11-22-2005, 09:37 PM
Gaurang Bhatt is still in a confusd state of mind as he would classify most of us as bigots and Hindu fanatics. see his comments to my SSS article.
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Demographic Politics And Population Growth - 2
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11-23-2005, 12:00 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Gaurang Bhatt is still in a confusd state of mind as he would classify most of us as bigots and Hindu fanatics. see his comments to my SSS article.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is Gurang bhatt comments -at the bottom - link
11-23-2005, 02:19 AM
I think the bile oozing out of these articles is telling..
http://www.saag.org/BB/view.asp?msgID=24070 <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Hindu Nov 19, 2005 AIDWA HITS OUT AT RSS CALL TO PRODUCE MORE CHILDREN Special Correspondent Women cannot be seen as reproductive machines serving Hindu nationalist agenda # Reproductive choice is a matter of right # Mischievous propaganda will fan hatred # Size of family is not determined by community NEW DELHI: The All-India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA) on Friday criticised Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh chief K.S. Sudarshan's call to Hindus to produce more children and reject the two-child norm. Referring to Mr. Sudarshan's statement that the 2001 census data showed a decline in Hindu population in certain States including in the northeast and his call to "perform the sacred duty of contributing to the cause of maintaining a Hindu majority in the country", the AIDWA said he was totally regardless of the fact that reproductive choice had to do with a woman's right over her body, well-being and health and economic capacity to provide for her children. "She cannot be seen as a reproductive machine serving the Hindu nationalist agenda. At the same time, Mr. Sudarshan has deliberately confused the rate of population growth with population strength to promote communal paranoia in the psyche of the Hindu majority fanning the fear of being swamped by religious minorities in the coming years," AIDWA president Subhashini Ali said in a statement here. "False arithmetic" For quite some time now the false arithmetic about Muslims producing more children because they had the legal sanction to marry more than once was flaunted by the likes of Mr. Sudarshan, in spite of the statistically established fact that the percentage of polygamous Hindus was slightly higher than the percentage of polygamous Muslims. "This mischievous propaganda will not only help to fan communal hatred but [also] Hindu women not able to produce the desired number of children will be seen as not having fulfilled her duty towards her community." Further, which Hindus was Mr. Sudarshan talking about? Was it about urban affluent Hindus who accepted the small family norm? Did he not know that the size of the family was determined by comparative affluence, access to education and other basic civil rights and not by the community one belonged to? "If he was at all talking about the millions of economically deprived, caste-oppressed, hunger-ridden 'Hindus' who have no access to the basic necessities of life and are no different from the poor of other communities in that respect, he would not be raising the slogan of bigger families but [be] talking about the need to provide them with the basic necessities of life." o o o PRESS STATEMENT November 19, 2005 RSS CHIEF SUDERSHAN'S CALL FOR A DOZEN SONS PER HINDU FAMILY IRRATIONAL; INSULT TO INDIAN WOMEN, MINORITIES [The Following is the Text of the Press Statement by National Integration Council Member Dr. John Dayal, President, AICU and Secretary general, All India Christian Council.] Over the years, the nation has come to expect the most bizarre and dangerous statements from the hyper-nationalist Rashtriya Swayam Sewak Sangh and its leadership - ranging from demands for eradicating neighboring countries to a sustained diatribe against Muslim and Christian religious minorities who are citizens of India. RSS views on the status of women, their contempt for the Constitution of India and their infinite capacity to attempt to overwhelm Indian plurality and the identity of Tribals, ethnic and linguistic minorities have alarmed Civil society for undermining the democratic norms that sustain the unity and integrity of India. But the septuagenarian and bachelor RSS chief Kupahalli Sudershan's call that Hindu couples produce more than three children - indeed advocating 11 or a dozen sons per family - to sustain their religious majority in India goes beyond the bizarre and the irrational. It is a racist statement soiled by foul religious bigotry and harks back to an era of eugenics and population manipulations that died out with the end of Hitler's "pure race" concepts. Similar ethnic logic in certain pockets in Europe and Africa led to genocidal cleansing within living memory. As callous and terrible is the implied super-patriarchal attitude Mr. Sudershan and the RSS have of the Indian woman - victim of child rape in the guise of traditional marriage, and now presented as a political womb at the service of a maniacal ideology and its demonic hatred towards other communities. The Indian woman is now being asked to produce enough children to correct fancied and imagined imbalances in the population of one religion. The poor woman would be dead long before she achieves the target set for her by Mr. Sudershan. The RSS demographic thesis has been given the veneer of academic exactitude by the highly suspect work of another frontal organization, the Chennai based Centre for Policy Studies. This work was brought out soon after the 2001 Census with a foreword by the then Deputy Prime minister Lal Krishan Advani. The entire purpose of the voluminous tome, bought by many government departments at the then BJP-led government's insistence, was to raise a bogey of a Muslim population explosion, and fears of terrorism in a so called Christian-majority North east. The statistical data presented was even then exposed to be false extrapolation. The arguments were against the scientific and official data produced by the People of India Project of the Government under the directorship of the redoubtable scholar Dr K S Singh. That series had in fact even established that polygamy is more common in several non-Muslim groups than in Muslim groups, which is the standard falsehood and pet RSS grouse. On Christians, the 2001 census once again established that the percentage of the Christian population in India is steadily going down because of the norm of one or two children per family, even among the poor and in rural areas. The myth of a Christian conspiracy in the northeast based on population and conversion was also conclusively exposed to be false, highly motivated and mischievous and meant entirely to defame an entire community. It is for senior BJP leaders such as Mr. LK Advani, former Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee and the women leaders of the group to answer Mr. Sudershan. 3. MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF MUSLIM INDIANS PRESS STATEMENT Navaid Hamid, Member National Integration Council & General Secretary MOEMIN condemns Sudershan�s remarks on Population New Delhi 20ovember 2005: Mr. Navaid Hamid, Member National Integration Council & General Secretary Movement for Empowerment of Muslim Indians has strongly condemned the RSS chief statement on Population. The Sudershan�s misguiding, irrational and dangerous mantra to fellow countrymen to have as many children as they can is aimed to terrorize the Hindu brethrens and spread the venom of hatred and fear amongst the citizens against the religious minorities in the country. The statement once again shows the true face of the RSS mindset and is an insult to the women of the country and is indeed the continuation of his diatribe against the religious minorities. The civil society of the country has taken serious note of his diatribe and is united to fight his mindset to undermine the plural character of the State. The civil society is fully aware about Sundarshan�s and his fellow Sanghi�s game plan to create confusion, hatred and ground for ethnic cleansing of the religious minorities & tribal�s. The data presented by him and RSS frontal institute in the book on the religious demography is not only totally irrational but also against the scientific and official statistics available in the country and the exercise is to raise a false bogey of Muslim population explosion in the country and that of the Christians in north east. We earnestly request the Government to immediately contradict and condemn the RSS exercise to put the rat in mousetrap. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
11-23-2005, 03:36 AM
http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=39524
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muslim Population Growth Rate in India by:  Jai Dharma on Nov 22 2005 5:12PM in Business I recently came across a small booklet written in Marathi by Dr Shrirang Godbole titled, âAhindu Loksankhyecha Visfotâ (published Oct â04 by âBharatiya Vichar Sadhanaâ in Pune. The book dealt with the explosive growth in non-Hindu populations in India. Below are some of the more startling statistics included in the book. I am not sure if a translation is available, nevertheless these facts will give you a flavour of the contents. The book starts by noting that the boycott by Hindus of the census in 1921, 1931 and 1941 (Iâm not clear about the exact reasons) and the resultant misrepresentation (under-representation?) in population statistics may have led to Hindus loosing out on several important decisions related to opportunities in government and administration, political reforms and constitutional matters at the time of Partition. But coming back to the real point, here are some highlights: ·     Of the 543 Lok Sabha constituencies, Muslims are in a majority in 12. Of these, 4 are in J & K, one in Lakshdweep and the rest are in Kishanganj (Bihar, 66%), Ponani (Kerala, 66%), Jangipur (W Bengal, 59%), Murshidabad (W Bengal, 58%), Manjeri (Kerala, 56%), Dhubri (Assam, 55%) , Raiganj (W Bengal, 55%). However, Muslims hold a decisive vote in anywhere between 90-100 constituencies in the country. In Uttar Pradesh, politically one of the most important states, Muslims constitute more than 20% of the voting population in more than 34 Lok Sabha constituencies (of a total of 543). (Pg 18) ·     There is no demonstrable link between illiteracy (or under-development) and Muslim population as many commentators would lead us to believe. In Maharashtra, although Hindus have a lower rate of literacy (both in terms of males and females), Muslims have a higher birth rate than Hindus in every single district (Pg 22) ·     Amongst all the states in India, Assam has seen the maximum decline in Hindu population. In the 4 districts bordering Bangladesh (Dhubri, Golpara, Hailakandi and Karimganj), Muslims constitute between 52% ~ 75% of the population. Between 1991 and 2001, Muslim growth rate in Assam in was 29.3% compared to 14.8% for non-Muslims. Today, 10 out of 23 districts in Assam are Muslim majority ·     Of the 9 boundary districts in W Bengal, all except 3 have Muslim majority ·     In Nagaland and Arunachal Pradesh, Muslim population grew by 150% and 180% respectively. Nagaland has 16 major tribes but there has been a ânewâ addition in the last 10 years â âSemiyanâ (persons descended from Bangaldeshi men - âMianâ and Naga women) which is a designated Muslim tribe ·     In R K Ohriâs book (âLong March of Islam â The Future Imperfectâ, Manas Publications, N Delhi, pp 235, 238), Sarifa Begum has estimated that between 1981 and 1991, 14 ~ 15 million Bangladeshis illegally entered (and consequently disappeared) in India. As conclusive evidence, the population growth in boundary districts on the Indian side has consistently outpaced the growth in boundary districts on the Bangladeshi side (see table below) Bangladeshi boundary region/Population Growth Rate : Adjoining Indian region/Population Growth Rate Greater Jessore and Greater Khulna/1.97% and 1.58% : North 24 Parganas, W Bengal/3.16% Greater Maimensingh/1.82% : Garo Hills, Meghalaya/3.84% Greater Commila/1.89% : Tripura/3.36% ·     In 2003, George Fernandes has gone on record saying that illegal infiltration from Bangladesh into India has consistently been running at a rate of more than 1 lakh persons per year (p 235 of Sh Ohriâs book)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
11-24-2005, 10:21 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Dr Swamy gives Brinda Karat a lesson on economics</b>
11/24/2005 12:44:28 AM HK - New Delhi NEW DELHI: Janata Party President Dr Subramanian Swamy has blasted the CPM Politburo member Brinda Karat for her reported criticism of RSS Sarsanghachalak K S Sudarshanâs remarks that the Hindus in the country should have larger families to maintain the religious population ratios in India. In a hardhitting statement issued on Wednesday evening, Dr Swamy pointed out the hollowness and foolishness of Ms. Karatâs claim that the differential population growth rate and fertility had nothing to with religion but was determined by the economic development levels of the various religious groups. âResearch in economics of population reveals by a sophisticated statistical regression analysis that even after eliminating the differences in per capita incomes of religious communities, fertility differences remain and have to be ascribed to religion. <b>That is why despite rising per capita incomes of Christian and Muslim communities in India since 1951, their population growth has accelerated since 1981 while Hindu rate has declined,â said Dr Swami, an economist of international repute</b>. <b>Dr Swamy also said in the statement that the RSS chiefâs suggestion was only with the good intention of safeguarding the Hindu character and foundation of India.</b> âIt was not a fatwa for Ms. Karat to implement that she should be so agitated about. It was instead to initiate a debate which the RSS chief has done. <b>What Ms. Karat should make clear is whether she has any other solution for maintaining the religious composition of India in light of Islamic and Evangelical preaching to increase their population,â</b> Dr swami, a former Union Minister of Law and Company Affairs said in the statement. Dr Swamy also pointed out that the reported statement of Ms Brinda Karat was yet another proof of the bankruptcy of the CPM. He congratulated Mr Sudarshan for alerting the country to a future danger. It may be noted that this is the second time Ms Brinda Karat is coming out in the open against suggestions put forward by the RSS Sarsanghachalak. Mr Sudarshan had asked the financially strong Hindu women to devote more time to their children and families than selecting a career, the CPMâs middle-aged glamour women attacked the former for âmale chauvinismâ. But she goes on telling one and all that she and her husband Prakash Karat decided not to have children because it may not be possible for them to look after the kids in view of their busy engagements which extend all over the world. Another Politburo member of the party S Ramachandran Pillai too had charged the RSS leader for his remarks. <b>But Mr Pillai was totally silent when the Imam of New Delhi and the Catholic Bishops Conference of India came out openly against the two-child norms and birth control regulations</b>. www.haindavakeralam.org/P...234&SKIN=B <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
12-17-2005, 01:26 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Dec 16 2005, 12:28 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Dec 16 2005, 12:28 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Y I Patel posted this fantastic article on BR. He said..
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In all my years of reading about J&K (and believe me, they are many) this is the best article I have ever come across on the subject. I am deeply saddened that the author is not an Indian. Read, and like me, learn a lot of new things on a subject you thought you were familiar with! <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/sea...arksArticle.pdf [right][snapback]43302[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
12-18-2005, 02:42 AM
From above article..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Demographic and Physical Realities Jihadis do appear now to be the driving force behind the movement in all of J&K. They survive due to their use of terror and ability to maintain a support base. That there was invariably a supply of internal recruits stems from the geography and demographics of J&K. Though official, popular, and academic treatments of the conflict speak of Jammu & Kashmir State as a whole â with statistics pertaining to the insurgency taken from the entire area â the situation on the ground requires clarification. A majority (69%) of the J&K state land mass is âLadakhâ (i.e. Leh and Kargil Districts), but this area has but 2.3% of the 2001 census population of 10,069,917.31 Little if anything pertaining to the insurgency goes on there, and it may be safely discarded in this treatment. Insurgent activity, as indicated above, takes place in the divisions of Jammu & Kashmir, linked in an historic unity but in reality separated by a variety of factors â not least the Pir Panjil Range which runs between them â that dictate even the rainy seasons occur at different months (for Jammu, peak rainfall is in July and August; for Kashmir, FebruaryâApril). Jammu is larger physically than Kashmir (26,293 km2 versus 15,948 km2) but slightly behind in population (4,395,712 versus 5,441,341, or 44.7 per cent versus 55.3 per cent). Jammu (26,293 km2) is slightly larger than either Vermont (23,958 km2) or New Hampshire (23,227 km2), with Kashmir (15,948 km2) being smaller than either but slightly larger than Massachusetts (12,549 km2). This comparison is important, because it means the entire conflict essentially goes on in an area (42,241 km2) just larger than the US tri-state block comprised of MassachusettsâConnecticutâRhode Island (38,151 km2) but just smaller than the two-state block of Vermont and New Hampshire (47,185 km2). <b>In reality, the conflict, in terms of population, takes place in even more constricted space, with Kashmirâs population concentrated in the Vale of Kashmir (i.e.Kashmir Valley), Jammuâs in the valley of that same name. Census data by decade reveals explosive population growth since independence, with the population essentially increasing by a third in each of the last two census decades (i.e. 1981â1991 and 1991â2001). Indeed, given the 1951 census figure of 3.25 million, the present count of 10,069,917 makes for a 310 per cent increase in 50 years â with the greatest growth in the Kashmir Valley.32</b> Jammu is dominated by Hindus (62 per cent), but three of its six districts have Muslim majorities (Poonch, Rajauri and Doda; the other three districts, which have very large Hindu majorities, are Jammu, Kathua and Udhampur). Kashmirâs six districts (Kupwara, Baramula, Srinagar, Badgam, Pulwama and Anantanag) all have Muslim majorities in excess of 90 per cent. Hindus, in fact, are reported to be less than 2 per cent in all districts of the division except Srinagar, where their numbers have been placed at 6â8 per cent. Since the state as a whole (certainly Kashmir Division) remains tied to the employment patterns generated by agriculture, all sources have noted postindependence employment problems, especially the high dependency ratio (i.e. the number of persons supported by the working population). In 1981, less than a third of the state population (30.4 per cent) was classified in the census as âmain workersâ (i.e. those working more than six months, 183 days), with nother 13.9 per cent classified as âmarginal workersâ (finding less than six months employment), and fully 55.7 per cent as non-workers. As might be expected, those aged 15â39 dominated the labor force, and nearly three-quarters (72.0 per cent) of those working were in occupations tied directly to primary activities, to the land (e.g. cultivators, agricultural laborers, livestock workers). <b>At least two decades ago, then, issues of livelihood for the young had been identified as a looming state problem, with all factors exacerbated in Kashmir by Islamic cultural traits (such as discrimination against women and preference for male offspring).</b> :unsure Already, in 1981, more than half the state population was less than 19 years of age, with a literacy rate well below the national norm (and even lower among Muslims and especially Muslim women). Significantly, the lowest level of agricultural employment in the state was in Srinagar District (16.7 per cent), which was tied to small shop-keeping and thus dependent upon external forces for generation of employment capacity. RESPONSE TO INSURGENCY IN JAMMU & KASHMIR 127 <b>As this heavily Muslim district was also an area of explosive growth, the ability of the economy to absorb youth steadily declined â even as the cultural bias noted above produced a pronounced imbalance in the sex ratio (for Kashmir the F:M ratio in 1981 was 878:1,000 versus Jammuâs 925:1,000).</b> Population density was considerably higher in Kashmir than elsewhere in the state, 251/km2 as early as 1991 versus 135/km2 in Jammu (and but 2/km2 in Ladakh). The upshot is a statistical case can be made that there was a demographic tidal wave of unabsorbed youthful males appearing in the late 1980s, especially in Kashmir, just as political issues discussed above called into question the legitimacy of the existing order. Yet the resulting insurgency, despite its widespread violence in both Jammu and Kashmir, is in its origins and driving force more a Kashmir than a Jammu problem. Indeed, the increasingly Islamic nature of the insurgents and their support from Pakistan has served to enflame latent separatist sentiment upon the part of Jammu. One now sees strong forces demanding independent consideration of Jammu in factors ranging from the political to the linguistic, and local defense forces (to be considered below), in Jammu at least, are dominated by Hindus.33 Be all this as it may, a point must be made as concerns the earlier discussion of the need to examine the insurgency in its parts: it is not the human cost alone that makes for the notoriety of the conflict. Indeed, the internal war in J&K, when scaled, does not begin to approach the levels of criminal violence present in those US metropolitan areas best known for their murder rates. The âdeath countâ in Jammu & Kashmir for 2003 stood at 836 civilians, 1,447 militants, and 380 security personnel.34 If this violence is aggregated (2,663), which is unorthodox but certainly presents the worst possible statistical picture, it scales out at 24.5:100,000 population.35 This would place Jammu & Kashmir between Memphis (24.7:100,000) and Chicago (22.2:100,000), in the 2002 murder rankings when examining American cities with populations greater than 500,000, well off the pace established by the likes of Washington, DC 45.8:100,000) or Detroit (42.0:100,000).36 Thus the issue, as concerns Indians, is not âbody countâ alone but the totality of the dislocation. The perversion of daily life caused by the insurgency and the governmentâs response; the deployment to the state of substantial numbers of security forces; the inability of economic activity to respond to demographic shifts due to the all-encompassing and pervasive effect of the conflict; the looming danger of escalation to inter-state war, with the possibility that nuclear weapons will be used; these and other facets are what make the âKashmir conflictâ so ominous for the population.37<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
12-18-2005, 03:25 AM
Folks
Is it ok if i move this thread to strategic security thread ?
12-18-2005, 04:35 AM
I have no problem with this. I am assuming we have an effective retrieval search engine
01-12-2006, 11:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>In authentic study on demographic invasion</b>
www.christianaggression.o...e=articles By Ashok Kumar Organiser January 15, 2006 A.P. Joshi, M.D. Srinivas and J.K. Bajaj of the Centre for Policy Studies are among the few who have dared to study Indiaâs changing religious profile. Their book Religious Demography of India covers data from Census 2001, the findings of which were released in September 2004. The data revealed alarmingly a sharp rise in population of Muslims and Christians. The book is an exhaustive compilation of the religious demographic data of the last one hundred years for different regions of the Indian subcontinent and almost all districts of Indian Union. The data of 2001, in many respects, simply carries forward the trends of religious demographic change observed up to 1991, but there is also a clear intensification of these trends in certain aspects. When one looks at the data for the whole of India, including Indian Union, Pakistan and Bangladesh, the new data only reconfirms the distinct possibility that Muslims and Christians together shall become the majority in the Indian region early in the second half of the twenty-first century. In this regard, the book mentions: âWithin Indian Union, the quantum of decline in the proportion of Indian religionists-and the corresponding increase in that of Muslims and Christians-observed during 1991-2001 is the largest since Independence and Partition; it seems that the rate of change has become definitely quicker since 1981. The difference between the decadal growth of Indian religionists and Muslims has widened from about 10 per cent in the earlier decades following Independence to! about 45 per cent during the last two decades. And Christians whose decadal growth in the Indian Union as a whole had declined to about 17 per cent during the previous two decades, from the very high level of around 33 per cent in 1961-1971, have registered a sudden spurt in their growth to 23 per cent during the last decade of 1991-2001.â The changing religious profile of Indian population has had a strong impact on the recent history of India and it continues to be amongst the major determinants of strife on the Indian subcontinent. For more than a millennium now, India has been host to some of the greatest, most vigorous and expansive religions of the world. This circumstance has endowed India with a rich diversity, but it has also given rise to some of the most acute strategic, political and administrative problems that the Indian nation has had to face in the past and continues to face till today. Mentioning about religious composition of India in 1881, the book says: âAt the time of the first synchronous and detailed census in 1881, the adherents of religions of native Indian origin constituted about 79 per cent of the population, of which 95 per cent were Hindus. Of the remaining about 21 per cent of the population, that followed religions that have originated outside India, as many as 96 per cent were Muslims. This religious heterogeneity of the Indian population and its division into mainly the Hindus and Muslims was a demographic reflection of relatively recent events in Indian history.â But in the period following 1881, rise in the proportion of Muslims and Christians becomes a continuous phenomenon, which the book explores in some detail. The book brings out that the part of India that came to form Indian Union after Partition has a substantial majority of Indian religionists, but their proportions has been declining throughout the twentieth century, except for the rise associated with the abnormal and traumatic event of Partition. âIn the pre-Partition period, the proportion of Indian religionists in this part of India declined from 86.6 per cent in 1901 to 84.4 per cent in 1941. Between 1941 and 1951, their proportion rose by about 2.8 percentage points as a result of the forced and violent transfer of populations that occurred at the time of Partition and, in the following five decades, the proportion of Indian religionists in Indian Union has declined by more than 3 percentage points to 84.2 per cent,â says the book. As to the religious composition of Pakistan, the book has used the latest estimates of the United Nations for the total population of Pakistan during the post-Partition period of 1951-2001 because the total population figures provided by the Census of Pakistan are generally considered to be inaccurate. Probably the most significant aspect of the data on the religious composition of Pakistan is the fact that the proportion of Indian religionists in the population there was rising considerably during the pre-Partition period-their share went from 15.9 per cent in 1901 to 19.7 per cent in 1941. Correspondingly, the proportion of Muslims declined from 83.9 per cent to 78.8 per cent during the same period. But at Partition, the region was purged almost clean of Indian religionists. Their number came down from 5.57 million in 1941 to 0.60 million in 1951. It has remained around that figure since then. Number of Indian religionists in Pakistan in 1981 was about half of their number! in 1901. No census was conducted for 1991. Numbers in the book are estimates based on the estimate of total population and relative proportions of different religious groups as enumerated in the previous census. Number of Indian religionists in 2001 at around 1.84 per cent of the total population are somewhat higher than expected on the basis of past trends. But these are small numbers and the changes are perhaps not statistically significant. The 224-page book attempts to comprehend and analyse the data on religion based on Census 2000. The three writers have looked at the whole time-series data including the data for 2001 for each state and union territory afresh. The book is based on rigorous, objective and painstaking compilation and analysis of enormous amount of data and information. It is likely to prove invaluable handbook for political leaders, statesman, administrators and social scientists of India. (Centre for Policy Studies, 27, Rajsekharan Street, Chennai-600 004.) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> 
01-28-2006, 08:33 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->well you can stop being sadistic about the plight of the hindus (at least on this forum!!) who have been unfortunate enough to have been economically raved by 200 years of colonialism and then have been cut off from their brethern. you never had to go through a cent of that - you wont be able to empathise. its easy to sit in your cosy armchair and laugh at their plight - wait till it happens to you.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you can stop being melodramatic and start analysing why they are in the situation they are today and by the way Bengalis are not the only ones who suffered, Punjabis suffered even worse slaughter and yet they rebuilt their lives, in Hyderabad also there was a great slaughter of Hindus and I come from Hyderabad. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->we should get those hindus back in india. sort of like isreal gives a right of passage to every jew, we should allow every hindu stuck in pakistan and bangladesh to return. cant sit and watch them get slaughtered.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes they should be brought back to India, but next Muslims will reach critical mass in Assam and West Bengal and Kerala, then these Hindus will run into more interior states, we can't keep on running forever sooner or later we have to face the problem of demography. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->resources cant keep growing forever. there's only so much of it. read thomas malthus. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes I read him and I know that resources can't keep growing so what is your point?, India is not overpopulated as I said and we can have more people, the gov't of India will only implement family planning on Muslims once they realise that India reached its max, so until then Hindus need to keep themselves in majority and we can export the surplus to the demographically dying Europe. It will have a Muslim majority by the end of this century and they don't know what to do to save themselves. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->how about a sanjay gandhi on muslims, illeterate rural hindus and such like. selective sanjay gandhi. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> You do not seem to understand that in a democracy every tom, dick and harry can't go around barging into peoples bedrooms and forcibly sterilising them, go down to these illiterate rural Hindus and tell them that they will be forcibly sterilised and see the reaction you will get. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bharatwarsh I agree that population is a problem. But it is more due to illiteracy among muslims. Look at the progressive muslims like Abdul Kalam Azad (poor guy is still a bachelor) and Sania Mirza family (two sisters only).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a worn out cliche, Kalam is an exception, also Sania Mirza has 2 sisters so her parents had 3 kids which is well above replacement fertility, in Kerala and in many other states Muslims outbreed even less educated sections like Dalits and Tribals, take Kerala the literacy rate is almost the same and yet Muslims outbreed Hindus massively, go through the old demography threads and you will see what I mean. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Today Hindus are the 3rd largest religious group in the world in spite of 1000 years of colonial rule and subjugation. Today we are 800-900 millions and spread all over the world. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> And we lost Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Kashmir, Indonesia, next we will be losing Kerala, Assam and West Bengal, we can keep on deluding ourselves but truth will stay the same.
01-28-2006, 09:01 AM
[quote=Bharatvarsh,Jan 28 2006, 08:33 AM][quote]well you can stop being sadistic about the plight of the hindus (at least on this forum!!) who have been unfortunate enough to have been economically raved by 200 years of colonialism and then have been cut off from their brethern. you never had to go through a cent of that - you wont be able to empathise. its easy to sit in your cosy armchair and laugh at their plight - wait till it happens to you.[/quote]
And you can stop being melodramatic and start analysing why they are in the situation they are today and by the way Bengalis are not the only ones who suffered, Punjabis suffered even worse slaughter and yet they rebuilt their lives, in Hyderabad also there was a great slaughter of Hindus and I come from Hyderabad. sure .. the famous (and fictional) hyderabad famine/genocide. the punjabi slaughter was about 1 year - centered around 1947, unless you count stray incidences like jalionwallahbag. not melodramatic... facts are facts....concocting canards dont help [quote]we should get those hindus back in india. sort of like isreal gives a right of passage to every jew, we should allow every hindu stuck in pakistan and bangladesh to return. cant sit and watch them get slaughtered.[/quote] Yes they should be brought back to India, but next Muslims will reach critical mass in Assam and West Bengal and Kerala, then these Hindus will run into more interior states, we can't keep on running forever sooner or later we have to face the problem of demography. in assam, muslims will get as good as they give. or better. the other 2 states i am not sure about - but as long as those 2 states remain commie, neither muslims nor any other religious faction can do much. more bsf jawans needed to be deployed in the bangladesh border immediately, and refugees with illegal ration card and other crap should be kicked back summarily. [quote]resources cant keep growing forever. there's only so much of it. read thomas malthus. [/quote] Yes I read him and I know that resources can't keep growing so what is your point?, India is not overpopulated as I said and we can have more people, the gov't of India will only implement family planning on Muslims once they realise that India reached its max, so until then Hindus need to keep themselves in majority and we can export the surplus to the demographically dying Europe. It will have a Muslim majority by the end of this century and they don't know what to do to save themselves. by 2050 europe will be a muslim majority piece of land. point is that there arnt enough resources to support 2 billion people. we dont live by bread alone so dont tell me we will have food. what about electricity and clean water or 2 billion people? [quote]how about a sanjay gandhi on muslims, illeterate rural hindus and such like. selective sanjay gandhi. [/quote] You do not seem to understand that in a democracy every tom, dick and harry can't go around barging into peoples bedrooms and forcibly sterilising them, go down to these illiterate rural Hindus and tell them that they will be forcibly sterilised and see the reaction you will get. goi should do it, not tom dick and harry. if the govt cant carry out a law it passes - then we have a problem. how come china manages to execute a 1 child policy to the word?? so shy cant goi carry out a 2 child policy? [quote]Bharatwarsh I agree that population is a problem. But it is more due to illiteracy among muslims. Look at the progressive muslims like Abdul Kalam Azad (poor guy is still a bachelor) and Sania Mirza family (two sisters only).[/quote] This is a worn out cliche, Kalam is an exception, also Sania Mirza has 2 sisters so her parents had 3 kids which is well above replacement fertility, in Kerala and in many other states Muslims outbreed even less educated sections like Dalits and Tribals, take Kerala the literacy rate is almost the same and yet Muslims outbreed Hindus massively, go through the old demography threads and you will see what I mean. [quote]Today Hindus are the 3rd largest religious group in the world in spite of 1000 years of colonial rule and subjugation. Today we are 800-900 millions and spread all over the world. [/quote] And we lost Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Kashmir, Indonesia, next we will be losing Kerala, Assam and West Bengal, we can keep on deluding ourselves but truth will stay the same. [right][snapback]45741[/snapback][/right] we wont lose kerela, bengal or assam in a hurry. we wont be losing an inch more. i understand your point about us maintaining numerical superiority. but there are other ways to do that besides getting into a breeding race - curb their numbers forcibly for one. throw out refugees, forbid polygamy, sterilise at 2 kids. last 2 applies to tribals as well. that way we will have both the numerical superiority as well as a managably large population.
01-28-2006, 09:27 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->by 2050 europe will be a muslim majority piece of land.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> This will actually be a good thing. The European Xtian rascals have tried really hard to destroy Hinduism. Let the good for nothing scumbags get busy fighting Islam in their own homes, then they won't have time to poke their nose in India. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->point is that there arnt enough resources to support 2 billion people. we dont live by bread alone so dont tell me we will have food. what about electricity and clean water or 2 billion people? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who is talking about 2 billion Hindus? We are talking about reaching a level of 1.6 billion Hindus. Right now as it stands Hindus will level off at 1.2 billion by 2050. This not enough to counter the abrahamic brigade. We need to accelerate and reach 1.6 billion. So we demographically block their expansion. Once we block their exapansion, they will have to leave India since we control 95% of the sources of employment in India. The military, police & bureaucracy are in our hands. If we play our cards right our enemies are finished.
01-28-2006, 10:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->by 2050 europe will be a muslim majority piece of land.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> This will actually be a good thing. The European Xtian rascals have tried really hard to destroy Hinduism. Let the good for nothing scumbags get busy fighting Islam in their own homes, then they won't have time to poke their nose in India. right - i even see body-shopping taking place. that will be even better. indian muslim goes to europe - sets up a body shopping agency and funnels scum out of india. we hindus should also do our bit to get rid of scum and put them in europe's plate. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->point is that there arnt enough resources to support 2 billion people. we dont live by bread alone so dont tell me we will have food. what about electricity and clean water or 2 billion people? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who is talking about 2 billion Hindus? We are talking about reaching a level of 1.6 billion Hindus. Right now as it stands Hindus will level off at 1.2 billion by 2050. This not enough to counter the abrahamic brigade. the real abrahamics - the jews - they are doing us more favours than we know. keep your eyes open though. its the secondary semetics that are millitants. but 1.6 billion isnt a small ammount either. that would stretch india hugely. we will need not just food, but shelter, clothes, water, electricity for all of them and manage them all as well We need to accelerate and reach 1.6 billion. So we demographically block their expansion. Once we block their exapansion, they will have to leave India since we control 95% of the sources of employment in India. but whats wrong with maintaing numerical superiority by decelarating them?? the problem with leaving them unemployed and disaffected is that we will have more home grown jaish-e-muhammed and godhra pilgrim burners types. The military, police & bureaucracy are in our hands. If we play our cards right our enemies are finished. well we hardly ever play our cards right. but i agree - we could make them second class citizens if we wish, thats if they already arnt. muslim reservation needs to be stopped though. afterall there are no scheduled religions in india, and if any religion has been oppressed, its us.
01-28-2006, 08:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2006, 08:40 PM by Bharatvarsh.)
Quote:sure .. the famous (and fictional) hyderabad famine/genocide.If you don't know your history then don't blame me, I am not talking about the famine in Hyderabad, I am talking about the Razakar slaughter of Hindus, from Nathuram Godse's self defence: Quote:The mind of this Mahatma was not affected by the attacks on the Hindus in Hyderabad State; and this Mahatma never asked the Nizam of Hyderabad to abandon his throne. Quote:115. In the year 1938, I led first batch of volunteers who marched into the territory of the Hyderabad State when the passive resistance movement was started by the Hindu Mahasabha, with a demand for Responsible Government in the State. I was arrested and sentenced to one year's imprisonment. I have a personal experience of the uncivilized, nay barbarous rule of Hyderabad, and have undergone the corporal punishment of dozens of cane slashes for the offence of singing the 'Vande Mataram' song at the time of prayer.From Pandit Sunderlal's report on Hyderabad: Quote:So far I had avoided the subject of the Indian army's 1948 invasion of Hyderabad State, then known as Operation Polo, and referred to today in nationalist historiography as 'the Police Action', as if all that had been involved was a few parking tickets and the odd restraining order. I had steered clear of the subject because I had been warned by mutual friends that the invasion had been an extremely difficult and painful period for Mir Moazam, who in the aftermath had been arrested and had spent several years in prison. But in the end it was Mir Moazam himself who brought the matter up.And as for Punjab, in Hindu-Muslim terms it suffered much more slaughter than Bengal did during partition. Quote:in assam, muslims will get as good as they give. or better.Lol is that why Assam is already over 30% Muslim and going down the drain, past glories of Ahom rule do not matter in dealing with Muslims at present. Quote:the other 2 states i am not sure about - but as long as those 2 states remain commie, neither muslims nor any other religious faction can do much.Last time I checked it was in commie ruled West Bengal that entire districts have been made Hindu free through low level ethnic cleansing, Bangladesh extents defacto 20 miles into India now and in commie ruled Kerala the coastal belt areas have been made Hindu free, the Marad incident was just part of this plan to cleanse off Hindu fishermen from the coastal areas. From an old article: Murshidabad is one of the poorest districts of West Bengal. And thanks to unabated illegal migration from Bangladesh it has become a Muslim majority district. Muslims had already constituted 61.39 percent of the population way back in 1991. [color=red]Now the district has become a mere extension of Bangladesh but with a difference. The atrocities on the Hindus in Bangladesh are at least reported by Mayer Dak (www.mayerdak.com), HRCBM (www.hrcbm.com), HRT (www.hrtribune.com) and a section of the Bangladeshi media. But the same incidents occurring in the nook and corner of West Bengal go unreported. A vast majority of Hindus living in the villages under the Police Stations of Jalangi, Raninagar, Hariharpara, Domkal, Beldanga and Nawada are moving to safer pastures of the towns in other districts. The border villages are now exclusively Muslim villages. And amazing isn't it. While AK-47 and LMGs are being used to drive out Hindus from Kashmir not a single bullet has been spared so far in Murshidabad but still the Hindu exodus goes on. And when the region to the east of Bhagirathi-Hoogly (Ganga) will approach Muslim majority, the demands for the `Islamistan' or `Greater Bangladesh' or `Mughalistan' (or whatever nomenclature the newest incarnation of Pakistan may have) will only get stained with the Hindu blood Samar Abbas has already articulated a demand for Mughalistan and I think your state comes under his demand. Quote:Title : Hindu Jagriti Kendra Quote:more bsf jawans needed to be deployed in the bangladesh border immediately, and refugees with illegal ration card and other crap should be kicked back summarily.BSF is corrupt and they themselves let in Bangla Muslims for bribes and its easy to talk about kicking back, there are an estimated 10 million Bangladeshi illegals and they have infitrated as far as Delhi and Mumbai so go figure on how to kick them out and what is this talk about kicking out refugees, the only refugees from Bangladesh are Hindus and some Ahmediyas who should be kicked out but so much for your feelings for Bangladeshi Hindus, you even want to kick them out just because they have illegal ration cards and so much for my sadism. Quote:by 2050 europe will be a muslim majority piece of land.Wrong, some countries will become Muslim majority but Europe as a whole needs some more time. Quote:if the govt cant carry out a law it passes - then we have a problem.How many times do I have to repeat it, China is a totalitarian state with one party rule and India is a democracy, also I have already told you about the disastrous effects of 2 child rule on sex ratio. Quote:we wont lose kerela, bengal or assam in a hurry.Is that why entire border districts are being made Hindu free through low level ethnic cleansing, is that why Hindus have been ethnic cleansed from Kashmir?, we can keep on deluding ourselves but facts stay as facts. Quote:i understand your point about us maintaining numerical superiority.All these will not happen in the near future and I already told you about the disastrous effects on sex ratio if 2 child norm is forcibly imposed and as for throwing out refugees, I think Congress was doing exactly that and fulfilling your wishes when it wanted to throw out Bangladeshi Hindu refugees from Orissa and I am the sadist one here?
01-28-2006, 08:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This will actually be a good thing.
The European Xtian rascals have tried really hard to destroy Hinduism.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is utter stupidity to rejoice about Europe becoming Muslim, Europe is largely a post Christian society and if countries like France fall then European nukes will be aimed at India sooner or later by Muslims when they take over and we will feel the heat then.
01-28-2006, 08:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jan 28 2006, 08:47 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jan 28 2006, 08:47 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This will actually be a good thing.
The European Xtian rascals have tried really hard to destroy Hinduism.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is utter stupidity to rejoice about Europe becoming Muslim, Europe is largely a post Christian society and if countries like France fall then European nukes will be aimed at India sooner or later by Muslims when they take over and we will feel the heat then. [right][snapback]45780[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all don't forget that there is always a counter reaction to any major upheaval. Do you think if Europe falls to Barbarians the world will sit and watch CNN? How naive!! Ever heard about crusades.....these EUpians still have same genes....if ever any civilization was capable of replying back with equal ferocity (roasting alive and eating ..ever heard of ??) ..it is this continent... Don't write off EU so quickly. As I have said earlier Indians will suffer because of internal weakness rather than external threat. The day even if 900 million Hindus will decide to rise up that will be it for all bigots in that land. Don't write off India so quickly...we have survived worst dark ages under the nomadic bigots..believe me.... India is also capable of generating an equal reaction if need be.....of course vast majority still slumbers.....(remember Guj ??) ....the day this giant awakens that will be it for all bigotry and terrorism from the very continent......
01-28-2006, 09:03 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the other 2 states i am not sure about - but as long as those 2 states remain commie, neither muslims nor any other religious faction can do much.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In commie ruled Kerala this is what is happening: <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Marad Beach- A Breach in our Defence Author: Publication: Vishwa Samvad Kendra/ Thiruvananthapuram Date: The massacre at Marad brings the frontline of terror closer to our doorstep. It was the 2 nd of May , sundown under a crescent moon at the Marad beach. The Hindu fishermen, most of whom had just hauled their daily catch and were resting on the beach, never knew what hit them. Three teams of about a hundred armed men climbed out of their fiberglass boats on to the shore. Another batch eased out of a house near the Marad Juma Masjid. Armed with swords and machets, clutching Coke cans filled with gelatin, they rushed in from all directions.Within minutes, the hit team melted away leaving behind the dead and the living dead. The dead -Chandran, Dasan, Gopalan, Krishnan , Madhavan, Prajeesh, Pushparaj, Santhosh,.hacked to death in a choreographed storm of flashing swords and machets. Thirteen others, some of them women, had to fight for their lives at the Kozhikode medical college. Some had their private organs torn out. You can find them, a Chandran, a Dasan, in every town or village in Kerala. Among them , Pushparaj received special treatment from the murderers. After bringing him down with swords, the assailants who had left him for dead came back to lift boulders which they dropped over his writhing body. Pushparaj died on the spot, his internal organs bursting in the impact. In the subsequent police firing on a crowd of Hindus, 13 were injured, one of them seriously. Today,twenty-five Hindus are in preventive police custody. Later ,the Kerala police recovered the bloodstained swords, some of them with pieces of hair sticking to them, from the nearby mosque along with 17 unexploded bombs. The AK Antony government took over the Mosque under the Section 27 of the Kerala Police act. Kozhikode city Police Commissioner T K Vinod Kumar told mediapersons, "it was a pre-planned and sudden attack". There were no incidents in that area which may have acted as a provocation, and there was not even a petition submitted to a police station in that area. The 'Secular' response : Marxist leader of the Opposition Com: Achuthanandan cited the building of an  Ayyappa temple at the Idukki reservoir as the reason for the attack. K Karunakaran and his son Muraleedharan blamed the 'Thrishul Deeksha'. The Communists held sit-ins all over Kerala as a protest against 'communalism'. Asianet TV channel spokesman, K P Mohanan, suddenly developed an attack of 'unbiased secularism' and called for condemnation of 'whoever was responsible for the attack'. Who knew who was responsible? The pattern was quite clear. When Hindus die, its better to be vague about who is responsible or blame both communities as being equally responsible for the violence. You just cannot blame the Muslims alone, can you? Massacre or no massacre, it was 'secularism' that mattered. V R Krishna Iyer, the 'human rights' activist who protested vehemently against the war in Iraq and the Gujarat riots was (un)characteristically silent. So were 'Cultural leaders' like ONV Kurup, M Mukundan and M T Vasudevan Nair who would usually break into cultural demonstrations and signature campaigns at the drop of a hat . When Medha Patkar , human rights / enviromental activist arrived in Kerala on the 11 th, just ten days after the massacre, some of the less cynical among of the Hindus were expecting her to utter the 'M' word. No such luck, Medha condemned the Gujarat violence of last year and the war in Iraq .But Marad was totally off her radar screen. Hindus were invisible. Expendable chaff for the greater cause of 'secularism'. Of the 96 people arrested in connection with the massacre, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>22 were active workers of the Marxist party , 28 of the IUML.</span> 'Secularism' it seems, cuts across political barriers. Terrorism has been internalized by political secular set ups. Marad is not just a beach but a frontline in the battle for survival. May 2 nd at Marad is the latest atrocity in the long series of attacks carried out to clear the beach of Hindus. If one ignores the atrocities of 1921,the attacks against the Hindu community in Marad can be said to date back to 1954, when, on the 28 th of March, Islamists attacked a procession to a Hindu temple at Naduvattom near Marad. Even before that, the anti- Hindu offensive had started in Kozhikode. October 1952 saw the murder of the President of the Cow protection council at Payyoli. The attacks continued for three months. Secular governments came and went.1958 saw a concerted campaign being organised against the procession annually taken out from the Madathala Vishwanathan temple near Chavakkad. The troubles lasted for one year. A steady exodus of Hindus from the costal regions of Kozhikode accompanied these incidents. With the roughly 130 Hindu families of Marad gone, the stretch of Kozhikode beach , <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>65 kilometers long, from Ponnani to Marad, would be totally secure- Hindu free, just as Hitler's Germany became Juden frie .</span> There are 26 private landing zones on this stretch, ideal for clandestine beach landings in moonlight .for transit of weapons.of currency. It had taken the Islamists 50 years to clear the beach. Till today, Marad is the only beach in Kozhikode where Hindu fishermen dare to go to sea on Friday. In other places a ' fatwa ' is enforced preventing anyone from going to sea on that day. Marad is a breach through which militants and sophisticated weapons can enter the state. It should be noted that today our security agencies consider Kerala a major transit point and hideout for Islamic militants in the country. Former Chief Minister E K Nayanar himself had made a statement to this effect. Recent interrogations of militants captured in Mumbai and the telephone records recovered from Kashmiri militants reinforce this truth. We are sitting on top of a volcano. It is another wake- up call to the Hindus. The Marad breach has to be closed. Wounds healed. Lessons learnt. The Hindus of the state are duty- bound to support their brothers at Marad. http://www.hvk.org/articles/0603/0.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
01-28-2006, 09:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->First of all don't forget that there is always a counter reaction to any major upheavel. Do you think if Europe falls to Barbarians the world will sit and watch CNN? How naive!! Ever heard about crusades.....these EUpians still have same genes....if ever any civilization was capable of replying back with equal ferocity (roasting alive and eating ..ever heard of ??) ..it is this continent...
Don't write off EU so quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> EU is finished, they don't have the stomach for using Islamic methods on internal Muslims, even without Muslims they are finished since they are committing demographic suicide, look at the response to the riots in France by Muslims and before in Bradford UK.
01-28-2006, 09:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jan 28 2006, 09:07 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jan 28 2006, 09:07 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->First of all don't forget that there is always a counter reaction to any major upheavel. Do you think if Europe falls to Barbarians the world will sit and watch CNN? How naive!! Ever heard about crusades.....these EUpians still have same genes....if ever any civilization was capable of replying back with equal ferocity (roasting alive and eating ..ever heard of ??) ..it is this continent...
Don't write off EU so quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> EU is finished, they don't have the stomach for using Islamic methods on internal Muslims, even without Muslims they are finished since they are committing demographic suicide, look at the response to the riots in France by Muslims and before in Bradford UK. [right][snapback]45783[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well why consider only EU consider and forget their very progeny from North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand. They are all from EU descendents...... If USA can send in its army to Vietnam and south Korea., WIll it sit and watch EU fall....come on we are not living in 19th century..... |
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