Radicalisation Of Indian Muslims

09-02-2006, 12:26 AM

With education Muslims normally opt for Hindusim e.g. Kalam, Bismillah Khan etc.

We welcome Debsharma in our fold.

I don't understand why they newspaper is writing he "claims". When he is saying he is Hindu, what else he had to prove. Religion is his choice.

09-02-2006, 12:32 AM

Top 10 Reasons Why Islam Isn't Exactly a Religion of Peace

09-02-2006, 12:37 AM

Muslims protest singing Vande MataramQUOTEThe Jharkhand Monin Adhikar Manch , a Muslim organisation, has threatened to observe September 7, the day marking completion of centenary celebrations of Vande Mataram , as a black day.

"Such songs have no place in Islam. If we are forced to sing the song then we will observe September 7 as black day," said Md Nausad Khan, president of the Manch.

Some other Muslim organisations have also threatened to follow suit if the state government does not take back the order.

09-02-2006, 10:08 PM

Fatwa on Naqwi <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />

Here you go, Congress supported Deoband came out with Fatwa.

09-03-2006, 07:27 PM

Ali Sina's take on India's Islamist - Zakir Naik

09-03-2006, 07:55 PM

I must say mr subramaniam appears to be an enlightened tolerent person.????Extremism whether Islamic, Christian or Hindu is the curse of our society . I signed up onto this forum as a baluch thinking I would be conversing with a broadminded group,which I confess majoruty of the members are- excluding Mr subramaniam offcourse. There are too many muslims in the subcontinent and Dalits to wage war with. Tolerance an.d assimilation is the only path .Afterall it was an extremist hindu who killed Gandhi!!! The Baluch people protect Hindu shrines/mandirs .. and I believe all sane Hindu's should do the same with muslim mosques in India.

QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Mar 11 2006, 10:40 AM)The fundamental mistake that most people make is assuming that
the villain is Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia
nve
As early as 1350, in the hindu kingdom of kerala, with 2% muslims,
per Ibn Batuta, muslims were rioting often
.
The standard secular discourse is that hindutva is radicalising Indian muslims

If we look at the period 1919-1947, during the presence of Gandhi,
muslims went on numerous riots killing millions of people

In places where muslims have been subjected to great violence such
as in Indian Punjab, muslims are very peaceful

The post independence muslim behavior has been
Let me kill hindus,
kill cows,
molest and abduct hindu women
Change demographics by overbreeding or illegal immigration
convert using saudi funds
Whitewash muslim atrocities
Give in to demands such as article 370, Shah Bano etc

ELSE
will riot

The one new twist is
if hindus retaliate, will get help from Pakistan to set off bomb blasts

The choice they give to hindus is get killed by the local muslim
acting alone ELSE get killed with pakistani help

What this shows is that muslims are very willing to climb the escalation
ladder unless matched with reciprocal escalating violence

Case in point
1992 - muslims riot in Mumbai
Hindus retaliate
Muslims bomb Mumbai

Hindus fail to escalate

This hindu failure to escalate has emboldened muslim bombing all
over India

The correct preferred way against Indian Jihadists is strict law enforcement
However, thanks to vote banks that will not happen

Next at some point frustrated with no law enforcement
a hindu mob forms

The correct target for the mob is the local madrasa, mullah, mosque,
not average muslims

In interrogations with jihadists, it has been discovered that
while they may be willing to die, they are deterred by reprisals against their family
members

Hence in a very crude and clumsy way, post Godhra reprisals
had some deterrent effect

Those hindus who advocate violence need to understand
that if the path of violence is chosen, it has to be followed up all the way a-la 1947 Indian Punjab,
else a few years later with better demographic ratio, muslims will again resort to
violence
If the path of violence is chosen, it is all or nothing

Counter breeding is more effective than counter rioting

Ask why we have maximum jihadi activity in kerala, UP, west bengal, Assam,
all ruled by seculars
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09-03-2006, 08:58 PM

shahid khan,

Here we call spade a spade.
Topic of this thread clearly states "Radicalization of Indian Muslims". Majority of Muslims of Indian subcontinent are Hindu converts by force or rape. Barbaric Arab soldiers came on horse without Arab woman. What they did in Indian subcontinent is unforgettable. We are proud of our Hindu ancestors, that they protected religion even facing so many atrocities.
Haven said that, we are worried about current situation in India and especially Indian Muslims. Regular terrorist activities by Indian Muslims can't be ignored and if you check all post and news item, you can come to conclusion on your own that Indian Muslims donât respect Indian constitution and law.
Same is happening in UK. They woke up late, Indian Government is sleeping and busy in appeasement policy and trying to buy temporary peace.

Bharatvarsh · 09-04-2006, 03:20 AM

QUOTETolerance an.d assimilation is the only path .Afterall it was an extremist hindu who killed Gandhi!!! The Baluch people protect Hindu shrines/mandirs .. and I believe all sane Hindu's should do the same with muslim mosques in India. 
Do you know anything about Godse and why he killed Gandhi (other than what you read in standard history books), the guy believed in secularism but at the same time saw Gandhi's anti Hindu policies and killed him, he carried out a political assasination (whether it was right or wrong is a different matter) but to claim that he was a religious fanatic is utter nonsense.

As for Pakistan, we see the great protection Hindus get there, it's because of such protection that Hindus and Sikhs came down from 24% to 2% while in India Muslims went from 9% to 13% since partition, what's the point in claiming that you guys are protecting Hindus when everything is finished and Hindus have been reduced to paupery and their population almost decimated.

**acharya** · 09-04-2006, 06:58 AM

Paki Come Home ! - Dr. Koenraad Elst

Posted on 03 September, 2006
Message to the British Muslims of South-Asian origin

After the timely folding of yet another Islamic terror plot, the public's attention is focused once more on the "Paki problem". Over twenty Muslims have been arrested in connection with the alleged discovery of preparations to blow up a set of airplanes on trans-Atlantic flights starting from London Heathrow. They are mostly holders of British citizenship, born in Britain though of South-Asian origin, and from well-settled families. To their British neighbours, fellow students or colleagues, they must have looked like success stories in terms of integration into British society. And yet, they secretly wanted to terminate the lives of hundreds of anonymous Britons, not excluding those same unsuspecting neighbours.

This is only one incident, though apparently a very sizable one. We may even concede that the incriminating evidence is not fully in yet, so we shouldn't judge in haste. But then, it is only one incident among many. The German police have just folded a Muslim plot to blow up trains, and worse than the failed terror attacks are all those that have succeeded. Remember the trains blown up in Madrid, the tourist centres blown up in Bali, the murder of Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam, and so many others. Specifically Pakistani connections were in evidence in the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the WTC in New York, on the public transport system of London on 7-7-2005, and in the endless series of terror attacks in India: buses stopped and all non-Muslims shot every other month in Jammu & Kashmir; repeated bomb attacks on trains and public buildings in Mumbai, from the big international trend-setter of 12-3-1993 (many synchronous explosions) to the latest one on 11-7-2006; on a political meeting in Coimbatore 1998; on Parliament buildings in Srinagar and Delhi in 2001; on temples in Gandhinagar, Ayodhya and Varanasi (the details of the latest temple attack in Imphal remain to be discovered); on a Diwali shopping crowd in Delhi, and so on.

Yes, we know your excuses: that you are millions while the terrorists are counted in dozens, so most of you are innocent and unrelated to terrorism. Still, outsiders will wonder just how many of you are in the know when these "unrepresentative" and "isolated" young men make their preparations for acts of terror. How many of you shield suspects when the police comes looking for them? Just a question.

And then the big excuse: that "this isn't real Islam", that "this great peaceful religion condemns terrorism", that "terrorists have no religion". We don't believe this convenient plea, but we would still welcome it if it could actually dissuade would-be terrorists from their project. Why do you always address us, the non-Muslims, with those rosy stories about peaceful Islam? Why not go to the centres of militancy and repeat those sermons there? We don't mean some perfunctory "open letter" meant for non-Muslim consumption, but an earnest effort to persuade the militant Muslims, one that doesn't stop until the goal is reached. We suspect you have so far never tried this because in your heart of hearts, you are perfectly aware that Islam does condone these acts. Because you expect the militants to quote chapter and verse from your own Quran to justify their methods, reminding you of how Mohammed's career mainly consisted in armed struggle against the infidels, and leaving you speechless.

The consequence is that only an extremely gullible fringe of British society can now remain unsuspecting. After this, what Muslim will they trust? Every time the problem of Islamic terrorism raises its head anywhere in the Western world, the public is treated to assurances that "this isn't the real Islam" and that "the vast majority of Muslims abhor this terrorism". Each time the politicians accompanied by camera crews pay visits to mosques to assure Muslims of their lasting confidence in Islam's peaceful intentions, which alas leaves them no time to go and comfort the victims of Islamic terror. Each time, ordinary people including the non-Muslim immigrants force themselvesto keep in mind that "not all Muslims are terrorists", in particular this one and that one with whom they try to stay friends.

But there is a limit to all this patience and goodwill. If Muslims who could be showpieces of multicultural integration turn out to be discreet fanatics and murderers, who says the friendly Paki news agent around the corner isn't plotting your death? This time around, Paki Britons will notice how the looks in people's eyes have become icy. Their mouths may not yet voice it, but their eyes are completely eloquent about it: "Paki, go home!" Indeed, if I hadn't studied Islamic doctrine and history, I too would by now have renounced all hope of a harmonious outcome and concluded: "Paki, go home!"

Fortunately, there is an alternative and simpler solution. You must have noticed that natives are far less prone to "Hinduphobia" or "Sikhphobia" or "Parsiphobia" than to what politicians like to call "Islamophobia". Indeed, non-Muslim South-Asian immigrants have authoritatively been praised as Britain's "model minority". If they too sometimes suffer harassment, it is very largely from natives who don't know the difference between all these exotic religions, between a Sikh and a bearded and turbaned Osama bin Laden. This way, you Pakis have made them the indirect victims of the sinister reputation that you yourselves have earned. Still, the performance in education and professional life of the non-Muslim South-Asians must be a matter of envy to you.

So, why not become one of them? You live in a country with unfettered religious freedom, quite a different situation from the religious oppression in Pakistan. Overnight, you can shed the burden of your Muslim identity and embrace Anglican Christianity, Methodism or Roman Catholicism. You can become an atheist or agnostic or go and congregate with the Druids and New-Agers in Stonehenge. Better still, you can return to your roots.

Every South-Asian Muslim knows that his ancestors were Zoroastrians or Kalash Kafirs, Buddhists or Hindus. In dramatic circumstances, they converted to Islam as the lesser evil in preference to death or impoverishment or third-class citizenship. Out of inertia or brainwashing, you yourselves have so far chosen to remain in Islam and not to undo their shame. Now that you are facing the consequences of being Muslims, viz. the hostility provoked by never-ending Islamic arrogance and aggression, you have a good occasion to reconsider your religious identity. Drop this erroneous belief system that was forced upon you and come home to your ancestral community, where you belong.

http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/arti...kiComeHome.html

**acharya** · 09-04-2006, 07:03 AM

`Islam does not preach terrorism'

Special Correspondent

Education, hard work can end poverty of Muslims

AWARENESS CALL: Shakeel Ahmed (left), Union Minister of State for Communications & IT at the Deeni Talimi rally in Hyderabad on Sunday. At right is Md. Ali Shabbir, Minister for I&PR. â Photo: G. Krishnaswamy

HYDERABAD: In an indirect reference to the United States and the BJP, Union Minister of State for Communications and Information Technology, Shakeel Ahmed, described them as the international and domestic enemies of Muslims respectively.

He told a rally at the Quli Qutub Shah Stadium in the old city here on Sunday that the country, which wanted to control the oil economy, and those who played vote bank politics with religion were the real enemies of Muslims. Mr. Ahmed was addressing the golden jubilee celebrations of the Markazi Anjuman-e-Qadria, which is involved in `deeni talim' (religious and moral education) through its "madrasas" and schools under formal education.

Procession organised

Hundreds of schoolchildren in the old city run by minority institutions participated in a procession from Mecca Masjid to the stadium. Tableaux highlighting the significance of Islamic education were put on display.

Mr. Ahmed regretted that Islam was identified with terrorists though the religion was involved in addressing sensitive issues confronting humanity. Islam did not preach terrorism. He said education and hard work alone were the solutions to the poverty of Muslims.

Information and Public Relations Minister Mohd. Ali Shabbir criticised the anti-secular forces for branding "madrasas" as breeding places of terrorism.

09-05-2006, 01:02 AM

bharatvarsh,
on tolerance to hindu's i am talking about baluchistan and not pakistan.

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 4 2006, 03:20 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTETolerance an.d assimilation is the only path .Afterall it was an extremist hindu who killed Gandhi!!! The Baluch people protect Hindu shrines/mandirs .. and I believe all sane Hindu's should do the same with muslim mosques in India. 
Do you know anything about Godse and why he killed Gandhi (other than what you read in standard history books), the guy believed in secularism but at the same time saw Gandhi's anti Hindu policies and killed him, he carried out a political assasination (whether it was right or wrong is a different matter) but to claim that he was a religious fanatic is utter nonsense.

As for Pakistan, we see the great protection Hindus get there, it's because of such protection that Hindus and Sikhs came down from 24% to 2% while in India Muslims went from 9% to 13% since partition, what's the point in claiming that you guys are protecting Hindus when everything is finished and Hindus have been reduced to paupery and their population almost decimated.
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09-08-2006, 09:46 AM

QUOTEClash within civilisation 
Pioneer.com
Balbir K Punj
In two recent incidents, Muslim lives have been lost in violence. Fourteen Shia pilgrims, including three from India, were killed on their way to the holy shrine of Imam Hussain in Karbala, Iraq. In Pakistan, their Army killed Nawab Akbar Bugti, the Baloch rebel leader.

In both the incidents, the Muslims met a gory end at the hands of Muslims and, in the process, have helped in exploding a secular myth. The 'secular' arguments to explain Islamist terrorism go something like this: The global jihadi terror is a violent response by a militant section of a wronged community and the US and the UK have courted terrorism through their imperialist policies, which are insensitive to Muslims. In India, terror acts are a reaction to the Babri Masjid demolition and the Gujarat riots. The onus for jihadi terrorism in India is thus on the Sangh Parivar.

How does the killing of the 14 Shias and Bugti's liquidation fit into this argument? It does not, for the victims and assassins belonged to the same faith - Islam. No wonder both 'secular' and Muslim leaders in India have reacted to these two incidents with subdued silence. Imagine the uproar that would have followed if such unfortunate incidents had taken place in Europe, the US, India or Israel.

The turbulent politics of Pakistan since its birth reveals how a state based on Islamic tenets is unable to deal with dissent in a civil manner. The trouble between West Pakistan's Punjabi power and East Pakistan's Bangla culture was intensified by the disequilibria within the new country. The Bangalis constituted 51 per cent of the Pakistan population but never got their due share in governance that was dominated by Punjabis. Since there was no scope for a dialogue in the system, Bengalis seceded.

A similar geography-demography imbalance continues to haunt the remnant Pakistan. Balochistan constitutes 43 per cent of the Pakistan landmass, but only three per cent of the country's population resides there. This region is rich in minerals and its gas reserve sustains Pakistan's energy needs. This gives Balochis an upper hand that the Pakistani establishment does not want to concede; hence, the dispute. And an Islamic state has no scope for a negotiated solution to such problems.

Bugti's killing fits into a predictable pattern of Islamic societies. It has been a politics of murder and mayhem in Pakistan with every prominent politician in the country being accused in one or more murder cases. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was hanged by General Zia's regime for the alleged murder of a prominent Pakistani politician. Nawab Sharif and Benazir Bhutto, both former Prime Ministers, live in exile and they cannot enter Pakistan. All the three Balochi leaders - Bugti, Nawab Khair Bakhsh Marri and Sardar Ataullah Mengel - have had murder charges on them at one time or the other. What sort of a society is this?

To add to this is the cancer-like growth of terrorist outfits. Rest of the world (particularly the US and India) has been complaining that the state of Pakistan is not doing enough to suppress these elements. In fact, in several instances, ISI has been accused of rather promoting them. Almost every terror plot in the US, Europe and India has been traced to Pakistan-based terror outfits as their training campus. Just as it is not easy for a parent to kill his or her offspring, it is difficult for the state of Pakistan to effectively crush the terror network, nursed by it over decades.

The main target of terrorist outfits is a kafir, but Sunnis among them are equally intolerant of other Muslim sects like Shias. Mutual killings and bombing of mosques are routine occurrence in Pakistan and several other Islamic countries. When the zealots fired by religious passion are not fighting against enemies without, they invent a few within. An intolerant creed survives on a regular diet of hate and demonisation.

After jihadis finished with Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan, they turned against some of their own prominent leaders. Zafarulla Khan, for long Pakistan's Foreign Minister, was expelled from Islam by Sunni mullahs. The entire Ahmadiya sect was declared non-Muslim and Khan himself lost his job and standing in Pakistan.

The Saudi regime has emerged as the fountainhead of this hate philosophy. Wahabi Islam supported by Saudi funds is influencing other Muslims in rest of the world, including India. The regime forms fertile bases for breeding terror groups from Indonesia to Morocco and aids in their outgrowth in Europe and the US. When Indian Muslim leaders/secularists call on the "faithful" to demonstrate in favour of mullahs, the ousted Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq and other 'Muslim causes', they display the influence of this same Wahabism on Indian Muslim masses.

As Islam is associated with the exercise of political and military power in the minds and memories of most Muslims, most Islamic regimes are asked to prove their bona fides through correct interpretation and implementation of Sharia'h laws. Modern law practices are anathema as the 'holy book' has already laid down what they should be. The job of the political authority is to implement them as closely as possible. Reversal of the Supreme Court judgment in the Shah Bano case and the recent backtracking on Vande Mataram issue by the 'secularists' in India have to be seen in this background.

Tension is growing and affecting both Pakistan and Bangladesh in different measures. In both the countries with their overwhelming Islamic majorities, militant regimes and democracies have repeated and replaced each other in clock-like regularity leading to precariousness of the future of each regime. Political instability and subservience of all regimes to the religious orthodoxy are born to Islamic countries.

Contrast this with the way social, economic and political tensions are resolved in India, which has the maximum diversity any democracy can withstand. The unrest in States like Mizoram has been resolved, while dialogue and negotiations are on in Nagaland. Linguistic separatism, as in Tamil Nadu in the 1950s, got subsided in the democratic process. Even separatist movement (promoted by Pakistan) in Punjab has since died. Is it because the democratic system of India draws its strength from Hindu ethos, steeped in pluralism and catholic outlook?

The world indeed is becoming a dangerous place to live in. It is no longer Islam versus West. It is also Islam versus Islam.
(bpunj@email.com)

09-09-2006, 12:12 PM

QUOTEAfter Vande Mataram Onam faces fanatics' ire

By Easwaran Nambudiri

After opposing the recital of national song Vande Mataram, the Muslim fundamentalists have now targeted Onam, perhaps the most secular festival in the country after Republic Day and Independence Day.

Keralaâs renowned harvest festival has always been cited as a symbol of the stateâs secular character as it has for centuries been celebrated by Hindus, Muslims and Christians alike despite its Hindu origins. The annual boat race, the traditional pookkalams (floral arrangements) and the âOna Sadyaâ (festival cuisine) associated with the event have come to be identified with Keralaâs culture itself. In fact, the stateâs tourism season officially begins with the Onam festival.

However, the Muslim fundamentalists in the state, who are increasingly gaining strength, even electorally, under banners like the Peopleâs Democratic Party, thought otherwise. The Muslim management of the AWH Engineering College at Kuttikattoor in the pre-dominantly Muslim Kozhikode district decided to prohibit Onam celebrations on the campus. Senior students had collected money for Onam celebrations last.

âThe juniors were subjected to ragging during such celebrations and we wanted to prevent recurrence of such incidents,â was the specious response of College Principal Ahamed Kutty.

Defending the indefensible, AWH Secretary Muhammed said: âThe decision to ban such celebrations is only to uphold college discipline.â

However, even as the secularist media which paint the town red when the Madhya Pradesh government decides to do away with some nursery rhymes or an insignificant poem on âChachaâ Nehru, chose to maintain a dead silence. The students of the college responded by organising pookkalams (floral arrangements) outside the Principalâs room. As a novel way of protest, they organised similar arrangements in every room of the college. âEvery Malayalee has the right to celebrate the festival, irrespective of caste and creed,â said a students leader.

Condemning the incident, BJP National Vice-President Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi told Organiser: âUnfortunately, today there is a competition to destroy the nationâs culture and identity. The so-called secularist mindset is gradually converting to separatist mindset.â The college managementâs decision also came under attack from nationalist organisations in the state.

The national media may have played down the incident but they would do well to remember that the Marad killings, the Sabarimala controversy, the Kerala Assemblyâs unanimous resolution demanding the release of Coimbatore blast accused Abdul Nasser Madani and the victory of extremist candidates defeating the âmoderatesâ in Malappuram district in the recent Assembly polls are not isolated incidents. They mark the turning points in the stateâs emergence as a fundamentalist hub over the years. They represent the attempts to denigrate the Hindu religion. They reflect the efforts to tear apart the secular fabric of the most literate state in the country. The pseudo-secularists should understand that it is the mindset and not literacy that matters.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...&pid=147&page=3


Curious about what their (muslim) NEXT agenda is. Change the Indian national flag; put a crescent and moon in the place of the chakra? An increasing, scary trend in extreme intolerance among Indian muslims. Much of this problem is because of the large Bangladeshi and Pakistani settlements in India, who bring in their fanatical Arab outlook on other religions and cultures.

Bharatvarsh · 09-09-2006, 10:32 PM

QUOTETaleban town

But residents were not impressed by the police intelligence-gathering network.

Drug store owner Sheikh Rashid said the police should have enough information on militant activity because the city has been under surveillance since some local men were arrested a few months ago.

Imran Ansari, meanwhile, is angry.

He lost his brother and two young nephews in the bomb attacks.

The trio had gone to the mosque to offer Friday prayers, but never returned.

"We are looked at suspiciously by the police. But has any Hindu been killed by Muslims here, ever? Has there been any communal riot between Hindus and Muslims in recent times?" he asked.

It is unfair to treat townspeople as supporters of Islamic militancy, he says.

It was this nondescript town five years ago that had witnessed a large scale protest over the US invasion of Afghanistan.

Police killed 12 Muslim protesters after a brief altercation with them.

The Taleban government had enjoyed immense support in Malegaon.

But why do they react to the attacks on Muslim countries?

Mohammed Irfan, a member of a large crowd around me, answered:

"If a needle is pierced in any part of your body the whole body hurts, doesn't it? The Muslims all over the world are like a human body."

But does it hurt to see no Muslim country came out to condemn the latest attacks on them?

"It's their problem. We do our duty... It's an obligation by Islam to support Muslims and we do our Islamic duty."

And perhaps this is the mindset that worries the establishment the most.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5330832.stm

09-15-2006, 07:36 AM

Islamist orthodoxy and Indian democracy - TAVLEEN SINGH
QUOTE
The Chief Justice of India made an important comment last week that went unnoticed except by the Indian Express. While announcing his decision to move the Srinagar sex scandal case to Chandigarh because no lawyer in the state of Jammu & Kashmir was prepared to defend the suspects, Justice Y.K. Sabharwal reprimanded the J & K Bar Association for its decision to deny legal aid to the defendants and for saying that the sex scandal showed the âentire world the real face of India in Kashmir.â Justice Sabharwal said, âIt is only in India that despite these comments you are being heard. In no other democracy will it be heardâ.

With this comment the Chief Justice becomes the first high official in India to acknowledge that our home-grown Islamists are taking advantage of Indian democracy to propagate unacceptably retrograde views on a wide range of subjects. Views that maybe acceptable in Saudi Arabia or in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan but should have no place in a secular country like ours.

agnivayu · (This post was last modified: 09-15-2006, 06:23 PM by agnivayu.)

Surprise surprise, Hindu guardians have been stating for years that Muslims are a ticking time bomb. Every country in the world where Muslims are a minority, they are creating trouble and making excuses about discrimination.

Although hard to believe today, I can see a day in the near future where Europe, America, India and possibly even Russia/China working in true co-operation to crush the Islamic fascists.

With this comment the Chief Justice becomes the first high official in India to acknowledge that our home-grown Islamists are taking advantage of Indian democracy to propagate unacceptably retrograde views on a wide range of subjects. Views that maybe acceptable in Saudi Arabia or in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan but should have no place in a secular country like ours.
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09-16-2006, 01:21 AM

QUOTEBukhari, MLA loyalists clash 
Staff Reporter | New Delhi
Supporters of Shahi Imam Ahmad Shah Bukhari, and Matia Mahal Member of Legislative Assembly (MLA) Shoaib Iqbal pelted stones and hurled abuse at each other in the Jama Masjid on Friday.

The police had to use teargas shells to control the angry mob. The drama continued from afternoon till late evening. More than 10 persons received minor injuries in the whole incident.

The area around Jama Masjid turned into a battlefield on Friday afternoon after the Friday namaaz ended. The Shahi Imam was protesting against Pope Benedict XVI for his comments on Prophet Mohammed and was demanding that he should apologise. 

He was making announcements from Jama Masjid. The local MLA too was protesting against the same issue outside Gate no 1 of Jama Masjid with his supporters through mikes. The Imam could not take it and started passing comments on the MLA. This was followed by stone pelting by the Imam's supporters. The supporters of Shoaib Iqbal then retaliated.Â <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Both the groups have blamed each other for the drama. The police had to intervene after the situation went out of control and several persons received injuries.

Even after the Rapid Action Force (RAF) and additional personnel of Delhi Police were deployed in the area supporters of the Imam continued to pelt stones from Jama Masjid.

The police had to use teargas shells to tackle the situation. Police asked everybody to leave the place and not indulge in any violence so that law and order could be maintained. No one was detained till late evening.

Following the whole drama all the shops in the area were closed to maintain peace and the crowd which had gathered at the spot was dispersed.

Meanwhile, security has been beefed up at the Vatican Embassy in New Delhi area after the incident and the ongoing nationwide protest.
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09-17-2006, 09:24 PM

Sting operation shows clerics issuing fatwas for moneyQUOTE
Â
A TV channel on Sunday aired purported footage of Muslim clerics in the national capital and Uttar Pradesh issuing fatwas for a payment, triggering condemnation from community leaders and protests in Meerut.
The clerics allegedly issued fatwas on a variety of subjects, including the use of credit cards and camera phones by Muslims, acting in films, and watching television, said the report on Star News that carried out a sting operation along with Cobrapost in Delhi and Meerut.

One of the clerics, Ahmed Nadir Al Qasmi, an official of Delhi-based Islamic Fiqh Academy, was shown allegedly accepting Rs 5,000 for issuing a fatwa.

The footage also purportedly showed Maulana Imran, a cleric from Meerut, allegedly demanding Rs 50,000 for issuing five fatwas against the wearing of jeans by girls in Muslim-run institutes and the teaching of English in madarsas.

In Meerut, students of a madarssa staged a protest against the clerics, saying the incident had "hurt" the community. Muslim leaders convened a meeting of clerics to decide whether action should be taken against those named in the sting operation.

In a statement, Islamic Fiqh Academy general secretary Maulana Khalid Saifullah Rehmani expressed regret at the incident. He said the body had launched a probe and would take action against anyone found guilty. Ahmed Nadir Al Qasmi had been restrained from issuing any more fatwas, he said.

Rehmani said the academy was not responsible for Qasmi's actions. He said the academy did not charge anything for fatwas, which were issued only after they had been vetted by at least two clerics.
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This is great. Now they should do more work , track whether these Mullah pay tax?

09-18-2006, 06:17 PM

In contrast of the above the following media report from the Indian Press is worth noting
Quote
Issue over, forgive him: UP Muslims

Castel Gandolfo (Italy), Sept. 17: Pope Benedict XVI said on Sunday he was âdeeply sorryâ about the angry reaction sparked by his speech about Islam and holy war and said the text did not reflect his personal opinion. âThese (words) were in fact a quotation from a medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought,â the Pope told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.

He noted that the Vatican secretary of State on Saturday had issued a statement trying to explain his words, which Benedict had delivered on Tuesday in a speech during a pilgrimage to his native Bavaria. âI hope that this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with great mutual respect.â

[Prominent Muslim clerics in Uttar Pradesh said the issue should now be considered closed in view of the Popeâs apology, PTI reports from Lucknow. âNow that the Pope has tendered an apology, Muslims should also forgive him,â said Naib Imam of Idgah Maulana Khalid Rashid Firangimahali on Sunday. âThe issue should be considered closed after the Popeâs apology,â he said.]

Speaking about his pilgrimage last week, he said: âAt this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.â At the German university, where he had been a theology professor, Benedict, quoting from an obscure medieval text, cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterised some of the teachings of Prophet Mohammed as âevil and inhumanâ.

âWhile anger over the Popeâs remarks is necessary, it shouldnât last long, because while he is the head of the Catholic Church in the world, many Europeans are not following (the church) so what he said wonât influence them,â Mohammed Mahdi Akef, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, said. Anger and violence â including attacks on seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza â represented the biggest international crisis to rock the Vatican in decades, and the Vatican appeared determined to move quickly to try to defuse the anger.
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09-18-2006, 10:13 PM

QUOTEHaj subsidy or jiziya 
Pioneer.com
Members of other faiths should also be beneficiaries in the cause of their respective pilgrimages, says Prafull Goradia

The momins or faithful Muslims should thank the Lucknow Bench of the Allahabad High Court for barring the Government from the payment of the subsidy on Haj, although the Supreme Court has stayed the order for the current year. The reason for saying so is the experience with my Urdu teacher, Agha Iqbal Mirza. As a gesture of appreciation, I once offered financial help to him towards undertaking Haj. Although, he was 64 years old, he had not been able to perform one of the five essential duties of a momin. His response surprised me. He said if he undertook Haj with someone else's money, Allah the merciful would not only deny him the credit but also, Mirza felt, disqualify him from ever being fit for jannat or heaven. Since he knew his religion, I did not ask again and instead sent him on a holiday to Manali.

It is obligatory for a Muslim to undertake Haj once in his lifetime provided he can afford it and provided he has sufficient money to look after his family during his absence. In other words, the person should be financially well endowed for looking after all his normal obligations. Chapter DXVI of Sahih Muslim by Imam Muslim, Hadith 3095, confirms that Haj is necessary, as are all the other four pillars of Islam, provided the performance thereof lies within the power of the faithful. The power includes money, physical fitness as well as family circumstances. In all the Islamic literature that I have come across, there is no mention whatsoever of either charity or any alien help including the taking of a loan in order to go to Mecca. The Haj subsidy sanctioned by the Government of India and paid from the consolidated fund is sourced from the taxes collected. It is inferior in status to charity because the consolidated fund is not intended to finance khairat or charity. The explanation to Sura 11, ayat 198 of the Holy Quran by A Yusuf Ali declares that legitimate trade is allowed in order to meet the expenses to avoid any inconvenience with regard to necessaries of life in the course of pilgrimage.

The Government entered the affairs of Haj in order to protect the pilgrims during their journey to Mecca and to ensure their safe return. This happened during British rule. The Mogul shipping line was assigned the task of ferrying the prospective hajis from several ports in India. They were accommodated on the steamer decks and charged economy fare. The question of any subsidy did not arise. The Port Haj Committee Act of 1932 was the result of a Haj Enquiry Committee which was appointed by the Government in March 1929, until which time there was no state intervention in Haj. The Act introduced portwise committees for Bombay, Calcutta and Karachi. Sea travel for the pilgrims continued until 1995 after which only air travel has been taking place. Meanwhile in 1954, travel by aeroplane had begun.

With the advent of Independence and in due course starting of the Shipping Corporation of India, sea travel became free for pilgrims. The bill was footed by the Ministry of Surface Transport. With the introduction of air travel, the responsibility for transport and subsidy was shifted to the Ministry of External Affairs. The 1932 Act was superseded by the Haj Act of 1959 and later of 2000. The Haj subsidy has been raised from time to time while the number of pilgrims has jumped by leaps and bounds. In 1994, 21,035 pilgrims travelled and the subsidy was Rs 5,000 per head, the total cost to the exchequer being Rs 10.51 crore. By 2006, in the course of a mere 12 years, the number of pilgrims shot up to 99,565 and the subsidy per head rose to Rs. 28,000. The cost to the exchequer became Rs. 280 crore. These figures have been provided by the Ministry of Civil Aviation on June 27, 2006. If the pilgrims were to increase for the next 12 years at the same pace as during the last 12 years, in the year 2018 they would number nearly 5 lakh. The corresponding figure in the rate of subsidy would amount to Rs. 1,56,000 per head. The total cost to the exchequer would multiply to nearly 8 lakh crore rupees or much more than the current budget of the Central Government.

Is this not a contemporary version of the medieval jiziya? That was a Poll tax collected from the kafirs or non-believers, credited to the ruler's treasury and spent for the running the Islamic administration as well as the welfare of the Muslim populace. In what way is the Haj subsidy materially different from jiziya? Had it been otherwise, members of other faiths should also be beneficiaries in the cause of their respective pilgrimages. The Roman Catholics should be subsidised for travelling to the Vatican and praying at St Peters, Anglican Christians for going to pray at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Some Christians may wish to proceed to either Bethleham or Jerusalem or both. The Jews would also claim Government's help for travel to their holy land. Similarly, there are some Parsis who consider their visit to Iran as a pilgrimage. The Hindus would also have their own claims. The GOI should bear in mind that even rich income tax paying Muslims are entitled to the Haj subsidy.

It is possible that this was one of the several considerations that may have weighed with the 11 Judge Bench of the Supreme Court in the year 2002 in the landmark judgement well known as TMA Pai Foundation vs State of Karnataka. This august bench had in paragraph 85 of its judgement stated that secularism being one of the important basic features of our Constitution, Article 27 provides that no person shall be compelled to pay any taxes, the proceeds of which are specifically appropriated for the payment of expenses for the promotion and maintenance of any particular religion or religious denominations. That would mean that no one need to pay income tax. What would then be the state of the national budget?

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