<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Butchers of Lord Rama and Jallianwala Bagh </b>
V SUNDARAM
    On Vaisakhi day (the Sikh Har vest Festival) on 13 April, 1919 about 20,000 men, women and children, including Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians had gathered for a peaceful protest meeting against a set of draconian laws known as the Rowlett Act which gave the British rulers sweeping powers such as press censorship, detention without trial, and arrest without warrant. A British officer called Brig-Gen Reginald Dyer, blocked the only exit from the enclosure and, without any warning, ordered his troops to fire into the crowd. Official records said 381 people were killed and 1,600 wounded.
    The Jallianwala Bagh record of British Raj was put to political shame on 14 September, 2007 when the Central Government filed an affidavit in the Supreme Court to the effect that ?Lord Rama is a myth. Tulsi Das's Ramcharitmanas is only a mythological text, etc. etc.? Thus the Central Government gave a death blow to the cherished feelings, emotions and sentiments of millions of Hindus in India and abroad for whom Lord Rama is an incomparable God and a timeless Hero.
    <b>Islam-embracing, Christianity-coveting and Hindu-hating UPA Government, very much like the regime of Lt Governor Sir Michael O'Dwyer, the Governor of the Punjab at the time of Jallianwala Bagh massacre in 1919, has been implementing a similar programme of cultural and spiritual genocide against the innocent Hindus of India ever since it came to power in May 2004. </b>
Taking hourly instructions from Sonia Gandhi, our effete Prime Minister has been nominally in-charge of this cultural pogrom of the Hindus with active assistance from all the Communist Parties, the DMK, the RJD, the LJS and others forming part of the UPA coalition in New Delhi. I am only reminded of the savage attack made by Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer, Army Commander of Jullundur who ordered his men to shoot indiscriminately against more than 20,000 Indian patriots at Jallianwala Bagh in Amristar town on 13 April, 1919. With the same spirit of calculated vengeance, Sonia Gandhi, showing no allegiance to the Indian Constitution, is using the servile trio of Union Minister for Law (lessness?) H.D. Bhardwaj, Union Minister for (Non or un?-) Culture, Ambika Soni and the Union Minister for Sh(k)ipping and Transport, T R Baalu to launch her favourite programme of attacking the Hindus and their sentiments through the destruction of the Rama Sethu Bridge using the cover of the Sethu Samudram Canal Project (SSCP).Â
After completing the massacre at 5.15 p.m. at Jallianwala Bagh on 13 April, 1919, General Dyer declared Martial Law and passed the famous CRAWLING ORDER. In the hours when Indians were allowed out of their houses, between 6 in the morning and 8 at night, they had to crawl. This was enforced at bayonet point. People had not so much to crawl as to wriggle along on their bellies. Even the smallest violation during the enforced act of crawling was punished by flogging. The anti-Hindu trio in the UPA Government referred to above is restlessly engaged in enforcing a State-sponsored programme of making all the Hindus of India crawl on their bellies even for their constitutional and human rights. The disgraceful Sachar Committee is a classic instance in point.
  In the murky mire of Indian politics today, most of our politicians have no more independence in politics than there is in jail. A political war in India is one in which everyone shoots from the lip. The UPA Government's political machine is a united minority against a divided majority. For petty politicians like Ambika Soni, T R Baalu and Karunanidhi, politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. In my view, the barbarously stupid affidavit filed by the ASI in the Supreme Court opened the surest road to total national destruction in this glorious era of ever-widening vistas of globalisation of business and universalization of knowledge.
   <b>There was only one Gen Dyer who acted on behalf of the British Government against the people of India at Jallianwala Bagh in 1919. Tragically for Indians as a whole and more particularly for the hapless Hindus today, there are countless Union Cabinet Ministers (Gen. Dyers in spirit) in waiting and in combat readiness to take marching orders from Sonia for the cultural (Hindu) decimation of India as a Nation. After all she is fighting against whom? Our own men!! By our own men!! Through our own men!!! All for the sake of her benefit and her family!!! Although the motive behind this is not revealed in black and white, it is well-known that her hidden agenda is to destroy Hinduism in Hindustan at any cost.</b> That is why I have viewed the recent categorically anti-Hindu affidavit filed by the ASI in the Supreme Court of India as 'anti-Hindu visitation of Jallianwala Bagh'. General Dyer fired more than 1500 rounds of bullets on that fateful day on 13 April, 1919. Sonia and her company today are launching a multi-pronged, multi-programmed, multi-dimensional State-sponsored and State-aided assault on Hindus and Hinduism in general and Lord Rama and Rama Sethu in particular.
  In order to appreciate the ruffled, frayed and hurt feelings of millions of Hindus in India and abroad, it will be instructive and useful to delve deep into the history of Jallianwala Bagh massacre in 1919. All the Hindus of India, shattered and battered by the pseudo-secular anti-Hindu programmes and polices of the UPA Government in New Delhi, are, I am afraid, being compelled to derive their total inspiration to wage a non-violent civil disobedience movement to lead a life of dignity on par with the privileged citizens belonging to the minority religions which are being fully supported by the might of the Central Government. I am only expressing my deep concern about the inevitability of this possibility in the event of Central Government continuing to maintain the same anti-Hindu stance in all their major programmes and policies.Â
Â
    The Rowlett Act was a law passed by the British Raj in India in March 1919. Mahatma Gandhi was extremely critical of the Rowlett Act and wrote to the Viceroy informing him that he intended to start a campaign of civil disobedience in March/ April 1919. On 29 March 1919, a meeting was held at Jallianwala Bagh. Dr Satyapal and Dr Kitchlew were expected to address the meeting. The police served an order on both of them prohibiting their speeches. The hartals on March 30 and April 6, 1919 at passed off peacefully. Brigadier General Dyer reached on 11 April 1919. From that moment he behaved as if the city was under Martial Law, though it was not formally declared till 15 April, 1919...
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The remainder of the article (along with relevant photos) may be accessed at http://www.newstodaynet.com/2007sud/sep07/210907.htm
Received via email.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->On behalf of all Muslims who believe in reason and sanity, I declare that the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) affidavit (since withdrawn) questioning the existence of Sri Ram was vitriolic, scathing, unfortunate and blasphemous - not just to Hindus but to all those who cherish our pluralistic cultural heritage. How can a government decide the veracity of a figure like Sri Ram?
He Ram ke wajood pe Hindostan ko naaz/Ahl-e-nazar samajhtey hein usko Imam-e-Hind!
Iqbal, the poet of the East, has written a wonderful and moving poem on the authenticity of the existence of Ram. Logic and science have their say but not in matters of faith. In a nation where religion percolates to all levels of culture, secularism and modernity, themes like Ram, Mohammed, Mary and Moses are all interwoven within the existence of the people. A denial can drive people into a frenzy.
As Sri Sri Ravi Shankar rightly puts it, one cannot dismiss Sri Ram as a mythological character just because a lot of miracles were reported in his life and there are no scientific evidences to prove them. There were unproven miracles in the lives of the religious figures of every faith. Just because we can't prove the parting of the Red Sea, we can't say that Moses was a fictitious figure. Just because there were miracles in the lives of Jesus, Moses and Mohammed, you cannot call them mythical figures.
Historical evidence of most of the eminent religious figures would be difficult to find. Nevertheless, the authenticity of Ram's reality cannot be doubted, as most legends and myths have their roots in real incidents and actual happenings of religious figures. So far as Ram is concerned, there are numerous places in India and Sri Lanka closely linked to his life including Ayodhya, Janakpuri, Dhanushkodi and Rameswaram.
The whole debate about whether or not Lord Ram existed or not is redundant. Even if he did not exist, this is not going to diminish his importance because he actually exists in the hearts of not only Hindus but also Muslims. According to Islam, 120,000 messengers were sent to the earth. According to Muslim belief, Ram not only exists but also is part of the community's religious legacy.
Nearly a billion Hindus believe that Ramayana happened and that Ram existed. If there is no archaeological evidence to this effect, it is something for ASI to keep in their records, not for a secular government to pronounce from rooftops.
<b>To a Muslim it is a surprise that it is only the Hindu groups that have taken umbrage at this affidavit. The average Hindu is by and large silent. In contrast Muslims would have risen en masse in protest against such blasphemy.</b>
Ram is entrenched deeply in the minds of a vast majority of people of all faiths, including Muslims of Indonesia. Ram is the Maryada Purushottam to all irrespective of caste, creed or faith.
<b>Questioning a largely tolerant and pluralistic people to provide proof that their god actually exists is driving them to aggression. The weakness lies here with the Congress party, which time and again has failed to handle sensitive issues pertaining to faith.</b>
However, the Congress was able to salvage some ground by withdrawing from the Supreme Court the offending affidavit questioning the existence of Ram. But the secular credentials of this government have been sacrificed.
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<i>The author is a commentator on social, educational and religious issues and the great-nephew of Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. He can be reached on firozbakht@rediffmail.com</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So now they are feeding different info, just to divert blame from DMK or PM or Sonia.
This issue was so big, it is not possible, how they handles this, trusting too much on Babus.
If you see, after this issue, Left is not crying loud on Nuclear issue, they know they are roasted. This gave oppurtunity to Moron SIngh to do work for his real master. Only ground reality will make UPA's others to say bye bye to UPA, at this moment they are scared, COngres had given 2008 onward rule to BJPÂ in platter.
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This was a diversion so that the focus of the people is away from the nuke deal.
The Indian public and elite is unable to figure this out.
The out of the way method to get the affidavit was a plan to invite this controversy and also see some action so that BJP and parivar stumble and make headlines for the wrong reasons
why not invite V SUNDARAM in India-Forum ?
e-mail the writer at vsundaram@newstodaynet.com anyone up for the idea?
<b>BJP HQs, Hindu Munnani office attacked in Chennai </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Chennai, Sept 23: The BJP headquarters and Hindu Munnani office in the city were attacked today by alleged DMK supporters protesting the reported `fatwa` by former BJP MP Ramvilas Vedanti against DMK patriarch and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi.
Sethusamudram: Divide over the bridge
The houses of BJP`s Tamil Nadu unit President H Raja and his father-in-law were also attacked allegedly by DMK men at Karaikudi in neighbouring Sivaganga District late last night.
Hundreds of alleged DMK workers today ransacked the BJP`s Tamil Nadu unit headquarters in the city while staging a demonstration against Vedanti`s reported `fatwa` against Karunanidhi for his remarks against Lord Ram.
They pelted stones and damaged vehicles parked inside the office complex and broke the flag mast of the party after ransacking the office and breaking the window panes.
State general secretary of the party, Tamizhisai Sounderrajan, and some other workers were injured in the stone pelting. A policeman also sustained injuries in his leg.
.......
<b>BJP condemns attack</b>
Condeming the attack on its headquarters here and the house of its leader H Raja the Tamil Nadu unit of BJP today said it would petition the state Governor seeking the dismissal of the DMK government.
A core committee meeting of the unit would be held tomorrow after the return of state leaders from the BJP`s National Executive meeting in Bhopal and after that they would meet Governor S S Barnala, BJP state vice-president G Kumaravelu told reporters at the party office. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Attack on BJP in Chennai "political fascism": BJP </b>
Looks like attack on Karuna's daughter was DMK work to attack on BJP in TN. These moron have no idea how people will react to TN citizens who live outside TN.
Stalin admirer's doing a Paki back-paddle now?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->âFrom the beginning, we have not said that the navigable route [connecting the Gulf of Mannar with the Palk Bay] should be shaped by destroying the Ramar bridge. Nor do we say so now. All we say is that the project should be completed speedily,â he told journalists.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mr. Karunanidhi said there was nothing wrong in conveying the truth. Repeating what was written about someone could not be construed as hurting anyone.
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Hey, how about some 'truth' about other religions too? Forget religion, when there was 'truth' in newspapers about your kiddos popularity just 2 or 3 months ago, there were riots on street and people died. Administration accountablity?? Zilch.
Hari Shankar Vyas in Pioneer writes
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Sources, however, say that the affidavit was drafted at the level of ASG Gopal Subramaniam working under the Law Ministry. He hails from Tamil Nadu and is said to be close to Chief Minister Karunanidhi and Surface Transport Minister TR Balu.</b>
Probably, like his mentor Karunanidhi, Balu too, doesn't believe in the existence of Ram and Ramayan. Passing through the ASI,<b> the affidavit drafted by Subramaniam reached the Culture Secretary and then Soni. The last two replaced the offending para 20 with their amendments which was sent back to ASI officials. The ASI officials could not have disagreed with their Minister but at the same time, may not have mustered enough courage to assail a document prepared by top legal luminaries.</b> Same may hold true for Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh, who may not have the courage to blame the DMK leaders' influence in the goof-up.
For political gains
In a statement, DMK Minister TR Balu announced his Ministry's intention to go to the Supreme Court to seek clearance for completion of the Sethusamudram Project. <b>The Congress wants to put the issue on hold till the General Election. Like the Left, the DMK is also keen to exploit the situation for their political gain. Some feel that the two are acting in tandem and the DMK might give a jolt to the UPA by withdrawing support to safeguard the interests in TN.</b> Even though DMK needs Congress' support in the Assembly, <b>the latter has chosen not to have a confrontation with DMK</b>. That is why Karunanidhi and Balu are playing their politics without any hindrance.
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DMK forces a bandh?Protesting against their own foot in mouth?
Pioneer, 26 Sept, 2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Nothing fictional about Ramayan
Second opinion: Om Prakash Verma
The Ram Setu debate has become an issue of national importance. Some pieces of evidence as they are mentioned in our scriptures supporting its existence must be recalled along with the history of evolution.
<b>The date of Lord Ram's appearance according to the Matsya Puran is 24th Treta which corresponds to 19.44 million years ago. That falls in the Miocene era during which - as palaeontologists say - a large part of planet Earth was covered with dense forests and populated with human-like apes. India's southern part was close to Africa and cannibals from there are said to have frequently infiltrated through the transit island of Lanka. In order to free the country from such a menace, or so it is believed by some people, Lord Ram organised an army of apes and built Ram Setu.</b>
<b>Ramayan gives a detailed account of the people, places, rivers, continents and oceans of the world during Lord Ram's period. When these descriptions are compared with the geographical map of the Miocene period, they match exactly.</b> The continents of Asia and Europe were in the process of converging during this period and the Ural mountains were undergoing aggradation. The description given in Ramayan indicates towards the partly converged lands of Asia and Europe and the partly raised Ural mountains submerged by the river in between.
Geologists hold that the islands of Great Britain, Java, Sumatra and Borneo also emerged during the same time. <b>After the end of the war, Lord Ram sent some prominent apes, including Bikat, Java, Sumatra and Bali to rule over these islands and to name them after their own (Bhavishya Puran). Evidently, these islands' names bear similarity with Lord Ram's governors and have not changed over the years. The legend of Ramayan is played even today in South-East Asia.</b>
<b>Our scriptures contain valid accounts of Lord Ram's date of birth, expanse of his kingdom, motives behind the construction of Ram Setu / Adam's Bridge, whose remnants are now covered by marine deposits and reefs, and other descriptions that tally with facts and figures produced after scientific examination. Lord Ram became an ideal king and a deity worthy of worship by freeing India from piracy and by making south India habitable.</b>
To expect the fossils of Lord Ram or Christ for evidence to support their existence is unthinkable and irrational.
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I often wondered if anyone had looked at teh descriptions and correlated to current knowledge.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> often wondered if anyone had looked at teh descriptions and correlated to current knowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, Based on Srimad Valamiki Ramayana, I was able to draw Horoscope/B'Day of Lord Rama. Unable to match with year as even now modern software are unable to provide correct information of solar or lunar eclipse 5000 - 7000 years back.
It is on going task, I am creating event, calender, jewelry, costume, flora n fona information
What does the moodan karunanidhi mean by "Valmiki called Rama a drunkard"? Did he? Why?
If not anything else this has finally inspired me to actually start reading Sri Valmiki Ramayana and thinking through just the first 3 verses of Bala Kandam is such a huge liberating thing.
BTW does this also mean Karunanidhi has accepted Rama existed? How else can he be a drunkard?
I think he is confused between Sugriva and Rama.
Which version are you reading? If in English read Kamala Subramaniam's version.
Sethu project: A strategic blunder by Col (retd) Anil Athale
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has a history of committing strategic blunders in last 60 years! The loss of Skardu in 1947, the famous âthrow out the Chineseâ remark by Nehru on 12 September 1962 and disastrous âforward policyâ that led to the 1962 humiliation at the hands of the Chinese or failure to push for severing the land link between Pakistan and China during the 1971 war. The list is long and seemingly unending. It was the hope and expectation of think tanks like Inpad that a formal structure like the NSC (National Security Council) that we lobbied for over 10 years, will cure us of this disease. But the episode of Ram Sethu project that seems to have ignored the military strategic factors puts a question mark on the efficacy of the government apparatus.
<b>The second possibility is that the political leadership overruled the strategic experts and decided to go ahead with its plans! In that case, is it the pressure of Secularist Taliban that forced the government to go ahead with the plan not so for the sake of easing the problems of navigation between Indiaâs East and West coast but with an aim to further consolidate its vote bank? The denial of historicity of Ram seems to show that this is an attempt to woo back the vote bank that seemed to be drifting away due to Indo-US nuclear deal. In the second part we will deal with this deep-seated mindset of Secularist Taliban of India. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The part highlighted is a very distinct possiblity. The claims of Strategic security is pretty shallow given the fact current clowns at center are contemplating donating Siachen to TSP. It's all about vote back and kickbacks on the mega crore project.
Please check this analysis of the trash from Outlook:
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/09/26/sto...uring-rama
I can't believe how useless Hindus have become, even a rag like Outlook is spreading all these lies with impunity.
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Sep 26 2007, 04:06 PM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Sep 26 2007, 04:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think he is confused between Sugriva and Rama.
Which version are you reading? If in English read Kamala Subramaniam's version.
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I'm reading it at http://www.valmikiramayan.net/. Simply googled 'Sri Valmiki Ramayan' and that's what came up first. I kind of resonated to the level of elaboration there but most importantly, even where the English translation seemed labored, the Sanskrit version (rendered in English) is very helpful. By the time I got to the 3rd verse I found I was looking forward to the Sanskrit verse rather than the English elaboration. I don't know about others and hopefully it is not my novice enthusiasm, but pronouncing through the verse is very educational and as soon as you establish the rhythm of the verse in the mind, very enervating (that's the closest word I can think of).
With a little effort the Sanskrit is understandable and even with only the 3 verses, I can tell how the nuances are easy to miss in English (no offense to the translator or the wonderful translation)
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Sep 26 2007, 04:12 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Sep 26 2007, 04:12 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Sethu project: A strategic blunder by Col (retd) Anil Athale
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has a history of committing strategic blunders in last 60 years! T.....
<b>The second possibility.... The denial of historicity of Ram seems to show that this is an attempt to woo back the vote bank that seemed to be drifting away due to Indo-US nuclear deal. In the second part we will deal with this deep-seated mindset of Secularist Taliban of India. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The part highlighted is a very distinct possiblity. The claims of Strategic security is pretty shallow given the fact current clowns at center are contemplating donating Siachen to TSP. It's all about vote back and kickbacks on the mega crore project.
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Several data points lead me to conclude that karunanidhi has played a bigger role than just the recent blashphemy; consider these:
1. a mega project such as this during his reign will ensure continued dole for the kazhagam members
2. even though in his eighties, he will think of this 'revenue stream' in the longer run because in his mind stalin will follow him as CM of TN, to enjoy the fruits
3. Someone can look this up ( I will try to if archives are available online) - karunanidhi said what the ASi affidavit said at least a full 3 weeks before the affidavit was filed - I read it in either dinakaran or dailythanthi or dinamalar the day after he said it (as it was reported). Those are the only 3 Tamizh sources I read. Everybody has known his views, but the words used (between his speech and the ASI report) were similar if not identical; that it is clear to me that it was at least partially drafted by him or someone like him.
This collusion was further confirmed when I later read that the ASI official is a friend of karunanidhi.
4. he may be a moodan but not a muttaal (somebody translate these words for the non-Tamizh speakers here. (I think it's the difference between a bullheaded person and a fool). He would have fully expected outcry from the 'brahmins' but calculated as follows:
a. veeramani (the chief of DK) has scored recently with the atheist crowd through the EVR statue in Srirangam
b. jayalalitha, not too long ago, sort of proved something in the Sankaracharya affair
These two not only emboldened the rascal but also put him in a position where he had to do something to show he was as good a atheist as veeramani is etc.
He forgot 3 things:
i) he hasn't learnt from his in-depth reading of Ramayana about "vinaasa kaale viparida buddhi'
ii) Sri Rama is not merely brahmin's god, not just Tamizh brahmin's god. The reaction he got was from the National Hindu pool. (He has done this mistake of thinking locally and underestimating before - about MGR when he the latter 1st started admk).
iii) The sciences in this case seem to be against cutting through the Setu anyway.
I hope Advani and co are amongst other things working on:
a. demanding any and all surveys done for this project and identifying the gaps
b. trying to acquire the details of communications (ah, the famous cell phones) between karunanidhi and the ASI guy, and perhaps baalu. Even if turns out that the ASI guy simply plagarised karunanidhi's statements from the press, that would be worth airing out
Finally is anyone credible collecting funds etc?
An illuminating parallel drawn between Mareecha's advice to Ravana in the Ramayana, with relevant quotes from the Ramayana, and the advice that the deceased Maran (Karunanidh's nephew) might have given to his uncle Karunananidhi, had he been alive now.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Mareecha's Advice to Karunanidhi</b>
The month of September has been bad for the believers amongst the Tamils. As usual Mr. Karunanidhi started off the season with his usual tirade on Ganesa. He says that Ganesa came to Tamil Nadu from Vatapi. He neither seems to know the history of Tamils nor has any sense of history of the Tamils. The days of yore of Tamils are associated with Sangam period. The grand old lady of Tamil, Avvayyar who wrote the oldest poem on Ganesa viz., Vinayagar Agaval, belonged to this period which precedes the Christian era. Since the attack on the Hindu belief by a rationalist started with the attack on Ganesa the rebuttal also should start with Ganesa.
The next and the most venomous attack was on Rama venerated not just in the North, but all over the landscape of India. Rama is venerated according to scholars even in the Sangam literature Silappathikaram and Manimekalai. It all started with the Central Government committing a blunder in questioning the faith of Indian people on Ram. When the Central Government, without any remorse, beat a grudgy retreat due to public outcry, Mr. Karunanidhi the champion of rationalist or the self-styled champion rationalist, jumped into the fray, bad mouthed, Ram and Rambhakts. He blew hot and cold on Ram. He questioned the existence of Ram. He says Ram is a lie. He apparently contradicted this by saying Ram was an aryan and he was (as a believer I shudder to even repeat) a drunkard.
The silent majority of Tamil Nadu who believe in Ram are keeping quiet like the courtiers of Dhritharashtra when Draupadi was disrobed. The words of Bharathi in Panchali Sabatham are worth recalling to stir them up â'Enna Kodumai ithu' ena Pattai marangal ena ninru pulambinar pattai pulambal pirarku thunayamoâ. Mr. Karunanidhi has thrown a challenge to the believers to have a debate about Ram on the basis of Valmiki Ramayana.
I feel before we have a debate, as a true Rama Devotee, it is incumbent upon me to warn the consequences of fighting Ram that may befall on the opponent. Mr. Karunanidhi will be happy if I quote from Valmiki who is a Scheduled Caste than Kamban who probably belongs to the forward Caste though not a Brahmin. Sargas from 36 to 40 deal with the conversation of Ravana with Mareecha. This is the apt episode to warn Mr. Karunanidhi. Moreover one believes whether Mr. Karunanidhi would have made all these noises if ever Mr. Maran his nephew were alive. One imagines Maran to have made similar advice not just because his name bears close resemblance to Mareechan, as he has been referred by Mr. Karunanidhi himself as his conscience keeper.. In the first Sarga 36 Ravana seeks Maareecha's help to abduct Seetha. He asks Maareecha to assume the shape of a golden-deer and lure Seetha. If Rama and Lakshmana are distracted from the hermitage, Ravana can safely abduct Seetha.
While unfolding this plan Ravana quite unnecessarily not germane to the plan started attacking the personality of Rama much like the current day ruler Mr. Karunanidhi, who instead of advocating the Sethusamudram project started attacking Rama. Rama, according to ravana was, âput to flight by his infuriated father, and who came to Dandaka forest along with his wife, that ignoble Kshatriya is the slaughterer of that demonic army of mine, as his lifespan is diminished. He is out of character, brutal, firestorm, senseless, selfish, one with his senses unconquered and righteousness discarded, and he is an unrighteous soul just delighting in the disservice of all beings.â
We should remind that just because Valmiki is narrating Ramayan the words attributed to Ravana by the narrator could not be taken to be the words of Valmiki. Valmiki continues and gives details of the reaction of Mareecha to this move of Ravana. Mareecha who was hounded by Rama when he was a boy of 12 at Siddhashrama to protect the Yagya of Vishvamitra, on listening the very word âRamaâ, began to tremble, his mouth was completely dried up, and he was fully frightened. Wetting dried up lips with his tongue he became goggle-eyed almost like an about-to-die animal, and he agonisingly looked up at Ravana with winkless eyes. Mareecha at this stage advises ravana with a nice upadesa which till this date is taken as an advice for the society at large.
<i>sulabhaah purusha raajan satatam priyavaadinah
apriyasya ca patyayasya vaktaah srotasca durlabhaah.</i>
"It will always be easy to get people who talk pleasantly, oh, king, but it is impossible to get them who talk judgementally and give suggestions that may be apparently insipid, but that are recuperative, more so, it is impossible to get listeners of such advises.â This particular advice seems to be apt to Mr. Karunanidhi that he should listen even within his camp more to Dr. Ramadoss than to his yes men such as Arcot Mr. Veeraswamy or Dr. Ponmudi. âSo, listen to my words that may now be unsavoury, but will prove beneficial to you in long run, if you can foresee your future properlyâ, is the tone in which Mareecha pleads to Ravana in the same breath as the silent believing majority pleads with Mr. Karunanidhi.
He continues, â Definitely you do not apperceive Rama who is decidedly dynamic and exaltedly adept, for you are impetuous and desultory... Any king of your like who is with a self-will, ill-will, ensorcelled by evil, and malicious in intent, that king alone ruins his own city-state, his own people, even himself, as a matter of actual fact.â Then Mareecha rebuts the wrong epithets against Rama categorically thus: âRama the enhancer of his mother Kausalya's happiness is completely forsaken by his father - no, he is not; there is unseemliness in him - no, not in the least; he is out of character - no; he is selfish - no; he is an ignoble Kshatriya - no, not at all; and he is neither a debased one insofar as the merits of righteousness are concerned, nor he is atrocious towards living beings, for he takes delight in the welfare of all beings. On seeing his father who is a proponent of truth, and whom Kaikeyi has outwitted, that virtue-souled Rama neatly decamped from Ayodhya saying that 'I will prove my father to be a real proponent of truth.' Discarding the kingdom and even royal-comforts Rama entered Dandaka forest only to fulfil the cherish of Kaikeyi, viz., kingdom for her son Bharata, and even that of Dasharatha, viz., to remain loyal to his promise to Kaikeyi. Rama is ruthless - no; an unscholarly one - no; unconquered are his senses â no...â He goes on to say that what you spoke is not the truth. Here the look at the actual sloka and its different wordings by two different schools gives a beautiful insight into the episode. One school gives the following:
<i>Na raamah karkashastaata naavidvannaajitendriyaH
anrutam na srutam caiva naiva tvam vaktumarhasi.</i>
âRama is ruthless - no; an unscholarly one - no; unconquered are his senses â no. It does not behove of you to talk untruth and that which is unheard ofâ. There is another version of the Sloka which uses âdusrutam â instead of ânasrutam". This seems to be more apt. Here Mareecha is quoted as saying that what you speak is untruth or wrongly indoctrinated. The wrong indoctrination is there for all of us to see from the days of âKeemayanamâ and âAriya Mayaiâ.
Then comes the greatest praise of Rama ever heard. It is pertinent here to note this greatest praise of Rama comes from a demon who was hounded by Rama and the subsequent events would vouch the fact that Mareecha had no axe to grind to praise Rama, which would corroborate the truth in the acclaim for Rama .
<i>Raamo vigrahavaan darmah sadhuh satyaparaakramah
raaja sarvasya lokasya devaanaamiva vaasavah.</i>
âRamaâ Mareecha says, âis the embodiment of righteousness, he is an equable person with truthfulness as his valour, and as with Indra to all gods he is the king of entire world.â âRama's principles alone make him victorious, as he does not deviate from the path of righteousness. And by not deviating from the path of righteousness, he is truly valorous and the question of his defeat does not arise, because he will abide by his conscience.â Mark these words. These are the very characters that become the ideal of every Indian and this has sunk into our consciousness whether we believe in the Rama in human form or in a Mythical form. This nation (even when there were no State to govern the nation) has never ever tried to be a cause of disturbance of world peace. Take the case of Bangladesh War. India overran the Pakisthani Army and rightfully proclaimed victory. But the Indians did not occupy the country for a day more than the declaration of independence. This is unheard of in world history. The international law recognises the presence of occupying forces as recently as in Iraq war. We did not do it. It was not Mahatma Gandhi who was in the throne at that time. It was the sterner Gandhi viz., Indira Gandhi at that time. But this is how a nation steeped with the consciousness of Rama would behave. If Rama is taken away from our hearts and soul India would also create its own Iraqs and Vietnams disturbing world peace. So for the sake of peace please do not take away Ram from our heart and soul.
Mareecha continues with his advices, "If you cherish to take pleasure for a long time in your life, in your comforts and also thus in your kingdom, which kingdom is highly impossible to achieve, do not do anything unpleasant to Rama.â
"Such as you are, you should firstly deliberate with all of your ministers that have a righteous bearing, duly keeping your brother Vibheeshana at the helm of affairs, and then you take a decision on your own considering rights and wrongs of the case, and bearing in mind about your own strengths and weakness, and even on making sure of Raghava's capability in its reality, and then it will be apt of you to take up befitting action that will be conducive to your interests.â Alas not only Mr. Karunanidhi has lost Mr. Maran, he has lost the venerable Palanivelrajan for him to give proper advice.
"Oh, king of nightwalkers Ravana, I for myself deem that your confrontation with Rama, the prince of Kosala, in a war is improper, and a better, befitting, and a reasonable one is this advise of mine, to which you may listen further.â
Mareecha has some words for the believers who are maintaining an eerie silence "Even if with uncommitted sins, the sinless will get ruined owing to their interdependence with other sinners, like the fish in a lake with snakes. Bedaubed with divine sandal-paste, beautified with divine ornaments are the limbs of the demons now, perchance you will be seeing them trampled out on ground for the blunder of yours.â
Maareecha further advises Ravana to avoid confrontation with Rama for it would be ruinous to the entire demonic race. Narrating his experiences with Rama during Viswamitra's Yagna and at another time in Dandaka, he says, âI am indeed descrying Rama at this tree and at that tree, dressed in jute-cloths and black deerskin, and handling his bow like the Terminator handling a tether. Given to fright I even visualise thousands Rama-s, and whole this forest is reflecting to me as one entity of Rama. Even at a place void of people I am envisaging Rama alone, and oh, king of demons, even if he enters my dream, in fact, I am jolting up and swooning. Oh, Ravana, appalled of Rama the names starting with the alphabet 'ra' like ratna-s, ratha-s, viz., gemstones, chariots are appalling to me, including your name, that starts with a 'ra.'
âIf I hear the first letter 'ra' of any given name, I am scared at the ensuing second syllable presuming it to be 'ma' and if that second syllable of that word I am going to hear happens to be other than 'ma' then my fear ceases.I am well-acquainted with his efficacy, and a war with him will be an unfair thing for you, for that Raghu's descendant can in fact kill either Emperor Bali or Namuchi, the demon. Definitely Rama is the one with exceptional resplendence, exemplary courage and extraordinary power, and for sure, he becomes an eradicator of the world of demons.â
On further goading by Ravana Maareecha dissuades Ravana again and speaks thus: âOh, night-walker, by which evildoer this thought, which is self-ruinous to you, along with your progeny, kingdom and ministers put together, is taught to you? "Who is that reprobate unhappy with such a happy one like you, and oh, king, by whom this door of demise is ingeniously shown to you?"It is very clear, oh, night-walker, that your rivals with skimpy might are aspiring that you should be completely ruined coming into conflict with more mighty Rama. He who wishes you to get ruined by your undertaking a self-made destruction is a scoundrel with a pernicious intent, as such, by whom you are counselled to do this? Your ministers are not curbing you anywise when you scramble on a high road to self-ruination, hence they are indeed to be sentenced to death, but they are not being executed for their dereliction.â Ministers who goad the King on the path of ruination is an expression very much applicable to the present dispensation which has goaded Mr. Karunanidhi to make blasphemous statement about Ram. âVeracious ministers have to restrain a self-willed king when he relies on a wrong-route, isn't it. But you are unrestrained by your ministers though you are self-willed and though you are taking a wrong-route,âsays Mareecha.
Now getting into probity and behaviour of Kings and Ministers Mareecha says:"Oh, best conqueror Ravana, probity, prosperity and pleasures, and even the popularity of the ministers, oh, night-walker, are achieved at the beneficence of their master. Contrariwise, oh, Ravana, all that beneficence of the king to ministers becomes futile when the king behaves perversely, and even the others, namely the subjects of kingdom, will derive distress by the negative virtue of their master. The king alone is the root cause for probity and prosperity, isn't it. Therefore, oh, best prosperous one, in all situations the kings are to be safeguarded from the ill effects of influences. It is impossible to govern kingdom, oh, demon, the night-walker, for a king with acridity, with hostility, or with immorality. The ministers with drastic notions will indeed fall apart together with their king, like a chariot that gets ramshackled together with it charioteer on a rough road, though it is hieing with galloping horses but badly controlled by that slothful charioteer. In the world many saintly beings that are high-minded and pursuers of ethicality are completely ruined together with their kinsmen owing to the misdeeds of others.â How prophetic this words would turn out if amends are not made even at this late stage. âOh, Ravana, the subjects do not flourish while a lord with contrariety and coerciveness safeguards them, just like goats guarded by a fox.â How nicely this expression sums up the current situation! Mareecha reiterates the catastrophe that is to befall on the demons thus: âAll those demons will definitely ruin, oh, Ravana, to whom you are the acrimonious and malicious king with unconquered senses, though you have conquered the heaven.â
"As a desirer of your welfare I am dissuading you, oh, night-walker, but you may feel that this word of mine is unpleasant to you. People on diminishing lifetime will be similar to corpses and a corpse cannot take in the expedient spoken by considerate confidants, isn't so.â With these words Mareecha ends his advice to Ravana. Let us also warn those who have taken up cudgels against Ram that he is a warrior par excellance and he resides in the heart of this nation from time immemorial and anybody who attacks him attacks the nation's soul.
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09-28-2007, 12:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2007, 12:38 AM by ramana.)
Pioneer, 27 Sept., 2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ASG owns up affidavit fiasco
Nidhi Sharma | New DelhiÂ
Too late, as two ASI officials are already suspended
<b>In a confidential report submitted to Law Minister HR Bhardwaj, Additional Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam has owned responsibility for Archaeological Survey of India's affidavit in Sethusamudram Canal Project </b>that said there is no historical or scientific evidence to establish the existence of Lord Ram.
This has added another twist to the controversy because the Government has already suspended two ASI officials for their role in filing the controversial affidavit. <b>In a related development, Culture Minister Ambika Soni on Wednesday publicly lauded the officials of the Culture Ministry, specifically ASI Director-General Anshu Vaish, who had been in the eye of a storm for her role in the filing of the affidavit.</b>
Addressing a gathering at the inauguration of Nizam's jewels exhibition at National Museum, Soni said: "You (Anshu Vaish) have come and joined on very good recommendations. I know you have a good background in archaeology."
Vaish has been asked to conduct an inquiry into the entire affidavit and how objectionable paragraphs made their way into the final draft. The Director-General has also been asked to explain her personal role in the filing of the affidavit and how the said paragraphs escaped her attention. She has asked for some more time to file her report.
According to highly placed sources, Subramaniam has submitted a confidential report to the Law Minister in which he has owned responsibility for the controversial paragraphs included in the affidavit. <b>Subramaniam has reportedly said in the report that his team had drafted the affidavit and that is why it is their mistake.</b>
This, however, leaves several questions unanswered. The biggest one remains - was the proper procedure for filing affidavits in Supreme Court followed? According to sources, Subramaniam's report says that there was a deviation from the normal procedure.
The Culture Ministry had found two scapegoats - director (administration) Chandrashekhar and assistant director (monuments) V Bakshi - and suspended them. <b>Why were these officials suspended when the fault really lay in the language of the affidavit, which was framed by the team of lawyers. </b>
Left red-faced by the controversial affidavit, which has been withdrawn now, the Government is desperately trying to tide over the crisis. The Law Ministry had promised a "mechanism" to solve the differences between various parties.
According to reliable UPA sources, a panel of about 10 experts would be announced within one week to look into the Ram Setu controversy. It would comprise archaeologists, geologists and other experts who would address the objections of the petitioners. A senior official said: "The terms of reference of the committee would be the same as directed by the Supreme Court."
The Law Minister has been roped in to coordinate between Culture and Shipping Ministries. What has made the task even trickier for the UPA Government is that while Ambika Soni is a Congress Minister, the Shipping portfolio is with DMK's TR Baalu.
Bhardwaj met Baalu to deliberate on the issue on Wednesday evening. The Government has sought three months' time to address the controversial project issue. The next hearing is likely to be slated for January 2008. Till then, the Shipping Ministry can continue dredging but cannot inch ahead on the canal project.
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Shoudlnt the ASG be fired or reprimanded? And why doesn't he resign for causing so much misery and agony? I get it he is a Teflon coated Well-Off Modern Indian. So he doesnt have to take responsibility.
And why the confidential report to the Minister. He has commited a public offence why the private apology? and he was silent when the two ASI officials were supended. Let me quote an English poet to this WMI dork.
"They also are guilty who are silent in a moral crisis" Dante in Paradise Lost.
And
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Cowardly deed
The Pioneer Edit Desk
Officials punished for ASG's error
The unsavoury saga of the UPA Government first denying the existence of Lord Ram through an affidavit in the Supreme Court, thus unleashing outrage across the nation, and then hastening to deny its earlier denial through a fresh affidavit, has taken a new twist. <b>It now transpires that the perverse affidavit was drafted by Additional Solicitor-General Gopal Subramaniam and his team of lawyers; that officials of the Archaeological Survey of India did not have a role in preparing the final document; and, that the laid down procedure for preparing responses to court notices was possibly short-circuited. According to news reports, Mr Subramaniam is believed to have admitted as much in a confidential note to Union Law Minister HR Bhardwaj;</b> given the popular disquiet generated by the uncalled for affidavit, it would be in order for the Government to place the contents of the note in the public domain, if only to be seen as fixing responsibility for a gross error of judgement which could have far-reaching consequences. More important, by coming clean on this issue, <b>the Government would spare officials in the Archaeological Survey of India the burden of carrying the cross for somebody else who is higher up in the pecking order of the bureaucracy and enjoys political patronage, namely Mr Subramaniam.</b> It will be recalled that within hours of the ill-advised affidavit provoking a backlash, the Government had suspended two officials of the Archaeological Survey of India, blaming them for the mess - <b>Mr Subramaniam's admission shows the officials were made into scapegoats by a cynical regime.</b> Such cynicism does little to enhance the executive's authority and prestige; on the contrary, it makes the permanent bureaucracy scornful of the political leadership.
In this particular instance, the two suspended officials should immediately be reinstated and their service record expunged of any adverse comments that may have been entered. Not to do so would be a travesty of justice and only prove that the Government has more to hide than is known. <b>Meanwhile, the Union Government and the State Governments should seriously consider reframing rules that allow summary action against officials by politicians and their appointees too cowardly to own up their own mistakes</b>. Unless based on fairplay, punishment can have a negative impact. Witness the manner in which a Delhi school teacher was sacked from her job after a television channel broadcast a spurious story about her. Ironically, even though the channel has been held guilty of peddling untruth and the people involved have been arrested, the injustice done to the victim remains to be corrected. It is only a callous authority that is unmindful of the honour of individuals; such authority does not command respect.
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