Inculturation: the OTHER christian conversion tactic

[Husky]

Post 4



More proof of stupidity. This time for the afore-mentioned "tamilbrahmins" site:

[quote name='Husky' date='03 February 2014 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1391443382' post='117039']Stupid new-age Indians such as at the tamilbrahmins site/forum are to blame. These last specifically discussed a year ago how they wanted to secularise Karnatic music and change its subject matter to the secular topic of love songs so it could finally have appeal to westerners (Indians always need western approval and seek western appeal) and so as to let Indian christians and islamics have a share in Karnatic music by making it "universal".[/quote]



tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11257-how-much-interest-westerners-have-carnatic-music.html



Thread topic: [color="#0000FF"]How much interest westerners have in Carnatic music?[/color]



(Note the title. And I don't mean the typical Tamizh-Indian grammatical blunder but the typical Indian pre-occupation: chasing after western approval. After all, unless western people come to adulate carnatic music, it can't be worthwhile? Nietwaar?)

kunjuppu

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To answer the title of this thread, the answer is ‘very few’. A miniscule number (to be very generous 10,000) of westerners may be interested, to various levels – from benign toleration to intense interest.



But then, even within tambram society, it is, I think, only a section of us, who like Carnatic music with the intensity propounded by some rasikas. It is the same with western classical music – only a minority, and none of them make even a fraction of the moneys made by the pop stars, let alone the popularity and name recognition.



I think the situation is the same with Hindustani music.



Ofcourse, we appreciate, anyone liking our culture. It is the normal and right thing to do. But just because a few westerners like it, we cannot assume there is intense interest in the west. Even in Toronto, with a large tambram and tamil population, it is a rare Carnatic kutcheri that garners more than 100 in the audience. That is a fact.



[color="#0000FF"]Ofcourse, modern Carnatic is synonymous with hindu religiosity. This due to I think, the trimurthis, and those who followed them, took on the same theme.[/color] Bharathiar has some exceptions, but even his songs sung to Carnatic tunes are religious in nature, like nenjukku needhi et al.



[color="#800080"](Nonsense. All Carnatic music is Hindu and this was not some innovation of the Carnatic trimurthi, because the *origins* of carnatic music is Hindoo onlee: Pan and Saamavedam are Hindoo music.

Tomorrow these nutcases will do what's been done with Yoga: they'll pretend that there was a "coup-d'etat" by Hindus at some point in time - as Elst put it for Yoga - on "secular" Carnatic music to "turn" it Hindu. And the way Rani David taught her brainwashee tambram student - dancer Anita Ratnam - that "christianity, Sangham literature and Bharatanatyam originally co-existed together" [paraphrasing from memory].

Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music are exclusively Hindoo.

But sigh. What can ya do with modern 'Tambrams'. Clearly the Gods have forsaken them.)[/color]



I read somewhere, that Hindustani music was originally religious hindu type. But with the Mughal and muslim conquest, the ragas and songs were re written to secular themes, and ragas renamed like morning, evening ragas and such. I don’t have any verification for this, but is believable. As this would have provided a career to the new muslim kings, keen on adopting indian culture, without the added baggage of religion, of which they believed they had the right path.



[color="#800080"](Uh, since when were islamic tyrants - "kings" - keen on adopting Indian culture? It's only the secular ones that did so, or a few while they were trying to woo Hindoo women into their harem.

And of course Hindustani music is originally Hindoo onlee. Everything that's not is simply owing to inculturation.)[/color]



If this indeed was done, I can envisage, the same being done to Carnatic music. All [color="#FF0000"]we need[/color] is some classy music composers and poets, in tandem, to produce [color="#FF0000"]love ragas[/color] to adi talam and anu pallavi



eh!!!

These guys' kids will probably run off with islamania and they'll be left scratching their heads on where they went wrong. (Must be the "love ragas" IMO.)



To imitate the 'tambrams' at the link (and elsewhere): "Oh my gawd, *western* people! :Gasp: :luv: :desperation: :wannabe: :giggle: :flirt:"



Unrequited love - so sweet: "Why don't you like our music? Don't worry, we can change our selves. We can make you like us: Look, we're totally ready to spit on our Hindoo ancestors and our Gods and de-Hinduise our sacred carnatic music into secular 'love ragas', all just to please you. Won't you say you love us? Don't go! Why are you running away? Where are you going? Come back!!!!!!!"



Poor western people. I mean, to be stalked by wannabe losers. Eewwww.



Indians are free to de-heathenise themselves, but they are *not* allowed to take Hindus' religio-culture away with them - out of Hindu religion. Once a person has de-Hinduised, Hindoo religio-culture is out of bounds for them. In the case of the current example: carnatic music.



Indians as they have regressed to become today *deserve* to Go The Way Of The Dodo. Should stop feeling sorry for Modern Indian "Hindus" every time something like the California Textbooks Drama comes up and they feel slighted by the west. I mean, wasn't it the same types that screeched at Rameshwaram and Ramarsethu that were going about collecting money for CAPEEM on IF? What was he called, "N3"? <- Yeah, that type.

Next time such anti-Hindu 'Hindus' whine about western persecution, Hindoos should just retort with "Awww, western people don't like you? Oh poor you."





[Note: I have the Right To Lampoon the above entities because I am

1. Ethnically Indian;

2. Tamizh

3. My ancestors are Tamizh Brahmanas

4. Am pro-heathen and pro-Hindoo (i.e. pro traditional Hindus, and anti modernist/de-heathenised losers)



And so it is that I do lampoon. Because I don't like anything anti-heathen or de-heathenising.]