Post 11/?
I can't even begin to guess how I missed this beauty - when it's *so* obvious anyone else would have spotted it first...
Wacky Neminath page declared:
That just clinches the issue, right?
As stated before: The only AriShTanemi mentioned as relative to kRiShNa-vAsudeva in the Harivamsha is not the son of any brother of vasudeva (kriShNa's father). (No ariShTanemi as relative of kRiShNa is mentioned in the MBh proper. Though I'm thinking that in this matter the HV would be considered more relevant than the rest of the MBh, assuming the title of Harivamsha really does mean what I imagine it means. In any case, HV certainly has at least a whole chapter devoted to the Balarama-kRiShNa duo's ancestry, so it comes in handy.)
Moreover, no samudravijaya is mentioned in the HV at all, so that means none by this name is mentioned as brother to vasudeva (father of Bala and kRiShNa) either. The enumeration of vasudeva's 9 brothers and 5 sisters is instead (mostly copy-and-paste):
- 9 brothers: "deva-bhAga, deva-shrava, anAdhR^iShTi, kanavaka, vatsavAn (translation says he's also known as vatsa-bhAnu), gR^i~njima, shyAma, shamIka, and gaNDUSha"
- 5 sisters: "pR^ithu-kIrti, pR^itha, shruta-deva, shruta-shrava and rAjAdhi-devi".
From what I can make of the family tree as explicated in HarivaMsha 1.34: The great-grandad of kRiSNa (devamIDhuSha) is brother of the great-grandfather of the only ariShTanemi named in HV who is related to kRiShNa. (ariShTanemi's great-grandad is named as yudhAjit.) The root paternal ancestor shared by kRiShNa and this HV-AriShTanemi is kroShTu, their great-great-grandfather.
So the score is:
- contrary to Jain claims, the only relative of kRiShNa called ariShTanemi that the HV knows about is NOT the son of vasudeva's brother. I.e. samudravijaya (or whatever his alias Jains want Neminatha's dad to have) is not ever mentioned as the brother of kRiShNa's dad vasudeva.
- All the male offspring of vasudeva's brothers are named and accounted for, even by rumour (i.e. Ekalavya). None of which are called ariShTanemi. Again, contrary to Jain claims.
- contrary to the Jain version, HV's ariShTanemi is not the son of anyone named samudravijaya but the son of chitraka. HV doesn't know any samudravijaya/samudra-vijaya/samudra vijaya.
- contrary to the Jain verison, HV's ariShTanemi's grandfather is not called "andhakavRiShNi" but vRiShNi/pRiShNi who is brother to andhaka.
Actually, can compare for oneself. [color="#0000FF"]Here's the relevant part of the Yadu family tree, as described in the translation of Harivamsha Chapter 1.34.[/color] (I don't *think* I've made any mistakes... <- But never trust other people's calculations: always work out the answer for yourself, to confirm/double-check.)
![[Image: Harivamsha_Yadukula_zps8166cec0.png]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/indiaforum/Harivamsha_Yadukula_zps8166cec0.png)
(Oh great. A blur "special effect" on the image. Courtesy of photobucket's 'resize' feature no doubt...)
Can compare the above with the Jain account which, to quote Wacky, is: "Krishna was son of Vasudev who was brother of Samudra Vijaya i.e. father of Neminath"
=> Clearly, not talking about the same thing at all.
I can't even begin to guess how I missed this beauty - when it's *so* obvious anyone else would have spotted it first...
Wacky Neminath page declared:
Quote:Neminatha, the 22nd Tirthankara of the Jains, was the son of Samudra Vijaya and grandson of Andhakavrishni. Jains and some Hindus consider Neminath to be the cousin of Krishna..[3][4]
Krishna was son of Vasudev who was brother of Samudra Vijaya i.e. father of Neminath
That just clinches the issue, right?
As stated before: The only AriShTanemi mentioned as relative to kRiShNa-vAsudeva in the Harivamsha is not the son of any brother of vasudeva (kriShNa's father). (No ariShTanemi as relative of kRiShNa is mentioned in the MBh proper. Though I'm thinking that in this matter the HV would be considered more relevant than the rest of the MBh, assuming the title of Harivamsha really does mean what I imagine it means. In any case, HV certainly has at least a whole chapter devoted to the Balarama-kRiShNa duo's ancestry, so it comes in handy.)
Moreover, no samudravijaya is mentioned in the HV at all, so that means none by this name is mentioned as brother to vasudeva (father of Bala and kRiShNa) either. The enumeration of vasudeva's 9 brothers and 5 sisters is instead (mostly copy-and-paste):
- 9 brothers: "deva-bhAga, deva-shrava, anAdhR^iShTi, kanavaka, vatsavAn (translation says he's also known as vatsa-bhAnu), gR^i~njima, shyAma, shamIka, and gaNDUSha"
- 5 sisters: "pR^ithu-kIrti, pR^itha, shruta-deva, shruta-shrava and rAjAdhi-devi".
From what I can make of the family tree as explicated in HarivaMsha 1.34: The great-grandad of kRiSNa (devamIDhuSha) is brother of the great-grandfather of the only ariShTanemi named in HV who is related to kRiShNa. (ariShTanemi's great-grandad is named as yudhAjit.) The root paternal ancestor shared by kRiShNa and this HV-AriShTanemi is kroShTu, their great-great-grandfather.
So the score is:
- contrary to Jain claims, the only relative of kRiShNa called ariShTanemi that the HV knows about is NOT the son of vasudeva's brother. I.e. samudravijaya (or whatever his alias Jains want Neminatha's dad to have) is not ever mentioned as the brother of kRiShNa's dad vasudeva.
- All the male offspring of vasudeva's brothers are named and accounted for, even by rumour (i.e. Ekalavya). None of which are called ariShTanemi. Again, contrary to Jain claims.
- contrary to the Jain version, HV's ariShTanemi is not the son of anyone named samudravijaya but the son of chitraka. HV doesn't know any samudravijaya/samudra-vijaya/samudra vijaya.
- contrary to the Jain verison, HV's ariShTanemi's grandfather is not called "andhakavRiShNi" but vRiShNi/pRiShNi who is brother to andhaka.
Actually, can compare for oneself. [color="#0000FF"]Here's the relevant part of the Yadu family tree, as described in the translation of Harivamsha Chapter 1.34.[/color] (I don't *think* I've made any mistakes... <- But never trust other people's calculations: always work out the answer for yourself, to confirm/double-check.)
(Oh great. A blur "special effect" on the image. Courtesy of photobucket's 'resize' feature no doubt...)
Can compare the above with the Jain account which, to quote Wacky, is: "Krishna was son of Vasudev who was brother of Samudra Vijaya i.e. father of Neminath"
=> Clearly, not talking about the same thing at all.