Removing The Sheen From Buddhism

[Husky]

Post 2/2

(Beware: this post ends angrily.)



Both the following were found through a simple web search and admit to Jain copying of the yagnyopaveetam and that it's limited only to some Jains.



The few Jains that copied the Hindoo practice apparently kept the outward form of the triple thread - though that's where the similarity ends, as Jainised meanings replaced the real purpose and meaning.



1. From Googlebooks. Interruptions in purple are mine, as usual.



The Assembly of Listeners: Jains in Society

edited by Michael Carrithers, Caroline Humphrey

p.9 and onwards

Thus, though Hindu terms, ideas and practices have exerted a tremendous influence upon Jainism, Jains have usually interpreted and applied such offerings from Hindusim according to the peculiar genius of Jain culture.



[This 'genius' is called inculturation: stealing other people's religious traditions and giving novel meanings within the new religion. Christianism calls this last "re-interpretation", which a HK commenter explained is the next stage of the missionary project that starts with inculturation. Though IMO, the real genius of Indic missionary religions is backprojection. It is DA greatest invention ever.]



It is true, for example that some Jains have adopted the sacred thread, but their use of it is quite contrary to its use among Hindus. Jains, like Hindus, take vows and fast, but their way of doing so is unmistakably Jain. The Jain religious calendar, though sharing many dates and festival periods with Hindus, has its own peculiar observances and logic.



[And similarly, Jainism - like Buddhism - plagiarised the Ramayanam etc multiple times (and inconsistently) to give Jain spins on it. Also unoriginal, and also obvious copying, but uh yet all this copying too may be magically dubbed "Jain" and "Buddhist" 'genius'. The way 'christunatyam' may be credited to christianism's genius. Inculturation on Hindoos' heathenism is inculturation. And all used it for missionary purposes: to convert Hindus and retain converts by offering the shell of their ancestral religion, and to compete with the ancestral religion. HK has articles showing jeebus poojas: like Buddhists and Jains had earlier plagiarised the practise of pooja from Hindus, now christians have plagiarised it too. Equally legit. In a couple of thousand years, christiansim too will claim it invented pooja and that Hindus had copied pooja from *christianism*. Can't wait for christo-nutters to start wearing a thread and to give it a christian meaning the way Jains copied the Hindu practice and gave it a Jain meaning. And christianism has also encroached on Hindu festivals - e.g. Onam and Pongal - and is giving them christian flavours. All it takes is time. All everything takes is time.]



Similarly, while it is true that much Jain literature, particularly in the early medieval and medieval periods, has taken over Hindu terms and ideas, these are set in a doctrinal context which is peculiar to Jains. In fact it seems most appropriate to regard Jain literate as a quite distinct sphere of discourse in which Jains address other Jains, and argue against Hindu writers. [<- *Because* Jainism like Buddhism started as a missionary religion - and still has the tendencies in it - and hence has to negate the ancestral heathenism, i.e. Hindoo heathenism.] And to do so they have developed their own original philosophical methids.



Moreover, Jain literature and its associated practices subsit upon a base of peculiarly Jain institutions. The order of Jain munis, whether Digambar or Svetambar, observe rules which clearly distinguish them from Hindu ascetics. The organisation of Jain temples, even in the south where Hindu influence has arguably been greatest [<- see, no one else is so deluded that they would claim Hindus copied temple building from Jains or from Buddhists], is quite different from the organisation of Hindu temples. [Exactly. Which is why all the Jain/Buddhist histrionics and hysterics that all (major) Hindu temples were "originally" Buddhist/Jain is only the delusion of Indian ignoramuses of Buddhist/Jain/dravoodian/psecularist/Bauddhised variety.] And even those most Hindu figures, the bhaTTAraks, 'caste gurus', participate in a distinctly Jain way in the life of the community. Indeed, if we take the Jain laity into account, there are grounds for arguing that the Jains are not just distinct in their religious organisations, but are actually better at being a community, better at organising themselves and bringing different sections of the community together for common religious and cultural purposes.

At least that last para is a qualitative assessment - where no quantifying data is given, "better" becomes a relative term that even descends into mere subjectivity - so one need not argue it. Though I do observe that after denying claims to originality in the matters mentioned in the quoteblock, claiming the community is simply "better" than Hindus at doing stuff sounds like some last ditch effort to prove superiority that way. Whatever. As long as Hindoo stuffs are not stolen for Jainism/Buddhism/christianism/bla, and due credit is given to Hindoo religion as the originator and the inculturationists as the copy-cat, I shouldn't complain I guess.



But the point was: the above admits that some (not all!) Jains copied the yagnyopaveetam from the Hindoos and not the other way around.

In Bali, Buddhism having lost, Buddhists had pushed to have favourable recognition as teachers of dharma by getting themselves called "Buddhist brahmins". Oxymoron. Then again, some catholic christians in Goa, Mangalore and Konkan also call themselves "christian brahmins", so it's all the *equally* (in)valid.





2. Jainism: The World of Conquerors

books.google.com/books?isbn=8120819381

Natubhai Shah - 2004 - ?Jainism



p.202



Pages are headed with "Popular Jainism". Presumably the section or chapter title.

After listing Jain plagiarisms of the Vedic ceremonies for naming, annaprashnam, the commencement of school, they come to the yagnyopaveetam - and the copycats didn't even bother calling it anything else (because it was originally an obvious spin-off religion from the Vedic religion, yet which now pretends it is indigenous and that Vedic religion is to be booted out of the country as alien):

The sacred thread ceremony (yajnopavit) consists of giving to a child a three stranded cotton thread, representing the three Jewels of Right Faith, Right Knowledge and Right Conduct, and this sacred thread is worn over the shoulder like a sash for the rest of their life as a constant reminder to follow the sacred path. Only few Jains observe this ceremony.

Note in the above: 1. "only a few Jains observe the ceremony". (Mostly ex-brahmin converts to Jainism? Indicating inclusion of the pracice inside Jainism at the time of conversion of these families. It is known that the practice was adopted into Jainism from Hindu religion after all.) 2. Re-interpretation: Jainised meanings given to the practice ("3 Jewels" etc). And 3. Full outward copy of Hindoos' practice otherwise: 3 threads, wearing it for life as vows to observe. C.f. how some female Kerala ex-brahmin converts to christianism rigorously observe wearing the 9 yard saree for meaningless reasons, imagining it is cultural or even that it has something to do with christianism. Same thing.



Next are mentioned the ceremony for giving dhaanam to kanyaas as part of worship of Amman. Which is the only ceremony that the page admits is "very much an influence of Hindu society". They forgot the annaprashnam, yagnyopaveetam etc all being totally and exclusively Hindoo and which were obviously copied into Jainism before Jainism was marketed as its own religion and as "original" and that Vedic religion was the copy and alien.



Similarly, ceremony to complete studies and rakshaa bandhan (complete with Jain re-interpretation) and Diwali as a "social ceremony" in Jainism.



More interesting is what seems to be the Jain ceremony on p.206. After a 1000 instances of obvious Jain plagiarism from Hindu religion (all the stuff that the Jain Minority Forum wouldn't dare to speak of, not only because it mentions the Jain clone of the Vedic God Indra and Jain mirroring of invocation of the Hindu Gods of the Hindoo countryside) comes this brilliant para:

The priest puts an offering in the sacred fire after each mantra of ghee, betelnut, grains of jav (a kind of cereal) and tal (a kind of oil seeds), and each begins with the words aum arham and ends with swaahaa.

Aka wholesale copying of the Vedic yagnya, from OM to Swaha. Tadaa.



And apparently, in Jainism they copied the circling of the fire during the wedding too, but - as usual - they change the numbering a little, to be distinct (tomorrow they will pretend to be the originals in this too and make Vedic religion out to be the plagiarising invader again):

In the key caar pheraa ceremony, the couple circles the sacred fire four times in a clockwise direction, the bride leading the first three rounds. The bride's brother presents rice grain to the bride and groom who, in turn, after each round, offer them to the priest, who makes offerings to the sacred fire, after reciting the mantras for each circumabulation.

Copying the Vedic fire. Check. Copying forms of Vedic mantras. Check. Wholesale bad imitation check. Meaningless changes to make it all meaningless. Check.



Bad Copying is that practice of missionary religions whereby they steal I mean plagiarise from the ancestral native heathenism and then make changes to important rites, rendering it all ultimately meaningless (mangling; e.g. broken homas have no meaning) and making you wonder what the point of their copying was in the first place.



Just like they plagiarised and mangled the itihaasas and other Hindu stuffs, the so-called "Shramanisms" plagiarised and mangled yagnyas too. Even as they booed at all these things when in Hindoos' hands and used for Hindoo religion: after all, to missionary religions (christianism included), Hindu practices are only objectionable in Hindu religion, but not objectionable when inculturated upon by the missionary religions.



Anyway, again: goes to show who copied whom. Everything from the sacred fire and throwing the ghee in there.

Can't wait for Ur-shramanism peddlers to next declare that all fire-sacrifice/yagnya was "originally" an ur-Shramanistic tradition copied into the Vedic religion by the invading "Oryans".'

I mean, their arguments were moronic before, and like I said: they'll have to resort to claiming all the Vedam in the end. More fool them really. Then again, missionary religions are like that onlee.





Moral: Jainism and Buddhism really should have shut up and not pretended they were original instead of the (bad/meaningless) spin-offs that they are, let alone their gal in declaring that Hindu religion was alien and that the ur-Shramanisms were indigenous and the "ancestral" religion.

Because the direction of copying is obvious. The source of originality is obvious. And the identity of the original ancestral religion of all ethnic Indians is obvious too: Hindoo=Vedic religion onlee.

So to return the favour of the missionary Indic religions who are always seen making desperate overtures to Hindus (to convert): All those of Indian ancestry anywhere in the Hindoo subcontinent are always free to *REVERT* to their ancestral Vedic religion and foreswear the swindling plagiarist religions. ("Swindle" was the word Buddhists/Jains used for Vedic religion. And yet the copycats copied Vedic religion. Making them hypocritical swindlers.)



Tomorrow stupid "Hindus" [nationalists] will pretend that because Jainism/Buddhism copied (specifically plagiarism + mangling) 1001 things in form - but not substance - from Hindu religion, that "therefore Jainism/Buddhism/Sikhism are the same as Hindu religion". Well, then by that argument, so is inculturating christianism, no? I mean, all it takes is time. Convergent or divergent evolution - does it really matter, when in the end it *looks* the same and when the appearance of similarity (form) is all that is taken into account to draw the conclusion of sameness?

They mangled Hindu religion. Like Buddhism also mangled Taoism etc. Buddhism in regions of Chinese presence can look quite Taoist - copying Taoist mantras and rites - but it isn't Taoism. It's just a meaningless copy.

And - as documented at ysee.gr - christians engraved crosses onto Aphrodite vigrahas and declared her thereby part of christian cosmology. Doesn't make it so. It is still a perversion of heathenism and of the Correct, Heathen views.

Same thing.



And so: all ethnic-Indians are welcome to dump the missionary religions and revert to Hindoo heathenism, their sole ancestral religion. Either that, or the copycat religions should relinquish all plagiarisms=inculturation (which would actually self-destruct them, because: take away Hindoo religion from the other Indic religions and practically nothing remains; nothing worthwhile at any rate. And take Taoism/Bon/Shinto/etc away too from more eastern Buddhisms and again nothing will remain of that.) Or if that is undesirable, then - although it is really too late, as the Shramanisms have repeatedly shown their true colours (to swindle) - all the nouveau Indic religions should admit to being unoriginal copycats who merely backprojected themselves and made pretences to originality and antiquity, and who shamefully dared to try to evict the native ancestral heathenism as alien, all for their pathetic petty purpose of missionising. I've had it with their bloody interminable lying. How dare all these missionary vultures parasitically copy from Hindoo religion while attempting to compete with it and denying it and trying to evict or kill it. All of which proves that the inculturation was just a ploy - that the outward similarity is a sham - and merely originated as a Means to their End of missionising on the adherents of the native religion. (Same as what Buddhist inculturation in E Asia has been for.)





The images and links in the previous post are the actual point of this spam session.

(Beware: this post ends angrily.)