Post 4/?
Now for the actual supporting evidence to the points made in post #3 of this series.
1. The Gandavyuha Sutra portion of the Avatamsaka Sutra does not speak of an earthly Potalaka but a spiritual one (Buddhist dimension). Sudhana is not meant to represent a "historical" character but his journey is supposed to be a spiritual journey to find the many Bodhisattvas and Buddhas to learn from them their teachings on bodhisattvahood in stages, among which are also the insights on bodhisattvahood that Avalokiteshwara can instill.
www.chibs.edu.tw/ch_html/chbs/10/chbs1011.htm
As can be seen, the description is not of a temple with a vigraha of a deity. (And certainly not of Shabarimalai.)
It is *Hsuan-Tsang* that assumed Potalaka must be a physical/geographic place and who had pointed out a site in southern India for it (that he didn't visit himself).
Of great importance to note in the context - as it was also conveniently unmentioned by Rajeev, when he went on about Ayyappa's posture in his arguing for Buddhism - is that the Avalokiteshwara is sitting CROSS-LEGGED here as per the Avatamsaka. And The Ayyappa vigraham at Shabarimalai is specifically NOT SITTING CROSS-LEGGED. Why this is relevant: if Ayyappa's seated posture is significant (as it was to Rajeev when he chose to identify Ayyappa as a Buddhism/Avalokiteshwara because of it), then so too are the distinctions between the particular posture of Ayyappa and Avalokiteshwara as per Da Source (Avatamsaka Sutra) on Avalokiteshwara in Potalaka. No?
For context on Gandavyuha and its relation to Avatamsaka, the history of the development of Avalokiteshwara and as the source for "Potalaka" and subsequent references:
Instead of meditating on the spiritual visions the Sutra reveals, or at least searching for MajusrhI and Maitreya and Samantabhadra, some people are obsessed with some few paragraphs in the Gandavyuha of the Avatamsaka which is the source for "Potalaka" and the mythmaking surrounding it:
Most curiously of all, Lokesh Chandra attributes what he implies is an earthly Potalaka to the Avatamsaka Sutra in a sentence that has no terminating double quotes - in GoogleBooks' scan at least - so that it's hard to tell where the quote ends and where Lokesh continues:
Note how what's presented as a direct quote from the Avatamsaka-Sutra does not terminate, but segues into "is in fact a sort of earthly paradise" (which seems like a modern comment/observation besides the sentence mirroring Lokesh's intro: "Avatamsaka describes the earthly paradise... and is in fact a sort of earthly paradise.") before proceeding to start the next sentence of "Buddhabhadra in 420 AD" etc, which certainly is a modern sentence. So it's hard to make out whether his attempt at a direct quote ends after "and tanks" or not. ***
The Buddhabhadra mentioned above is I think the translator into Chinese of the Avatamsaka Sutra. The other one of that name, contemporaneous to him, is the one known as Bodhidharma (of Shaolin) and who - coincidentally - in China is often equated with KuanYin aka Da Bodhisattva (AKA Avalokiteshwara) when bodhisattva is left unqualified.
*** ADDED:
- As a matter of fact, I ended up looking up the Avatamsaka Sutra (see later post for larger excerpts) to confirm for myself.
- Turns out Lokesh's alleged direct quote from the Sutra is a semi-mangled version of what's in there.
- The bit that he has carefully missed out is the most interesting bit. See post 10 below.
* The first blockquote of this post (from the Gandavyuha section) is moreover to contain the earliest descriptions of Potalaka, later descriptions in the same section/text are even more bejewelled and unrealistic, in terms of the possibilities of actual planet earth: where jewels start to dominate, while the at least partially-natural settings in the original descriptions recede in comparison -
These are also things that Rajeev and Lokesh didn't want to mention. Even if they were to argue that the older part of the primary source text's descriptions were somewhat more natural and weren't quite so much like that of a veritable Treasure Island (and in which case there's no need to appeal to the late - 7th century CE? - Hsuan-Tsang's descriptions of his own alleged Potalaka either), then the Question still stands: why aren't the more fantastical elements in the earliest Potalaka descriptions in the Avatamsaka (Gandavyuha) presented with equal fervour: the mythical Avalokiteshwara holding court, the multitude of Bodhisattvas, not to mention the huge jewel seats for all the gathered celestials of Buddhist cosmology - making it sound like an obviously divine scene.
Of course, Hindu sciptures regularly have the Gods enthroned on bejewelled simhasanas etc, in divine palaces in divine cities (like Amman's Srinagara etc - also for meditation) that aren't set in the physical world, and with other beings of Hindoo cosmology beside them (which is where Buddhism got this style of content for sutras from). But the search for the historicity and physicality of Potalaka is a peculiarly Buddhist quest. And the identification of it in various *Hindu* sacred sites in India (and in Asian heathen sites) is moreover opportunistic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandavyuha_Sutra
Obviously a spiritual journey for Mahayana Buddhists to meditate upon. Not meant literally and not originally taken as such (when composing the sutra). Don't know why those people chasing after a Potalaka in India and in the rest of Asia aren't looking to locate in-the-flesh versions of the various Buddhas that the Sudhana character met...
And this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudhana
The middle section about the Taoist trio of *Jade* Maiden and *Golden* Youth, alongside the Taoist Jade Emperor, is obviously of Taoist import: like the *Jade* Rabbit of the Moon and *Golden* Raven of the Sun represent the Yin-Yang. Buddhism just copied the trio, replaced Jade Emperor's place with Guan Yin and the Golden JinTong's place with Sudhana and the purpose of the trio makes no sense anymore. As usual.
Now for the actual supporting evidence to the points made in post #3 of this series.
1. The Gandavyuha Sutra portion of the Avatamsaka Sutra does not speak of an earthly Potalaka but a spiritual one (Buddhist dimension). Sudhana is not meant to represent a "historical" character but his journey is supposed to be a spiritual journey to find the many Bodhisattvas and Buddhas to learn from them their teachings on bodhisattvahood in stages, among which are also the insights on bodhisattvahood that Avalokiteshwara can instill.
www.chibs.edu.tw/ch_html/chbs/10/chbs1011.htm
Quote:In the Avalokiteà âºvara chapter, Sudhanaââ¬â¢s arrival is described in the following way:^Stuff that Rajeev and Lokesh Chandra left out^ in their reference to the descriptions of Potalaka. The "primary source" of Potalaka should surely count?
atha khalu sudhanaḥ à âºreá¹£á¹ÂhidÃÂrakoââ¬Â¦anupà «rveá¹â¡a yena potalakaḥ parvatas tena-upasaá¹Ækramya potalakaÃ¡Â¹Æ parvatam abhiruhya avalokiteà âºvaraÃ¡Â¹Æ bodhisattvaÃ¡Â¹Æ parimÃÂrgan parigaveá¹£amÃÂnoââ¬â¢drakṣëd avalokiteà âºvaraÃ¡Â¹Æ bodhisattvaÃ¡Â¹Æ paà âºcimadikparvata-utsaá¹â¦ge utsasaraḥprasravaá¹â¡a-upaà âºobhite nëlataruá¹â¡akuá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸ÂalakajÃÂtamá¹âºduà âºÃÂdvalatale mahÃÂvanavivare vajraratna-à âºilÃÂyÃÂÃ¡Â¹Æ paryaá¹â¦kaÃ¡Â¹Æ baddhvàupaviá¹£á¹ÂaÃ¡Â¹Æ nÃÂnÃÂratnaà âºilÃÂ-talaniá¹£aá¹â¡Ã¡Â¹â¡a-aparimÃÂá¹â¡abodhisattvagaá¹â¡aparivá¹âºtaÃ¡Â¹Æ dharmaÃ¡Â¹Æ deà âºayamÃÂnaÃ¡Â¹Æ sarva-jagatsaá¹Ægrahaviá¹£ayaÃ¡Â¹Æ mahÃÂmaitrëmahÃÂkaruá¹â¡ÃÂmukha-udyotaÃ¡Â¹Æ nÃÂma dharmaparyÃÂyaÃ¡Â¹Æ saá¹ÆprakÃÂà âºayantam |[16]
(ââ¬ÅThen, the merchantââ¬â¢s son Sudhanaââ¬Â¦ arrived in due order at mount Potalaka, and climbing mount Potalaka he looked around and searched everywhere for the bodhisattva Avalokiteà âºvara. Finally he saw the bodhisattva Avalokiteà âºvara on a plateau on the western side of the mountain in a clearing of large woods abounding in young grass, adorned with springs and waterfalls, and surrounded by various trees. He was sitting cross-legged on a diamond rock surrounded by a multitude of bodhisattvas seated on rocks of various jewels. He was expounding the dharma-explanation called ââ¬Ëthe splendour of the door of great friendliness and great compassionââ¬â¢ belonging to the sphere of taking care of all sentient beings.ââ¬Â)[17]
As can be seen, the description is not of a temple with a vigraha of a deity. (And certainly not of Shabarimalai.)
It is *Hsuan-Tsang* that assumed Potalaka must be a physical/geographic place and who had pointed out a site in southern India for it (that he didn't visit himself).
Of great importance to note in the context - as it was also conveniently unmentioned by Rajeev, when he went on about Ayyappa's posture in his arguing for Buddhism - is that the Avalokiteshwara is sitting CROSS-LEGGED here as per the Avatamsaka. And The Ayyappa vigraham at Shabarimalai is specifically NOT SITTING CROSS-LEGGED. Why this is relevant: if Ayyappa's seated posture is significant (as it was to Rajeev when he chose to identify Ayyappa as a Buddhism/Avalokiteshwara because of it), then so too are the distinctions between the particular posture of Ayyappa and Avalokiteshwara as per Da Source (Avatamsaka Sutra) on Avalokiteshwara in Potalaka. No?
For context on Gandavyuha and its relation to Avatamsaka, the history of the development of Avalokiteshwara and as the source for "Potalaka" and subsequent references:
Quote:Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «hasà «tra,[8]ãâ¬â¬in Chinese Buddhism best known under the title Ru fajie pin (Ã¥â¦Â¥Ã¦Â³â¢Ã§â¢ÅÃ¥âÂ) as the last chapter of the voluminous Huayan jing (è¯嚴ç¶âor Avataá¹Æsakasà «tra),[9]ãâ¬â¬is, like the Lotus Sà «tra, in terms of literary form andãâ¬â¬composition a compendium of didactic religious tales, composed as such, most likely, for the purpose of presenting as completely as possible all the doctrinal issues circulating at the time in the Buddhist world of India interpreted within the new framework of the MahÃÂyÃÂna. The compositional unifying thread is the story of the merchantââ¬â¢s son Sudhana (Shancai tongziÃ¥ââ財童åÂÂ), an aspirant for the bodhisattvahood, who, following bodhisattva Mañjuà âºrëââ¬â¢s (Wenshushili pusa æââ¡Ã¦Â®Å 師åË©è©èâ©) instruction, travels round India and visits various teachers called ââ¬Ëbenevolent friendsââ¬â¢ (kalyÃÂá¹â¡amitras, shan zhishiÃ¥ââ知èÂË), fifty-three altogether, in order to ask them about the bodhisattva conduct (bodhisattvacaryÃÂ, pusa xing è©èâ©è¡Å). Each of them gives Sudhana specific instructions to contemplate, and finally these were integrated in the meditation of the vision of Maitreyaââ¬â¢s (Mile pusa å½ÅÃ¥â¹âè©èâ©) magic mansion (kà «á¹ÂagÃÂra), leading Sudhana into the realization of the totalityãâ¬â¬of the bodhisattvahood embodied in the figure of the great bodhisattva Samantabhadra (Puxian pusaæâ¢Â®Ã¨Â³Â¢Ã¨Â©èâ©).[10]Note how no one is looking for the future Buddha - Maitreya - or the other Buddha ManjushrI, or Samantabhadra, or an abode for them in India. Also note that the framing story of Sudhana is not meant as literally, physically true. It only intends to impart Mahayana Buddhist insights/truths on bodhisattvahood.
Instead of meditating on the spiritual visions the Sutra reveals, or at least searching for MajusrhI and Maitreya and Samantabhadra, some people are obsessed with some few paragraphs in the Gandavyuha of the Avatamsaka which is the source for "Potalaka" and the mythmaking surrounding it:
Quote:The list of the early literary sources containing materials on the bodhisattva Avalokiteà âºvara could, however, not be complete without the Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «hasà «tra, another early MahÃÂyÃÂna sà «tra which is, for reasons unknown to me, quite rarely cited in this connection. Even when it is mentioned then merely as one of the main sources in which the mysterious mount Potalaka, the residence of Avalokiteà âºvara is described.[6]ãâ¬â¬Much more interesting and meaningful doctrinal issues contained in the Avalokiteà âºvara chapter of the Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «ha, however, are almost completely ignored or overlooked by modern authors.
In this paper, I will introduce and analyze the content of the Avalokiteà âºvara chapter of the Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «ha. This is one of the earliest sources revealing the concept and figure of the great bodhisattva and thus its examination and the comparison with other textual sources may allow us to see the problem of the origin and meaning of the concept and figure of Avalokiteà âºvara in the early MahÃÂyÃÂna literature in a new light.
Most curiously of all, Lokesh Chandra attributes what he implies is an earthly Potalaka to the Avatamsaka Sutra in a sentence that has no terminating double quotes - in GoogleBooks' scan at least - so that it's hard to tell where the quote ends and where Lokesh continues:
Quote:[Lokesh Chandra in his book The Thousand-Armed Avalokitesvara:] The Avatamsaka Sutra describes the earthly paradise of Avalokitesvara: "Potalaka is on the sea-side in the south, it has woods, it has streams, and tanks, and is in fact a sort of earthly paradise. Buddhabhadra (A.D. 420) calls Kuan-yin mountain Kuangming or 'Brilliance', which is usually given as the rendering for Malaya, but a later translator, ShikShAnanda, transcribes the name Potalaka" (Watters 1905:2.231)
Note how what's presented as a direct quote from the Avatamsaka-Sutra does not terminate, but segues into "is in fact a sort of earthly paradise" (which seems like a modern comment/observation besides the sentence mirroring Lokesh's intro: "Avatamsaka describes the earthly paradise... and is in fact a sort of earthly paradise.") before proceeding to start the next sentence of "Buddhabhadra in 420 AD" etc, which certainly is a modern sentence. So it's hard to make out whether his attempt at a direct quote ends after "and tanks" or not. ***
The Buddhabhadra mentioned above is I think the translator into Chinese of the Avatamsaka Sutra. The other one of that name, contemporaneous to him, is the one known as Bodhidharma (of Shaolin) and who - coincidentally - in China is often equated with KuanYin aka Da Bodhisattva (AKA Avalokiteshwara) when bodhisattva is left unqualified.
*** ADDED:
- As a matter of fact, I ended up looking up the Avatamsaka Sutra (see later post for larger excerpts) to confirm for myself.
- Turns out Lokesh's alleged direct quote from the Sutra is a semi-mangled version of what's in there.
- The bit that he has carefully missed out is the most interesting bit. See post 10 below.
* The first blockquote of this post (from the Gandavyuha section) is moreover to contain the earliest descriptions of Potalaka, later descriptions in the same section/text are even more bejewelled and unrealistic, in terms of the possibilities of actual planet earth: where jewels start to dominate, while the at least partially-natural settings in the original descriptions recede in comparison -
Quote:In the verse sections, however, more details were added to the description of Avalokiteà âºvarasââ¬â¢s abode. The verses at the end of the previous Veá¹£á¹Âhila chapter mention that mount Potalaka is located ââ¬Ëin the middle of the king of stormy watersââ¬â¢ (à âºirëjalarÃÂjamadhye),[18]ãâ¬â¬an important feature which surely had a great impact on the creation of later myths and legends connecting Avalokiteà âºvaraââ¬â¢s residence with the ocean or even describing it as an island.[19]ãâ¬â¬The two following lines describe the surroundings in the mountain generally in the same way as it is done in the prose section but stressing its jewel ground: ratnÃÂmayaÃ¡Â¹Æ taruvaraÃ¡Â¹Æ kusuma-abhikërá¹â¡am udyÃÂnapuá¹£kiriá¹â¡iprasravaá¹â¡a-upapetam ||[20]ãâ¬â¬(ââ¬ÅMade of jewels, surrounded by trees, scattered with flowers, gardens, ponds and streams.ââ¬Â)
Note that this last bit sounds closest to the alleged quotation from Avatamsaka Sutra that Lokesh Chandra wanted to allude to, though he carefully with-held the "made of jewels" bit, probably because it made it all unlikely as an actual geographic place.)
In the verse section in the middle of the Avalokiteà âºvara chapter,[21]ãâ¬â¬the ocean or other kinds of ââ¬Åstormy watersââ¬Â are not mentioned any more. The abode of the bodhisattva, however, is described as a ââ¬Ëjewel mountainââ¬â¢ (ratnaparvata) and Avalokiteà âºvaraââ¬â¢s place there as a ââ¬Ëcaveââ¬â¢ (kandara) on the ââ¬Ëdiamond slope of the mountain adorned with jewelsââ¬â¢ (vajramaye giritaá¹Âe maá¹â¡iratnacitre). A list of mythological creatures such as ââ¬Ëgodsââ¬â¢ (deva), ââ¬Ëdemigodsââ¬â¢ (asura), ââ¬Ëserpent-demonsââ¬â¢ (bhujaga), ââ¬Ëcentaursââ¬â¢ (kinnara), and ââ¬Ëdemonsââ¬â¢ (raká¹£asa) is added as part of his retinue.[22]
These are also things that Rajeev and Lokesh didn't want to mention. Even if they were to argue that the older part of the primary source text's descriptions were somewhat more natural and weren't quite so much like that of a veritable Treasure Island (and in which case there's no need to appeal to the late - 7th century CE? - Hsuan-Tsang's descriptions of his own alleged Potalaka either), then the Question still stands: why aren't the more fantastical elements in the earliest Potalaka descriptions in the Avatamsaka (Gandavyuha) presented with equal fervour: the mythical Avalokiteshwara holding court, the multitude of Bodhisattvas, not to mention the huge jewel seats for all the gathered celestials of Buddhist cosmology - making it sound like an obviously divine scene.
Of course, Hindu sciptures regularly have the Gods enthroned on bejewelled simhasanas etc, in divine palaces in divine cities (like Amman's Srinagara etc - also for meditation) that aren't set in the physical world, and with other beings of Hindoo cosmology beside them (which is where Buddhism got this style of content for sutras from). But the search for the historicity and physicality of Potalaka is a peculiarly Buddhist quest. And the identification of it in various *Hindu* sacred sites in India (and in Asian heathen sites) is moreover opportunistic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandavyuha_Sutra
Quote:Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «ha[edit]
The last chapter of the Avatamsaka circulates as a separate and important text known as the Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «ha Sutra (lit. 'flower-array' or 'bouquet';[11] Ã¥â¦Â¥Ã¦Â³â¢Ã§â¢ÅÃ¥â ââ¬ËEntering the Dharma Realmââ¬â¢[12]). Considered the "climax" of the larger text,[13] this section details the pilgrimage of the youth Sudhana to various lands at the behest of the bodhisattva Mañjuà âºrë.
In his quest for enlightenment, Sudhana would converse with a diverse array of 52 kalyÃÂá¹â¡a-mittatà(wise advisors), 20 of whom are female,[11] including an enlightened prostitute named VasumitrÃÂ,[13] Gautama Buddha's wife and his mother, a queen, a princess and several goddesses. Male sages include a slave, a child, a physician, a ship's captain.[14] The antepenultimate master of Sudhana's pilgrimage is Maitreya.
The penultimate master that Sudhana visits is the Mañjuà âºrë Bodhisattva, the bodhisattva of great wisdom. Thus, one of the grandest of pilgrimages approaches its conclusion by revisiting where it began. The Gaá¹â¡Ã¡Â¸Âavyà «ha suggests that with a subtle shift of perspective we may come to see that the enlightenment that the pilgrim so fervently sought was not only with him at every stage of his journey, but before it began as wellââ¬âthat enlightenment is not something to be gained, but "something" the pilgrim never departed from.
The final master that Sudhana visits is the bodhisattva Samantabhadra, who teaches him that wisdom only exists for the sake of putting it into practice; that it is only good insofar as it benefits all living beings. Samantabhadra concludes with a prayer of aspiration to buddhahood, which is recited by those who practice according to Atià âºa's Bodhipathapradëpa, the foundation of the lamrim textual traditions of Tibetan Buddhism.
Obviously a spiritual journey for Mahayana Buddhists to meditate upon. Not meant literally and not originally taken as such (when composing the sutra). Don't know why those people chasing after a Potalaka in India and in the rest of Asia aren't looking to locate in-the-flesh versions of the various Buddhas that the Sudhana character met...
And this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudhana
Quote:Sudhana
Sudhanakumâra (simplified Chinese: Ã¥ââ财童åÂÂ; traditional Chinese: Ã¥ââ財童åÂÂ; pinyin: ShàncáitóngzÃÂ; Wadeââ¬âGiles: Shan-ts'ai-t'ung-tzu), mainly known as Sudhana and Shancai or Shancai Tongzi in Chinese, and translated as Child of Wealth, is the main protagonist in the next-to-last and longest chapter of the Avatamsaka Sutra. Sudhana appears in Buddhist, Taoist and folk stories; in most of them he is one of the acolytes of the bodhisattva Avalokitesvara (Guanyin) and is paired with Longnü (Dragon Girl). He and Longnü being depicted with Guanyin was most likely influenced by the Jade Maiden (Chinese: çŽâ°Ã¥Â¥Â³; pinyin: YùnÃÅ¡) and Golden Youth (Chinese: éâ¡âåƮ; pinyin: Jëntóng) who both appear in the iconography of the Jade Emperor. A fictionalised account of Sudhana is detailed in the classical novel Journey to the West, where Sudhana is portrayed as a villain, Red Boy, who is eventually subdued by Guanyin and becomes the bodhisattva's attendant.[1]
The middle section about the Taoist trio of *Jade* Maiden and *Golden* Youth, alongside the Taoist Jade Emperor, is obviously of Taoist import: like the *Jade* Rabbit of the Moon and *Golden* Raven of the Sun represent the Yin-Yang. Buddhism just copied the trio, replaced Jade Emperor's place with Guan Yin and the Golden JinTong's place with Sudhana and the purpose of the trio makes no sense anymore. As usual.