On a topic that IF member Dhu has been posting about for years: Joseph Atwill's work Caesar's Messiah
haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=17966
But then, Pope Leo X did loudly and famously declare for all history to document "How much we have profited by the *legend* of Christ".
A relevant comment at HK:
Islam isn't the only cult existentially-dependent on jeebus.
No more ISKCONism aka Hare Christna-ism either. Hedged their bets wrong: that's what happens when ISKCON/Prabhupada invent a new character called "Krishna" equated to that genocidal propaganda-fiction known as "jeebus-allah". In this and other ways, Prabhupada did clearly warn people that he was not talking about the Hindu God/Avatara known as Krishna.
I don't want to be all doom and gloom however: even if jesus never had a beginning, this need not be his end. And why *should* this stop people believing in jeebus anyway? He only ever existed/had a "life" in people's "faith", and that's all the proof they ever really proffered or wanted.
Besides, he's not the *only* character claimed to be historical despite having no tangible evidence submitted for his person. I mean, there's a whole population of unattested entities out there that modern people fervently build their hopes and histories on: when so many people believe in the Oryans, why should one more character who's unknown to history be considered a burden? Not to mention that jesus has a more ancient claim, in that belief in jeebus has been around for longer: over a millennia (though he too was backprojected by all accounts, though not projected quite as far back as the Oryans).
And if some 1600 years pass, Oryanism too will, by then, be a "long established" belief, as will ur-Shramanism. Or maybe this expose on Jesus betokens a sinister pattern: perhaps every unattested character will have a lifespan in people's imaginations of just under 2 millennia. Alternatively, jesus and all other fictions could simply appeal to the masses forever. ("Once invented, never forgotten.") I think the latter is more likely. (At best, every now and then, people will threaten to resurrect them - and could do at a moment's notice.)
So there's no need to think that jesus can't continue persisting in the faith of christians as he has so far - indeed, there's every hope he may continue to spook the world, despite these brief moments of waking up (which regularly happen every century or so). Christians are as attached to jesus as oryanists to oryans. [Which would explain why, like christianism and other religions famous for peddling relics, the oryanists have a relic industry too, and an embarrasingly large number of obsessed collectors for archaeological finds that are assigned to the unattested oryans *, who get free creditation for everything wondrous invented by man anywhere in at least two continents, even though the oryans were unheard of until just a few centuries ago. (But I admit back-projection *is* one of the greatest and most brilliant innovations in human history-writing. And oryanism like ur-shramanism proves we can start at any time and go back as far as we want. So there's hope for us all to try our hand at this.)
* The collectors consider the oryans their esteemed ancestors - conveniently possessed of all the qualities they want their ancestors to have had, so they can feel better/superior about themselves - hence the collector frenzy.]
Worst case scenario: there's no need to experience withdrawal symptoms. Humanity's mental patterns being predictable, even if jeebus/christianism went the way of the dodo at last - anything being possible :requiem: - there'll still be oryans/oryanism and ur-shramanas/ur-shramanism and a zillion other such to take their place in capturing and retaining mankind's fancy. And if ever these too were to dodo far off into the future, then I'm sure there'll always be something just as powerfully captivating and infectious awaiting to work on humans minds. There'll always be *something*. So no need to get all wistful. Still, am feeling optimistic that jeebus' lack of historicity will neither stop christians nor sway islamics. The truth about jeebus' non-historicity has come out so often after all, even back when the Roman empire was still standing. So when has it ever before stopped christianism/islam?
Maybe the fact that the Internet now exists will make a difference. (I'm not holding my breath. But anything's possible.)
haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=17966
haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=17966
Quote:Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
15/10/2013 14:58:51 http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.
London (PRWEB UK) 8 October 2013American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October topresent a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament waswritten by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-days ymposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com.
Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upsetsome believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with someambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people.
"Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at thetime, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains."When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome.
"Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament.
"I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts."Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesusministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar.
"How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time?" Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.' "Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break.
We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blindacceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East." Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session.
Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus NeverExisted." Further information can be found at
http://www.covertmessiah.com.
About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book"Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."
*Contact Information* *Ryan Gilmore* http://www.covertmessiah.com +44 7854966520
But then, Pope Leo X did loudly and famously declare for all history to document "How much we have profited by the *legend* of Christ".
A relevant comment at HK:
Quote: Hindu
16/10/2013 04:29:17 this one
It is a very Good News. Allah(Mo) also Blabbered about Jesus. So that also will be debunked. <smiley>
Islam isn't the only cult existentially-dependent on jeebus.
No more ISKCONism aka Hare Christna-ism either. Hedged their bets wrong: that's what happens when ISKCON/Prabhupada invent a new character called "Krishna" equated to that genocidal propaganda-fiction known as "jeebus-allah". In this and other ways, Prabhupada did clearly warn people that he was not talking about the Hindu God/Avatara known as Krishna.
I don't want to be all doom and gloom however: even if jesus never had a beginning, this need not be his end. And why *should* this stop people believing in jeebus anyway? He only ever existed/had a "life" in people's "faith", and that's all the proof they ever really proffered or wanted.
Besides, he's not the *only* character claimed to be historical despite having no tangible evidence submitted for his person. I mean, there's a whole population of unattested entities out there that modern people fervently build their hopes and histories on: when so many people believe in the Oryans, why should one more character who's unknown to history be considered a burden? Not to mention that jesus has a more ancient claim, in that belief in jeebus has been around for longer: over a millennia (though he too was backprojected by all accounts, though not projected quite as far back as the Oryans).
And if some 1600 years pass, Oryanism too will, by then, be a "long established" belief, as will ur-Shramanism. Or maybe this expose on Jesus betokens a sinister pattern: perhaps every unattested character will have a lifespan in people's imaginations of just under 2 millennia. Alternatively, jesus and all other fictions could simply appeal to the masses forever. ("Once invented, never forgotten.") I think the latter is more likely. (At best, every now and then, people will threaten to resurrect them - and could do at a moment's notice.)
So there's no need to think that jesus can't continue persisting in the faith of christians as he has so far - indeed, there's every hope he may continue to spook the world, despite these brief moments of waking up (which regularly happen every century or so). Christians are as attached to jesus as oryanists to oryans. [Which would explain why, like christianism and other religions famous for peddling relics, the oryanists have a relic industry too, and an embarrasingly large number of obsessed collectors for archaeological finds that are assigned to the unattested oryans *, who get free creditation for everything wondrous invented by man anywhere in at least two continents, even though the oryans were unheard of until just a few centuries ago. (But I admit back-projection *is* one of the greatest and most brilliant innovations in human history-writing. And oryanism like ur-shramanism proves we can start at any time and go back as far as we want. So there's hope for us all to try our hand at this.)
* The collectors consider the oryans their esteemed ancestors - conveniently possessed of all the qualities they want their ancestors to have had, so they can feel better/superior about themselves - hence the collector frenzy.]
Worst case scenario: there's no need to experience withdrawal symptoms. Humanity's mental patterns being predictable, even if jeebus/christianism went the way of the dodo at last - anything being possible :requiem: - there'll still be oryans/oryanism and ur-shramanas/ur-shramanism and a zillion other such to take their place in capturing and retaining mankind's fancy. And if ever these too were to dodo far off into the future, then I'm sure there'll always be something just as powerfully captivating and infectious awaiting to work on humans minds. There'll always be *something*. So no need to get all wistful. Still, am feeling optimistic that jeebus' lack of historicity will neither stop christians nor sway islamics. The truth about jeebus' non-historicity has come out so often after all, even back when the Roman empire was still standing. So when has it ever before stopped christianism/islam?
Maybe the fact that the Internet now exists will make a difference. (I'm not holding my breath. But anything's possible.)
haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=17966
Quote:Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
15/10/2013 14:58:51 uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm