as a *major* "christian" liturgical language, despite having been pedantic about Latin in the past. But these elements in catholicism have indicated that more than mere inculturation is behind their unnatural designs on Skt. Inculturation is merely about stealing the popular local heathen religious expression by developing the falsehood that this is "national therefore christian *culture* (devoid of heathen religion)", in order to acquire converts. Christianism aims for more than that with Skt. While inculturated elements will be purged/phased out once the natives have been domesticated properly into christianism over a few generations, the literature indicates they do not plan on purging Skt.
Do not let the enemies have Samskritam and turn it into a "national language" of "Indian culture". It is a language of Hindu religion that binds Hindus from Larger Bharatam, and is indeed accorded divine status (as regional Hindu languages are too) by being identified with the Gods themselves. Indeed, Skt having been called the devabhaasha - or so it still was, at least until even my parents' time - tells you what the Hindoos think their language is. While it would be tempting for over-excited nationalist Hindus to turn this into the next Universalism - the way the exporting jetsetters did with Yoga - if Hindus don't give Skt to enemies, then at least they need not blame themselves for the blunder.
It does Not belong in the hands of the enemies. No more than the ancient Greek learning of the Hellenes should have ever fallen into christianism's hands to teach in ancient GR schools. Christianism will subvert it and use it for its own purposes, both to destroy the native religion of that language and to promote their own religion with it and then present the language as being tied to their religion.
Clearly, I can't make the argument properly. So here follows the Professional again, over 1.5 millennia ago. On Julian (via a detail taken from RSmith again):
And when the indologicals reads into the Vedic literature that it "actually" says or means "this or that" - again, point to Julian: "Proper education (paideia orthe) entails not merely expertise in language and letters, but a 'healthy disposition'". The aliens were never heathens, they can never be heathens again, all they know is merely to decipher the *letters* and the words and from there dubbed themselves "experts" on the language and then made the miraculous leap to somehow declare themselves as "experts" on the Vedam: "vedicists" - or even alien "brahmanas", some actually call themselves. I kid you not. Looney, quite looney.)
I've gone off the point again, haven't I.
Julian could not deny the soul-terrorists - I mean, the christians - access to the ancestral language (many christians in the empire already had access to Latin and/or Greek). But we're in a position to do exactly that: deny christoislamics access as far as is in our ability.
Hindus had already committed a heinous crime before - for which Hindoos (and others) are still paying through the nose: by giving Alien terrorists access to our language and texts. Of course the alien terrorists are unable to do anything properly with it for themselves - and it has quite driven them out of their minds - but they have been damaging many native heathens' views past the point of reversal.
But don't multiply - through your own action - that earlier crime, by willingly (or even unconsciously) enabling the local terrorists' - who are alien in their own right - access to the Hindoo Skt language, and thereby giving them the three-fold advantage of
1. debasing Skt into a vehicle to propagate their own nonsense (in particular as christianism's liturgical language, or the pretence that it is somehow "equally" theirs; it is exclusively Hindoo) - I mean, *look* what they did to Latin and Greek;
2. subverting Hindoo literature hence religion further by typical christian sleight of hand
3. stealing it gradually from the Hindus (the way Hellenistic education had ended up in christian hands. But in that case, in a few short centuries, christianism utterly extinguished the GR schools and consequently all education.)
Teach all the Hindoos, certainly (goes without saying). But do not teach the enemies. What Julian said: don't arm the nemesis.
They are clearly unable to learn it (in any worthwhile numbers) at present for themselves. Allow them - indeed, help them - to remain forever illiterate in this and to keep up their hatred of it: when they hate all else to do with Hindoo religion and plot for its demise, they may be consistent and continue to equally hate the language that is so intimately and inextricably tied to it.
Until those presently infected with the mindvirus ideologies fully, truly and properly revert to their ancestral Hindu religion - forswearing completely the false non-existent "gawd" entity who has been the excuse for mankind's destruction including that of heathenism - until then, no converted individuals have right to Samskritam. Certainly not by means of being taught by Hindus.
Hindus may romantically like to imagine that their beloved devabhaashaa will "save" the christoislamics - perhaps revert them through mere contact with the pristine language, or at least make the enemies more nationalistic(ally-inclined). But Greek and Latin did not make christianism more nationalistic in a heathen Roman empire. (Plus who cares about "nationalism" among christoislamics when the latent threat of jeebusjehovallah will remain as long as the christoislamic mindvirus remains.) Also, look at the Alien dabblers who have "learnt" Samskritam and then the "Vedas". And consider the extent of their madness.
Elst's suggestion - although it's not an original suggestion, Hindus have said it often enough since long before - is a double-edged knife:
+ Samskritam *must* take its rightful place as the language of connecting Hindus India-wide, so Hindus most certainly *need* to revive it (it is intrinsically related to a significant part of pan-Hindu identity and self-heathenisation; which is exactly why alien *christians* are trying to subvert interpretation of Hindu Samskrita-language texts, while others are hoping to secularise the language into "it belongs to all Indians equally including of course christianism")
+ Yet it must be kept from christoislamics, as it is a sacred Hindoo language. Moreover, christoislamics were not and never shall choose to be "nationalists" until the nation is christoislamic. Their ideology is their primary objective (and anyone who doubts that is beyond merely delusional). In contrast, only nationalistic Hindus would *choose* to place nationalism as their first religion and subordinate their Hindu religion to their nationalism, thereby slowly killing of their heathenism.
While some among the other traditional Indic religions still object to Samskritam amidst their general aversion to anything Hindu (including especially as national or connective language), don't know the leveraging power of the objection, though they have been willing to gang up with christoislamism in the past to play the persecuted minority and may do so again if they heard murmer of Samskritam looming as the national language. But *Hindus* would not object to Skt, since it is their inherited ancestral language and also because no one is expecting people to relinquish their own regional mother tongue in favour of any other (the way English always does: English monotheistically extincts other languages and thereby other religio-cultures).
I still think my own idea on how to spread Skt among Hindus - IIRC mentioned in detail long ago - though very high on effort for those preparing it, would allow the Hindu target audience to pick up Samskritam effortlessly (and *want* to learn it and to speak it).
When well executed, I continue to be convinced it's the best (and IMO surefire) way of propagating Skt: like osmosis even. Indeed, it would achieve at least 3 Hindu targets in one go, possibly even 4. But it really needs masses of people donating their free time. Sadly it's had 0 takers among Hindus whenever I've suggested it.
igh:
Elst writes about the need for Samskritam to be the "national language".
There was a time I thought that too. I then realised I was mistaken.
Samskritam is a *Hindu* language - intimately tied to the religion as per the Hindoos and as admitted by their competition (until the competition then tries to launch claims to the language for itself).
So do people really want to teach christoislamics Samskritam? Think about it.
Nationalists are likely to insist blindly on a Yes, but that's because they don't know what they're saying Yes too. If India becomes christoislamic and Samskritam was its national language at that time, it will be treated like Latin and Greek and Arabic are now: presented as "christoislamic" languages. [Urdu is a special case, though it is an islamised version of a very unpleasant and uncouth sounding merger of (once-)heathen languages - notably Persian, Arabic, Hindi.]
As everyone knows, neither Latin, Greek nor Arabic were originally christoislamic. They were the languages of heathens. And at the very least Greek - but perhaps not exclusively in that list, there is some indication (IIRC, even some metres employed in Latin were considered sacred to Hellenistic Romans) - was even considered a sacred language among its heathens.
So think: christoislamism won't at all mind making Samskritam its national language if that's the state of affairs it were to (illegally) inherit when it takes over the country. Moreover, christianism has already made public its eagerness to acquire Samskritam for christianism (after killing the language among the Hindus; same as it aims to do with Bharatanatyam, Carnatic music etc: christianism aims to play the "saviour" of "Indian culture" by usurping it via the claim "Hindus abandoned it". That's what christianism *does*. It's what all the christoconditioning is for: for making next generations of Hindus "progressive" and getting them to abdicate their forms of religious expression). When islam can accept Urdu in favour of Arabic in the subcontinent - at least for now - it will not have much problem in accepting Samskritam in favour of Urdu. Skt will never have first place in islam, of course - which is reserved for Arabic due to contextual reasons - but islam will cease to care about the issue of Samskritam vs Urdu if the country were islamised at a point where the lingua franca was Skt, since Urdu actually has no real special status in islam only an emotional connection to the islamics of the subcontinent. That is, Urdu is in fact replaceable, whether TSP-ers like the idea or not.
* "Ironically" (actually, predictably), significant elements in catholicism are the most willing - among all the extant christianisms - for swallowing Skt as a *major* "christian" liturgical language, despite having been pedantic about Latin in the past. But these elements in catholicism have indicated that more than mere inculturation is behind their unnatural designs on Skt. Inculturation is merely about stealing the popular local heathen religious expression by developing the falsehood that this is "national therefore christian *culture* (devoid of heathen religion)", in order to acquire converts. Christianism aims for more than that with Skt. While inculturated elements will be purged/phased out once the natives have been domesticated properly into christianism over a few generations, the literature indicates they do not plan on purging Skt.
Do not let the enemies have Samskritam and turn it into a "national language" of "Indian culture". It is a language of Hindu religion that binds Hindus from Larger Bharatam, and is indeed accorded divine status (as regional Hindu languages are too) by being identified with the Gods themselves. Indeed, Skt having been called the devabhaasha - or so it still was, at least until even my parents' time - tells you what the Hindoos think their language is. While it would be tempting for over-excited nationalist Hindus to turn this into the next Universalism - the way the exporting jetsetters did with Yoga - if Hindus don't give Skt to enemies, then at least they need not blame themselves for the blunder.
It does Not belong in the hands of the enemies. No more than the ancient Greek learning of the Hellenes should have ever fallen into christianism's hands to teach in ancient GR schools. Christianism will subvert it and use it for its own purposes, both to destroy the native religion of that language and to promote their own religion with it and then present the language as being tied to their religion.
Clearly, I can't make the argument properly. So here follows the Professional again, over 1.5 millennia ago. On Julian (via a detail taken from RSmith again):
Quote:A plain reading of his (Emperor Julian's) argument might imply the view that the best remedy against the impiety of Christians will be to educate them. Julian would indeed have assented to that, but with the crucial proviso that it is a requirement of true education that one is taught in a particular manner. What he says about education as a cure for Christian folly needs to be read alongside an immediately preceding remark in Against the Galilaeans:(BTW, the bit in blue of what Julian says above applies to the Alien terrorists aka dabblers and other indologicals too. And, similarly, the statement that "education (paideia orthe) entails not merely expertise in language and letters, but a 'healthy disposition'" gives you the reason why Hindus should not empower Indologicals and other Aliens to lecture Hindus on Hindu religion. The aliens are not even heathens, forget Hindus, forget having seen the Hindoo Gods. The sole reason Hindus need to popularise among their own kind to implant auto-immunity towards the Wendy Donigers is: "They haven't seen the Gods - they're not even heathens - so why would any sane person be listening to these entities?"
'If your own Scriptures are sufficient for you, why do you nibble at the learning of the Greeks?' (229c). The comment hints at the writer's outrage at the uses to which Christians have put the cultural heritage of the Greeks - an outrage plain in remarks that Julian makes elsewhere. Two of his unplaced fragments set out the issue succinctly:
[Let us ensure] that they [the Christians] may not, by sharpening their tongues, prepare themselves to take on the Greeks in debate ... for as the proverb has it, we are struck by our own arrows. For they arm themselves from our own writings to do battle with us.75
It is well enough known that Julian did not confine himself to mere debate in this matter. An edict of 17 June 362 had ruled that would be teachers must be authorized to teach by civic councils,76 and a rescript soon followed to make it clear that Christian professors were to be disqualified in toto by this law. The rescript gives a fuller expression to Julian's grievance and an ideological explanation of his action. Proper education (paideia orthe) entails not merely expertise in language and letters, but a 'healthy disposition';77 a man who thinks one thing and teaches another fails to educate his pupils. There is passing allusion to philosophers in this connection, but once again the main focus of Julian's attention lies with the gods and their cult worship.
("Healthy disposition" <-> heathen view, as is also apparent from how this relates directly to "the main focus of Julian's attention".)
And when the indologicals reads into the Vedic literature that it "actually" says or means "this or that" - again, point to Julian: "Proper education (paideia orthe) entails not merely expertise in language and letters, but a 'healthy disposition'". The aliens were never heathens, they can never be heathens again, all they know is merely to decipher the *letters* and the words and from there dubbed themselves "experts" on the language and then made the miraculous leap to somehow declare themselves as "experts" on the Vedam: "vedicists" - or even alien "brahmanas", some actually call themselves. I kid you not. Looney, quite looney.)
I've gone off the point again, haven't I.
Julian could not deny the soul-terrorists - I mean, the christians - access to the ancestral language (many christians in the empire already had access to Latin and/or Greek). But we're in a position to do exactly that: deny christoislamics access as far as is in our ability.
Hindus had already committed a heinous crime before - for which Hindoos (and others) are still paying through the nose: by giving Alien terrorists access to our language and texts. Of course the alien terrorists are unable to do anything properly with it for themselves - and it has quite driven them out of their minds - but they have been damaging many native heathens' views past the point of reversal.
But don't multiply - through your own action - that earlier crime, by willingly (or even unconsciously) enabling the local terrorists' - who are alien in their own right - access to the Hindoo Skt language, and thereby giving them the three-fold advantage of
1. debasing Skt into a vehicle to propagate their own nonsense (in particular as christianism's liturgical language, or the pretence that it is somehow "equally" theirs; it is exclusively Hindoo) - I mean, *look* what they did to Latin and Greek;
2. subverting Hindoo literature hence religion further by typical christian sleight of hand
3. stealing it gradually from the Hindus (the way Hellenistic education had ended up in christian hands. But in that case, in a few short centuries, christianism utterly extinguished the GR schools and consequently all education.)
Teach all the Hindoos, certainly (goes without saying). But do not teach the enemies. What Julian said: don't arm the nemesis.
They are clearly unable to learn it (in any worthwhile numbers) at present for themselves. Allow them - indeed, help them - to remain forever illiterate in this and to keep up their hatred of it: when they hate all else to do with Hindoo religion and plot for its demise, they may be consistent and continue to equally hate the language that is so intimately and inextricably tied to it.
Until those presently infected with the mindvirus ideologies fully, truly and properly revert to their ancestral Hindu religion - forswearing completely the false non-existent "gawd" entity who has been the excuse for mankind's destruction including that of heathenism - until then, no converted individuals have right to Samskritam. Certainly not by means of being taught by Hindus.
Hindus may romantically like to imagine that their beloved devabhaashaa will "save" the christoislamics - perhaps revert them through mere contact with the pristine language, or at least make the enemies more nationalistic(ally-inclined). But Greek and Latin did not make christianism more nationalistic in a heathen Roman empire. (Plus who cares about "nationalism" among christoislamics when the latent threat of jeebusjehovallah will remain as long as the christoislamic mindvirus remains.) Also, look at the Alien dabblers who have "learnt" Samskritam and then the "Vedas". And consider the extent of their madness.
Elst's suggestion - although it's not an original suggestion, Hindus have said it often enough since long before - is a double-edged knife:
+ Samskritam *must* take its rightful place as the language of connecting Hindus India-wide, so Hindus most certainly *need* to revive it (it is intrinsically related to a significant part of pan-Hindu identity and self-heathenisation; which is exactly why alien *christians* are trying to subvert interpretation of Hindu Samskrita-language texts, while others are hoping to secularise the language into "it belongs to all Indians equally including of course christianism")
+ Yet it must be kept from christoislamics, as it is a sacred Hindoo language. Moreover, christoislamics were not and never shall choose to be "nationalists" until the nation is christoislamic. Their ideology is their primary objective (and anyone who doubts that is beyond merely delusional). In contrast, only nationalistic Hindus would *choose* to place nationalism as their first religion and subordinate their Hindu religion to their nationalism, thereby slowly killing of their heathenism.
While some among the other traditional Indic religions still object to Samskritam amidst their general aversion to anything Hindu (including especially as national or connective language), don't know the leveraging power of the objection, though they have been willing to gang up with christoislamism in the past to play the persecuted minority and may do so again if they heard murmer of Samskritam looming as the national language. But *Hindus* would not object to Skt, since it is their inherited ancestral language and also because no one is expecting people to relinquish their own regional mother tongue in favour of any other (the way English always does: English monotheistically extincts other languages and thereby other religio-cultures).
I still think my own idea on how to spread Skt among Hindus - IIRC mentioned in detail long ago - though very high on effort for those preparing it, would allow the Hindu target audience to pick up Samskritam effortlessly (and *want* to learn it and to speak it).
When well executed, I continue to be convinced it's the best (and IMO surefire) way of propagating Skt: like osmosis even. Indeed, it would achieve at least 3 Hindu targets in one go, possibly even 4. But it really needs masses of people donating their free time. Sadly it's had 0 takers among Hindus whenever I've suggested it.
igh: