Post 2/2
1. Missed out on summarising what I was driving at. In case it wasn't obvious from the listing of the links themselves, here's the explicit version:
From crazy oryanist circles that even other oryansists were afraid to be seen with (his publication was considered controversial and respectable people didn't want to touch it),
Mair's AIT on China fabrications have slowly moved onto main journals (IIRC Elsevier)
and now from there, the AIT in China speculations have started making their way to the mainstream/into the public view: wikipedia. Peddled by the oryanist footsoldiers, like the unWolf, who set up wackypedia pages like unAethel did the Wuism page just to insert these things.
These things always start out innocuously. In maybe 10 or 20 years time, the Wuism page's section on Further Information will get linked "self-evidently" to Vedism or Indo-Europism/Oryanism. And every single page on Chinese religion will speak equally self-evidently about how Chinese religion's origins were in IE religion and how the present stage of Taoism is not the current stage following on from the ancient stages of the Chinese religion - notably the ancient stage that wacky (and Mair) has marked out as "Wuism" and which Mair et al desperately want to claim for IE. (Since oryanists necessarily have to hog the early stages inorder to claim everything else that came after as and when they want.)
What was done to India - oryanism invented to take over Hindu religious heritage=heathenism for alien consumption/dabbling/self-aggrandising - is going to be done to China. The aliens have set the wheels in motion already.
But Indians *would* not kill oryanism - and some feed it. Now what Hindus do to themselves - subverting their own religion and all consequences - is their business. But, if anything happens to far Asian religions (it's a domino in E/SE Asia, when Taoism falls everything else will fall) it will be because of Indian incompetence and collusion.
Chinese who are aware of the problem already hate oryanism for the racist and illegal claim to fame that it is. Other E/SE Asians will be a short distance behind, if they haven't already caught up. (Other Asians are not stupid.)
Honestly, if I was E Asian (nice dream) I would be wanting retribution over this, and Indians would be part of the target. I don't understand why they *don't* blame us. Maybe because they already know that - unlike Iranians who were happy to sign up as oryans - Hindus resisted IE to some extent by resisting AIT. Or maybe it's a matter of time and they will eventually hold Indians accountable to some degree. Can't say they wouldn't be justified. Either way, the future will definitely tell.
2. Another thing to notice in wacky's "Vedism" page is that the page is something that's IIRC at least a decade or so old - going by memory of my having inspected this page's wiki edit history when I recently visited it.
The earliest versions of the page contain a section called "Religions considered to be Vedic in origin" and trace Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism to Vedic religion. [Hinduism is also lumped with them, because the Vedicists/oryanists argument is that Hinduism is not the natural current stage of the same, living Vedic religion, but that it is a spin-off invented by the miscegenated natives who being impure could not keep Vedic religion pure, as per the so-called/self-designated "Pure Vedicists" aka alien oryanists.]
en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Historical_Vedic_religion&oldid=18385788
That was the very old version of the page.
Note that the *current* version of the wikipedia "Vedism" page peddles Ur-Shramanism. Predictably.
You can see oryanists in the west even host Jain ur-Shramanist pages. Hyper-oryan aliens since a few centuries back already subscribed to the a notion of ur-Shramanism anyway: they wanted to find a warlike and racist uber-superior/oryan religion in Vedic religion, so they are happy to donate all the innate ascetic aspects of Vedic religion to ur-Shramanist claimants. And of course, Indian nastikas increasingly never miss an opportunity to piggy back on the AIT - probably their greatest windfall in centuries - by peddling ur-Shramanism. It's not just Jains doing it though: the Buddhist Vipassana teacher in India greatly insists on ur-Shramanism and IIRC had an article where he wanted a Kanchi Shankaracharya to recognise it and went so far as to claim that the latter essentially had agreed to it in order for peace/pseudo-amicability to exist between Buddhism and Hindu religion. Sounded like emotional blackmail to me.
All of wackypedia is slowly being rewritten to refer to ur-Shramanism/to be consistent with the ur-Shramanist retelling of religio-history in India. As stated, there's a symbiotic relationship between alien oryanists and the ur-Shramanists parasite: the latter badly want to claim for themselves the very parts of Vedic religion that the former rejected as "unworthy" of "superior" (racist) oryanism.
Hindus are nowhere to be seen. I take that back. Modern Hindus are always seen swallowing ur-Shramanism piecemeal. (The entire Hindu audience of Sandhya Jain's christening - appropriate word here - of Tiruvalluvar as a Jain, her christening of Chatrapati Bharata as a Jain, etc. Then Rajeev Srinivasan's peddling of Buddhist rewriting of Hindu religio-history, other Hindus' peddling of ur-Shramanism - can see Hindus parrot that "Buddhism and Jainism existed during the IVC" - and Hindus' regular invocations of multiple Buddhas. Etc.)
Having already lost against oryanism (it won by default, not because of any truth to it, forget any proof, which it never provided), Hindus are going to lose to ur-Shramanism too. More definitely. In the former case - because aliens (obvious enemies) were the ones promoting oryanism, Hindus attempted some resistance. In the latter case, Hindus will do nothing: they will *never* say anything to displease Jains and Buddhists and will go along with backprojection of Buddhism and Jainism into ur-History (even though it's a lie) if this will make Jains/Buddhists happy and even in the absence of Buddhist and Jain presence, will gladly promote these religions as equals to their own ancestral religion, giving away one part after another of even exclusively-Vedic religion (e.g. Ramayanam) as magically being the "equal" heritage of Buddhism/Jainism. You know, *when* it comes back to bite people, surely it is deserved.
The fact that Hindus resisted oryanism but don't resist ur-Shramanism (but acquiesce to it and parrot it and applaud it) comes down to the usual stupidity of modern Hindus: they object to who is saying something (oryanism is uttered by alien oryanists) and not what is said (ur-Shramanism is allowed to creep under Hindus' skin because he other Dharmic religions/nastikas peddle it). [I expect sometime in the future, that Sikhism - having seen such a great daft Hindu reception to Buddhist and Jain attemtps at backprojection - will aim for a similar success and declare that their religion too is eternal and traces back to at least the IVC. And why not? Sounds no more preposterous than Buddhist and Jain claims to being coeval with (let alone pred-ating) Vedic religion. Plus Sikhism has already successfully backprojected that 'theologically', it never had anything to do with Hindu religion, and - particularly - it has successfully backprojected that its God never had anything to do with (let alone being identical to) a Hindu God - particularly Vishnu in Sikhism's case. At present, Sikhism worships an invisible monogawd - one that is expressly not a Hindu God - and claims that this was "always so". So claiming an "Sanatana" status - independent of origins in Hindu religion/Sanatana dharma - is just one step away: claim that Sikhism's invisible monogawd being eternal means that the religion was eternal. (QED.) A few hundred years from now, Indians will unanimously believe it, starting with Hindus.]
Modern Hindus are so hopeless. They don't even know to pick their battles (surely must be rule #1 in any war strategy manual?) They'd rather whine about distant issues like MF Hussein. But did his images ever make it into traditional Hindus houses or minds? No? Then did he matter? Only psecularists and subverted would be interested in MFH's output. No single heathen - let alone any Hindu - would go near it with a pole. (Or go near any "Hindu" that did.)
But ur-Shramanism is being peddled easily among Hindus and nowadays increasingly even by Hindus. Hindus will do nothing about that. What a horrid future modern Hindus are leaving for their kids. It's no wonder though that all Indian "Hindu" nationalist/vocalist sites tend more often to peddle the essential/ultimate oneness of "Dharmic" religions (projected by them as an identity relation or near enough), than actually know anything about Hindu religion from lifelong practice/adherence.
But then, Indian ("Hindu") nationalism requires all the Indic religions to be merged into an umbrella - India's own state religion = nationalism - and in the process, Hindu religion becomes the first and necessary sacrifice: everything that is exclusively Hindu (not to mention everything originally so) is automatically "equally" Buddhist and Jain. Nationalist vocalists will write (bad) scholarly article after another, (badly) equating Hindu claims to Hindu religion with Buddhist and Jain claims to the same. (E.g. seen in that indiafacts article on how "Ramayanam is equally Buddhist/Jain as it is Hindu".) Nationalist vocalists are great subverters of Hindus' ancestral heathenism. The first error is that they de-recognise it as an independent and real entity.
1. Missed out on summarising what I was driving at. In case it wasn't obvious from the listing of the links themselves, here's the explicit version:
From crazy oryanist circles that even other oryansists were afraid to be seen with (his publication was considered controversial and respectable people didn't want to touch it),
Mair's AIT on China fabrications have slowly moved onto main journals (IIRC Elsevier)
and now from there, the AIT in China speculations have started making their way to the mainstream/into the public view: wikipedia. Peddled by the oryanist footsoldiers, like the unWolf, who set up wackypedia pages like unAethel did the Wuism page just to insert these things.
These things always start out innocuously. In maybe 10 or 20 years time, the Wuism page's section on Further Information will get linked "self-evidently" to Vedism or Indo-Europism/Oryanism. And every single page on Chinese religion will speak equally self-evidently about how Chinese religion's origins were in IE religion and how the present stage of Taoism is not the current stage following on from the ancient stages of the Chinese religion - notably the ancient stage that wacky (and Mair) has marked out as "Wuism" and which Mair et al desperately want to claim for IE. (Since oryanists necessarily have to hog the early stages inorder to claim everything else that came after as and when they want.)
What was done to India - oryanism invented to take over Hindu religious heritage=heathenism for alien consumption/dabbling/self-aggrandising - is going to be done to China. The aliens have set the wheels in motion already.
But Indians *would* not kill oryanism - and some feed it. Now what Hindus do to themselves - subverting their own religion and all consequences - is their business. But, if anything happens to far Asian religions (it's a domino in E/SE Asia, when Taoism falls everything else will fall) it will be because of Indian incompetence and collusion.
Chinese who are aware of the problem already hate oryanism for the racist and illegal claim to fame that it is. Other E/SE Asians will be a short distance behind, if they haven't already caught up. (Other Asians are not stupid.)
Honestly, if I was E Asian (nice dream) I would be wanting retribution over this, and Indians would be part of the target. I don't understand why they *don't* blame us. Maybe because they already know that - unlike Iranians who were happy to sign up as oryans - Hindus resisted IE to some extent by resisting AIT. Or maybe it's a matter of time and they will eventually hold Indians accountable to some degree. Can't say they wouldn't be justified. Either way, the future will definitely tell.
2. Another thing to notice in wacky's "Vedism" page is that the page is something that's IIRC at least a decade or so old - going by memory of my having inspected this page's wiki edit history when I recently visited it.
The earliest versions of the page contain a section called "Religions considered to be Vedic in origin" and trace Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism to Vedic religion. [Hinduism is also lumped with them, because the Vedicists/oryanists argument is that Hinduism is not the natural current stage of the same, living Vedic religion, but that it is a spin-off invented by the miscegenated natives who being impure could not keep Vedic religion pure, as per the so-called/self-designated "Pure Vedicists" aka alien oryanists.]
en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Historical_Vedic_religion&oldid=18385788
Quote:Religions considered to be Vedic in origin
That was the very old version of the page.
Note that the *current* version of the wikipedia "Vedism" page peddles Ur-Shramanism. Predictably.
You can see oryanists in the west even host Jain ur-Shramanist pages. Hyper-oryan aliens since a few centuries back already subscribed to the a notion of ur-Shramanism anyway: they wanted to find a warlike and racist uber-superior/oryan religion in Vedic religion, so they are happy to donate all the innate ascetic aspects of Vedic religion to ur-Shramanist claimants. And of course, Indian nastikas increasingly never miss an opportunity to piggy back on the AIT - probably their greatest windfall in centuries - by peddling ur-Shramanism. It's not just Jains doing it though: the Buddhist Vipassana teacher in India greatly insists on ur-Shramanism and IIRC had an article where he wanted a Kanchi Shankaracharya to recognise it and went so far as to claim that the latter essentially had agreed to it in order for peace/pseudo-amicability to exist between Buddhism and Hindu religion. Sounded like emotional blackmail to me.
All of wackypedia is slowly being rewritten to refer to ur-Shramanism/to be consistent with the ur-Shramanist retelling of religio-history in India. As stated, there's a symbiotic relationship between alien oryanists and the ur-Shramanists parasite: the latter badly want to claim for themselves the very parts of Vedic religion that the former rejected as "unworthy" of "superior" (racist) oryanism.
Hindus are nowhere to be seen. I take that back. Modern Hindus are always seen swallowing ur-Shramanism piecemeal. (The entire Hindu audience of Sandhya Jain's christening - appropriate word here - of Tiruvalluvar as a Jain, her christening of Chatrapati Bharata as a Jain, etc. Then Rajeev Srinivasan's peddling of Buddhist rewriting of Hindu religio-history, other Hindus' peddling of ur-Shramanism - can see Hindus parrot that "Buddhism and Jainism existed during the IVC" - and Hindus' regular invocations of multiple Buddhas. Etc.)
Having already lost against oryanism (it won by default, not because of any truth to it, forget any proof, which it never provided), Hindus are going to lose to ur-Shramanism too. More definitely. In the former case - because aliens (obvious enemies) were the ones promoting oryanism, Hindus attempted some resistance. In the latter case, Hindus will do nothing: they will *never* say anything to displease Jains and Buddhists and will go along with backprojection of Buddhism and Jainism into ur-History (even though it's a lie) if this will make Jains/Buddhists happy and even in the absence of Buddhist and Jain presence, will gladly promote these religions as equals to their own ancestral religion, giving away one part after another of even exclusively-Vedic religion (e.g. Ramayanam) as magically being the "equal" heritage of Buddhism/Jainism. You know, *when* it comes back to bite people, surely it is deserved.
The fact that Hindus resisted oryanism but don't resist ur-Shramanism (but acquiesce to it and parrot it and applaud it) comes down to the usual stupidity of modern Hindus: they object to who is saying something (oryanism is uttered by alien oryanists) and not what is said (ur-Shramanism is allowed to creep under Hindus' skin because he other Dharmic religions/nastikas peddle it). [I expect sometime in the future, that Sikhism - having seen such a great daft Hindu reception to Buddhist and Jain attemtps at backprojection - will aim for a similar success and declare that their religion too is eternal and traces back to at least the IVC. And why not? Sounds no more preposterous than Buddhist and Jain claims to being coeval with (let alone pred-ating) Vedic religion. Plus Sikhism has already successfully backprojected that 'theologically', it never had anything to do with Hindu religion, and - particularly - it has successfully backprojected that its God never had anything to do with (let alone being identical to) a Hindu God - particularly Vishnu in Sikhism's case. At present, Sikhism worships an invisible monogawd - one that is expressly not a Hindu God - and claims that this was "always so". So claiming an "Sanatana" status - independent of origins in Hindu religion/Sanatana dharma - is just one step away: claim that Sikhism's invisible monogawd being eternal means that the religion was eternal. (QED.) A few hundred years from now, Indians will unanimously believe it, starting with Hindus.]
Modern Hindus are so hopeless. They don't even know to pick their battles (surely must be rule #1 in any war strategy manual?) They'd rather whine about distant issues like MF Hussein. But did his images ever make it into traditional Hindus houses or minds? No? Then did he matter? Only psecularists and subverted would be interested in MFH's output. No single heathen - let alone any Hindu - would go near it with a pole. (Or go near any "Hindu" that did.)
But ur-Shramanism is being peddled easily among Hindus and nowadays increasingly even by Hindus. Hindus will do nothing about that. What a horrid future modern Hindus are leaving for their kids. It's no wonder though that all Indian "Hindu" nationalist/vocalist sites tend more often to peddle the essential/ultimate oneness of "Dharmic" religions (projected by them as an identity relation or near enough), than actually know anything about Hindu religion from lifelong practice/adherence.
But then, Indian ("Hindu") nationalism requires all the Indic religions to be merged into an umbrella - India's own state religion = nationalism - and in the process, Hindu religion becomes the first and necessary sacrifice: everything that is exclusively Hindu (not to mention everything originally so) is automatically "equally" Buddhist and Jain. Nationalist vocalists will write (bad) scholarly article after another, (badly) equating Hindu claims to Hindu religion with Buddhist and Jain claims to the same. (E.g. seen in that indiafacts article on how "Ramayanam is equally Buddhist/Jain as it is Hindu".) Nationalist vocalists are great subverters of Hindus' ancestral heathenism. The first error is that they de-recognise it as an independent and real entity.