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Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (3rd Bin)
Directly related to posts 151 - 157 (158) on the previous page.



newindianexpress.com/prabhu_chawla/columns/Sai-Baba-Took-the-Name-of-Allah.-He-Said-no-to-Ganga-Snaan/2014/07/07/article2319148.ece

Quote:"Sai Baba Took the Name of 'Allah'. He Said no to Ganga Snaan" By Prabhu Chawla

Published: 07th July 2014 07:27 PM

Last Updated: 07th July 2014 07:27 PM



Swami Shree Swaroopanand Saraswati talks to the New Indian Express Editorial Director Prabhu Chawla on his objections to the worship of Sai Baba, the Ram Temple, the scrapping of Article 370, and the promises made by PM Narendra Modi on Sachchi Baat on News X.



PC: Why did you raise the question on the worship of Sai Baba?



SS: We have been raising the issue for long. But the media wasn’t giving it attention. This time they have given it attention. We really have been saying this (for long).



PC: When did you last raise the issue?



SS: We had raised it during my visit to Mumbai.




PC: Did you say that people should stop worshipping Sai Baba?



SS: We believe in what AdiShankaracharyahad said – he had said that Shiva, Shakti, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Surya should be worshipped in the temples. They all are one in Brahma Roop.



PC: What about the 24 avatars?



SS: There are 24 avatars of Vishnu. For Shatki there are 10 MahaVidya and NauDurgas. The same way there are many avatars of Ganesh and Shiv.



PC: There are 33 crore deities in the Sanatan Dharma. Aren’t people free to worship the deity they want to?



SS: There are yantra,mantra and the method of worship related to the deities. The reward or fruit of Karma comes from the Lord. Sri Krishna has said in the Geeta that “I am the one who gives the worshippers of other Gods the fruit of their worship and devotion.”



PC: But you raised the question….



SS: Krishna in BhagvatGeeta says, “I am the ‘Avinashi’. Main sab praniyonkaishwarhun.Tab bhi main apniSachchinandRachnaprakritikabinatyagkiye hue apniyogmaya se avatarletahun.”



PC: Were Ram and Krishna not born? Is being born of Ram from Kaushalya mere imagination?



SS: It’s written in the Ramayana, ‘BhayPrakatKripala, DeenDayala…”Tulsidasji says in Ramayana, “Ram prakat hue, he wasn’t born out of Kaushalya.” Coming to Krishna, he was the Lord.He took an avatar out of his own wish.



PC: Has your raising the issue on Sai Baba’s worship divided the Hindus?



SS: We are not dividing the Hindus. People of the Hindu society who consider themselves part of the SanatanDharm were drifting. They were worshipping a man who was, by birth and deeds, a Muslim.




PC: Where is it written?



SS: It is written in their granths (holy books). I can show it to you.



PC: Is it written in the granthsthat he was born in a Muslim family?



SS: Yes. His devotees say it in his aarati.



PC:His devotees worship him. He never asked anyone to worship him. People considerShankaracharya God. You never asked people to address you as God.



SS:I would never ask devotees to establish my statue at a temple. Why are people doing what he hasn’t asked them to? A Sikh man told me yesterday, that Guru Nanak has saidthat he serves the Lord and that, he is here to see the world,people who address him as the “Lord” will be consigned to hell. There is a difference between God and Guru. A Guru is the one who guides us towards the devotion to the Lord,the one who makes us relate with the Lord. He is not the guru if he starts addressing himself as the “Lord”. In the SanatanDharm, we believe that the Saints and the Mahatamasshow us the path towards the Lord, and they direct us towards the worship of Lord. People are worshipping a person who never took the name of anyone but “Allah”, the one who said no to Ganga Snaan. People have made a God out him.



PC: You accepted Gautam Buddha as Lord.



SS: No. They don’t consider themselves part of the Sanatan Dharma.



PC: What about the Jains?



SS: Jains have 24 Teerthankars. They can’t consider Sai Baba the 25Teerthankar.



PC: Sikhs worship their Gurus.



SS: Yes. They do. We have no issues with that. I am referring to people of my religion. In our religion,
it is said that you would be accepted by the Lord whom you remember in your last moments. Hence, be devoted to Krishna, to Ram.



(Swami Swaroopanand clearly distinguishes between the other Indic religions and Hindus' religion aka the Sanatana Dharma. Actually, there's a lot more that can be inferred about his views from the above statements as well.

Interviewer: "You accepted Gautam Buddha as Lord." Swami: "No." Classic.)




PC: You have issues with the size of Sai Baba’s statue as well.



SS: We are being duped. Sri Krishna showed Arjun his viraatroop. They are showing Sai Baba’s viraatroop and not Sri Krishna’s.



PC: Do you want to say that there should be no other idol in a Sai Baba temple?



SS: There is no need for it.



PC: But there are temples dedicated to certain deities where the idols of other deities are much smaller in size.



SS: It doesn’t matter in that case. We are talking about the statues and idols of a person claiming to be God. He is showing our deities smaller in size. He shows Lord Ganeshaseated in his feet.



PC: But does he show Lord Ram in his feet?



SS: Such images are objectionable.



PC: Do you feel that the worship of Sai Baba should stop?



SS: Yes.
The people from Puri and the society are supporting us.



PC: Will you convince the people of the Sanatan Dharma on this issue?



SS: Yes. I am doing that.



PC: Has the Ram Temple issue taken a back seat?



SS: The issue and path of Ram Temple will be pursued once the building of new Sai Baba temples is stopped.



PC: But you played a role in the laying of the Ram Mandirfoundation.Buta Singh was present. The matter became controversial later. The building of the Temple hasn’t begun.



SS: The matter was in the High Court. We disputed on the subject for 45 days in the court. Our advocate proved it that Mughal emperor Babar never came to the land, thatit has been Ram Janmabhumi since the beginning.



PC: Your critics say that you reflect the views of the Congress.



SS:You are calling me a Congressman. I will answer this. When TR Balu was in the Congress, former PM Manmohan Singh had said that Ram Setu is a symbol of the victory over the Aryas. We objected to it. The matter reached the court. We said that the Setu shouldn’t be broken. The central government gave the affidavit that there is no historical evidence to establish the fact that the Setu was built by Ram.



PC: They made changes to it.



SS:That was because I objected to it. Had I been a Congressman, I wouldn’t object to it.




PC: You criticisedUma Bhartiji. You said that she is a Sai Baba devotee.



SS: She said that it’s a personal matter. It was said that there is devotion towards the parents. How can we stop that? We had said that we can’t let it be established as the parental faith and devotion of the other people. They are establishing those statues instead of the deities’ in the temples. We said that there are people who haven’t gone to worship Sai Baba. Why does one need Sai Baba if the Ganga, their Krishna, Ram and deities accept them? We don’t need them. They need us.



PC: What about the Sai Baba of Puttaparthi?



SS: The guru of Uma Bharti, he gave me a telephone call. He said that he agrees with me completely. Her guru agrees with me.



PC: Has he supported your views on Sai Baba or your views on Uma Bharti?



SS:He has supported my views on Sai Baba.



PC: Will everyone protest on this issue?



SS: Yes. The core issue is that if we are occupied with the devotion towards Sai Baba and his temples, how will people have the devotion for the Ram Temple?



PC: What is your agenda?



SS: Our agenda is to increase and strengthen people’s faith and devotion in the deities of the (Sanatan Dharma).
People who are talking about Sai Babaare actually not devoted to him. They are occupied with their ambitions.



PC: Is it a conspiracy against the Hindu religion?



SS: Yes.



PC: You also made statements on the impact ofWesternisation on our society.



SS: Our sisters and mothers are being ill-treated. They are being raped despite the tough laws. Alcoholism and drugs are the core issues. The youth is falling into the trap of alcoholism and drugs. They are not in their senses. They don’t realise what they are doing. In Kottayam in Kerala, a man allegedly assaulted his mother in the state of intoxication. People should get alcohol and drug rehabilitation. The supply of drugs from abroad should stop. The sale of alcohol should stop.Drugs are being sold outside schools. That should stop. In China, there was a movement against drugs. The dictatorialcommunist rule in China stopped the use of drugs. There should a movement against drugs and alcoholism in India. China curbed the use of drugs. China encouraged the long hours of hard work among people. People in our country don’t want to work hard. The country will develop only through hard work and by stopping the use of drugs and alcohol.



PC: Did the Hindus of the country consolidate their vote for Modi?



SS: We had said before the polls that we want a “Majboot” (strong) and not “Majboor” (weak) government. We have got a strong government.



PC: Will he fulfil all the promises made?



SS: He must.



PC: What do you think?



SS: It’s a test. If he scraps Article 370, if herenews the free flow of a clean Ganga, if he builds the Ram Temple, people will appreciate him.



PC: Until when will you wait?



SS: We will see. I will open my mouth when I need to. But let me tell you, I am not a Modi critic.



PC: What are your expectations from Modi?



SS: People have trusted him.



PC: Should he make a Hindu Rashtra?



SS: I am not talking about that. He must fulfil his promises. Article 370 should be scrapped. The Kahmiris will benefit from it. They will be accepted in India. Otherwise, they will be limited to …




PC: But the RSS talks about making a Hindu Rashtra. Do you agree with them?



SS: We want a Ram Rajya. We don’t want HinduRashtra. We are people of principles.



PC: Thanks for coming to our studio.



SS: Thanks.



In the above, the Swami

- doesn't seem to be against Modi at all (contrary to insinuations), but was being cautiously optimistic that Modi will do right regarding Hindu concerns and national concerns

- doesn't seem to conspire against other Hindu Gods in favour of Rama and Krishna exclusively, and besides repeating Adi Shankara with "Shiva, Shakti, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Surya", he also mentions Ganga:

"Why does one need Sai Baba if the Ganga, their Krishna, Ram and deities accept them?"

(BTW, there is a Gangaashtakam ascribed to Shankara BP.)



So again: what's the great 'evil' conspiracy that the Swami was supposedly plotting against other Hindu Gods - as alleged by Sandhya Jain and her thoughtless, brainless Hindu parrots?

Sandhya Jain can get away with badmouthing a Hindoo acharya of an established lineage who is innocent of the insinuations made against him. There are no repercussions to her falsely accusing him, casting aspersions about him and brainwashing others on the matter. Because she's a Jain. There's no remote expectation that she has to have at least some allegiance to him - to give him the benefit of doubt - and that she ought to first try to find if there's anything that will exhonerate him from suspicion.



But her Hindu parrots and sycophants in the matter can't get out of the hole they climbed in, despite the crimes on the surface being the same as that of Jain. Because they claim to be Hindus. There's a price to pay for treachery. And the wonderful thing is that I don't even need to go around collecting it. Because moronism brings its own rewards, in time. And it is not merely to live with the knowledge that they were utterly, totally, hideously wrong about something rather important. But to live with the knowledge that there are far heavier consequences to their thoughtless idiocy. And that they *will* feel it in themselves. (People didn't think they'd get away unaffected by badmouthing random innocent individuals, let alone merely those Hindoos trying to protect dharma from subversionist pollution, let alone acharyas working for Hindoos benefit?)



The real moral of all major classes of treachery against heathenism is: think before you take a public position against your ancestral heathen tradition and before taunting other Hindus who stick to tradition or trying to brainwash other Hindus against tradition, because there is NO way back after taking the anti-traditional position if you find you were wrong "after all". (And it's very easy to turn out to be wrong after all. Since, at a minimum, tradition has time on its side: time enough to have been challenged before. In other cases, tradition further has "It Works" on its side: i.e. proven by generations over time. I speak of tradition in heathenisms, not in missionary religions.)



I personally think the No Backpeddling rule should be enforced socially too. I mean, why should the Hindoo community at large have to continue to stand for dangerous nonsense from backstabbers/subvertibles? Also, instant ostracisation from ancestral heathenism - "you're now free to join any other religion, all except remaining in Hindoo-dom, but remember: No Parasiting on *anything* Hindoo hereafter" - will also serve as a warning to other "Hindus" to not advocate anti-traditional positions so easily/so fast/so brainlessly, but to deeply think through what they're doing and to make the choice to proceed very consciously, so as to be ready to live with the consequences of being jettisoned out of heathenism if they turn out to be wrong.



The reason for so much subversionist, de-heathenising, even anti-Hindu lies being readily peddled by "Hindus" (and all over the internet) is because they think there are no consequences to their damnable hobby of lying and speculating and insinuating against Hindu religion on a whim. That is, they think 'No Harm Done' to their own interests if they find they were mistaken. And so they are ready to peddle dangerous subversions with no second thought given to the matter, as they do not worry about the consequences, not being able to imagine any adverse fallouts for themselves. But people are motivated by self-interest. So were Hindoos as a whole to make it known that backpeddling will not be tolerated and error will result in being banned from Hindoo-dom, then I can guarantee that the number of "Hindus" peddling subversionist anti-Hindu nonsense will drop drastically. Certainly, the number that will assert with assumed know-it-all-ness will plummet. And when they cease to assert with that pathetic aura of authority donned only by the dangerous, they will admit to Mere Speculation. And when they admit to speculation, their opinions will be recognised by the public as Mere Speculation and hence not taken seriously.



So every time some "Hindu" claims something subversionist against heathen tradition, Hindoos would do well to make them aware that they've entered into a serious matter (though whether Hindoos choose to warn them or not, the consequences still hold): "Remember this moment. You make that choice/push that statement, you make it for all time. No backpeddling if you ever find you're wrong and have falsely influenced/subverted others: which means you agree to then bow out gracefully from Hindoo heathenism, never to dabble in it again. So. Knowing this, you're now free to re-iterate the claim. Let's hear it again then." Just a gentle reminder that there are repercussions to consider and to therefore not embark lightly onto subversions.





1. On these statements from the above:



Quote:SS: There are 24 avatars of Vishnu. For Shatki there are 10 MahaVidya and NauDurgas. The same way there are many avatars of Ganesh and Shiv.



Shiva's manifestations are not strictly "avataaras". Well, Tamil Shaiva Hindoos seem to argue that Shiva has no avataras in that sense. (Or maybe it depends on the meaning of the word? Still, Dasha mahavidyas, saptamatrukas, navadurgas, Shodashi nityas, ashtabhairavas, ekadasha Rudras etc etc all seem more like the Set of 4 Vishnu forms, rather than like the sequence of avataaras of Vishnu. But Ayyappa for example is an avataaram of Dharmashaastaa in the same sense as Vishnu's avataaras.) Whatever the word, Shiva doesn't usually tend to first appear in baby form, grow up and then do whatever was the plan 'all along'/the purpose for coming when the time is ripe. Instead, Shiva just... appears. Actually, quite like a Deus-ex-machina. (What an appropriate term.) So more like the Narachimmam avataaram of Vishnu that way. Shiva's manifestations tend to be called "Shiva moorties" in TN, as far as I'm aware. E.g. the cuddly Kaarunya Moorti of Shiva: he came in the form of a Varaaham in response to a bunch of hungry wild baby piglets in a forest, who were desperately calling out to their missing mother. She could not hear them anymore IIRC, whereas he did, of course, and so he instantly came in her stead and looked after them as their parent. But then, he is the Divine Father of all ethnic Hindoos after all. And just as when a hungry baby Tirugnyaanasambandhar had called out "Amma Appa" and was answered by his Divine Amma-Appa and was fed by one, the piglets similarly called out - in their own style of 'speech' - to their parent, and were thus similarly instantly answered by the over-arching Parent.

But goes to show that not all the manifestations of the Hindoo Gods occur among humans: a great many happen among Hindoo animals, not all of which appearances are noticed by Hindoo humans, or else not made widely famous among them. But the human Hindoos did notice this particular case. Consequently, this form of Shiva is worshipped among Hindoo humans too now. There is a famous vigraham of the Kaarunya Moorti (Shiva as a varaaham) carrying the numerous piglets on both sides in a very famous Kovil.





2. The interviewer asked:



Quote:PC: There are 33 crore deities in the Sanatan Dharma. Aren’t people free to worship the deity they want to?



How is this even an argument? The set of 33 koti Vedic Gods do NOT include christoislamic entities, let alone christoislamic humans. It doesn't even include beings of other Indic cosmologies, like the multiple Buddhas that Buddhism invented later and which only exist in Buddhist cosmology, etc. In fact, contrary to how my brain may at times choose to operate, the set of 33 koti Hindoo Gods is not likely to include the pantheons of other heathen cosmologies like the 8 million Shinto Kami, the huge number of Taoist Shen, the n thousand Korean Shin, the Olympic Gods, the Aesir and Vanir etc etc. And yet those are all *real* Gods.

So why on earth would some islamic human be in the set of 33 crore Hindoo Gods?

People are free to worship whatever, but worshipping something christoislamic can't be called Hindu religion nor even heathenism.







And the news was:



newindianexpress.com/prabhu_chawla/columns/Sai-Baba-Took-the-Name-of-Allah.-He-Said-no-to-Ganga-Snaan/2014/07/07/article2319148.ece

Quote:"Sai Baba Took the Name of 'Allah'. He Said no to Ganga Snaan" By Prabhu Chawla

Published: 07th July 2014 07:27 PM



Swami Shree Swaroopanand Saraswati talks to the New Indian Express Editorial Director Prabhu Chawla on his objections to the worship of Sai Baba, the Ram Temple, the scrapping of Article 370, and the promises made by PM Narendra Modi on Sachchi Baat on News X.



The contents of this old article show that Swami Swaroopananda was unfairly (malevolently?) maligned by people pretending to have Hindu interests at heart (and certainly by people who think they know better than him), and which shows that his position on Shirdi Sai Baba is not novel, not anti-Hindu, but in keeping with Hindu tradition. And his views on Rama and Krishna is not to the exclusion of other Hindu Gods. Also, he does not seem to have an issue with Modi. Rather, he seemed interested - in a positive sense - about whether Modi will bring necessary changes.
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Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (3rd Bin) - by Guest - 08-01-2005, 02:34 AM
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