03-20-2005, 05:39 AM
[Admin - OLD Thread is at http://indiaforumarchives.blogspot.com/200...nd-kashmir.html]
Dear Yogi,
I do not understand why the spread of Christianity is regarded with such
suspicion and hostility...nor why over-zealous missionaries in Kashmir are being blamed. The book you cited is doomed to confuse everyone and ultimately fail because it treats Kashmir as a unique situation, when, in fact, it's the entire Islamic world that is looking inward and making hard decisions about Islam as a viable religion for the future of the world..
In the Sudan, the very active slave trading and genocide, by some
estimates in Darfour alone â over 50,000 people killed and 2.2 million
displaced from their homes and in urgent need of relief aid â this
includes the systematic rape of African Muslim women and girls, as well
as their enslavement. In her scathing Report to the United Nations
(August 11, 2004)Commission on Human Rights about the situation in
the Sudan, the Special Rapporteur on extra-judicial killings could not
have been clearer on the motives. This is arousing an international
solidarity against Islam and its violent and repressive spread. People are
flockinmg in the thousandsa every day to Christianity there...even where
there are no missionaries left alive.
For the past 1,400 years Eastern Christians have lived with, endured,
and coped under Sharia (Islamic law). The first Islamic conquests took
place during the last decade of the rule of Byzantine Emperor Heraclius
(610-641).Note history records them as "conquests" not willing
conversions.
Syria, Egypt, and Palestine were lost to Christianity (again, not
peacefully). Christian leaders such as Patriarch Sophronius of Jerusalem
made deals with Caliph Omar for the protection of his flock and of
Christendom's Holy places.
Despite Islam's claim of tolerance, Greek Orthodox, Armenian, Coptic,
and other Eastern Christians found themselves under terrible conditions.
While not immediately forced to convert, Christians were forced to
submit and to accept their new rulers as their masters. Economic
pressures and discrimination contributed to the eventual forced
conversion of millions of Christians to Islam.
The losses of Eastern Christianity continued following the invasions of
Byzantium that were begun by the Seljuk Turks in August 1071.
Steadily, Greek Christians were converted to Islam and adopted Turkish
and Arabic as their languages. In 1453, Sultan Mehmed II achieved one
of Islam's most notorious conquests when he conquered Constantinople
and defeated the Christian Empire's last Emperor Constantine
Paleologos.A reminder to you sir, to read your hsitory books. The
Crusades were never an attack on a legitimate Islam, but rather a
defense against attacks and an attempt to salvage the holiest of God's
historical places as they fell, as were desecrated by Islam....just
recently the tomb of the patriacrch Joseph, whom Muslims proclaim to
love as one of their own prophets, was sumarily destroyed by Muslims
just to spite the local Jewish population..now oil cans and old car parts
litter the site: the poor patriarchs must be watching from Heaven in
shock at such desecration of their graves.
Europe eventually made peace with the Sultan at the expense of
Christian Greeks, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Albanians, and
Armenians. The peace didn't prevent Christian boys being kidnapped
and taken to the Janissaries for conversion to Islam and political
indoctrination. Women were taken into harems, Churches were
converted into Mosques and Christians were forced to acknowledge the
superiority of their rulers. "Zakat" a special tax was imposed on
Christians. Disputes between Christians and Muslims were heard
in ""Islamic " Courts where Christians could never be equals and could
never win.
At the dawn of the twentieth Century, there were still millions of
Christians in the Turkish Ottoman Empire. In 1915, the Young Turks
began a process of slaughtering one and a half million Armenian
Christians. Furthermore, the Greeks of Pontus and Asia Minor were
likewise targeted for extermination.
In Kashmir, as elswhere across Central Asia, there was no peaceful
conversion. The records of Sikander and others like him have endured
and proven how Islam came to dominate Kashmir. I am not familiar
with the history of India so I shall refrain from commenting on situations
there...
No, it was never peaceful, in spite of your previous long defense of
Sufi Islam....even Sufis protected and supported all Islamic-Shariat
enforcements, whether for slavery, dimmitude, or death to non-
believers. Sufis protected no one that Islam would not protect.
We have all seen the claims that Islam is the fastest growing religion in
the world....but people fail to take into account this is based upon a
runaway birthrate (quantity instead of quality)....In fact around the
world Islam is the fastest declining religion in the world, and there just
aren't enough zealous missionaries in existence to be responsible for
this new rush of converts back to Chrsitianity....
Al-Jazeera ran an in-depth article a few months ago, and I wish I could
find it again so I could include it here: basically it admitted that 16,000
converts per week (their most conservative number) around the world,
and over a million every year are leaving Islam.And that's in spite of
missionaries, not because of them.
So you see, sir, it isn't just in kashmir, and it isn't because of America,
or CIA plots, or oil, or missionaries in Kashmir or Iraq...it's because
people choose peace, and people choose to enter the modern world
with kind hearts and good souls.
The words of the Quran are sealed forever. This means that forever
there will be the unrest in the world brought on by the extremists and
malcontents and just plain nasty men who will sieze upon the words of
the Quran and see "Taliban" "jihad" "terrorism" "Shariat" (which means
cutting off of hands and feet and stoning) or Christians as "monkeys and
pigs" not worthy of respect or equality. There will always be bullies, and
they will always find a way in the very way the Quran is worded..
...the Quran cannot be changed...but people can, and they will continue
to change and make choices of their own free will. The choice is for
peace and love. The choice is for tolerance. Now I have probably
offended that nice gentleman in London who supports CAIR.....but I'm
sure he's aware of all these truths and conflicts too...
Perhaps it's not as bad as you fear to be a Christian (again) especially in
Kashmir which was virtually all Christian before arrival of Islam.
That's why Issa's tomb is there. I believe it's the will of God that the
Valley return to Christianity. :-)
Wishing you peace, Suzanne
Dear Yogi,
I do not understand why the spread of Christianity is regarded with such
suspicion and hostility...nor why over-zealous missionaries in Kashmir are being blamed. The book you cited is doomed to confuse everyone and ultimately fail because it treats Kashmir as a unique situation, when, in fact, it's the entire Islamic world that is looking inward and making hard decisions about Islam as a viable religion for the future of the world..
In the Sudan, the very active slave trading and genocide, by some
estimates in Darfour alone â over 50,000 people killed and 2.2 million
displaced from their homes and in urgent need of relief aid â this
includes the systematic rape of African Muslim women and girls, as well
as their enslavement. In her scathing Report to the United Nations
(August 11, 2004)Commission on Human Rights about the situation in
the Sudan, the Special Rapporteur on extra-judicial killings could not
have been clearer on the motives. This is arousing an international
solidarity against Islam and its violent and repressive spread. People are
flockinmg in the thousandsa every day to Christianity there...even where
there are no missionaries left alive.
For the past 1,400 years Eastern Christians have lived with, endured,
and coped under Sharia (Islamic law). The first Islamic conquests took
place during the last decade of the rule of Byzantine Emperor Heraclius
(610-641).Note history records them as "conquests" not willing
conversions.
Syria, Egypt, and Palestine were lost to Christianity (again, not
peacefully). Christian leaders such as Patriarch Sophronius of Jerusalem
made deals with Caliph Omar for the protection of his flock and of
Christendom's Holy places.
Despite Islam's claim of tolerance, Greek Orthodox, Armenian, Coptic,
and other Eastern Christians found themselves under terrible conditions.
While not immediately forced to convert, Christians were forced to
submit and to accept their new rulers as their masters. Economic
pressures and discrimination contributed to the eventual forced
conversion of millions of Christians to Islam.
The losses of Eastern Christianity continued following the invasions of
Byzantium that were begun by the Seljuk Turks in August 1071.
Steadily, Greek Christians were converted to Islam and adopted Turkish
and Arabic as their languages. In 1453, Sultan Mehmed II achieved one
of Islam's most notorious conquests when he conquered Constantinople
and defeated the Christian Empire's last Emperor Constantine
Paleologos.A reminder to you sir, to read your hsitory books. The
Crusades were never an attack on a legitimate Islam, but rather a
defense against attacks and an attempt to salvage the holiest of God's
historical places as they fell, as were desecrated by Islam....just
recently the tomb of the patriacrch Joseph, whom Muslims proclaim to
love as one of their own prophets, was sumarily destroyed by Muslims
just to spite the local Jewish population..now oil cans and old car parts
litter the site: the poor patriarchs must be watching from Heaven in
shock at such desecration of their graves.
Europe eventually made peace with the Sultan at the expense of
Christian Greeks, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Albanians, and
Armenians. The peace didn't prevent Christian boys being kidnapped
and taken to the Janissaries for conversion to Islam and political
indoctrination. Women were taken into harems, Churches were
converted into Mosques and Christians were forced to acknowledge the
superiority of their rulers. "Zakat" a special tax was imposed on
Christians. Disputes between Christians and Muslims were heard
in ""Islamic " Courts where Christians could never be equals and could
never win.
At the dawn of the twentieth Century, there were still millions of
Christians in the Turkish Ottoman Empire. In 1915, the Young Turks
began a process of slaughtering one and a half million Armenian
Christians. Furthermore, the Greeks of Pontus and Asia Minor were
likewise targeted for extermination.
In Kashmir, as elswhere across Central Asia, there was no peaceful
conversion. The records of Sikander and others like him have endured
and proven how Islam came to dominate Kashmir. I am not familiar
with the history of India so I shall refrain from commenting on situations
there...
No, it was never peaceful, in spite of your previous long defense of
Sufi Islam....even Sufis protected and supported all Islamic-Shariat
enforcements, whether for slavery, dimmitude, or death to non-
believers. Sufis protected no one that Islam would not protect.
We have all seen the claims that Islam is the fastest growing religion in
the world....but people fail to take into account this is based upon a
runaway birthrate (quantity instead of quality)....In fact around the
world Islam is the fastest declining religion in the world, and there just
aren't enough zealous missionaries in existence to be responsible for
this new rush of converts back to Chrsitianity....
Al-Jazeera ran an in-depth article a few months ago, and I wish I could
find it again so I could include it here: basically it admitted that 16,000
converts per week (their most conservative number) around the world,
and over a million every year are leaving Islam.And that's in spite of
missionaries, not because of them.
So you see, sir, it isn't just in kashmir, and it isn't because of America,
or CIA plots, or oil, or missionaries in Kashmir or Iraq...it's because
people choose peace, and people choose to enter the modern world
with kind hearts and good souls.
The words of the Quran are sealed forever. This means that forever
there will be the unrest in the world brought on by the extremists and
malcontents and just plain nasty men who will sieze upon the words of
the Quran and see "Taliban" "jihad" "terrorism" "Shariat" (which means
cutting off of hands and feet and stoning) or Christians as "monkeys and
pigs" not worthy of respect or equality. There will always be bullies, and
they will always find a way in the very way the Quran is worded..
...the Quran cannot be changed...but people can, and they will continue
to change and make choices of their own free will. The choice is for
peace and love. The choice is for tolerance. Now I have probably
offended that nice gentleman in London who supports CAIR.....but I'm
sure he's aware of all these truths and conflicts too...
Perhaps it's not as bad as you fear to be a Christian (again) especially in
Kashmir which was virtually all Christian before arrival of Islam.
That's why Issa's tomb is there. I believe it's the will of God that the
Valley return to Christianity. :-)
Wishing you peace, Suzanne