Post 4/4
Also found myself agreeing often enough with several comments on this Vijayvaani page by one "shaastra sevaka". On occasion he sounded uncomfortably like an earlier/dead version of someone else. But the following and similar responses he made to Vijaya Rajiva's odd (or rather ISKCON-ist) claims concerning 'Rama vs Krishna' necessarily disproves that suspicion:
But quick someone, call down Elst etc on this poor guy - Shaastra Sevaka or whoever. He seems to still insist that Rama and Krishna are avataaras of Vishnu instead of "apotheosised human heroes". How unacceptably heathen. Has the fan brigade not hit him on the head yet? Of course, Shaastra Sevaka might turn out to be just one more subvertible entity that merely needs exposure to subversive forces before he too will de-heathenise along the usual lines (=pattern). They all do. In the end. It's become the rule. (I suspect it is naivete coupled with non-exposure rather than insubvertibility let alone first-hand knowledge that is preventing subversion of the remaining heathens. People can prove me wrong, but I have this horrid suspicion time will prove me right.)
Anyway, Vijaya Rajiva (whom Shaastra Sevaka responded to above) seems to demonstrate an amazing ability to dodge forthright questions by talking about something totally different with the air of a pseudo-scholar.
Sandhya Jain is a Jain not a Hindoo and therefore has every right to speak badly about Hindoo acharyas. (Though she must also be aware of her influence on her predominantly Hindu audience, and is clearly not innocent of it.) But it's another for Vijaya "Hindu" Rajiva to parrot Sandhya like the usual applauding angelsk-speaking public and declare that the Shankaracharya must be a fraud/be a "so-called" Shankaracharya (despite said Shankaracharya not having actually said anything un-Hindu/unVedic in the article that I can make out). IIRC Rajiva then threatened to do "research" on the Shankaracharya to "evaluate" whether he was a true Shankaracharya or not. <snip>
Now, I have no idea as to the reasons for the Shankaracharya's criticism of the Shirdi Sai Baba proliferation at this point in time. Or whether there is any political impetus behind it. Why now, why Maharasthra, are valid questions. But what he says - the grounds of his criticism - is not incorrect; at least, I can't see that it's invalid. It may be inconvenient timing, it may be inconvenient - period - but the argument itself still stands until someone can actually disprove him on logical grounds. Wish he had picked a better time and place. Too late. It may even be that the Congressis will use this incident against him to make him less popular, so that they hit two birds with one stone, getting all the advantages out of this latest drama and leaving Hindus none. Who knows.
What Hindus in Maharashtra should do is vote the BJP into power but retain only the Hindoo Gods in their temples. Gradually phase out all Shirdi Sai Baba worship in India. Educate people. Hindus have survived millennia by not including unHindus in their worship, so they won't die from this either.
If people in Maharashtra want to have one more God to turn to, there's always Dharmashaastaa who is a very Vedic God - a combination of Vishnu and Shiva - and is pan-Hindu. I've noticed people from even Pakistan listening to Samskrita stotras on him. Clearly he's irresistible. Further, his worship encourages the worship of all the Hindu Gods with stotras recited to everyone from Ganapati to Hanuman alongside invoking Ayyappa/Dharmashaastaa.
Wish that Hindus would dump all godmen (Jaggi Vasudev is a known anti-Hindu besides) and would instead return to worshipping their Gods (it's one thing to respect people, especially if they have special abilities, but Gods are something entirely different). Wish also that modern Hindus would stop swearing by the multiple (back-projected) Buddhas and Jinas/teerthankaras and stop randomly calling upon the historical Buddha/Mahavira. And that modern Hindus will stop falling for dravoodian propaganda, Buddhist/Jain/etc self-projections onto Hindu religio-history, christian subversion, islamaniac dawaganda, oryanist de-heathenisation, world-mythological equivalences etc etc. But can bang your head against the wall about modern Hindus, yet there'll only be a bump to show for the effort. So best not to bother. Acharyas can try. May turn out to be wasted effort too, for all I know, but I suppose they feel a sense of responsibility.
Also found myself agreeing often enough with several comments on this Vijayvaani page by one "shaastra sevaka". On occasion he sounded uncomfortably like an earlier/dead version of someone else. But the following and similar responses he made to Vijaya Rajiva's odd (or rather ISKCON-ist) claims concerning 'Rama vs Krishna' necessarily disproves that suspicion:
Quote:[Rajiva said:] "It is interesting that indeed if he was a Muslim he then upheld the Hindu faith. The Dwaraknath Shankaracharya's criticisms are quite baffling. Krishna was a sampoorna avatar and Rama only a partial avatar and yet both are worshipped."Rare to see modern Indians use logic these days. Usually it's more of the "I feel, I sense, my feelings are hurt" variety.
[Shaastra Sevaka said:] So much for your knowledge of shaastra. Will you tell me the exact reference from valmiki ramayana where he has been called a partial avatar? (I have read the valmiki ramayana several times, i haven't found what you claim).
[...]
[Rajiva said:] "This is all a matter of people's faith. Millions of Hindus believe in the Sai Babas and the pronouncements of one dogmatic shankarachariar does not change that."
[Shaastra Sevaka said:] You are the one trivializing the (i) concept of an avataara, (ii) the concept of an arcaavataara mUrti etc. (go and please learn about these concepts before you pontificate about someone being eligible to be "given" avatarhood etc.).
But quick someone, call down Elst etc on this poor guy - Shaastra Sevaka or whoever. He seems to still insist that Rama and Krishna are avataaras of Vishnu instead of "apotheosised human heroes". How unacceptably heathen. Has the fan brigade not hit him on the head yet? Of course, Shaastra Sevaka might turn out to be just one more subvertible entity that merely needs exposure to subversive forces before he too will de-heathenise along the usual lines (=pattern). They all do. In the end. It's become the rule. (I suspect it is naivete coupled with non-exposure rather than insubvertibility let alone first-hand knowledge that is preventing subversion of the remaining heathens. People can prove me wrong, but I have this horrid suspicion time will prove me right.)
Anyway, Vijaya Rajiva (whom Shaastra Sevaka responded to above) seems to demonstrate an amazing ability to dodge forthright questions by talking about something totally different with the air of a pseudo-scholar.
Sandhya Jain is a Jain not a Hindoo and therefore has every right to speak badly about Hindoo acharyas. (Though she must also be aware of her influence on her predominantly Hindu audience, and is clearly not innocent of it.) But it's another for Vijaya "Hindu" Rajiva to parrot Sandhya like the usual applauding angelsk-speaking public and declare that the Shankaracharya must be a fraud/be a "so-called" Shankaracharya (despite said Shankaracharya not having actually said anything un-Hindu/unVedic in the article that I can make out). IIRC Rajiva then threatened to do "research" on the Shankaracharya to "evaluate" whether he was a true Shankaracharya or not. <snip>
Now, I have no idea as to the reasons for the Shankaracharya's criticism of the Shirdi Sai Baba proliferation at this point in time. Or whether there is any political impetus behind it. Why now, why Maharasthra, are valid questions. But what he says - the grounds of his criticism - is not incorrect; at least, I can't see that it's invalid. It may be inconvenient timing, it may be inconvenient - period - but the argument itself still stands until someone can actually disprove him on logical grounds. Wish he had picked a better time and place. Too late. It may even be that the Congressis will use this incident against him to make him less popular, so that they hit two birds with one stone, getting all the advantages out of this latest drama and leaving Hindus none. Who knows.
What Hindus in Maharashtra should do is vote the BJP into power but retain only the Hindoo Gods in their temples. Gradually phase out all Shirdi Sai Baba worship in India. Educate people. Hindus have survived millennia by not including unHindus in their worship, so they won't die from this either.
If people in Maharashtra want to have one more God to turn to, there's always Dharmashaastaa who is a very Vedic God - a combination of Vishnu and Shiva - and is pan-Hindu. I've noticed people from even Pakistan listening to Samskrita stotras on him. Clearly he's irresistible. Further, his worship encourages the worship of all the Hindu Gods with stotras recited to everyone from Ganapati to Hanuman alongside invoking Ayyappa/Dharmashaastaa.
Wish that Hindus would dump all godmen (Jaggi Vasudev is a known anti-Hindu besides) and would instead return to worshipping their Gods (it's one thing to respect people, especially if they have special abilities, but Gods are something entirely different). Wish also that modern Hindus would stop swearing by the multiple (back-projected) Buddhas and Jinas/teerthankaras and stop randomly calling upon the historical Buddha/Mahavira. And that modern Hindus will stop falling for dravoodian propaganda, Buddhist/Jain/etc self-projections onto Hindu religio-history, christian subversion, islamaniac dawaganda, oryanist de-heathenisation, world-mythological equivalences etc etc. But can bang your head against the wall about modern Hindus, yet there'll only be a bump to show for the effort. So best not to bother. Acharyas can try. May turn out to be wasted effort too, for all I know, but I suppose they feel a sense of responsibility.