Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 6

[Husky]

^



More on the inculturation-type stuff:



http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011...neth-rose/

Interspirituality: Interfaith dialogue or dissembling monologue

[Husky]

Both the article linked to in the previous post and this next one are related: on the topic of inculturation.



Sharan has updated his 2-year old "Atma Jyoti Ashram" article:

http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011...saraswati/

Atma Jyoti Ashram: Sannyasis or Snake Oil Salesmen? – Swami Devananda Saraswati

Posted on January 30, 2011 by IS



This article was originally published in June 2009 on Vijayvaani with the title “Atma Jyoti Ashram: In sheep’s clothing” and VigilOnLine with the title “Atma Jyoti ‘ashram’: Christian priests or swindlers?”. Since that date it has appeared on various websites under various titles including Hamsa.org (now defunct) with the title “Atma Jyoti Ashram: Christian Priests Uncloaked!”. We have updated the article here, adding relevant photos and links and a subtitle that reads “Being also a critique of the Sri Ramanasramam journal Mountain Path and its editors”. This present version is a complete reference and, we hope, a better reference than the original feature. — SDS



[...]

Rest at link



Pay especial attention to things like:

1. the mention of "HinduismToday" (mouthpiece of "Himalayan Academy")

2. the details Sharan gives that are more than sufficient to indicate that VS Ramanan is a cryptochristist, not merely an "innocent" Hindu "useless idiot".

3. jetsetting Indian movements/personalities* working to acquire "converts", even handing out sannyasi robes, plus inviting others to dabble part-time ("please remain christian, yet you can still dabble in Hinduism") which is the very opposite of the old Hindu automated response of "There can be no converts to our religion, you have to be born a Hindu".

* So if Hindus want to blame anyone for the proliferation of inculturating christoterrorists, blame them. Without Indian movements propping it up, christianism's inculturation could never have acquired any standing among Hindus.



4. And this next is a paragraph which is duplicated here because I happen to find it very important. Especially the blue bit in big letters, obviously.

Deconstructing Advaita Vedanta

Most modern Indian religious teachers do take Advaita Vedanta out of its original Vedic religious context, and in so doing give a potent weapon to the enemy with which to attack Hindu religion and undermine Hindu society and culture. Sita Ram Goel, in Catholic Ashrams, writes:



“[T]he literature of Indigenisation provides ample proof that several Hindu philosophies are being actively considered by the mission strategists as conveyors of Christianity. The Advaita of Shankaracharya has been the hottest favourite so far. The Vishistadvaita of Ramanuja, the Bhakti of the Alvar saints and Vaishnava Acharyas, the Integral Yoga of Sri Aurobindo and the Vichara of Ramana Maharshi are not far behind.”



The medieval Acharyas and more recent teachers of Vedic spirituality like Sri Ramana Maharshi were able to know without difficulty the religious identity and affiliations of their disciples. They did not have to search out and verify their students’ political and religious backgrounds. This is not true today. Hindu society has become secularised in the cities and teachers are faced with multicultural audiences from different countries and traditions. They do not know who is sitting in front of them. It is therefore incumbent on all Hindu gurus in India and abroad to put their philosophical teaching into its original religious context, so that it cannot be abused and distorted by Hinduism’s scholarly Marxist and Christian enemies.



Apostle Paul and the Early Church Fathers conquered ancient Greece by forcibly secularising Greek society. They divided the unity of Greek religion and mythology from Greek philosophy and philosophic terminology. They then secularised and appropriated Greek philosophic terminology and took the Greek religious concept of an Unknown God for themselves. The religious vacuum that followed this secularization of Greek society was filled in with the Jesus cult and other Christian superstitions. Indian bishops are perpetrating the same apostolic fraud on Hindu society today when they claim that the pre-Christian Tamil weaver saint Tiruvalluvar was a disciple of the legendary St. Thomas! They add to their cultural crime by appropriating his “secular” ethical treatise Tirukkural as their own and declaring it a sectarian Christian book.

(Very important point.)



This is how ancient Greece became a Christian country, and how modern India is fast becoming a christianised Hindu country. The difference is that in modern India, ill-informed Hindu spiritual teachers and ashram administrators are assisting the Christian predators in the downfall and obliteration of their own prized Hindu religion and culture.

Correction to the start of the last statement in the above quoteblock ("This is how ancient Greece became a Christian country"):

- it's not how Hellenistic Greece was *converted* to christianism. (The GrecoRoman heathens - by no means a small number - lost ground first through christianim's calculated minorityism and strategic discrimination against Hellenismos in favour of christianism, and were thereafter converted by outright violence. In no other way could christianism ever have succeeded in GR space.)

- rather, it's how the Hellenistic character of Hellenistic GrecoRoman religion ("civilisation") was appropriated and then rewritten, and continues to be appropriated and rewritten as being "a precursor to christianism", as being "actually christian, Hellenes misunderstood it". Christians are working hard on rewriting Isha/Ishwara/Parabrahman as the non-existent jeebusjehovallah demon (in reality, Parabrahman refers exclusively to the Hindu Divine/Gods. As do the most sacred Hindu terms Isha and Ishwara, which are all Vedic=Hindu terms alone). Just as christianism is working overtime to do exactly the same thing to Daoism too.

I.e. those components of heathen religions that the christian west dubs "monism" are separated from their inseparable heathen religions and appropriated for christianism, and then reinterpreted/declared as referring to the non-existent christian 'gawd' entity instead. In short: all the so-called "monisms" are appropriated for christianism. Christianism then uses this deliberate subversion to convince the "polytheistic idolators" - that's their reference to you - that you're "actually" monotheists /that your religion is "actually" about worshipping invisible monogawds (the non-existent jeebusjehovallah) instead.



Ironically, angelsk-speaking "Hindus" are frequently seen helping christianism by declaring falsely that it is indeed all the same, and they moreover keep inviting christians to dabble part-time aka terrorise.



What they do to the "monist" aspects of heathen religion - i.e. Platonist Philosophy, which is one (intrinsic, inseparable) aspect of Hellenismos, and Vedanta/Advaitam which is an (intrinsic, inseparable) aspect of Hindoo religion, and deeeep Daoist descriptions of the Dao which is a most intrinsic inseparable aspect of the Daoist Gods/Divine - is rather like how christianism:

- first declares that Yoga is one distinct 'branch' of Hindu religion (rather than how it is uniformly seen throughout Hindoo religion, i.e. a permeating part - sinds de oertijd)

- then Yoga is declared as separate from Hindu religion ("it's actually generally 'Indic' in origin" and hence "generally 'Indian'" and thereafter "it's actually universal")

- before declaring it is "actually christian" and "about jeebusjehovallah all along".

[Husky]

Institutionalised racism still going strong and taking place in front of your very noses:

"international"/"multi-ethnic" adoption.

Recall its particular uni-directionality: the powerful first-world stealing from the second and third world which are powerless to stop them, and which are (again) viewed by the first world as meant for exploitation. (All kinds of Traffick.)





Angelina Jolie, Madonna, Sandra Bullock etc. and now some star called Gaga - all into the selfish western ("first-world") fad of stealing ("second" and) "third world" children with the excuse of "saving" them. And all of them into doing a United Colours Of Benetton ad.



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/20...ady-GaGa-/

13th July 2011 By Daily Star reporter

BROODY pop babe Lady GaGa is planning to adopt a Benetton family of children from around the world.



Poker Face singer Lady GaGa, who showed off a two-tone hairstyle in Sydney yesterday, wants to copy multi-mum Angelina Jolie, 36.



GaGa, 25, who thinks a clutch of children would be the “perfect accessory to her world”, is determined to be a mum before she is 30 and told a pal she wants “lots of babies”.



Lady GaGa is determined to be a mum before she is 30 and told a pal she wants 'lots of babies'.

This latest fad of the rich, bored and trivial in the first world is not merely patronising, which it most especially is when they then expect others to be grateful for such selfishness. (And when the 'gracious' grow indignant at protest or resistance, they will claim the moral high ground: that they're supposedly the only ones trying to help the orphaned - always equated with "abandoned", but only where third world orphans are concerned - among the so-called third world children, that natives/native communities can't do it for themselves or wouldn't.) The acquisition industry is driven by the very selfish and self-aggrandising motives of the patronising first worlders who like the idea of seeing themselves acquire a multi-ethnic or multi-national family and in their triteness think they actually do good to their victims with it.



Victim populations regard the kidnapping of children from their societies as Kidnapping, as do the victims themselves ("Transracial Abductees"), rather than viewing this as the act of selfless heroism that the thoughtless, selfish and ultimately bigoted traders in children imagine it is. It's yet another form of lingering colonialism and conquest of other nations, where the first world argues it has the moral right in assuming for itself such supposedly 'benign' acts as allegedly 'saving' children from their own so-called 'negligent' societies (note monotheistic tendency to "save" people from themselves). Next to arguing that they can provide better for the children, self-justifications are essentially of the form that the first world is capable of and will love children more than the second and third world can or is willing to do. ("Else why do you have so many orphans? Obviously you natives don't want to look after your own and can't either" - said the western transracial abductors, ignoring western orphans in their *own direct* backyard. And at nearest, they still reach all the way for the 2nd world: Russia/Ukraine, Romania, Yugoslavia etc. There is a religious component to the crime too, if case you didn't notice.)



Such arguments are both innately racist and but an excuse to make the acquisitions: in the affluent climes of the first world, people are used to having their own way and so their childless couples must have children by hook or crook. And committing their crime in an African or Asian or South American setting is easier in practice and to their conscience: since these nations are poorer - but who made them poor? - and hence defenceless to easy exploitation. It's a continuation of cultural genocide and of racism:

- alien communities stealing children from their ethnic birth societies is nothing less than cultural genocide.

- the direction of travel of children is always from the second and third world to the first. The way heathen "artworks" are acquired by the west and put on show as "world heritage"/"culture" in museums or end up in alien collectors' personal collections. The direction of travel of "transracial abductees" is quite the same as the direction of travel of slaves. The only difference is that conceited first-world people will admit that slavery is evil (since it's been abolished), but will argue that such selfishness as adopting other nations/societies' children is supposedly a 'benevolent intervention' in the "best interest" of the children, and that the societies they are uprooted from are hostile, dangerous or disinterested (and dubbed more so if they protest).





But why is this post in the christianism thread, when Jolie is a confirmed atheist? Well, because this is a spin-off of christianism (yes it is): it's the latest mutation of the same old slavery + colonialism + "white man's burden" fantasy continuing in a supposedly PC form: that of "saving" *others'* children.





Oh, but it seems the best part of this post will be that one needn't listen to me at all: can listen to some real brains that tear to shreds western presumptions to moral superiority in adopting=abducting children from other ethnicities/nations and who translate what all the doublespeak and pretence is *really* about. (Credits go to Dhu or whoever on IF first found the site on transracial-abductees.)



[color="#0000FF"]You *want* to read the following.[/color]



1. http://www.transracialabductees.org/index.html

Why Abduction?



Abduction is the word we like better than adoption. "Adoption" conceals the unequal power between abductors and abductees, and in the abduction industry in general.

2. www.transracialabductees.org/politics/livingdolls.html

Living Dolls: Transracial adoption and cultural appropriation

by So Yung



In this age of cultural sensitivity and cultural awareness, white parents claim to do everything they can to learn the language, culture, and food of their abducted children of color. In newspapers, journals, fashion magazines, and television commercials, white abductors insist they are being culturally sensitive. It's time to talk about what this claim of sensitivity masks, to call it what it really is: cultural appropriation.



Many white parents use their abducted child to complete their collection of ethnic accessories. The child becomes the centerpiece in the ethnically decorated house. The child becomes the passport into foreign countries and people of color spaces. Surrounded by so much difference, in the form of two, three, or more abducted children of color, the white parents feel justified; they use the number of children of color in their possession to shield themselves from charges of racism.



Other parents admit that they have no contact with people of color, apart from their abducted children. They don't own any ethnic art. They don't enjoy eating ethnic foods. But they feel a responsibility to expose their abducted children to the tastes, smells, and sounds of their birth cultures: through culturally sensitive stuffed animals. Through culturally sensitive storybooks. Through language classes. And culture camps. Through telling their abducted children that there's nothing wrong with having different skin, eyes, and hair.



Desperate to be not-racist-white-parents of children of color, many abductors gather people of color around them and have them interact with the abducted child. By surrounding themselves with adult people of color, and throwing themselves into the struggles of their children's "people," white parents hope to shed their privilege. They are not appropriating people of color cultures�\they're saving them.



White parents will acknowledge that their abducted child is a different race from them and "there's nothing wrong with being a different race." They are open-minded and can't fathom the bigotry that inspires some people of color to call them racist. White parents will admit they live in an all-white town, but they hastily insist they would move to a more diverse place if their child's race "ever became a problem."



Whites choose which aspects of the abducted child's culture to assimilate into family life and which to discard. The children are forced to participate in the racial fantasies of the white parents. White parents dress the children of color up in their "native costumes." They treat their abducted children like little ethnic dolls. The white parents become perversely expert on the food, language, and customs of the abducted child's birth culture. They proudly claim to be "learning with my abducted child."



What is most disturbing about this form of cultural appropriation is that whites who abduct children of color disguise their cultural fetish as a concern for the well-being of children. Whites abduct multiple children of color and say "it's important for my transracial children to have someone from the same ethnic background to grow up with." Or "it's important for my transracial children to see each others' faces." Everything is purported to be done for the good of the abducted child, when in fact, the transracial abduction industry operates to feed white parents' insatiable hunger for "difference" in a form they can dominate.

(Actually, the above arguments are applicable on a wider scale, for all heathenism:

- all uncontactable peoples should be left alone

- heathen practices and rites etc of other religions should be made permanently off-limits to alien dabblers, who are always ever-eager to dabble

- native children belong to their native communities. If anyone *really* wanted to help - and weren't selfishly in it to acquire children - they would donate to heathen charities that keep help the native heathen community support their own heathen children and preserve their heathenism)







3. And see the site expose feminism* for the patronising racist colonialism and culture genocide that it is.

(* All feminism. There is only one feminism: the western kind, which is duplicated and transplanted globally by the monotheistic drive to "save" other people.) Who said females won't/don't commit cultural genocide and justify it? And so you see once again, it's not gender either that makes the difference. It's whether someone/a society is infected by the mindvirus or not.





Look how well this reviewer points out the inanity, double-standards and downright villainy of the pro-abduction feminists. No one can fail to see the blatant evilness of the Transracial Abductors who, after committing the crime, then write treatises trying to explain away and justify and support their racist abduction fetish in writing, all while continuing to pretend (using digressions on "women" and what-not) that they are somehow better than their indistinguishable male counterparts:



http://www.transracialabductees.org/poli...ctors.html

Conscientious Abductors: White Feminist Justifications

by So Yung



There aren't a lot of "feminist considerations of intercountry adoption" out there, and after reading this one, I feel like that's a good thing. Barrett and Aubin's article is full of familiar racist, U.S.-chauvinist myths and misrepresentations of transnational abduction, only this time they're "feminist," whatever that means. Barrett and Aubin begin the section called "CULTURE VS. FAMILY" with this narrative:



"Traveling all over with our daughter, we tried to soak up the very essence of her birth country. While she had the strong, stunning features of the people in the countryside, we wore the neon signs of tourists. We know a lot about her birth country. We have books, music, pictures and momentos, but we know not how to give her the deep, deep love of her birth country that can come so naturally to native people . . .



. . .Yet, our daughter knows how deeply she is loved and cared about by her family. She has an extensive, loving support system. We can only guess at her life had we not met, but are quite sure that she would have become one of her country's orphanage or homeless statistics" (128-29).



They go on to argue that, "Feminists who adopt internationally are in a unique position to further the active connection among women of varying cultures. We become bi-racial/cultural families immediately. Our children have strong ties to women in other countries, whether they remember them or not. We, ourselves, are inextricably bound to another woman who gave birth to the children we raise" (134-35).



So much of white feminist writing on "global feminism" depends on this kind of self-indulgent wishful thinking. Transnational abduction is the opposite of a movement to build "active connection among women of varying cultures." In fact, many people find transnational abduction appealing because they believe there is less chance of the birth parents trying to contact or "take back" the child. White women wanting to feel "connected" to women of "other" cultures is a classic example of feminist racism. Barrett and Aubin use their power as white, "North American" feminists to represent transracial, transnational abduction as a potentially transformative connection between women of "varying cultures," clearly a self-serving white feminist fantasy.



Most disturbing is Barrett and Aubin's "consideration" of the objections to transracial abduction raised by the National Association of Black Social Workers and "representatives from Third World countries." Barrett and Aubin acknowledge that "There are obviously some strong negative consequences of intercountry and interracial adoption. A child is usually raised as a brown/black child in a white home, without parents who understand directly the impact of racism." And they also state that the "general negative impact" of transracial abduction includes "cultural genocide" (130-131). But Barrett and Aubin abruptly (and conveniently) end their discussion of the "downsides" to transracial abduction before satisfactorily exploring any of them, cryptically stating, "People tend to polarize around the issues of family and culture, creating debates instead of working to see value in both sides. As feminists, we must address the total picture, delving still deeper into seemingly contradictory concepts looking for a fuller truth" (131). And finally, carrying their "culture vs. family" theme to its illogical conclusion, Barrett and Aubin pit "children" and "culture" against each other, suggesting that opponents of transracial abduction willingly and irresponsibly "risk" children "in order to save a culture" (131).



I don't know which is more upsetting, people who abduct without seeing anything slightly wrong with it, or people who claim to have a semi-clue as to what's fucked up about transracial, transnational abduction and then go ahead and do it anyway. Barrett and Aubin think being feminists automatically makes them better, more thoughtful abductors. However, it's clear their analysis doesn't challenge the white middle-class feminist tradition of maternalism toward "other women" and automatic breakdown when it comes to addressing issues of race and culture.



The article just gets weirder and more fucked up toward the end where the authors actually say this: "It is difficult for us, being white and North American, to know what intercountry adoption would feel like if we were, for example, Hispanic and South American. The closest we can come is to imagine a world in which girl children were without homes and only men were available to adopt" (137). Like I said, classic.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Barrett, Susan E., and Carol M. Aubin. "Feminist Considerations of Intercountry Adoptions." Women & Therapy 10.1-2 (1990): 127-138.

On this bit at the end:

the authors actually say this: "It is difficult for us, being white and North American, to know what intercountry adoption would feel like if we were, for example, Hispanic and South American. The closest we can come is to imagine a world in which girl children were without homes and only men were available to adopt" (137). Like I said, classic.

Am I reading this right? The fembots outdid themselves. Are they really implying that girl children belong to "women" - as some sort of community by itself - and boy children belong to "men"? Or are they saying that all children exclusively belong to "women" and so children don't belong to "men" at all - except when boy children grow up and reach adulthood and then I suppose they belong to "men" automatically by gender default?

Truly, these people are madder than I credited them with. They're quite, quite mad.



Apparently there's no such thing as family and society in these fembots' views? Owing to christoconditioning, the west dismisses *true* identifiers (like heathens' heathenism/family/overall heathen community) and instead sets up false (and trite) identities such as "skin-colour" and "gender". Next they'll try to tell you that heathen accomplishents and heroes are to be classed by gender, rather than be considered an equal stroke for all their religion's kind. Who - which *normal* person - would think that way.







4. And another one: http://www.transracialabductees.org/poli...marks.html

"Birthmarks: feminist racism in contemporary America" by So Yung. Read in full at link.



This bit:

There are lots of books out there about transracial abduction. They're usually called something like "Inside Transracial Abduction" or "Love Makes A Family." I thought I should try to read one all the way through, so I checked out this book called Birthmarks: Transracial Adoption in Contemporary America. It's by Sandra Patton, who at the time she turned her dissertation into this book was a visiting professor of women's studies at the University of Minnesota.

[...]

So I know the whole being in women's studies thing should have made me way more automatically suspicious of this Patton person, but I thought since she identifies herself in the acknowledgments as an "adoptee" that she wouldn't be totally fucked up.

Should be the universal response among Hindus too: automatic dismissal of all people in social engineering/brainwashing fields. Be immune.







5. http://www.transracialabductees.org/update/

The following segments all contain links to articles on the original page (visit the above link):

[color="#FF0000"]Christian vultures[/color], oops, i mean missionaries, circle Indonesia



Rev. Vernon Brewer, President of the Virginia-based missionary group WorldHelp, describes his organization's efforts to abduct tsunami orphans as "'no different than what Mother Teresa did by taking Hindu orphan children and placing them in a Roman Catholic children's home in Calcutta, and she won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing that.'" Read more about WorldHelp's thwarted abduction effort: Tsunami Orphans Won't Be Sent to Christian Home



Posted by So Yung on March 5, 2005





White Queers Address Homophobia, Ignore Racism (Shocking!)



As queers seek to gain access to mainstream institutions of marriage and adoption, the number of white queers who abduct children of color will continue to grow. This article from proudparenting.com celebrates the growing trend as a triumph for queer couples, while completely ignoring race and the ways in which racism and homophobia interlock. The article also vilifies birth mothers who AWOL before giving up their babies, absurdly portraying them as a form of 'adversity' faced by queer couples that is equal to, if not more powerful than, institutionalized homophobia. This myopic determination on the part of white queers to gain the same rights as straight whites, including the right to buy children of color, will further the systematic dismantling of communities of color, and alienate people of color within queer movements.



Gay Adoptions: Defining Triumph Against Adversity



Posted by So Yung on February 1, 2005





Bargain Bin Babies



This article is kind of a gross consumer report on transracial adoption: Growing number of white parents adopt black babies.



Posted by So Yung on November 28, 2004







Who Doesn't Love A Good Matrix?



So this Joint Council on international children's services seems like a mega-conglomerate of all sorts of crazy abduction agencies, but this might be a useful chart, excuse me, matrix, for u.s. legislation update stuff: Adoption Legislation Matrix.



Posted by So Yung on November 23, 2004





Another Even-Handed Look at Transracial Adoption



This article has some interesting stuff:



Transracial adoption ‘inherently racist’



Oh, and by the way, besides my professional involvement with transracial adoption, I am an adult transracial adoptee.





Posted by So Yung on November 21, 2004





Sometimes It's Hard To Be An Abductor



I love it when white people talk about issues of race and identity with such humor and light-heartedness, especially when it's abductors talking about their experiences walking their colored babies around in front of other 'way more ignorant' whites.



Here's an awesome article where this actually happens:

Adoptive parents want to know if you have any questions



Read it, love it, live it.



Posted by So Yung on November 21, 2004





"My abductors bought me on eBay"



Don't let this become a reality! Follow this link sent to us by Sunny Jo: Ban Online Auctions Orchestrated to Raise Funds for Individuals to Adopt Children From Overseas http://www.petitiononline.com/intladpt/petition.html



Posted by So Yung on July 18, 2004





Breaking News: African American Babies are Cheaper than White Ones!!

(But of course they are: Transracial adoption is a racist industry.

African and other 'third world' children are not merely cheaper but also easier to acquire by criminal means, and the west never bats an eyelid when doing it. See Madonna's controversial yet successful stealing - in plain sight - of one or more African children.)



Check out this article that just appeared in the Oregonian: The price(s) to adopt. For my commentary on American Adoptions and like agencies see Abducting on a Budget: Agency Policies on "Minority" Children, which has been on our website since, uh, February 2003.



Babies For Sale

Hey, check out this interesting article Sam-dol/Tobias told us about. It's from, like, '88.

[Husky]

And one more on the same topic (it's an important topic for all heathens from the "third world"):

Bought Colored Kids - The Coolest Accessory of the White Liberal “Left” By Kil Ja Kim

[Husky]

This is probably old news to others here and has likely been discussed to death in some IF thread. But I just saw this and thought it was worth posting nevertheless.

Very scary (but not unforeseen) stuff.

Wow they're moving fast to consolidate their grip of death and to utterly undermine Hindus in Hindus' own land. (Stove suddenly turned up more on The Frog In The Frying Pan.)





http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2011/05/c...-only.html

Friday, May 27, 2011

Communal Violence Bill punishes only the Majority Community says Arun Jaitley

may 27th, 2011 CE





---------- Forwarded message ----------

From:

Date: Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:38 PM

Subject: Communal Violence Bill punishes only the Majority Community says Arun Jaitley

To: esams Nayyar <esamskriti@suryaconsulting.net>





Key points

[color="#0000FF"]1. Law and Order is a state subject. If it becomes Law then the Centre would usurp the authority of States.

2. The Bill assumes that communal riots are caused by the Majority community only. Note the Indian Constitution does not define the word 'Minority'.

3. Rape is punishable under this bill if the lady belongs to a minority group. If lady is Hindu she is not covered by this bill.

4. So also A 'hate propaganda' is an offence against minority community and not otherwise.

5. No member of the minority community can be punished under this act for having committed an offence against the majority community.

6. Terrorists from the minority community shall create communal riots instead of terror strikes because they cannot be tried under this Law since assumption is only Hindus riot.[/color]



Wish the NAC and Courts spend time on convicting those responsible for Bomb Blasts in India starting with 1993 Mumbai blasts where case is pending with the Supreme Court for nearly 3 years.



Also read:

1. Who is a Minority by sanjeev nayyar - http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters...ity-1.aspx

2. Religious Apartheid in Modern India: Transforming of a Civilisation by Dr M Muthuswamy - http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters...ion-1.aspx

sanjeev

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/arun-j...110526.htm

BJP leader Arun Jaitley [ Images ] argues that it is a dangerous and discriminatory bill which presumes that the majority community is always to blame for communal violence

A draft of a proposed legislation titled 'Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence (Access to Justice and Reparations) Bill, 2011' has been put in the public domain. The draft bill ostensibly appears to be a part of an endeavour to prevent and punish communal violence in the country.



... deleted



Posted by nizhal yoddha at 5/27/2011 07:13:00 AM







Reactions:



3 comments:



Inferno said...

This post has been removed by the author.

5/28/2011 2:34 AM



Vijay said...

Would Jaitley/BJP raise this issue during election times? Not likely. All are after the minority votes.

5/28/2011 3:38 AM



m said...

Pakistan's anti-blasphemy law is implicitly anti-hindu, curtails free speech but it does not apply to a group clash; However, India's CVB is explicitly anti-hindu, automatically assumes that a hindu is guilty, and curtails free-speech and criticism directed at non-hindu faiths. In many respect, CVB is Supra Blasphemy law.

6/22/2011 5:09 PM

(That's why it's a *christian* bill. Islam/TSP is just not that clever/capable - of getting away with murder in broad daylight. Christianism IS.

Only christoislamism makes anti-Hindu laws. Only christianism has the brazenness to (1) come up with blatant and exclusively anti-Hindu - plus peculiarly pro-violent christoislami 'minority' - laws and (2) to pretend such laws are "secular" while getting to walk away unidentified as christianism. It's how you can *tell* it's christianism - if finger-pointing were allowed, that is.)

What's most amazing of all is that despite The Most Undemocratic behaviour by a govt - over and over again - Hindus no doubt think that all this anti-Hinduness can still be sorted out democratically. (The way the tyranny of the christoBrits, the christoPortuguese and the Mughals/other islamic tyrannies were democratically brought to a halt?)

[shamu]

Now Kerala temple art, Kathakali, gets appropriated...



[url="http://expressbuzz.com/states/kerala/now-kathakali-gets-a-catholic-expression/294921.html"]Now, Kathakali gets a catholic expression[/url]

[Husky]

[quote name='shamu' date='18 July 2011 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1310933245' post='112210']

Now Kerala temple art, Kathakali, gets appropriated...



[url="http://expressbuzz.com/states/kerala/now-kathakali-gets-a-catholic-expression/294921.html"]Now, Kathakali gets a catholic expression[/url]

[/quote]Even the title is interesting: the use of "expression".

All so-called "Hindu culture" is but an expression of Hindu religion.

Now they claim it is an "expression" of the christoterrorist catholic kind.



And again, we will see how powerless Hindus - especially the angelsk-speaking vocalist kind - will be in doing anything about this. They're always memorably powerless. Hindus give themselves no power in absolutely denying our enemies what is ours.

This is not a "prediction", this is just an extrapolation:

(Again you'll be fighting for everything that's yours by the end. (Why do Hindus allow - or rather, *invite* - this to happen?)







Should post it in full. It's full of entertaining gems.



http://expressbuzz.com/states/kerala/now...94921.html

Now, Kathakali gets a catholic expression

[color="#FF0000"]Babu K Peter[/color]

Express News Service

Last Updated : 17 Jul 2011 11:08:56 AM IST



KOCHI: Kathakali is no longer bound by [color="#0000FF"]Hindu mythologies or epics[/color]. It is set to make a foray into the heart of [color="#0000FF"]Christian religious[/color] beliefs. For the first time, the message and essence of Holy Eucharist (Qurbana) will be recreated through Kathakali. Jesus Christ will be presented in the costumes of a sage.

[color="#800080"]("Hindu mythologies vs Christian religion."

Now do your mathematical computation on what they just said. And what your angelsk-speaking Hindu "defenders" enabled them to say.)[/color]



The 90minute performance titled 'Divya Karunya Charitam' (Story of Holy Eucharist) is based on the poem 'Ithu Ninakkai' (This is for you) written by lyricist Fr Joy Chencheril.



The first performance is scheduled to be held at the Pastoral Orientation Centre on July 21. Major Archbishop of SyroMalabar Church Mar George Alencherry will inaugurate the show.



Apart from the concept, Fr Joy is giving consultation also. The script of the 'Divya Karunya Charitham' for the Kathalali form is written by [color="#0000FF"]Radha Madhavan[/color] and the choreography is by [color="#0000FF"]Kalamandalam Sajan[/color]. Eight dancers led by Sajan will give expression to the mystery of Holy Eucharist while Kottackal Madhu will sing the Kathakali songs.

[color="#800080"](All cryptochristians. With Hindu names of course. And at least some with a Hindu upbringing in Hindu religious "arts" too, no doubt.)[/color]



"Holy Eucharist is the sum and substance of Christian faith. We hope that Kathakali too will find a place on the Catholic Church premises where programmes such as cinematic dance, mimicry and music programmes dominate during festivals,'' said Fr Joy.



"The performance seeks to communicate the selfgiving message of Jesus. Holy Eucharist epitomises the sharing of love. Kathakali, because of its poise and rhythm, can well express this spirit of sharing the selfemptying love,'' he said.



Fr Joy and the team of artists led by Kalamandalam Sajan had begun their efforts for the innovative venture five months ago.



A member of the Missionary Congregation of the Blessed Sacrament (MCBS), Fr Joy has penned a number of popular Christian devotional songs. He has also won many awards for the best and popular Christian devotional song for his contributions to the devotional songs genre. Fr Joy is now working on a collection of songs for Bible dance.



[color="#FF0000"]"Art is important, not the religion,''[/color] said noted Kathakali artiste FACT Padmanabhan.

[color="#800080"](I did say. Notice the split: "Art... not religion" by that crypto. <- Could have seen these christo words/arguments coming.

More fool the dangerous angelsk-speaking Hindus who so easily and thoughtlessly sell off Hindu *religion* by speaking of "Indian" "culture/tradition/civilisation", or even Hindu "culture"/"art"/"architecture" - those are splittable for christians, it splits exactly at the word Hindu. The first is discarded, the latter appropriated for christianism.

It's Hindu *religion* and exclusively about our Gods. <- Should have said that and kept on saying it from the start.

Anyway, it won't work anymore of course. Since that genie is out of the bottle too. And as always, genies don't go back in. It's all Too Late.

If only Hindus bungling around with English had said the right words since the start - oh, but the right words DO matter: it most certainly is a war of words. That's another Gotcha: the fact that you should have known that, but you couldn't and so didn't until it was Too Late. They get you to say the words they want you to say and then ... "You Lose". It's like chess: where the better player gets the opponent to make false moves. Except you didn't even know you were in the middle of a chess game.)[/color]



"It's good if the [color="#0000FF"]story presented through Kathakali is digestive for the viewers[/color]. Shakespearean plays have been presented in Kathakali form and the people have accepted it,'' he said.



[color="#800080"](1. Hindu so-called "art" forms are considered Means To An End to propagate christianism among a Hindu population and among a just-converted ex-Hindu population that is both familiar with these things and needs to be coddled with a sense of "culture" which it actually fully and permanently lost when it abandoned Hindu religion. Actually, christianism isn't the only missionary religion to use inculturation. And Hindus were never good at protecting themselves from it.



2.Whose idea was it to put Shakespearean plays into Kathakali? They should stand up and take a bow. They are the ones to be congratulated for this mess also - even if they never intended *this*, it was only the natural result of their total lack of foresight. Stupidity does have consequences you know. And as always with Hindu bungling, it has consequences for all other Hindus.)[/color]

Christianism's aggressive takeover of Hindus' religion is more proof of overdrive (remember Greece/Rome and their religion stolen/appropriated/in[color="#FF0000"]cultur[/color]ated for christianism?) At this current rate, how long do the christians intend to leave the Hindus alive in the convert-or-kill programme?



But, like with 90% of every misery that's been Hindus' lot over the last X decades, it's Hindus own fault yet again. They (their slow deheathenisation) started it by treating their religion like an "art form" and - what was it - a "national integration" exercise. Well, inculturation - some 'Hindus' argue ecstatically - is a form of "integration" (as is the larger object: conversion). And when it comes to nationalism, does it *really* matter which direction the integration/conversion happens? (No.)



One of the comments:

Good Thing.. Don't try this for islam then there would be another chopping case (Joseph Hand)..

By Hussain

7/17/2011 12:08:00 PM

But christians are trying it for islam (see for example all over the Middle-East from Turkey to Iraq to Egypt to Algeria. Or even TSP for that matter <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> What culture there is to steal, one can only wonder.)







Hindus have been too long sidetracked by the various "nationalisms" to stick to the very part of their identity (the most important part) that is under attack. I was going to post the following drab paras yesterday in response to a Hindu wrongly describing as "national integration" the act of historical Hindus from various parts of Akhanda Bharatam coming to have darshanam of Padmanabha at his Kovil and offering something to Bhagavaan there. In the context of the first para to follow, consider how the christians in the above news piece contrasted "Hindu mythologies or epics" with "christian religion". Note also that by refusing to recognise Hindu religion as a religion - which is not just a crime the christians commit, but also a fatal error that Hindus themselves make when they speak in English -

by refusing to recognise Hindu religion as a religion, even Hindu "mythologies and epics" are now left open for christo appropriation, as was Hindu "art" and Hindu "culture" earlier. I.e. they will split the phrase after "Hindu" again.

"But why/how can they do it?: (Well, christianism is not the only missionising religion to appropriate others' religion - dubbed "mythology (epics)" - for itself. And the Why speaks for itself: it's the Why of inculturation.) Why do you think even the Indian rationalists/secularists that are frequently seen parroting Romila Thapar etc often describe at least Mahabharata (and at times Ramayanam) as an Indian secular "epic", "belonging to all Indians"?* They even try this with (at least parts of) the Vedam. Why do you think that is. Hint: it becomes "Indian" "history", Indian "heritage". At which point it ceases to be Hindu religion. And that's when you - I mean Hindus - lose even the last vestiges of what you have. (But those 'Hindus' who didn't know it is religion - but thought of it as culture/civilisation/Indian or even Hindu "heritage" - lost it back then itself.)



*These claims, like on the Mahabharata - of all things - are made in order so they too get to have something valuable without actually being a part of the religion: so they can have a share in the so-called "history, the culture" when they realise they have nothing else, or when finally it wrests even their worthless admiration for whatever reason. But it was never mere "history or culture": it's always been Hindus' religion. And non-Hindus simply have no right to any of it.





Anyway, yesterday's stuff. I think it relevant to the discussion on Religion, and that at least the core point (blue) is important and ought to have been said. By someone. At some stage. Long ago. Never seen a Hindu argue this in English though. Wish they had. ("If wishes were horses...")

[...]

[color="#0000FF"]It was *never* any mere "nationalist" considerations "regarding his empire" that motivated him [color="#800080"](Julian)[/color]. And needn't guess at what did, either: he regularly said, not to mention showed, what motivated him - to the chagrin of many modern hysterians/history re-writers who would have liked nothing better than to pretend that the Romans felt little to nothing for their Gods/religion - it would then have been easy to make it seem like a dying/meaningless religion - and that only christians had any attachment to their gawd and were thus ideologically motivated. Oh, but the Greeks and Romans were far more deeply connected to and thus motivated in life by their Gods=religion than the silly christians ever were by their evil ideology. And this last is the very contention of many heathens (not exclusively of the GR kind). It is also a very powerful, important and necessary argument - not the least because it is true.



The enemies of the many heathenisms always try to belittle the heathens' attachment to their religions/Gods, pretending that they were practically empty slates waiting around for 'salvation' schemes (on a smaller scale, that's what christianism has done by re-inventing devoted Hindoos as plain, unaffiliated 'dalits' complete with an invented history of unaffiliation). <- Such a tack is necessary for christianism to validate the christian argument: that only the christian gawd is True and all others are "false" (and hence cannot satisfy) and that, until christianism came, there was no true meaning, no true devotion to religion, that the heathens consciously/subconsciously felt a void or felt the inferiority of their religion when faced with the supposedly 'superior' monotheistic kind**; that all heathen experience is shallow, that it is no more than a shadow w.r.t. the supposed "depth" of feeling that christians feel for their non-existent entity. In reality, the situation is the complete inverse: whereas christianism/the jeebusjehovallah fantasy possesses victims' minds like a typical mindvirus, there are no people more attached to their Gods than the heathens, who are as a consequence immensely stubborn and so are the cause of great consternation to christianism (why was genocide of the stubborn and the later-developed social engineering/a careful deheathenisation programme necessary, if not for the very purpose of neutralising the heathenism in the heathens? Why were the inverse stories of "persecutions by the Roman Empire" and fictional martyrs invented - at times characters stolen straight from the historic GR heathen victims - if not to set up christianism as having the most attached adherents in the comparison? Christianism knows well what pull heathenisms/alien Gods have on their heathens - and it knows by very long experience that nothing will make the heathen come unstuck but 1) death or 2) getting the heathen to sever its own ties. That last is the greatest accomplishment of all (when fully succesful it's called conversion). Christianism knows what it's doing, and how to make - if not all heathens of all time, then at least many a Hindu of today - do *exactly* what it wants them to.



Note: The "heathens have no religion - no attachment to their religion=to their Gods" is a long-standing, frequent claim made by christianism since early times. It is still brought out as a trump card by christians, not just to overwrite the ancient Hellenes of history and hence the present, but also being turned on Hindus and Daoists now. (Daoists! Of all people. I mean, Hindu vocalists were *asking* for all this - angelsk-speaking examples galore - but I don't know any Daoists that ever invited this misery upon themselves.)[/color]





** E.g. You can hear echoes of this repeatedly in one film/novel set in Rome after another. "Ben Hur" has an old and weary Roman officer telling his younger and over-confident replacement Messala that, after hearing gossip of snatches of jeebus' supposed doctrines on how IIRC "gawd is near in every man" (stolen straight from GR religion actually, as also "for we are all the children of Zeus" etc) that "some of it is quite profound, actually". At which the obvious villain, Messala, sneers.

And at present I'm rewatching a well-executed decades-old British mini-saga about the Romans. And every now and then (since it's based on a modern obviously fictional novel by someone) it hits you over the head with nonsense about:



(a) how the heathen Romans and Greeks were plain unreligious and those that showed signs of religiosity just pretended. And yet, the same unreligious GRs, whenever they came into contact with christians, they were deeply moved by their blabbing on about jeebus and about a sense of justice which historic christians - including in the empire - never possessed. The one obvious and particularly good and irreligious unchristian GR - the one with a sense of justice - would clearly need to be introduced to christianism by the end of the show, since that was clearly what he was "waiting around for"



(b ) meanwhile, as a clear contrast to the supposed GR apathy in all things and especially religion, the christians supposedly felt deeply about their religion and were upright and righteous (complete with supposed concern for the rights of slaves, and gladiators in the arena, versus a totally callous/unmoved Roman aristocracy - and all this, when actually far more so-called "Pagans" protested about gladiators than christians ever did and GR Hellenes seriously worked to get slavery abolished when christianism was dead set against it and encouraged slavery, but see Joseph McCabe instead who narrates the facts so entertainingly.) Moreover, as a small note, christians in the show were professing views of christianism that wouldn't be invented until 2 centuries afterwards and not made official until 1/2 century after that.



and (c ) that the few truly religious GR Hellenes had their pious religiosity misplaced: worshipping 'false gods' at evil temples, in the charge of corrupt priests who were full of greed and powerlust and who did not themselves "believe" in what they wanted the GR population to "believe". And then at the end, the author has such token pious GR Hellenes of course transferring their piety to the "deserving" non-existence of jeebusjehovahallah by "seeing the light" and converting to christianism. (I.e. the usual modern missionary argument: "heathens were good, it was their heathenism that was at fault" - so the show separates such characters from their heathenism and gifts them to christianism.) Again, note the inverse to history where, in reality, it was the christians and their churches that were lusting for power, it was the christian priests that were false, powerhungry and moreover engaged in dubious activities - including very promiscuous pastimes for those pretending to be celibate - and that it was the entire christian hierarchy from pope to layman that was fickle: many an apostate, rather than martyr. (Again, see Joseph McCabe.)



But (a), (b ) and (c ) were to be expected: in reality, at the time the fictional story was set - some years after Nero - Roman history does not actually know of any christians (not counting the backward projection of christians in later times, such as the alleged christian persecution by Nero, for which later christians conveniently counted documented-Hellenistic - i.e. so-called "pagan" - victims as "christian" martyrs next to inventing characters, to offer as evidence for christians' existence at that time. Once more, see Joseph McCabe.)



You can see the same foreshadowing of "christian" concern yet with apathy for established [heathen of course] religion (i.e. the "they were waiting for christianism" lie) in the drab remake of Spartacus from the 90s/early 2000s.

"Gladiator" was the sole breath of fresh air, where the African friend at the end buries his Spanyard ("Gladiator") comrade's moorties - or whatever - with him, and you get to see glimpses of the gates to Elysium and beyond waiting to reunite the dying man with his wife, son and home. You know it is Elysium that is being referenced here, and not some generic afterlife (waiting to be stolen by christianism, as "heaven" for the "just man"), since the vocal track that plays is *called* Elysium. Not the greatest of films, but it has a few brief moments that are memorable (the little Caesar that admires the Spanyard Maximus, Connie Nielsen with a constantly furrowed brow, the part wear Maximus puts on his helm - very impressive, that it has any non-negative reference to Elysium).



I won't go over silly christian dawaganda epic technicolor films like The Robe etc (plus I watched that when I was under 10, so I can't really recall). But those are overt dawandanda and don't pretend to be otherwise.



Whereas, the just-mentioned Spartacus are christoconditioned ones: negating the "old religions" before christianism even came on the scene. The terrible film about the Iliad ("Troy" or something) was just as bad: the Gods entirely written out of the story - and they're *primary players* in the Iliad as they are in the Odyssey - except in brief references to "temples" such as to Apollo, and of course the "priestess" important to the story.



Intriguing is that IIRC in "Masada", Peter O'Toole's Roman officer has a dialogue with the other protagonist, the Jewish hero Elaizar Ben Yair (sp?) about the Zealot being a sort of cousin (?) to a much-gossiped about messiah character - whose given description in the film is very much that of jeebus of the gospels. (It's been many years, but I'm sure I can't recall that bit in the book - "The Antagonists" - that the tv show was based off of). In any case, this was a blatant case of the historisation of jeebus by insinuating him into the story, and note also that they're insinuating jeebus into an event that is important for Jews. When Masada has nothing to do with christianism or jeebus, but is important to Jews and Israel.

Enz.



About the blue bit:

Ah, it's but the tired old song of all the things Hindus should have been (stubborn heathens), should have done (been adamant, insistent on their heathenism, have unapologetically heatheny views on the Hindus' Gods like Julian etc did about his Gods/the Gods of his people), and all the things Hindus should have said (argued for their heathenism, not argue it away into invisibility or sell it off piecemeal at every opportunity).

[Husky]

http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011...augustine/

Leo Panakal: The man who nailed Lucifer – George Augustine

Posted on July 30, 2011 by IS



“The publication of Panakal’s thesis ‘Jesus = Lucifer = The Devil’ was released in 1988 in his own journal Insight in Kochi, Kerala, India. Established in 1971, Panakal’s journal ‘Insight’ was originally a mouthpiece of Traditionalist Catholics, funded by one of his brothers who was a priest in the US. Insight came to a stop in 1974, when his research on a Hindu god on behalf of and for Traditionalist Catholics ended in a brief but painful personal disaster for Panakal and his immediate family. … He confided in me years later that the commission he couldn’t accomplish for his sponsors was to prove that historically Krishna was a plagiarisation of Jesus Christ by the Hindus, which endeavour, however, enabled him a thorough and deep look at Hindu thought and literature.” – George Augustine





Leo Panakal will go down in history as the man who drove a stake through Satan Lucifer’s heart. If you are a gentle ordinary soul who doesn’t know who Lucifer is or doesn’t care, don’t tread here, for Leo Panakal had little patience for the lot of you when he was alive. Nobody knew very well what he was talking about while he was alive, so the chances are that you would know less now that he is no more on this earth. But Leo Panakal’s legacy is going to live on much more than you or I can surmise.



Looking back at those times when he was alive and talking to me, I now realise I was being initiated into the world of words and their meanings and the origin of them all – the scriptures – when he was explaining the involvement of Cain and Abel in ostensibly the first homicide that took place in a temple between the altar and the house in the Old Testament. In common parlance, this realm of scriptures is the world of the occult where the layman is welcome only at his own peril. With no assurance of a fit burial that would secure a decent afterlife, not many faithful, including ordinary apostates, would venture. But it doesn’t matter, for a dead body is just a dead body, savam as opposed to sivam, as Panakal used to say.



For those who are still reading this without having an inkling of who Lucifer is: Lucifer is Satan, the worst conceivable demon, the supreme devil, the personification of evil, the originator of lies, deceit and fraud, and if there is anything worse than that, that too. It is difficult to conjure Lucifer in a world of grey, for he has devised a grey camouflage around him, virtually like James Bond’s car in ‘Die Another Day’, projecting the landscape behind the car on the viewing side, making it indiscernible.



Lucifer stands between the gods and you, and pretends to be the ultimate god. While blending himself thus in the environment, Lucifer projects the aura of the gods behind him on his viewing side. Lucifer falsely claims to be the supreme god and that is his fault or sin for which he is destined to fall like the shooting star, for he too is subject to gravity. “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, …” Isaiah 14:12. (King James Version)



Typically, the scenario offers a challenge for the human hero to identify the wolf amongst the sheep, or the devil amongst the gods, the proverbial pretender. The devil is so well camouflaged in a spiritual blend that it is difficult to detect the fangs, horns and the tail. It is not supposed to be easy to identify the universal devil, for he pretends to be God, the perfection of goodness. Who is the devil who claims and pretends to be the only true god and sows so much evil on this earth? Who is the god who claims to have intervened in history by falling like a shooting star? Who is the fallen god called Lucifer in real life?



The publication of Panakal’s thesis ‘Jesus = Lucifer = The Devil’ was released in 1988 in his own journal ‘Insight’ in Kochi, Kerala, India. Established in 1971, Panakal’s journal ‘Insight’ was originally a mouthpiece of Traditionalist Catholics, funded by one of his brothers who was a priest in the US. ‘Insight’ came to a stop in 1974, when his research on a Hindu god on behalf of and for Traditionalist Catholics ended in a brief but painful personal disaster for Panakal and his immediate family. He had to be treated for schizophrenia for about six months. He confided in me years later that the commission he couldn’t accomplish for his sponsors was to prove that historically Krishna was a plagiarisation of Jesus Christ by the Hindus, which endeavour, however, enabled him a thorough and deep look at Hindu thought and literature.



The resurrection of ‘Insight’ came almost a decade after its lapse into non-existence. In the meantime after he recuperated from his illness with great suffering for himself, his wife and little sons, and started working for CNS and later for RNS, clawing back into reality, accepting its vagaries and imperfections in one stride. He became obsessed with Hindu scriptures, taught himself to read Sanskrit and discussed philosophically relevant issues with visitors, including those who came merely to see him and hear what he had to say and share his tea. The incredulous findings of Panakal’s interrupted research that got encapsulated in their title equation popped like a bombshell one fine morning in early 1986, more than a decade after he fell ill. He stopped his journalistic work and quit pot smoking completely and concentrated on his thesis. It took another two years for it to be published, but these years and their aftermath were a period of intense struggle for Leo Panakal and his family.



It was not so much the apostasy that characterised the headline of the reborn journal, but the utter incredulity of the statement that stopped people in their stride and forced them to swallow their tongues rather than challenge it. It was easy for most of his relatives and acquaintances (for friends were scarce) to regard him as a mad man from whom the ultimate in madness could be expected. Many of his ‘faithful’ visitors stopped their visits, but there were scores of new ones popping in, among them foreign tourists, to sample the exotic eccentric of Fort Cochin. Lucifer’s fall, Panakal said to all and sundry, is history and we are supposed to become aware of it only after Lucifer’s self-assured guarantee period of 2000 years was over.



Being his chief assistant at the time when he was filing his last stories for RNS with the byline ‘Lily F. Janet’ and propounding his earth-rattling proposition, I had the privilege of witnessing his thesis unfold like a small seed gradually sprouting into a gigantic tree with unbelievable ramifications for the religious and spiritual history. For the same reason, I was one of the first few who reviewed Panakal’s contention and challenged it, compelling him to delve deeply into the existing scriptures of all kinds to prove his thesis. Panakal’s methodology is impeccable: he proves his statement exclusively on the basis of the contents of the Christian bible, but in addition he displays data from Hindu scriptures and history to authenticate and demonstrate the verity of his contention.



My challenges were such an adrenaline rush for both Leo Panakal and I that we stayed awake till the wee hours for days on end and later when we met the next morning, he would resume discussion from the last thing we talked in the previous session. In due course, it became impossible for me to refute his metaphysical enterprise by the two markers of phenomenal reality, yukti and anubhavam. Yukti is more than logic. It is similar to it in that it is an instrument to verify consistency in a system, but it is more because it also demands the consistency to extend to objective and subjective human experience (anubhavam) at once, meaning any true object or proposition under scrutiny had to fit like a jigsaw puzzle in the canvas of objective and subjective experience. Anything that doesn’t fit into objective and subjective experience at once is a false proposition and unworthy to be accepted.



[color="#0000FF"]For a man who started out as a mainstream journalist, the ‘Jesus’ thesis is Leo Panakal’s pièce de résistance in the realm of investigative, spiritual journalism. Panakal served Reuters from 1958 to 1964 in the prime of his journalistic career. During this period, he co-edited Catholic News of India, the first-ever Catholic news agency in Asia, along with pioneering American Jesuit Father John Barrett and won laurels. However, true to his traditions, which he insisted were Hindu, he surrendered to the prevailing argument and reverted to Hinduism in May 2005, assuming the name Shivakumar. He died on May 19, 2007.[/color]



In my opinion, the thesis is as solid as it ever will be, but too dry and often pedantic for souls in various stages of evolution to comprehend or tolerate. For vested interests, Panakal’s claim is best left unchallenged, for none of them will ever be able to raise a valid argument against it. Religion will wither away, predicted Leo Panakal, once Lucifer’s identity becomes known to the wide world. His thesis can be checked out at the link below. Vijavaani, July 23, 2011



» Link: http://identitypublishers.org/insight/ins00.htm



» George Augustine author is a professional translator.

Have not yet read Panakal's work (don't know that I want to read more stuff related to the sordid bible....), just commenting on the above article:



Actually, western atheists and other critical bible experts in the west have argued for quite some time that gawd=jeebus=lucifer with reference to biblical self-incrimination (equivalence with "Morning Star" etc), as already mentioned in post 242 at http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index....e__st__240

The origin is the babble. As per the babble, lucifer (=the name of the fallen seraph(?) Satan; the rebel angel apparently had his own will which angels are not supposed to have) is addressed as the Morning Star. And elsewhere in the same babble jeebus is defined as the same Morning Star. As western ex-christians have long pointed out, that and other biblical statements makes jeebus=satan. In any case, believe in the one = believe in the other, christianism is a dualist religion regardless of whether they deny it. For an all-poweful god to be eternally opposed by the devil who yet helps him in his other role of tormenting the unbelievers for eternity shows that it's either dualist or gawd=satan. Anyway, the babble and the history of christianism/christian church is where this intimate connection and back-and-forth-osmosis between mainstream christianism and its satanism derives from.

While of course gawd=jeebus=lucifer (literally, see babble), they are also all equally non-existent. <- I'm not the first by far to say that either. (Neither was even Emperor Julian, although he said it most memorably.)

(However, in this context one may mention that some *other* heathen population(s) do think that christianism is a form of possession and they have been known to use "exorcism" rites to de-possess members of their population of christianism's effects upon deconversion and reversion.

I suppose the fact that Panakal suffered from temporary schizophrenia as his withdrawal symptoms from the mind-disease - prior to his finally ejecting it from his system to become totally free of it (after which he then naturally reverted) - is some indication in favour of the aforementioned *Other* heathens' view that christianism is indeed possession. I have actually heard the jeebus entity described as a demon by them as - to put in Hindu terms that can be understood by IF's audience - like the demon of the kali yuga. Certainly, one can't help notice that the mindvirus has been the bane of the world for nearly 2000 years - shy of some centuries, since christianism/the christoclass mindvirus is not as old as 2000 yrs, despite christians claiming the antiquity of their religion to be that much. And despite christianism being a curse upon the living all this time, it has only inexplicably grown from strength to strength, destroying so much that is good - Hellenismos, native Americans to name a few - and multiplied itself into new mindviruses. When great good can be destroyed and such great evil can prevail, one does at times so much wonder that it results in briefly giving a little unwilling contemplation to the descriptions of christianism/jeebusjehovallah by said Other heathens.)



An example of western people making the connection using the babble itself (it's no thesis like Panaka's, but shows that jeebusjehovallah=satan surely has been a suspicion among western people themselves):

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkb...n-the-same

God & Satan The Same?

"AND Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." (I Chronicles 21:1)



"AND again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." (II Samuel 24:1)



Comment

Here we have either a contradiction, a grave Biblical error, God and Satan working together, or the unmistakable interpretation that God and Satan "are" one and the same! Given that fundamentalists believe the Bible contains no errors or contradictions, then that leaves only the last two possibilities.



Note that the capitalized word "AND" appears at the beginning of each verse and the message appears at the beginning of each chapter.



Note also that the name Lucifer (another name for Satan) means light bearer, or morning star: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer to the ground..." (Isaiah 14:12)



The last page of the Bible reveals Jesus: "I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Rev. 22:16)



It should now become clear to the reader why some Satanist cults use the same Bible as the Christians.



(See also evil and good from God: Lamentations 3: 38-39)

Anyway, more interesting to me than pondering the "true" nature of His Non-existence Jeebusjehovallah is that the article is by one revert about another revert. (Don't know how proper their reversions are - no details given - but at least they sound to me to be deconverted from christianism. Certainly Augustine/Thumbaparambil(sp?), whose writings even I have come across more than once, has always sounded to me decidedly ex-christian.)



Other interesting things to be noted about the article:

even back in the 70s some "interests" with an agenda (catholic christians of course, they're always the more innovative among christianism) set a native christian footsoldier the task of working out a way to make Hindu religion pronounce itself to have been "christianism all along". They need that very much. Which is why they want to present e.g. "Shaivam" as separate from the rest of Hindu religion, so they can then reintroduce it as having been "christianism all along". It's why they desperately wanted to declare that Krishna was cloned from christianism (the famous desperate christian argument "Backwards in time!"): so they can tell Hindus that Hindus *should* be worshipping jeebusjehovallah, but are instead practising a "perversion of christianism" (= what christianism of recent centuries often describes heathenisms as). They do this all over the world were heathenism still exists, but I'm repeating myself (I think I already mentioned ShangDi).

When heathens cannot be dis-attached from their heathen Gods, christianism plots a longer path to lead the heathen into christianism: christianism's goal then is to identify all heathenism as "actually" being about jeebusjehovallah all along, to reinvent all heathen Gods as "actually" jeebusjehovallah, or christianism tries to falsify heathen Gods/religion as being but (false) clones of christianism (remember the early christian fathers accusing the Hellenes of having copied jeebus "backward in time", since they knew all of Hellenismos preceded their non-existent demon?), else christianism resorts to making heathenism presage christianism: where heathenism's history is rewritten as evolving towards/emptying into christianism. The latter at times uses "prophecies" (interpretations else even written in by christianism and islam into heathens' literature) to declare "christianism is your final destination, what your religion was all about".

For vested interests, Panakal’s claim is best left unchallenged, for none of them will ever be able to raise a valid argument against it. Religion will wither away, predicted Leo Panakal, once Lucifer’s identity becomes known to the wide world.

If anything kills the christoclass mindvirus without leaving another sham in its place, then: Sounds Good (am assuming "religion" in the above is a ref to the mindvirus). But just a note of caution: many people exposing the christianism/babble for being the evil sham it is have found that it takes more than one stab to kill the monster that is christianism. It's because christianism has a habit of silencing all discoveries of its falsehood, as even western people in the field of biblical scholarship have noted for centuries. To quote an expert - the same old example of Bronson Keeler again:



http://freetruth.50webs.org/B2d.htm#BibleScholarship

A Short History of the Bible, Being A Popular Account of the Formation and Development of the Canon, by Bronson C. Keeler:

The Authorities. The writings of the Christian Fathers, the ecclesiastical history of Eusebius - the oldest Christian history now extant - and the modern works, On the Canon of the New Testament, by Brooke Foss Westcott, D.D., and The Canon of the Bible, by Prof. Samuel Davidson, D.D., LL.D., are the sources from which the information must chiefly be drawn.

As some of the statements from Prof. Davidson will appear to the general reader quite remarkable, a word or two in explanation may be necessary. He is an Englishman, in the recognized head and front of the Protestant students of the world. He is eighty-three years of age, has spent a life in the study of these topics, is one of the ablest if not the ablest authority now living on the subject of the canon ... He was requested by the editors of the new edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica to write the article on the Canon for that work, and accepted the commission, supposing that what they desired was the facts. He told how the Bible had been made up, what books had been put in at different times and what left out, and that the Bible had not always consisted of just the books now in it. When the editors read the article, they declined to publish it as it was. They "mutilated" it, as Prof. Davidson says, and what was left after the eliminating process was completed now appears in the Encyclopedia as the article on the Canon. Prof. Davidson then published the original in book form, entitling it The Canon of the Bible, and in the preface he tells why he issued it. It is from that work that I quote so frequently.



[color="#0000FF"]The inexperienced person has little idea of the difficulty which the critical party finds in getting its facts before the public; nor of the systematic suppression used by the Christian press and clergy to prevent unpleasant truths concerning the Christian religion from coming out. There is not an orthodox religious newspaper in the world that will publish the facts concerning the origin of the Bible, which are given in these pages; there is scarcely a magazine in America that will publish them; and it is but recently that any newspaper would do so. Men who know the Christian theology to be untrue, have to get their audience as best they can.[/color]

-- A Short History of the Bible, Bronson C. Keeler, 1881

[Husky]

1. Christians are at it again: trying to insinuate their fake religion and its conconcted hystery into Indian history - the Muziris excavations, this time.

http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011...ia-report/

Dr. Nagaswamy nails false propaganda on St. Thomas – Media Reports

Posted on August 7, 2011 by IS



“When looking at the literature on the life of St. Thomas, it is not mentioned anywhere that he came to India.” – Dr. R. Nagaswamy



Thiruvananthapuram: The effort made by some interested quarters to link the Muziris excavations with the visit of St. Thomas Apostle has been criticised by eminent archaeologist and former director of the Tamil Nadu Archaeological Survey of India, R. Nagaswamy.



“When looking at the literature on the life of St. Thomas, it is not mentioned anywhere that he came to India. It is only a myth, which has now been connected with the excavations at Pattanam, near Kodungalloor,” the former visiting professor of Jawaharlal Nehru University told Express.



In fact, the ancient Muzirs port must have been located in Kodungalloor and not in Pattanam because all major ports in ancient times were situated at river mouths. And so it is safe to assume that Muziris was at Kodungalloor, where the river joins the sea.



He felt there was a hidden agenda by certain sections to propagate the idea that Muziris was connected to Pattanam, where St. Thomas is believed to have landed, and not with Kodungalloor.



Myth cannot be called history. Connecting myth with history could only create confusion and distort history, he said. “There is no substantial evidence to say that Pattanam is connected with Muziris. How was this conclusion reached? Those who claim to have found materials to connect Pattanam with Muziris have forgotten that these materials were also found in the eastern and the western costs of the country,” said Nagaswamy. – Express Buzz & IBNLive, Thiruvananthapuram, August 7, 2011



(Meanwhile ExpressBuzz - New Indian Express - carries the following christo piece

Include St. Thomas Church in Muziris says Bishop Dr. Joseph Karikkassery

Paravoor: St Thomas Church in Maliankara which was constructed as a historical monument of the visit of St Thomas Apostle, one of the twelve disciples of Jesus Christ, who landed in Maliankara in AD 52, should be included in the Muzaris Heritage Project, urged Kottapuram Bishop Dr. Joseph Karikkassery.



Bishop Karikkassery visited the church in Maliankara, the monument constructed to perpetuate the visit of the apostle.



St Thomas is believed to have disembarked from a trading vessel at Kodungalloor Maliankara and baptised several people in various parts of the country. Cardinal Tisserant representing the Holy See, had installed the historical monument at St Thomas Church in Maliankara.



Bishop Karikkassery was accompanied by Diocese Chancellor Fr. Nixon Kattassery and Procurator Fr. Tegy Thanippilly. They were received by Fr. Joshy Muttickal and Fr. Shyjan Panackal at the church. – Express Buzz, Paravoor, April 21, 2011





See also Acta Indica: The St. Thomas In India History Swindle and The New Ishwar Sharan Archive

And Sharan's own comments on the above:

IS, on August 7, 2011 at 7:13 pm said:



What Indian Christians ignore is the fact that there was no cross or crucifix associated with Christianity until after the 3rd century. Early Christians including Apostle Thomas were practising Jews and the cross was an abhorrent symbol for them because of its use for torture and execution by the Romans.



Christians borrowed the crucifix from the Greek Orphics after the 3rd century (go to bottom of page) as a symbol of identification. Prior to the 3rd century Christians used a fish symbol to identify themselves.



There was also no compiled Bible in the 1st century. That came after Emperor Constantine had various independent acts and gospels and Old Testament books edited and compiled into one book after the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century.



Associating Apostle Thomas with a cross and a Bible is simply ridiculous. These two items by themselves disprove the false history that Indian bishops are trying to foist on Indians.



[image captions:] Orpheus crucified 3rd century BCE / Ichthus or Christian fish symbol 3rd century CE

2. Found via the above. Nothing new (nothing that wasn't said at the old priestsofdarkness site, for instance) - but still, a more widely-recognised, publicly visible voice is saying it:

http://www.slate.com/id/2247861/

The Great Catholic Cover-Up - The pope's entire career has the stench of evil about it.

By Christopher Hitchens - Posted Monday, March 15, 2010, at 10:20 AM ET

Plus comments.



Excerpt:

There are two separate but related matters here: First, the individual responsibility of the pope in one instance of this moral nightmare and, second, his more general and institutional responsibility for the wider lawbreaking and for the shame and disgrace that goes with it. The first story is easily told, and it is not denied by anybody. In 1979,

[...]

Very much more serious is the role of Joseph Ratzinger, before the church decided to make him supreme leader, in obstructing justice on a global scale. After his promotion to cardinal, he was put in charge of the so-called "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" (formerly known as the Inquisition). In 2001, Pope John Paul II placed this department in charge of the investigation of child rape and torture by Catholic priests. In May of that year, Ratzinger issued a confidential letter to every bishop. In it, he reminded them of the extreme gravity of a certain crime. But that crime was the reporting of the rape and torture. The accusations, intoned Ratzinger, were only treatable within the church's own exclusive jurisdiction. Any sharing of the evidence with legal authorities or the press was utterly forbidden. Charges were to be investigated "in the most secretive way ... restrained by a perpetual silence ... and everyone ... is to observe the strictest secret which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office … under the penalty of excommunication." (My italics). Nobody has yet been excommunicated for the rape and torture of children, but exposing the offense could get you into serious trouble. And this is the church that warns us against moral relativism! (See, for more on this appalling document, two reports in the London Observer of April 24, 2005, by Jamie Doward.)



Not content with shielding its own priests from the law, Ratzinger's office even wrote its own private statute of limitations. The church's jurisdiction, claimed Ratzinger, "begins to run from the day when the minor has completed the 18th year of age" and then lasts for 10 more years. Daniel Shea, the attorney for two victims who sued Ratzinger and a church in Texas, correctly describes that latter stipulation as an obstruction of justice. "You can't investigate a case if you never find out about it. If you can manage to keep it secret for 18 years plus 10, the priest will get away with it."



The next item on this grisly docket will be the revival of the long-standing allegations against the Rev. Marcial Maciel, founder of the ultra-reactionary Legion of Christ, in which sexual assault seems to have been almost part of the liturgy. Senior ex-members of this secretive order found their complaints ignored and overridden by Ratzinger during the 1990s, if only because Father Maciel had been praised by the then-Pope John Paul II as an "efficacious guide to youth." And now behold the harvest of this long campaign of obfuscation.

[...]

The full piece at the link has some of the text linking to other articles, however it also contains an instance of a graphic nature. Nothing that people familiar with the facts of christoislamania's vileness would be ignorant of. Still, fair warning and all.

[rhytha]

Nayanthara converts to Hinduism



The latest development in the Prabhu Deva - Nayanthara love story is that the latter has changed her faith! The actress was spotted in Chennai and it is reported that she completed the prescribed religious rituals that would allow her to become a Hindu. The proceedings took place at the Arya Samaj temple and apparently it was a moving and very spiritual experience for the actress.



A certificate was issued to her, declaring her newfound status as a Hindu. Originally a Catholic who was christened Diana Kurian, she will no longer go by that name. Her screen name, Nayanthara will now be her legal name. The actress was reluctant to talk about her conversion and refused to discuss Prabhu Deva or her impending marriage. But she has confirmed that she is now a Hindu and would only admit that the reason for the change was personal and the decision was arrived at only after a lot of soul searching.



It may also be recalled that Prabhu Deva's fist wife had also converted from Islam to Hinduism and she changed her name from Ramlath to Latha.



http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-n...08-11.html



hehe <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Husky]

^ It's not made clear whether Prabhu Deva's 1st wife converted because of her choosing to marry him or for her own reasons, but for Nayanthara - her past record supports that it's quite likely she reverted of her own. She was already since long seen going to Hindu Kovils and, when caught, stated simply that the Devi of the Kovil she'd just been at had always brought her good fortune. And apparently she donated to Kovils her weight in gold/grains/other helpful things from her salary. She didn't need to do that, but she did.



Obviously marriage to a Hindu affords her the opportunity (as it certainly does other shake-nines among the abducted native population) to make their reversion official and have it sanctioned by religious ceremony. But some people are born heathens, and for all we know, this lady with the two Divine names may even be one of them. (She's fortunate in that there is still a proper Hindu religion to revert to that can enable her to know her ancestral Gods.) Whatever be the case, the matter obviously means enough to her to choose to remain private about her reversion - beyond clarifying that it is solely for personal reasons (a.o.t. trite and invalid ones like "my fionce is a Hindu") and that it is of significance to her.





The topic of christianism's mass Hindu child abduction scheme/industry is very important. Some further articles from the TransRacialAbductees site that Dhu found -



1. Old article, but makes it very clear that christianism (complete with ueber christian motivations) is behind the baby-stealing/selling racket of transnational abductees, as was already the case in South Korea.

An absolute must read, IMO.



Native christians worked hard to dissuade unwilling but poor and vulnerable heathen S Korean mothers from keeping their wanted children. And you can tell the mothers (hence kids) were heathen, because the christians boast triumphantly that their christian organisations in this way make sure that these children become christians in life (the native christian kidnappers sell the children to alien christian ones). And the native christians make a pretty penny out of the stealing. The only money the many christian Korean "orphanage" adoption centers spent was to maintain the mothers during their pregnancy, even as these were being mentally tormented and discouraged into giving away their children. It's all there in the article:



http://www.transracialabductees.org/poli...ssive.html

Babies for sale. South Koreans make them, Americans buy them

by Matthew Rothschild

The Progressive, January 1988

Read in conjunction with the many news articles on IF and other Indian sites about christian orgs (with native christian + international contacts) literally kidnapping Hindu children from their parents and communities and selling them overseas for christianisation ("adoption"). And the older article "Sins of the missionaries: evangelism's quest to conquer the world" a copy of which is at http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?op...&Itemid=26 is exactly about the Indian case: Indian christians kidnapping Hindu babies from their parents and families.





2. http://www.transracialabductees.org/poli...otype.html

Which starts with:

When Ethnic Stereotypes come true

The Embodiment of Colonial Fantasies



After years of having critically studied the ugly phenomenon of international adoption, I have come to the conclusion that the worst aspect of the practice is what must called the final triumph of the colonial project, namely the international adoptees as the perfect stereotypes. [...]

3. http://www.transracialabductees.org/poli...udget.html

Abducting on a budget: Policies on "minority" children

[...]

What it boils down to is that "African-American or Bi/multi-racial (any race combined with African-American heritage) newborns/infants" in the "Minority" program cost way less than babies in the "Traditional" program, anywhere from $4,000 to $16,000 less, with no up-front fee required.

[...]

[Husky]

A comment at http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2011/08/c...s-his.html

8/04/2011 2:04 PM

witan said...



OT Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati murder case to be probed afresh

• "High Court order follows material available in two writ petitions pending disposal
  
  
• Local church spoke of eliminating the seer just prior to his murder, allege appellants
  
  
• Police let off two persons found washing blood-stained clothes in a pond two days after murder"
  
  

And here's the Chindu article which the above comment linked to:



www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article2323609.ece

Today's Paper » NATIONAL

CUTTACK, August 5, 2011

Laxmanananda murder case to be probed afresh

Correspondent



High Court order follows material available in two writ petitions pending disposal



The ongoing trial of the Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati murder case in a lower court in Kandhamal district is likely to take a new turn as the Orissa High Court on Thursday directed the State Crime Branch Police to file a fresh charge sheet.



A single-judge Bench of Justice M.M. Das asked the prosecution to file the charge sheet after conducting further investigations into the case based on material made available in two writ petitions pending disposal in the High Court.



The seer's disciple, Brahmachari Madhav Chaitanya, informant and key eyewitness in the case, and Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Durga Prasanna Kar had filed two separate petitions in the High Court seeking an impartial enquiry by an independent agency — preferably the Central Bureau of Investigation — into the murder of the Hindu spiritual leader who was attacked several times before he was murdered in August 23, 2008 during the Janmashtami celebrations at the Jaleshpeta Ashram. The petitioners alleged that although the Crime Branch Police had submitted two charge sheets in the case naming 14 accused, they had not investigated the role of a local church, which had reportedly passed a resolution in the presence of a senior State government officer just prior to the incident that the seer would be eliminated in order to restore peace in the district.



Pointing out discrepancies in the investigations, the petitioners also brought to the notice of the High Court that just two days after the seer was murdered, two persons were apprehended by some locals while they were washing blood-stained clothes in a pond. The two were handed over to the police, who freed the duo under the pretext that they were not involved in the case as was revealed in a lie-detection test.



Alleging that the Crime Branch Police were unnecessarily beating about the bush, Madhav Chaitanya told the court that although he was the informant and key eye witness in the case, he was neither examined by the prosecution nor was any test identification parade conducted for him to identify the nine accused who have since been arrested by the Crime Branch Police.

[color="#800080"](Sounds pretty much like christian "justice" alright.)[/color]





Trial in fast track court

A fast track court in Kandhamal district is currently holding trial in the case. The lower court has been restrained from passing any judgment in the case without the permission of the High Court.

(Is that common?)

• Local church spoke of eliminating the seer just prior to his murder, allege appellants
  
  
• Police let off two persons found washing blood-stained clothes in a pond two days after murder
  
  

[HareKrishna]

Orthodox christian priests dancing.This show that christians are more weird then we though.

http://webtv.realitatea.net/actual/preotii-dansatori

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpjD-unzg...re=related

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.utahkrishnas.org/index.php?op...Itemid=390



ISKCON Hungary Stays Positive in the Face of Legislative Changes

By Madhava Smullen for ISKCON News on 6 Aug 2011



In Hungary, a new proposed legislation, which would have declared the equality of all registered churches including ISKCON, was changed at the last minute to exclude all Eastern religions and require them to re-register under stringent new conditions.



Depending on whether re-registration is accepted without a hitch or not, the new bill could simply be a passing inconvenience, or it could introduce sweeping changes that would be unfavorable to ISKCON.

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.utahkrishnas.org/index.php?op...Itemid=390



ISKCON Hungary Stays Positive in the Face of Legislative Changes

By Madhava Smullen for ISKCON News on 6 Aug 2011



In Hungary, a new proposed legislation, which would have declared the equality of all registered churches including ISKCON, was changed at the last minute to exclude all Eastern religions and require them to re-register under stringent new conditions.



Depending on whether re-registration is accepted without a hitch or not, the new bill could simply be a passing inconvenience, or it could introduce sweeping changes that would be unfavorable to ISKCON.

[HareKrishna]

[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='12 August 2011 - 06:14 AM' timestamp='1313109380' post='112443']

http://www.utahkrishnas.org/index.php?op...Itemid=390



ISKCON Hungary Stays Positive in the Face of Legislative Changes

By Madhava Smullen for ISKCON News on 6 Aug 2011



In Hungary, a new proposed legislation, which would have declared the equality of all registered churches including ISKCON, was changed at the last minute to exclude all Eastern religions and require them to re-register under stringent new conditions.



Depending on whether re-registration is accepted without a hitch or not, the new bill could simply be a passing inconvenience, or it could introduce sweeping changes that would be unfavorable to ISKCON.

[/quote]

I have meet whit a 3 hungarian ISKCON acharya last year in Bucarest .We eat prasadam and sing some devotional songs.Personally i wasnt so pleased that they have with them pictures with Jesus and other christian saints.I try it to explain to them that christianity is no friend of iskcon and that doctrinary diferences are ireconciliabile.But to no avail .Maybe this time they will recognise that i was right.

[Husky]

Crossposting the following from the Jeebus is unhistoric (i.e. never existed) thread.





<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

"The truth will out, 'tis said"





(1) jesusneverexisted.com/

Faking the evidence

[color="#0000FF"]Ultraviolet light reveals that a manuscript of Tacitus has been overwritten, an original "e" of chrestianos (the good) replaced by an "i" to read christianos (the Christians),[/color]

The above links to:

jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#chrestos

Update: The probing eye of science



[color="#0000FF"]11th century monk[/color] corrects Tacitus: "Goodies" to read "Christians"!



Ultraviolet photo of a critical word from the earliest known extant manuscript of Tacitus (second Medicean, Laurentian library, Italy).



The photograph reveals that the word purportedly used by Tacitus in Annals 15.44, [color="#0000FF"]chrestianos ("the good"), has been overwritten as christianos ("the Christians") by a later hand[/color], a deceit which explains the excessive space between the letters and the exaggerated "dot" (dash) above the new "i". [color="#0000FF"]The entire "torched Christians" passage of Tacitus is not only fake, it has been repeatedly "worked over" by fraudsters to improve its value as evidence for the Jesus myth.[/color]



[...]

Links to:

www.textexcavation.com/documents/zaratacituschrestianos.pdf

The Chrestianos Issue in Tacitus Reinvestigated by Erík Zara © 2009



(Why this matters: Tacitus is held up by christians as one of the "proofs" of historicity of jeebus. IIRC, NT biblical scholarship had been contending for some time that this was a later interpolation. Now comes the hard scientific proof that the convenient insert was indeed a forgery concocted late.

"Why would christians do that?" Because christians had no proof for jeebus and no proof for so-called "early christians" and needed to manufacture this. Which they did: they inserted "proof" into more than one ancient source.)





(2) Some biblical quotes featured on the main page.

jesusneverexisted.com/



Biblical self-reference to christianism being a mindvirus:

"For the weapons of our warfare are casting down imaginations ... and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."

– St Paul, 2 Corinthians 10.4,5.

The all-important definition of christian love from the bible

Loving enemies?



"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed!"

– 1 Corinthians 16.22.

[Husky]

Another crosspost from the Unhistoricity of jeebus thread:

[quote name='Husky' date='23 August 2011 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1314110299' post='112569']

<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



As per the modern christian credo, their "jesus" is supposed to have died when he was either 33 or 38 years of age (the christians can't agree), or even somewhere in between.

But bear in mind that that's what modern christians - removed by over a millennium from their fable - claim.



Now here is what *famous* early christians (closer to jeebus' purported time) claimed about when jeebus was born and when he died:



http://jesusneverexisted.com/orthodoxy.html

What DID the Early Christians Believe?

[color="#0000FF"]"Jesus still alive in the reign of Trajan" – said 2nd century bishop Irenaeus. [Trajan[/color] [color="#800080"]reigned[/color] [color="#0000FF"]98-117 AD]



"Jesus born before Herod the Great" – said 4th century bishop Epiphanius. [Herod 73-4 BC][/color]

[...][/quote]

[Guest]

Has anyone read this blog? Scary! Also, I wonder what happened to the person who was blogging. Nothing after this first blog entry



http://indianintelli...092853738133747

[Husky]

^ Link is broken. Reposting from other thread containing full link

[quote name='Niki' date='24 August 2011 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1314155992' post='112575']

Check this about Sonias origins



indianintelligence2009.blogspot.com/2009/09/playing-with-nations-choices.html?showComment=1311989346282#c5407092853738133747

[/quote]



There's no detail of fact in the theories presented that can be checked by third parties. I'm not saying anything is untrue or totally off track, but it's hardly the sort of article that can be presented anywhere where hard evidence is demanded. That is, the writer hasn't provided anything that Hindus could use. At best, he's alleviated his conscience.



Still, you (Niki) could post the link you found at all the Hindu and Indian nationalist sites like Sharan's bharatabharati wordpress blog, HK, RRajan's VigilOnline, SJain's Vijayvaani, the Rajeev2004 blogspot blog. And any other nationalist sites you know. They could perhaps run with it after throwing details/indicators/references to support it that's been discovered in the years since. (I still think the descriptions of the murders in the dynastic family sound very much like the catholic Mafia murder of Vatican Banker Calvi - IIRC the one who was keeper of the Vatican's ustashe and nazi loot, until things became too hot for the Vatican's "Nazi Gold".)





The one thing that lends some credence in favour of the person who wrote the article is their saying the Indian Intelligence was under the impression that Prabhakaran was catholic. Because, elsewhere, news is supposed to have said he was a methodist. Since it was close to the mark, but perhaps mistaken on the final detail, I guess one could read this as an indication in favour of actual intelligence gathering...?



Christianism's plans for southern India (from SL's territory where SL Tamizhs reside, TN and beyond) is frequently said to be directed by the catholic church operating in the south (i.e. the brains behind the "south India for christ" operation). Again, many catholic syrian christians involved - often with friends in high places. It was, after all, a catholic (syrian christian, from Kerala) who got the first - of IIRC many - exclusive interviews with Prabhakaran, the christian head of LTTE. The syrian catholic then also wrote at least one book on SL called "Isle of blood". And she happened to marry the Norwegian Ambassador. Oh what a coincidence. With infamous Norwegian Eric Solheim was best man at their wedding. "Curioser still."

Curious is also that the majority of Norway is not catholic, it's identified as a protestant country. (Of course that says nothing about what brand of christianity her current husband and his best man, Solheim, were. But ultimately, protestantism folds into catholicism anyway. And all christianisms can be seen these days scratching each others' backs. Heck, christianism even gives out free massages to islam, depending on whether there's any heathenism on the scene to gang up against.)



Repeat of summary of Anita Simon from an older post, #126 of the SL thread (which contains the supporting news links for the following statements)

Anita Pratap:

- Indian, not Sri Lankan

- journalist. Started in Indian Express. Wrote for Sunday and India Today.

- at one point was a journalist for CNN (no longer) and Time too.

- writer for Outlook



It gets more interesting:

1. She's not Tamil, but from Kerala.

2. She's a Kerala Syrian christian catholic. Of course. Her name - before she married her first husband - is Anita Simon.

3. Her first husband was a Hindu and they had a son called Zubin (after the Parsee orchestra conductor???). They got on badly, divorced and she got custody over their son.

4. She met the Norwegian ambassador to India at some party (on Valentine's day, perchance?) and married him.

5. Guess who the best man at this christoterrorist wedding was? Yes, none other than buddy Eric Solheim.

6. Eric Solheim gifted Prabhakaran - christoterrorist and head of christoterrorist LTTE - a TV, because Solheim apparently knew that christian Prabhakaran was obsessed with watching TV. (Not my interpretation, see data further below.) Sounds like Solheim knew Prabhakaran well enough.

7. Anita Simon still keeps her Hindu ex-husband's surname. Crypto-christianism is important in a christoterrorist's line of work.

8. In 1984, back when her journalistic career was still starting off, Anita Simon became the first person to ever interview Prabhakaran and he became so fond of his christoterrorist link with the press, that he gave her many more interviews to tell his side of the story.

Note how it was in 1984, how she is a christian, how she was still starting up in the field and yet how she magically bagged an interview with a terrorist who hadn't been interviewed yet. It's a miracle! Yes. That must be what it is. Makes one wonder: was Prabhakaran already a (crypto) christian convert by 1984?

9. Deeply moved by the lifestory of the head of the christoLTTE, Anita Simon - like her fellow Kerala Syrian catholic christoterrorist Suzanna Margaret 'Arundhati' Roy - decided to write a book. Called Island of Blood. And yes, it would include her views on Sri Lanka.



So, here's the supporting data for the above.

[...]

And of course the memorable quote:

"He was H.E. Arne Walther, Norwegian Ambassador to India, and 15 years older than her. Anita agreed to marry him. Now she is Her Excellency Anita Walther."