Post 3/4
3. indiafacts.co.in/are-indian-tribals-hindus-part-6/
contains another statement that caught my eye:
:GRRRRRRR: x infinity.
But one must be reasonable.
Talageri is not from the south clearly. Because only that could explain his terrible error.
Ayyappa is at least as much a core God to Tamil Hindoos as to Kerala Hindoos.
Repeat: He is a very prominent God in all regions that historically were associated with Tamizh regions.* Long ago, the Tamil regions included a greater area than it does now. I don't mean this as some chauvinistic threat to other southern Hindoos, but it is a fact that there are parts of Kerala that were historically associated with Tamil Hindoo kingdoms and considered culturally identical with the Tamil Hindoo regions in TN.
(*This is why DMK pretends Ayyappa is a "Tamil" God - in DMK parlance Tamil magically means "Dravidian", don't ask. But Ayyappa is a Vedic God, as all the experts who know him will testify. Specifically not a pro-Buddhist God, by the way, contrary to self-delusions by the Bauddhified. For that matter, Murugan is a God beloved to all heathen Hindoos - or ought to be. Of course, Ayyappa and Murugan are extremely fond - understatement - of Tamizh Hindoos, and Hindoos in the south more generally, because said Hindoos remain devoted to them and know the ritual practices associated with them.)
As for Ayyappa or Murugan being "tribal" Gods ... they're as much "tribal" Gods as Indran and Rudra or any God of the Vedam. Then again, all the Vedic Gods - despite being Gods of the universe - are tribal Gods of the Hindoo tribe onlee. I.e. they're pan-Hindoo Gods. Ayyappa's manifestion is localised but he is nevertheless pan-Hindoo. (Dharmashaastaa repeatedly manifested in the southern region, in Pandya country, because the Hindoos are since ancient times very attached to him there. Like a famous stotra to Ayyappa said: the local Hindoos' deep bhakti to him is what makes him repeatedly manifest among them, to grant them their hearts' desire of his company among them even in life.) The Vaidika rituals like homas for Shaastaa are no less involved than those for other Vedic Gods known throughout Bharatam. Hindoos dress in black to worship Ayyappa. This is why TN Veda brahmanas who are ancestrally associated with Shaastaa (Ayyappa) dress in black-coloured [patta or pseudo-silk] veshtis and perform the homas and pooja rituals to Shaastaa and sing the Saamaveda to him, which he factually delights in. But every ritual practise that every 'lay' Ayyappa bhakta performs is extremely Vedic: it is based on the same Hindoo cosmological reasoning/origins as the ritual practices for Murugan and Shiva. **
As I had said long ago, Ayyappa is not at all exclusive to Kerala: he is ancient in TN too and is embodied in many Hindoo temples there, all over. But there aren't just countless ancient Hindoo kovils housing DharmaShaastaa and family in TN including in villages, and once-Hindoo Tamil places in SL. I didn't want to mention this next on a non-Tamil Hindoo site, since the Bauddhified "Hindu nationalist" types that tried to kidnap the Ayyappa manifest at Shabarimalai for Buddhism may one day try to hijack the other major Ayyappa Hindoo temples for Buddhism too, if ever they learn about it (since such Bauddhified don't seem to know about these temples yet). But there is a specific set of 6 main Dharmashaasta Hindoo sites/Kovils, where each is associated with one of the 6 chakras of Kundalini pertaining to Shaastaa's body [Sahasrara has a special prominence], a la the 6 prominent Kovils of Murugan (the Aaru-Padai-Veedu) which are likewise associated with the Kundalini chakras related to Murugan's body (c.f. Shiva's subset of 6 temples that specifically pertain to Kundalini Yoga in TN, and Amman's ~52 specific temples associated with all the parts of her body). Where was I? Oh yeah, the 6 Kundalini-related Kovils/sites of Dharmashaastaa that Hindoo Ayyappa pilgrims visit, one of which is of course Shabarimalai, but the other related temples and one site are also very important to Ayyappa Bhaktas. And IIRC at least one of those is in Tamil Nadu proper, many are in modern Kerala. All six tend to be traversed in specific order by Hindoo pilgrims. Just as there are entire Tamizh language texts on how Murugan and Valli Amman are to be worshipped through Kundalini Yoga, similarly, there are similar Kundalini Yoga-related ritual practices for how to worship Ayyappa and his Wives.
The Hindoo Pandya dynasty, which was since ancient times devoted to Dharmashaastaa and other Hindoo Gods and into which dynasty Dharmashaastaa graciously took birth as a chieftain to please and protect the bhaktas, is found in what is modern Kerala and modern TN. Ayyappa - like all heathen Gods when they make regional appearances - exercises a ... hmmm, a gravity field of attraction on the Hindoo heathens. These heathens, starting from those nearest by, "fall into" Ayyappa thereupon. (The heathen Gods are factually irresistible.) This is why neighbouring states have devout Ayyappa bhaktas, and the attachment keeps spreading further still.
** Tamil Hindoos in Indonesia also still do Ayyappa homas along with the other Gods. Worship of Murugan and Ayyappa is prominent wherever Tamil Hindoos are. Historically too, back when Tamil Hindoo kingdoms were spread all over SE Asia. I've located a modern example:
dinamalar.com/nri/details.asp?id=1484&lang=en
And found proof too for the other claim I made (the following uses Tamil phonetics for Kundalini chakras, but any Hindoo can work out what the Skt equivalents are):
temple.dinamalar.com/en/procedure.php
Eventually the bauddhifiers may try to encroach on these other temples too. Lokesh Chandra might manufacture lots more drivel to Bauddhify these other Hindoo=Vedic Ayyappa sacred places, and then his idiot parrots will parrot it about. Sadly for them, the 6 sites, the rituals and the views associated with them are part of Hindoo=Vedic cosmology onlee, specifically not Buddhist/Jain/Lokayata/christian whatever. "Sorry".
And repeat: there's nothing remotely Buddhist about Ayyappa - nor does he like Buddhism :understatement: or anything Pashanda - as anyone familiar with his names would know. (Hint, hint) Only new-ageists could re-write Ayyappa as magically having Buddhist origins or even as being "equally Buddhist". <- The way christians are attempting too at this moment. (And christians have an equal right to succeed, surely? Since claims on Ayyappa made for Buddhism are no less true/are as false as those made on him for christianism.)
3. indiafacts.co.in/are-indian-tribals-hindus-part-6/
contains another statement that caught my eye:
Quote:The result is that today the most popular Hindu deities in every single part of India are originally tribal Gods: whether Ayyappa of Kerala, Murugan of Tamilnadu
:GRRRRRRR: x infinity.
But one must be reasonable.
Talageri is not from the south clearly. Because only that could explain his terrible error.
Ayyappa is at least as much a core God to Tamil Hindoos as to Kerala Hindoos.
Repeat: He is a very prominent God in all regions that historically were associated with Tamizh regions.* Long ago, the Tamil regions included a greater area than it does now. I don't mean this as some chauvinistic threat to other southern Hindoos, but it is a fact that there are parts of Kerala that were historically associated with Tamil Hindoo kingdoms and considered culturally identical with the Tamil Hindoo regions in TN.
(*This is why DMK pretends Ayyappa is a "Tamil" God - in DMK parlance Tamil magically means "Dravidian", don't ask. But Ayyappa is a Vedic God, as all the experts who know him will testify. Specifically not a pro-Buddhist God, by the way, contrary to self-delusions by the Bauddhified. For that matter, Murugan is a God beloved to all heathen Hindoos - or ought to be. Of course, Ayyappa and Murugan are extremely fond - understatement - of Tamizh Hindoos, and Hindoos in the south more generally, because said Hindoos remain devoted to them and know the ritual practices associated with them.)
As for Ayyappa or Murugan being "tribal" Gods ... they're as much "tribal" Gods as Indran and Rudra or any God of the Vedam. Then again, all the Vedic Gods - despite being Gods of the universe - are tribal Gods of the Hindoo tribe onlee. I.e. they're pan-Hindoo Gods. Ayyappa's manifestion is localised but he is nevertheless pan-Hindoo. (Dharmashaastaa repeatedly manifested in the southern region, in Pandya country, because the Hindoos are since ancient times very attached to him there. Like a famous stotra to Ayyappa said: the local Hindoos' deep bhakti to him is what makes him repeatedly manifest among them, to grant them their hearts' desire of his company among them even in life.) The Vaidika rituals like homas for Shaastaa are no less involved than those for other Vedic Gods known throughout Bharatam. Hindoos dress in black to worship Ayyappa. This is why TN Veda brahmanas who are ancestrally associated with Shaastaa (Ayyappa) dress in black-coloured [patta or pseudo-silk] veshtis and perform the homas and pooja rituals to Shaastaa and sing the Saamaveda to him, which he factually delights in. But every ritual practise that every 'lay' Ayyappa bhakta performs is extremely Vedic: it is based on the same Hindoo cosmological reasoning/origins as the ritual practices for Murugan and Shiva. **
As I had said long ago, Ayyappa is not at all exclusive to Kerala: he is ancient in TN too and is embodied in many Hindoo temples there, all over. But there aren't just countless ancient Hindoo kovils housing DharmaShaastaa and family in TN including in villages, and once-Hindoo Tamil places in SL. I didn't want to mention this next on a non-Tamil Hindoo site, since the Bauddhified "Hindu nationalist" types that tried to kidnap the Ayyappa manifest at Shabarimalai for Buddhism may one day try to hijack the other major Ayyappa Hindoo temples for Buddhism too, if ever they learn about it (since such Bauddhified don't seem to know about these temples yet). But there is a specific set of 6 main Dharmashaasta Hindoo sites/Kovils, where each is associated with one of the 6 chakras of Kundalini pertaining to Shaastaa's body [Sahasrara has a special prominence], a la the 6 prominent Kovils of Murugan (the Aaru-Padai-Veedu) which are likewise associated with the Kundalini chakras related to Murugan's body (c.f. Shiva's subset of 6 temples that specifically pertain to Kundalini Yoga in TN, and Amman's ~52 specific temples associated with all the parts of her body). Where was I? Oh yeah, the 6 Kundalini-related Kovils/sites of Dharmashaastaa that Hindoo Ayyappa pilgrims visit, one of which is of course Shabarimalai, but the other related temples and one site are also very important to Ayyappa Bhaktas. And IIRC at least one of those is in Tamil Nadu proper, many are in modern Kerala. All six tend to be traversed in specific order by Hindoo pilgrims. Just as there are entire Tamizh language texts on how Murugan and Valli Amman are to be worshipped through Kundalini Yoga, similarly, there are similar Kundalini Yoga-related ritual practices for how to worship Ayyappa and his Wives.
The Hindoo Pandya dynasty, which was since ancient times devoted to Dharmashaastaa and other Hindoo Gods and into which dynasty Dharmashaastaa graciously took birth as a chieftain to please and protect the bhaktas, is found in what is modern Kerala and modern TN. Ayyappa - like all heathen Gods when they make regional appearances - exercises a ... hmmm, a gravity field of attraction on the Hindoo heathens. These heathens, starting from those nearest by, "fall into" Ayyappa thereupon. (The heathen Gods are factually irresistible.) This is why neighbouring states have devout Ayyappa bhaktas, and the attachment keeps spreading further still.
** Tamil Hindoos in Indonesia also still do Ayyappa homas along with the other Gods. Worship of Murugan and Ayyappa is prominent wherever Tamil Hindoos are. Historically too, back when Tamil Hindoo kingdoms were spread all over SE Asia. I've located a modern example:
dinamalar.com/nri/details.asp?id=1484&lang=en
Quote:Jakarta : Nov 20th Ayyappan annual pooja celebrated by Jakarta Friends group in Indonesia. Ayyappan Pooja has been conducted for three days 14th Nov 2010, 16th Nov 2010 and 17th Nov 2010. 14th nov 2010 it started with Ganapath Homam followed by mrityunjaya homam and abishagam and alangaram to Sri Ganapathy, Siva and Sri Ayyappan. 16th Nov 2010 started with Vilaku Pooja based on Lalitha sahasranamam and Devi Bhagavadam parayanam. 17th started with Sastha Homam, followed by maha abishagam to Ayyappan , 18 step pooja and bajans. The event was fully filled with Bakthi and entire city and hearts of the Indians were filled with divine bakthi.Typical Hindoo heathenism. Even if one consigns it to "merely" being Tamil Hindoo heathenism (though it is actually all-southern Hindoo heathenism, and - once upon a time at least - it was all-pan-Hindoo heathenism actually), it is still Not to be confused with the modern "Hindu means anything and anyone" routine.
And found proof too for the other claim I made (the following uses Tamil phonetics for Kundalini chakras, but any Hindoo can work out what the Skt equivalents are):
temple.dinamalar.com/en/procedure.php
Quote:Vishvam in Sanskrit means World-Universe. It has six parts beginning from the sitting part of the human body to head at the top. So some parts of the world âââ‰â¬Å in this context India, are attributed to these six parts viz. Mooladhara, Swathishtana, Manipooraga, Anagadha, Vishuddhi, Aagna, Sahasrara or Bhrammarandra. Every human body too has this aspect and those enlightened in the philosophy undertake some necessary spiritual exercises to take the power (Kundalini) to the head from the sitting part. Great and holy places and shrines represent these Chakras. This is an elaborate philosoly which only great scholars can handle and explain.
For Lord Aiyappa Mooladhara are His legs, Swathishtana the waist, Manipooraga the belly, Anagatham the private part, Vishuddhi the mind, Aagna the back neck and Brahmmarandra the head. For Shiva Kshetras, Mooladhara is Tiruvarur, Swathishtana is Tiruvanaikaval, Manipooraga is Tiruvannamalai, Anagatham is Chidambaram, Vishuddhi is Kalahasthi. Aagna is Varanasi-Kasi and Brahmmarandram is Kailash.
(^Hmmm, that list has a large overlap with Tamizh Hindoos' panchabhoota kshetras of Shiva temples...)
Similarly, for Lord Aiyappa, Mooladhara is the Sori Muthian temple in Papanasam, Swathishtana is Achankoil, Manipooragam is Ariyangavu, Anagatha is Kulathupuzha, Vishuddi is Pandalam, Aagna is Sabarimala and the Brahmmarandra (Sahasrara as per the page) is Kanthamalai**. The first temple for Aiyappan is the Sorimuthian temple in Papanasam according to this theory.
(** Ayyappa's Kanthamalai - at the sahasrara - is a physical sacred site that is a gateway to the Beyond: apparently there's no physical temple there, though the site is part of the worship to Ayyappa. The others listed are physical Hindoo temples to the Vedic God Ayyappa/Dharmashaastaa. Sorimuthian at least is in Tamilnadu, most or all of the others are in modern Kerala as far as I can work out, but in places which were once considered part of a larger culturally-Tamil region, which is why these sites are not just part of Kerala Hindoos' Ayyappa yatras but remain part of Tamil Hindoos' Ayyappa yatras too.)
Dharma Sastha graces here in the name of Sorimuthu Aiyanar. This was alo in the midst of dark jungles in the Pothigai hills housing wild animals. River Tambiraparani flows close by. On the Aadi new moon day in July-August, huge number of devotes gather here to perform Tarpan to their ancestors and worship Lord Aiyappa for relief from sins.
Eventually the bauddhifiers may try to encroach on these other temples too. Lokesh Chandra might manufacture lots more drivel to Bauddhify these other Hindoo=Vedic Ayyappa sacred places, and then his idiot parrots will parrot it about. Sadly for them, the 6 sites, the rituals and the views associated with them are part of Hindoo=Vedic cosmology onlee, specifically not Buddhist/Jain/Lokayata/christian whatever. "Sorry".
And repeat: there's nothing remotely Buddhist about Ayyappa - nor does he like Buddhism :understatement: or anything Pashanda - as anyone familiar with his names would know. (Hint, hint) Only new-ageists could re-write Ayyappa as magically having Buddhist origins or even as being "equally Buddhist". <- The way christians are attempting too at this moment. (And christians have an equal right to succeed, surely? Since claims on Ayyappa made for Buddhism are no less true/are as false as those made on him for christianism.)