Other Natural Religions

[Husky]

Post 2/3



A couple of posts back, mentioned a televised version of Hawking's written discussion on the question of 'god' in cosmology. I've now checked my DVD library, and the relevant episode is Hawking's "Did god create the universe" in his 3-part "Grand Design" documentary series (2012) for Discovery. I'd also recommend books or other materials by various physicists. There's lots out there.



About Hawking's "Did god create the universe" episode in his 3-part "Grand Design" series for Discovery:

• It is made for a general audience and speaks generally, such that children can follow along. Physicists will yawn, but the general audience will not be bored.
  
  
• For those who fear they won't understand Hawking's digitised/electronic voice: Hawking wrote the content, but most of the narration is by Cumberbatch for Hawking. Hawking just introduces a few segments (a couple of sentences here and there) with his electronic voice.
  
  
• Each episode is just 45 mins. So can easily watch the whole Grand Design series (~2 hrs 15 mins) easily. Better than wasting it on a bollywho movie, right? Leave bollywho for christoislamorons. It's all they're good for.
  
  
• Ep #2 Key to the Cosmos is IIRC on string theory, and ep #3 The Meaning of Life talks about what the purpose of life could be, having argued in ep#1 that the assumption of gawd/religion is no longer necessary. From memory, this 3rd episode even briefly touches on AI and simulation theory.
  
  

Had also mentioned that Hawking's "Did god create the universe" episode was deliberately de-railed by the christoclass virus, in order to keep the sheep brainwashed into the invisible angry mono-entity whose imagination [or rather, that of its inventors] is so limited that it can only threaten with a puerile heaven for beliebers and hell for unbelievers, but whose "Word" (=babble/koran) does NOT remotely exhibit the intelligence needed to generate our universe. [Besides, "mathematics is witchcraft" as per christianism, and so GrecoRoman mathematicians were massacred for this "crime" against the non-existent monogawd. While in the alleged 'golden age' of 'islam', only secular ex-muslims and unmuslims were scientists. And even so, much of their math and science was plagiarised from Hindus, the GrecoRomans, Chinese and Zoroastrian Persia.]

In fact, Netflix apparently has/had Hawking's "Grand Design" doco series available, but only the 2 non-offensive episodes: the "did gawd create the universe" episode was specifically not on there. Must have really disturbed AmriKKKan christians.





People who want to watch it, can get the DVD. Or do so online apparently: I just checked online and this next link seems to have it, but have to sit through adverts first (I tried playing just now, the ads were under a minute and then the actual episode started. I'm assuming the episode posted at the link is uncut and untampered, but as I didn't watch more than a few seconds past the adverts, I can't confirm):



watchdocumentary.org/watch/curiosity-episode-01-did-god-create-the-universe-video_8cc568d0e.html





And here's a review of Discovery's standalone DVD release of the 'offending' episode that explains the real problem - and how christianism is behind the de-railment. (Note that the entire "Grand Design" series DVD release in UK R2 and Australia R4 regions should contain the episode but without inclusion of the christian apologetics segment which has been exposed below).



The DVD review is for the item:

amazon.co.uk/STEPHEN-HAWKINGS-Curiosity-Create-Universe/dp/B007G6MD3I/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd



The particular review's page - which has 2 comments on it - is:

amazon.co.uk/review/RSFQI6NH6VR3D/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B007G6MD3I&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283926&store=dvd



Note that the review site is amazon *UK*, and that Discovery Channel that brought out the Grand Design series (and then stabbed Hawking in the back by attaching a christian segment at the end, to give the final word to christoislamania/creationism) is AmriKKKan. So the British comments are making fun of AmriKKKan christians (Again) - like other Europeans regularly do.

16 of 26 people found the following review helpful

1.0 out of 5 stars

Fallacious religious arguments for the existence of god included. Otherwise the DVD is quite good., 5 Aug 2012

By

Steven

This review is from: STEPHEN HAWKINGS: Curiosity Did God Create The Universe? [DVD] (DVD)

In this DVD, by Discovery Channel, Stephen Hawking gives his reasons that there be no god required to explain the existence of the universe by pointing out firstly that the mass in the universe is balanced by the negative energy of space such that this could all have come from nothing thus needing no creator and secondly that time only started with the big bang leaving no place in which a creator could have created the universe. This part of the DVD is fine.



A 20 minute discussion on the existence of god is included in the DVD including some scientists but only those who believe in god such as Paul Davies a well known science author.

(A "science author"? But not a physicist? <- The distinction *matters*, right?)

Comment is made refuting Stephens views while ignoring other reasons to believe in a lack of god such as the commonly understood view of Richard Dawkins that the god itself is too complex to have just come into being or always existed so that by the logic that demanded the existence of the god to create a complex universe you would also need an infinite number of gods each having been created by another. The god itself is attributed with the complex traits of self awareness, the cognitive ability to understand the universe, and the ability to bring the universe into being. Thus the use of god to account for the creation of the universe only puts the question of the origin of complexity back a step rather than resolving it, and further shows the existence of such a complex thing as a god to be extremely unlikely as follows.



The argument raised against Stephen's ideas involved the use of the idea of the multiverse but makes no mention of the well known idea that with an infinite number of universes in the multiverse that the apparent unlikely nature of physical laws in the universe just happening to allow for the existence of life is no longer a valid argument in favour of the need of a creator because an infinite number of such universes each with their own laws will statistically likely create some that allow for life. Nor is it mentioned that as we learn more the apparent impossibilities of various aspects of a naturally caused 'creation' become understandable as natural occurrences, such as evolution showing how complex organisms and eco-systems could exist without the need of a god creating them, and that as we learn more again, and hypothetically everything, then more again, and hypothetically everything, could be explained without the need to resort to a god. There is, however, no such explanation that would allow for the complexity of a god to have come about. I think Stephen Hawking refers to the use of god to explain the shrinking number of unexplained aspects of the universe as the "God of the gaps".



Not to mention the likely hood of a god creating such cruel eco-systems where almost all animals are torn to pieces by predators or starve when to old to hunt if they don't first die from terrible injury or one or more of god's hideous diseases.



I emailed Discovery Channel asking the following questions but they said that their data base, although containing much information, did not contain that which I had asked for. That is to say they did not answer the questions.



- was Stephen Hawking or others given opportunity to reply?



- did he know a discussion only involving those of religious beliefs that often had poor logic and failed to even mention other well known reasons for the lack of existence of god would follow?



- do you think that such a biased and poor discussion effects the credibility of the Discovery Channel?



Possibly Discovery Channel was concerned for market reasons that in a very superstitious country, such as the USA, that many people could react against such a DVD if it lacked Christian propaganda. It is also possible that such propaganda was included because of superstitious beliefs of those involved with Discovery Channel.



The inclusion of superstitious propaganda in this manner harms the credibility of both Discovery Channel and those involved in the discussion, including Paul Davies, who would have been knowledgeable of the above mentioned major floors and omissions of the arguments used for the existence of god and the apparent lack of opportunity of others to reply to criticisms made.



When I watch documentaries I want information presented to be both correct and complete so due to their lack of credibility I will never buy anything from Discovery Channel again, nor from Paul Davies.



People who are interested in the above could read from the following books concerning various aspects of religion from child molesting in the Catholic Church to the existence of god:-



The Case of the Pope: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse, by Geoffrey Robertson QC, dealing with child molesting in the Catholic Church;



The Vatican Exposed: Money, Murder, and the Mafia, by Paul L Williams, dealing with the Catholic Church's association with Hitler, Mussolini, the mafia and other similar issues;



Attack of the Theocrats: How the Religious Right Harms Us All - and what We Can Do About It, by Sean Faircloth, dealing with superstitious fanaticism in the USA,



The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins, dealing with the extremely low probability of the existence of god,



The Faith Healers, by James Randy, dealing with the methods, motivation, and harm done by faith healers,



The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution, by Richard Dawkins, dealing with the reasons to believe in evolution,



Why I am not a Muslim, by Ibn Warraq, dealing with the problems of Islam,



Root of all Evil? (DVD), by Richard Dawkins, dealing with problems of superstition,



Telling Lies for God: Reason vs Creationism, by Ian Plimer, dealing with creation science, although it's out of print and expensive on some web sites,



Deceit and Self-Deception: Fooling Yourself the Better to Fool Others, by Robert Trivers, dealing with why and how people deceive themselves over various issues,



Kepler's Witch, by James A. Connor, dealing with the work of Kepler and the religious perils he and others faced in the 1600's during the lead up to the 30 year war,



Origins of Us (DVD), presented by Dr Alice Roberts, dealing with human evolution.



(From the above list, I've only watched Roberts' "Origins of Us" documentary.)



There are of course other books on these subjects but I've included those I have at least read. I included above a book on creation science but did not include one on intelligent design as I am waiting for one to arrive called God, the Devil, and Darwin: A Critique of Intelligent Design Theory, although not having read it yet I can't say more than that it exists. There are also books on the psychology of why people maintain superstitious beliefs even in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence but I have not yet got around to any.







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Initial post: 17 Aug 2012 21:13:12 BDT



GregShineALight says:

Well the Discovery Channel is American - that speaks volumes.



I'm amazed that people can still say that they believe in 'god' - what a bunch of credulous morons miley:

(If only they were just morons. Worse still is that the rest of the world has to be stuck on the same planet/universe as the genocidal christoislamorons, or in fact, any missionary ideologies. Sigh.)



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Posted on 4 Apr 2014 01:32:35 BDT



Jose Henrique says:

Great review, congratulations! Creationists are always trying to trick people. One of them, (Ray Confort) added 50 pages of rubish creationists propaganda to the 150 edition of Charles Darwin and shortened Darwins own words. One editor of Albert Einstein in what can be said to be a postumus act of treason, added that Einstein believed in god, when in reality Einstein wrote a letter (March 24, 1954) where he said he do not believe in god. What a shame to Discovery Channel and to a bunch of cristian editors who are always trying to lie to people and create books and material full of lies. In a way this is like Iran! The objective is always to create a teocracy by tricking credulous morons and entertaining people with stories where they cannot understand the truth and think for themselves in a correct way and America need a lot of education for the people.



(Intriguing about Einstein. It's true that christians have regularly tried to claim he was promoting the christian gawd/christianism. Laughable.)

An important thing in the above: Rajeev2004 blogger "Pagan" (formerly known as "Inferno" IIRC) excerpted from a news article which contained an appeal to Paul Davies' statement for authority. Paul Davies seems to be plugging for creationism (redubbed "intelligent design" in the last decades) =christoislamoronism. IIRC, Pagan's excerpt featuring Paul Davies soundbyte even used the word 'design' in relation to an implied 'gawd' entity. That combination is usually a tell-tale sign of christianism.



Hindus have to beware not to fall for crypto-christian advertising and apologetics. US pseudo-scientific journalism is usually christianism - sneakily attempting to promote creationism - or else it is new-agey types who are scary in their own right (often dabblers in Hindu else Taoist else Buddhist religion). Hindoos must avoid such people and learn to detect their pathetic argumentation at all costs. As for the crypto-christians, they feed off of the lack of proper general knowledge among the twitter generation (short attention span, and an even more superficial familiarity with details than say those who merely read pop-sci): first, crypto-christians will plead a "creator" so generally as to sound borderline Deist, then once people take the bait, the claimants will reveal their christianism. Jesus is always introduced through the back door in such cases, it's SOP for christianism.



Also christoislamorons are very much afraid of physics and physicists - more than even of biology*, obviously, since physics covers an entire area not even touched upon by the babble-koran, and christians feel they have to make up for lost ground/invent new christo-mythos to involve the universe. (* Lots of christians - especially the anti-evolutionaries have inundated biology in recent times). In public writings, christianism has moved past apologetics on biology and onto physics, trying to de-rail that too. Hindu vocalists should be very wary of blindly chiming in with these nutcases. Also, before opening their mouth, Hindu vocalists should at least familiarise themselves with some degree of understanding on what physics says and doesn't say, in order to immunise people against appearances by sneaky christian creationism.



Christians are even trying to promote their "gawd did it" nonsense by trying to piggyback on Hindu physicists' work [which - at most - only supports *Hindoo* and Taoist cosmological explications, and specifically not the christoclass virus, nor even Buddhist or Jain cosmology for that matter]. Hindu physicists' work IS well-respected by all physicists. Christians are very dangerous and their idiocies should be shot down immediately, not unwittingly repeated over the internet by Indian nationalist bloggers and new agey Hindus.





The large quoteblock in this post and this next bit in red is the important stuff:



Watch Hawking's episode "Did god create the universe?" from his 3-part "Grand Design" series (2012). Can get the DVD. Alternatively, it seems you can watch it online at the following link, but have to sit through under a 1 minute of adverts first. (I'm assuming the episode posted at the link is uncut and untampered, but as I didn't watch more than a few seconds past the adverts, I can't confirm):



watchdocumentary.org/watch/curiosity-episode-01-did-god-create-the-universe-video_8cc568d0e.html