2/3
The latest thing - not sure if it is christowestern or Chinese communist or Buddhist history rewriting that started it, but Buddhism is certainly making full use of it - is to declare that Daoist Gods are "Chinese Gods" and that a concocted ur-Chinese religion distinct from Daoism predated Daoism too. Until recent years, it was admitted (in many western books on China by the way) that Daoism was the ancestral religion of China and that the Chinese Gods are Daoist Gods. I.e. the ancestral Chinese religion/Gods was interchangeable with Daoism/Daoist Gods. Suddenly and very deliberately, the split has been created (essentially declaring that ancestral Chinese didn't have any philosophical core and that Daoism is pure-philosophy + associated practices). So Daoists notice how it's being propagated that the Chinese Pantheon is distinct from Daoism, that Daoism is just a "philosophy" (this last is found to be necessary by a certain type of alien would-be dabblers in Daoism, since they want to encroach on Daoist "philosophy" and "practices" but don't want the Daoist Gods). In converse, Buddhism is projecting itself as having an equal right to the ur-Chinese religion and its pantheon by declaring that since these things "obviously" predated Daoism, it is "Chinese culture" and therefore belongs equally to Buddhism. I.e. Buddhism's goal - as elsewhere - is to strip the instrinsic Daoist "philosophy" from Chinese religion and stick Buddhism as the philosophy on Chinese religion, in order to Bauddhify Chinese religion/declare it as "equally Buddhist" as it is Daoist: that since Daoism is now declared distinct from ancestral Chinese religion, all "philosophies" in China have "equal" claim on ancestral Chinese religion, and so does Buddhism.
Buddhism always lops off the head (="philosophy", the one thing Buddhism is competing with to replace) from the body of other religions to install itself as the new head. Buddhism is *only* "philosophy", it has no Gods and no religio-culture (i.e. no unique ritual practices that are not obviously inspired by precursors in pre-existing heathen religion): that is why Buddhism inculturates everywhere, and is seen to have Chinese Gods in Daoist areas and Shinto Gods in Shinto areas and Bon influences in Tibet etc. More proof that Buddhism cares nothing about others' Gods and is not a heathenism, just a missionary religion masquerading as one.
Hindus ought to know that Daoism derives from the Daoist Gods themselves: it is *their* (the Gods') religion, meaning they are the centre of their religion and the upholders thereof, the ones who impart it. Daoist thought - perception of the Kosmos and reality - and cultivation is what the Daoist Gods teach their heathens (even today the Daoist Gods teach it first-hand to humans, by the way - sometimes the Daoist Immortals teach it). Daoist "philosophy" is inseparably associated with the Daoist Gods, the way Philosophy (i.e. of Hellenismos) is associated with Hellenismos and the Olympic Gods.
But it is always a christowestern tactic to strip philosophy and religious practices from heathenism/religions of the Gods to impound these for christianism/alien dabbling (the way christianism does with Philosophy and Vedanta/Yoga/etc), and it's a Buddhist etc tactic to separate philosophy from heathenism/religions of the Gods, only to toss the "philosophy" parts aside and replace this with Buddhism as the "philosophy" instead and inculturate on all the rest.
Christianism has a replacement god but no philosophy (that's why christians started by encroaching on Greek Mysteries and mangled these and declared these to be christian mysteries. It's also why christianism still inculturates on Platonism).
New-agey aliens* interested in Vedanta/Yoga/Sankhya/Tantra but not in Hindu Gods want just the philosophy and practices but not the Gods.
* Different from "Vedic reconstructionist" and other neo-pagan type aliens, who most definitely want to encroach on Hindu Gods. The equally concocted neo-paganism/Goddess-religion types/wiccans declare all heathenisms to be something called a "Paganism" - and even that all Goddesses are "one" etc. - and that these aliens therefore should have access to (=the right to dabble in) all religions of the world, and thus create a nonsense mix of religions. Essentially a new ageism. A blatant example of the latter:
youtube.com/watch?v=BDSu0-qDFQ8
Looney (American? Euro?) "Pagan" "Wiccans" pretending that they know Kali or any of the named Goddesses of Others. Or that these Goddesses care for their (inept, btw) dabbling. Well, Kali certainly doesn't.
The "chant" consists of them repeating the listed names in sequence. The sum total of wicca/neo-paganism, I suppose. And then suddenly this becomes "magickal" as in their title.
The bit that gives away (to Hindus) how the alien loons are making this up is where the loons involve Kali in their nonsense.
All alien dabbling in others' heathenism (or bad reconstruction) is - ultimately and equally - in(s)ane, but the above is more *obviously* hilarious to everyone with half a brain.
The whole "Goddess" poaching tactic is a neo-pagan routine. They like to pretend that by declaring themselves "neo-pagan/wiccan" they are conferred automatic access to/right to Other People's *ancestral* Goddesses. They pretend there is an ancient "Goddess" religion and that the Goddesses of all religions are somehow related - or even one and the same ultimately **- and form a religion of their own: a Goddess religion, which neo-paganism pretends is "ancient". Note: this is supposedly independent of the actual religions the poached Goddesses belong to. Whereas in reality Kali belongs in and presides over Hindu religion, while Demeter and Hekate and Diana similarly belong to Hellenismos, etc. Moreover, Kali is not a Goddess of a religion distinct from that of her husband and brother and the rest of the Hindu Pantheon, none of the Hindu Goddesses or Gods are of a religion separate from that of their Spouse and the other Devas. But then, neo-paganism and wicca are just looney invention. And who invited them to dabble in Hindu religion? But about 50% of the "converts" to Hindu religion - or those alleging an "interest" in Hindu religion/Gods/rituals - are neo-pagans. The give-away is always when they dabble in multiple religions or threaten some anonymous "Goddess" or start equating Hindu Goddesses with others' Goddesses. A la in that silly youtube video above. [** In contrast, the genuine Hellenes at YSEE don't even conflate their own distinct Goddesses with each other, let alone conflating Goddesses of Others with the Olympic Gods: e.g. ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=polytheism which also has a video explaining how all their Gods and Goddesses are distinct.]
An example of the alien tendency to "collect" Goddesses from all over the world for their new-agey "neo-pagan" dabbling was at an SL link I once posted on this thread concerning the Hindu Goddess known to Tamizh Hindus, Kannagi. IIRC Female alien dabblers in Theravada Buddhism made use of the but few-centuries old phenomenon of Therevada Buddhist inculturation on Hindus' Kannagi to start dabbling in Kannagi and add her to their "collection" of poached Goddesses. [Having said that, it's not just female alien dabblers - or even just lesbian wiccan covens or whatever or other fembot neopagan movements - that dabble in the concocted "Goddess religion" else the "Goddess-onlee religion". The list of perpetrators includes male wiccans/neo-pagans too.]
When aliens discover Daoist and Shinto Gods and Goddesses, they always start dabbling in these too. But it's an Alien Thing. Christo-conditioned forever, all aliens can ever be is new-age and all they can ever do is dabble.
(Also, there are all too many cases on the web of people starting their dabbling in the Vedam only to end by swearing by Hindu tantra and then jumping ship to dabble in the Daoist equivalent of Tantra. Dabbling in Daoism promises a dangerous end however :evil-grin: )
On the subject. I remember that Koenraad Elst's all-new-age following included several aliens [he seems to attract alien new-agers as much as Indian readership], one of whom called himself "Apuleius (sp?) Something". It was an alien, and its gravatar image was the Tamizh OM symbol. <- Typical alien poacher, has moved passed oryan claims on Hindu religion to neo-pagan claims, in order to poach on sacred Tamizh Hindu symbols. Clicking on the alien's handle led to his About page where it quoted some lame English translation from Kalidaasa's Kumara Sambhavam, which has absolutely nothing to do with the alien, despite its delusions of some universal Paganism. But his About quote does explain why the dabbling alien felt entitled to the Tamizh OM: because that is intimately associated with Kumaran. The section on "interests" and further pages revealed the alien is male and hosts various neo-pagan - a mish-mash of Buddhist, Hindu, Hellenistic - and of course Wiccan pages.
Meanwhile, genuine Hellenes politely but firmly disassociate themselves from all things "Neo-pagan" as seen at ysee.gr's FAQ. I'm betting Apuleius has no Greek ancestry either, as Greek Hellenes feel no need to dabble in Wicca AND Hellenismos. (That he has no Hindu ancestry was already obvious.)
The annoying thing about the whole wicca/neo-paganism fad is that neo-pagans - usually dabbling from in the US somewhere - tend to whine "persecuted" as often as christians do. They will consider they're being "persecuted" for their concocted "faith" if Hindus and other heathens were to tell them to stop encroaching on Hindu/etc Gods and practices. Yet it is actually Hindus (and Hindu Gods) and other heathens following their ancestral heatheism who are being persecuted: it's their sacred ancestral religions being messed with, diluted, and utterly *ridiculed* by being forced into some weird mix-and-match new-ageism by aliens who have no business in others' ancestral religion (i.e. people who can't even resurrect their own ancestral religion, aka people dumped by their own ancestral Gods. It's very sad, but it's obviously true - else they wouldn't be dabbling - and it's not a problem I caused: their christo-converted ancestors are to blame, no need to take it out on Hindu or Daoist etc religion therefore. Alien dabblers don't understand why heathens don't feel "positive" towards their dabbling tendencies: it's because ethnic religions consider dabbling a hostile and anti-heathen and de-sacralizing act. Daoism certainly does - their very Gods do - and traditional Hindu society still doesn't accept alien "converts". And native Americans like the L/D/Nakota already told alien dabblers - in a declaration of war no less - to get lost, and delcared new-age religion salesmen selling native religion to aliens the enemy too. I totally comprehend why. Alien dabblers nearly turned sacred native American religion into a joke/new-age-ism. And I see that happening with Hindu religion in the hands of aliens dabblers "converts" all the time, not to mention neo-pagans who dabble in multiple religions at the same time. Which would be another reason why ysee.gr's FAQ describes neo-paganism as probably being christianism in disguise. It's certainly christo-conditioned. It turns serious, sacred religions that *work* into fake new-age travesties.)
E Asians with their great ability to tear the christowest's Asiaphile tendencies to shreds (from lopsided "interracial relationships" to the western hobby of adopting/abducting children from Asia/Africa/S & C America), should really write a tome on the *racism* of alien dabblers (=christoconditioned by definition) in heathenisms and aliens' grand sense of entitlement to dabble in others' ancestral religions. It would be Da Book to read, I'm sure. It will leave Indian would-be scholars' inept "purva-paksha" treatises gathering dust on the shelves. Sigh.
Anyway, YSEE reminded me of the following comparison to be made. The parallel may be unpleasant but it's hardly unfounded.
1. ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=dt21-1
2. Now can compare the above with the following, posted by others earlier in this thread (on page 1 in fact):
[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='09 May 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1273377387' post='106279']
The nAstika tilopA from the va~Nga country is highly regarded among Tibetans. He was an aggressive subversionist of former dharma. He says in apabhraMsha:
bamhA vihNu mahesura devA | bohisattva ma karahu seva | deva ma pUjahu titya Na jAvA | devapUjAhi Na mokkha pAvA ||
Here tilopA says: bodhisattva, do not worship the deva-s brahmA, viShNu and maheshvara; do not do pUjA to deva-s do not go to tIrtha-s. One does not get mokSha by doing pUjA to deva-s. Earlier, the sthaviravAdin buddhaghosha (born a brAhmaNa in magadha) who calls upon the nAstika-s to desist from hearing the rAmAyaNa or the bhArata. Actually, this strain is an original aspect of the tAthagata-s that passed unchanged through the transition of the yAna-s. Umakant Mishra points to a li~Nga in the Soro village of Orissa that has been defaced by the carving of a nAstika dharaNi on it. So the pAShaNDa-s were ready to put these words into practice. Yet we are repeatedly told that it is the Astika-s who were the buddha-busters (to borrow a favorite term of the Mohammedan: bhut-shikhan).
manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2010/05/08/the-rant-of-tilopa/
[/quote]
Same difference.
I recall reading somewhere that in Thailand IIRC (which had a Tamizh Hindu presence before it got Bauddified) Buddhists sell Bauddhified "Shivalingams" (oxymoron) - to bauddify the remnants of the Hindu Shaiva influences in Thailand. (Apparently Nepalese Buddhists carve Buddhist symbols into Shivalingas also - a factoid I have not verified for myself, BTW.) So maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on Aphrodite being tattoed with christian crosses to "sanctify" her for christianism? Or at least not if the christian manufacturing line were to produce Aphrodite imagery with christian crosses carved into her head? Or Buddhism in E and SE Asia selling a Daoist God with the head of a pig, which he does not have, after having invented [a false clone of] him with it?
Yeah, *right*. But it's all *equally* unwelcome.
But inculturation works that way. All these instances are of a nouveau Replacement religion mangling the correct perception of the original religion, by encroaching on Gods/sacred imagery that the replacement religion never even cared for in the first place. And why? For missionary purposes onlee.
Hmmm. The bold bit below from manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/the-anti-shaiva-rants-of-the-nastika-s/
The same phrase was echoed in page 1, post #14 - a year later in 2009 I note (but I'll put that down to obvious influence).
The bold bit is *way* too polite. It's not "inferiority complex". It's jealousy. Plain and simple.
Copycatting for inculturation purposes is not flattery. It is something missionary religions resort to when their *own* plain-vanilla religion fails to impress the laity they want to convert or when converted laity shows signs of revertibility. They realise their religion doesn't have these "features" and that these things are considered attractive by adherents of the old religion. So the missionary religions/ replacement theologies then compromise some of their principles for the purposes of their zeal and start to inculturate on the native religion - 'transforming' each 'feature' as a legitimate part of its own mythology. Eventually poaching it for all that "appeals", but only to the (utmost) extent that the replacement religion is willing to sacrifice its own features, but not beyond: so for example, christianism will not inculturate as far as adopting Hindu Gods as equivalents for Jeebus let alone as part of an extended pantheon featuring him (only when converting the Hindus do they still use the Hindu pantheon only to introduce jeebus as an addition to it). Having said that, christianism did declare Mercury and Demeter etc were Santas, sort of like how it declared that Aphrodite had been sanctified and was thus part of the christian worldview/cosmogony now. Or the case of how Greek mysteries were poached for "Christian mysteries". And so also Odysseus himself was identified with jeebus - all backwards in time, naturally: "it was all christian mystery", declared moderns in Angleterre peddling a Hellenistic-christian 'composite culture' - another oxymoron).
The latest thing - not sure if it is christowestern or Chinese communist or Buddhist history rewriting that started it, but Buddhism is certainly making full use of it - is to declare that Daoist Gods are "Chinese Gods" and that a concocted ur-Chinese religion distinct from Daoism predated Daoism too. Until recent years, it was admitted (in many western books on China by the way) that Daoism was the ancestral religion of China and that the Chinese Gods are Daoist Gods. I.e. the ancestral Chinese religion/Gods was interchangeable with Daoism/Daoist Gods. Suddenly and very deliberately, the split has been created (essentially declaring that ancestral Chinese didn't have any philosophical core and that Daoism is pure-philosophy + associated practices). So Daoists notice how it's being propagated that the Chinese Pantheon is distinct from Daoism, that Daoism is just a "philosophy" (this last is found to be necessary by a certain type of alien would-be dabblers in Daoism, since they want to encroach on Daoist "philosophy" and "practices" but don't want the Daoist Gods). In converse, Buddhism is projecting itself as having an equal right to the ur-Chinese religion and its pantheon by declaring that since these things "obviously" predated Daoism, it is "Chinese culture" and therefore belongs equally to Buddhism. I.e. Buddhism's goal - as elsewhere - is to strip the instrinsic Daoist "philosophy" from Chinese religion and stick Buddhism as the philosophy on Chinese religion, in order to Bauddhify Chinese religion/declare it as "equally Buddhist" as it is Daoist: that since Daoism is now declared distinct from ancestral Chinese religion, all "philosophies" in China have "equal" claim on ancestral Chinese religion, and so does Buddhism.
Buddhism always lops off the head (="philosophy", the one thing Buddhism is competing with to replace) from the body of other religions to install itself as the new head. Buddhism is *only* "philosophy", it has no Gods and no religio-culture (i.e. no unique ritual practices that are not obviously inspired by precursors in pre-existing heathen religion): that is why Buddhism inculturates everywhere, and is seen to have Chinese Gods in Daoist areas and Shinto Gods in Shinto areas and Bon influences in Tibet etc. More proof that Buddhism cares nothing about others' Gods and is not a heathenism, just a missionary religion masquerading as one.
Hindus ought to know that Daoism derives from the Daoist Gods themselves: it is *their* (the Gods') religion, meaning they are the centre of their religion and the upholders thereof, the ones who impart it. Daoist thought - perception of the Kosmos and reality - and cultivation is what the Daoist Gods teach their heathens (even today the Daoist Gods teach it first-hand to humans, by the way - sometimes the Daoist Immortals teach it). Daoist "philosophy" is inseparably associated with the Daoist Gods, the way Philosophy (i.e. of Hellenismos) is associated with Hellenismos and the Olympic Gods.
But it is always a christowestern tactic to strip philosophy and religious practices from heathenism/religions of the Gods to impound these for christianism/alien dabbling (the way christianism does with Philosophy and Vedanta/Yoga/etc), and it's a Buddhist etc tactic to separate philosophy from heathenism/religions of the Gods, only to toss the "philosophy" parts aside and replace this with Buddhism as the "philosophy" instead and inculturate on all the rest.
Christianism has a replacement god but no philosophy (that's why christians started by encroaching on Greek Mysteries and mangled these and declared these to be christian mysteries. It's also why christianism still inculturates on Platonism).
New-agey aliens* interested in Vedanta/Yoga/Sankhya/Tantra but not in Hindu Gods want just the philosophy and practices but not the Gods.
* Different from "Vedic reconstructionist" and other neo-pagan type aliens, who most definitely want to encroach on Hindu Gods. The equally concocted neo-paganism/Goddess-religion types/wiccans declare all heathenisms to be something called a "Paganism" - and even that all Goddesses are "one" etc. - and that these aliens therefore should have access to (=the right to dabble in) all religions of the world, and thus create a nonsense mix of religions. Essentially a new ageism. A blatant example of the latter:
youtube.com/watch?v=BDSu0-qDFQ8
Quote:Uploaded on Mar 14, 2007
thegic.org
Pagan Wiccan Magickal Goddess Chant.
Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Inanna (from The Burning Times - Best of Pagan Song)
Looney (American? Euro?) "Pagan" "Wiccans" pretending that they know Kali or any of the named Goddesses of Others. Or that these Goddesses care for their (inept, btw) dabbling. Well, Kali certainly doesn't.
The "chant" consists of them repeating the listed names in sequence. The sum total of wicca/neo-paganism, I suppose. And then suddenly this becomes "magickal" as in their title.
The bit that gives away (to Hindus) how the alien loons are making this up is where the loons involve Kali in their nonsense.
All alien dabbling in others' heathenism (or bad reconstruction) is - ultimately and equally - in(s)ane, but the above is more *obviously* hilarious to everyone with half a brain.
The whole "Goddess" poaching tactic is a neo-pagan routine. They like to pretend that by declaring themselves "neo-pagan/wiccan" they are conferred automatic access to/right to Other People's *ancestral* Goddesses. They pretend there is an ancient "Goddess" religion and that the Goddesses of all religions are somehow related - or even one and the same ultimately **- and form a religion of their own: a Goddess religion, which neo-paganism pretends is "ancient". Note: this is supposedly independent of the actual religions the poached Goddesses belong to. Whereas in reality Kali belongs in and presides over Hindu religion, while Demeter and Hekate and Diana similarly belong to Hellenismos, etc. Moreover, Kali is not a Goddess of a religion distinct from that of her husband and brother and the rest of the Hindu Pantheon, none of the Hindu Goddesses or Gods are of a religion separate from that of their Spouse and the other Devas. But then, neo-paganism and wicca are just looney invention. And who invited them to dabble in Hindu religion? But about 50% of the "converts" to Hindu religion - or those alleging an "interest" in Hindu religion/Gods/rituals - are neo-pagans. The give-away is always when they dabble in multiple religions or threaten some anonymous "Goddess" or start equating Hindu Goddesses with others' Goddesses. A la in that silly youtube video above. [** In contrast, the genuine Hellenes at YSEE don't even conflate their own distinct Goddesses with each other, let alone conflating Goddesses of Others with the Olympic Gods: e.g. ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=polytheism which also has a video explaining how all their Gods and Goddesses are distinct.]
An example of the alien tendency to "collect" Goddesses from all over the world for their new-agey "neo-pagan" dabbling was at an SL link I once posted on this thread concerning the Hindu Goddess known to Tamizh Hindus, Kannagi. IIRC Female alien dabblers in Theravada Buddhism made use of the but few-centuries old phenomenon of Therevada Buddhist inculturation on Hindus' Kannagi to start dabbling in Kannagi and add her to their "collection" of poached Goddesses. [Having said that, it's not just female alien dabblers - or even just lesbian wiccan covens or whatever or other fembot neopagan movements - that dabble in the concocted "Goddess religion" else the "Goddess-onlee religion". The list of perpetrators includes male wiccans/neo-pagans too.]
When aliens discover Daoist and Shinto Gods and Goddesses, they always start dabbling in these too. But it's an Alien Thing. Christo-conditioned forever, all aliens can ever be is new-age and all they can ever do is dabble.
(Also, there are all too many cases on the web of people starting their dabbling in the Vedam only to end by swearing by Hindu tantra and then jumping ship to dabble in the Daoist equivalent of Tantra. Dabbling in Daoism promises a dangerous end however :evil-grin: )
On the subject. I remember that Koenraad Elst's all-new-age following included several aliens [he seems to attract alien new-agers as much as Indian readership], one of whom called himself "Apuleius (sp?) Something". It was an alien, and its gravatar image was the Tamizh OM symbol. <- Typical alien poacher, has moved passed oryan claims on Hindu religion to neo-pagan claims, in order to poach on sacred Tamizh Hindu symbols. Clicking on the alien's handle led to his About page where it quoted some lame English translation from Kalidaasa's Kumara Sambhavam, which has absolutely nothing to do with the alien, despite its delusions of some universal Paganism. But his About quote does explain why the dabbling alien felt entitled to the Tamizh OM: because that is intimately associated with Kumaran. The section on "interests" and further pages revealed the alien is male and hosts various neo-pagan - a mish-mash of Buddhist, Hindu, Hellenistic - and of course Wiccan pages.
Meanwhile, genuine Hellenes politely but firmly disassociate themselves from all things "Neo-pagan" as seen at ysee.gr's FAQ. I'm betting Apuleius has no Greek ancestry either, as Greek Hellenes feel no need to dabble in Wicca AND Hellenismos. (That he has no Hindu ancestry was already obvious.)
The annoying thing about the whole wicca/neo-paganism fad is that neo-pagans - usually dabbling from in the US somewhere - tend to whine "persecuted" as often as christians do. They will consider they're being "persecuted" for their concocted "faith" if Hindus and other heathens were to tell them to stop encroaching on Hindu/etc Gods and practices. Yet it is actually Hindus (and Hindu Gods) and other heathens following their ancestral heatheism who are being persecuted: it's their sacred ancestral religions being messed with, diluted, and utterly *ridiculed* by being forced into some weird mix-and-match new-ageism by aliens who have no business in others' ancestral religion (i.e. people who can't even resurrect their own ancestral religion, aka people dumped by their own ancestral Gods. It's very sad, but it's obviously true - else they wouldn't be dabbling - and it's not a problem I caused: their christo-converted ancestors are to blame, no need to take it out on Hindu or Daoist etc religion therefore. Alien dabblers don't understand why heathens don't feel "positive" towards their dabbling tendencies: it's because ethnic religions consider dabbling a hostile and anti-heathen and de-sacralizing act. Daoism certainly does - their very Gods do - and traditional Hindu society still doesn't accept alien "converts". And native Americans like the L/D/Nakota already told alien dabblers - in a declaration of war no less - to get lost, and delcared new-age religion salesmen selling native religion to aliens the enemy too. I totally comprehend why. Alien dabblers nearly turned sacred native American religion into a joke/new-age-ism. And I see that happening with Hindu religion in the hands of aliens dabblers "converts" all the time, not to mention neo-pagans who dabble in multiple religions at the same time. Which would be another reason why ysee.gr's FAQ describes neo-paganism as probably being christianism in disguise. It's certainly christo-conditioned. It turns serious, sacred religions that *work* into fake new-age travesties.)
E Asians with their great ability to tear the christowest's Asiaphile tendencies to shreds (from lopsided "interracial relationships" to the western hobby of adopting/abducting children from Asia/Africa/S & C America), should really write a tome on the *racism* of alien dabblers (=christoconditioned by definition) in heathenisms and aliens' grand sense of entitlement to dabble in others' ancestral religions. It would be Da Book to read, I'm sure. It will leave Indian would-be scholars' inept "purva-paksha" treatises gathering dust on the shelves. Sigh.
Anyway, YSEE reminded me of the following comparison to be made. The parallel may be unpleasant but it's hardly unfounded.
1. ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=dt21-1
Quote:When we were assuring ourselves that the modern byzantines could not sink any lower, we witnessed the statements of the directors of the National Archaeological Museum of Athens Nikos Kaltsas and the Benaki Museum Aggelos Delivorias in the Athenian newspaper "Ta Nea" but also those of the executive director of the Onasis Center Loukas Tzilas in the internet edition of the Greek American paper "Greek News". They all made statements concerning the head of the statue of the Goddess Aphrodite that is part of the exhibit at the Onasis Center. The statue has a cross carved on its forehead, its nose is broken and there are signs of blows to its mouth and eyes. All three shamelessly stated that the christians carved the cross in order to sanctify it, and make it a part of their reality. Tzilas went as far as to say that "now Aphrodite is in the service of the church". We wonder if following their thinking, they should thank the Turks for "sanctifying" the church of Hagia Sofia in Constantinople by turning it to a mosque after whitewashing the icons. Or even the Taliban in Afghanistan that "sanctified" the giant statues of Buddha with the cannons of their tanks.
2. Now can compare the above with the following, posted by others earlier in this thread (on page 1 in fact):
[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='09 May 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1273377387' post='106279']
The nAstika tilopA from the va~Nga country is highly regarded among Tibetans. He was an aggressive subversionist of former dharma. He says in apabhraMsha:
bamhA vihNu mahesura devA | bohisattva ma karahu seva | deva ma pUjahu titya Na jAvA | devapUjAhi Na mokkha pAvA ||
Here tilopA says: bodhisattva, do not worship the deva-s brahmA, viShNu and maheshvara; do not do pUjA to deva-s do not go to tIrtha-s. One does not get mokSha by doing pUjA to deva-s. Earlier, the sthaviravAdin buddhaghosha (born a brAhmaNa in magadha) who calls upon the nAstika-s to desist from hearing the rAmAyaNa or the bhArata. Actually, this strain is an original aspect of the tAthagata-s that passed unchanged through the transition of the yAna-s. Umakant Mishra points to a li~Nga in the Soro village of Orissa that has been defaced by the carving of a nAstika dharaNi on it. So the pAShaNDa-s were ready to put these words into practice. Yet we are repeatedly told that it is the Astika-s who were the buddha-busters (to borrow a favorite term of the Mohammedan: bhut-shikhan).
manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2010/05/08/the-rant-of-tilopa/
[/quote]
Same difference.
I recall reading somewhere that in Thailand IIRC (which had a Tamizh Hindu presence before it got Bauddified) Buddhists sell Bauddhified "Shivalingams" (oxymoron) - to bauddify the remnants of the Hindu Shaiva influences in Thailand. (Apparently Nepalese Buddhists carve Buddhist symbols into Shivalingas also - a factoid I have not verified for myself, BTW.) So maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on Aphrodite being tattoed with christian crosses to "sanctify" her for christianism? Or at least not if the christian manufacturing line were to produce Aphrodite imagery with christian crosses carved into her head? Or Buddhism in E and SE Asia selling a Daoist God with the head of a pig, which he does not have, after having invented [a false clone of] him with it?
Yeah, *right*. But it's all *equally* unwelcome.
But inculturation works that way. All these instances are of a nouveau Replacement religion mangling the correct perception of the original religion, by encroaching on Gods/sacred imagery that the replacement religion never even cared for in the first place. And why? For missionary purposes onlee.
Hmmm. The bold bit below from manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/the-anti-shaiva-rants-of-the-nastika-s/
Quote:Both the bauddha and jaina nAstika-s saw shaiva-s of all hues as major competitors. It is interesting to note that despite the popularity of pA~ncharAtra tantra-s much of bauddha hate is particularly directed at the shaiva-s rather than vaiShNava-s. While shuddhodana-putra (=Buddha, Shakyamuni) was a subversionist, he cannot be described as having special hate for his Astika rivals. But his successors definitely had a considerable hate for Astika-s in general and shaiva-s in particular. In contrast, we do not see this level of directed spite and hate on the Astika side. The unidirectionality of it suggests that the nAstika-s indeed had an inferiority complex and were vigorously competing with Astika-s and did everything to absorb key elements of their new innovations.
The same phrase was echoed in page 1, post #14 - a year later in 2009 I note (but I'll put that down to obvious influence).
The bold bit is *way* too polite. It's not "inferiority complex". It's jealousy. Plain and simple.
Copycatting for inculturation purposes is not flattery. It is something missionary religions resort to when their *own* plain-vanilla religion fails to impress the laity they want to convert or when converted laity shows signs of revertibility. They realise their religion doesn't have these "features" and that these things are considered attractive by adherents of the old religion. So the missionary religions/ replacement theologies then compromise some of their principles for the purposes of their zeal and start to inculturate on the native religion - 'transforming' each 'feature' as a legitimate part of its own mythology. Eventually poaching it for all that "appeals", but only to the (utmost) extent that the replacement religion is willing to sacrifice its own features, but not beyond: so for example, christianism will not inculturate as far as adopting Hindu Gods as equivalents for Jeebus let alone as part of an extended pantheon featuring him (only when converting the Hindus do they still use the Hindu pantheon only to introduce jeebus as an addition to it). Having said that, christianism did declare Mercury and Demeter etc were Santas, sort of like how it declared that Aphrodite had been sanctified and was thus part of the christian worldview/cosmogony now. Or the case of how Greek mysteries were poached for "Christian mysteries". And so also Odysseus himself was identified with jeebus - all backwards in time, naturally: "it was all christian mystery", declared moderns in Angleterre peddling a Hellenistic-christian 'composite culture' - another oxymoron).