Twirp : Terrorist Wahabi Islamic Republic Pakistan 3

ramana · 11-12-2008, 02:08 AM

No matter how much lipstick is put on the TSP pig, the fact remains that the TSPA got defeated in FATA/WANA and this will have consequences on the integrity of the TSP. The way I see it, TSPA is the kabila guard that keeps the camp residents from checking out or in. The Islamist tribals have defeated the guards and its a matter of time before they get into the camp and ravage it. Usually in such cases it takes about a year or two for the rollover. SU got defeated in Afghanistan in 1988 and by 1992 they collapsed.

Naresh · 11-12-2008, 02:50 AM

ramana Ji :

Your Post #121 Today 12-11-2008 @ 02:08 AM

Whilst the collapse of Pakistan is a possibility what are repercussions that will be suffered by India and what preparations - actions should India take to guard against the âMother of all Exodusesâ.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

ramana · 11-12-2008, 03:17 AM

QUOTE("Naresh")ramana Ji :
Your Post #121 Today 12-11-2008 @ 02:08 AM

Whilst the collapse of Pakistan is a possibility what are repercussions that will be suffered by India and what preparations - actions should India take to guard against the âMother of all Exodusesâ.

Yes there will be an increase in refugees and terrorism but a big impediment for India's march will be removed. The bogey of threat to India with TSP collapse is a Western construct to keep Indians worried and prop up the very institution/entitiy that was created to hinder India. The West and PRC will take back the nukes if they havent already or lese they will get whats coming to them from the dregs. After that its a normal law and order situation.

The coallapse of TSP will be complicated and complex. There are ethnic divisions- Pakjabi vs Sindhi, Pakjabi vs Baloch, Pakjabi vs Pashtun. The Kashmiris will bleat to get vback into India. There are regional divisions- Punjab, Sindh, Baloch, Pashtun. There is urban vs rural divide. Karachi is a free for all with all the refugees. And then there is the locals vs mohajirs. Religious divide between Sunnis and Shias and others. And Iran might want to rush into balochistan which should be discouraged. Durand line will go away and lead to a new Pashtun nation. And the northern Areas might spin off. It will be a combination of FSU and Yugoslavia.

So need a strategy to engage all these groups and address their own needs. then there is the RAPE and the rest. All artists, RAPE will flock to India. The Mullahs too might want to get back to Deoband, Hyderabad, Gulbarga etc. the big problem is tTSP Army has been totally pakjabised even in the baloc Regt etc. So unlike in Bangladesh one cant count on the native regiments to take care of law and order. Some new regts have to be raised and staffed.

Naresh · 11-12-2008, 03:48 AM

ramana Ji :

Many thanks for your reply,

The Refugee Influx into Pakistan by the de-stabilization of Afghanistan is a pointer to the number of Pakistani Refugees rushing into India.

This will be in multiples of Tens of Millions especially with the Indian Hindu Leftist-Liberal Secular Leaders - the ones screaming from the roof tops of a Visa Free Entry for Pakistanis into India in General and then the Indian Muslim Leaders in Particular..

This is a very real scenario as Iran wont accept the Pakistani Refugees and Afghanistan is an unlikely destination.

As such India will be lumbered with Pakistani Refugees - in the Tens of Millions - many times that of the East Pakistan Hindus as well as Muslims ( I believe it was Nine to Ten Million) who sought refuge in India in 1971.

What measures can India take to stop this envisaged inflow?

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-12-2008, 04:17 AM by Naresh.)

Will Indiaâs Cricket Tour follow the Junior Hockey Cancellation?

Security fears Pakistan tour

BANGALORE : A day after security concerns forced the government to refuse clearance to the junior hockey teamâs tour of Pakistan, uncertainty
surrounds the Indian cricket teamâs visit, scheduled to start from January 6, next year.

Although there was no official word on it, BCCI sources told TOI on Tuesday that safety of the players would be the main consideration in deciding the timing and venue of the series.

"The final call will be taken on the basis of the governmentâs assessment in December," a senior BCCI official said.

Pakistan has not played a single Test match for more than a year, with teams like Australia and West Indies pulling out due to security concerns.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

ramana · 11-12-2008, 05:30 AM

QUOTE(Naresh @ Nov 11 2008, 10:18 PM)ramana Ji :

Many thanks for your reply,

The Refugee Influx into Pakistan by the de-stabilization of Afghanistan is a pointer to the number of Pakistani Refugees rushing into India.

This will be in multiples of Tens of Millions especially with the Indian Hindu Leftist-Liberal Secular Leaders -Â the ones screaming from the roof tops of a Visa Free Entry for Pakistanis into India in General and then the Indian Muslim Leaders in Particular..

This is a very real scenario as Iran wont accept the Pakistani Refugees and Afghanistan is an unlikely destination.

As such India will be lumbered with Pakistani Refugees - in the Tens of Millions - many times that of the East Pakistan Hindus as well as Muslims ( I believe it was Nine to Ten Million) who sought refuge in India in 1971.

What measures can India take to stop this envisaged inflow?

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />
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I do hint at steps. Local armies have to be raised for the regions to provide law and order. Current TSPA composition is Pakjabi with a few sarkari Pashtuns. A state for mohajirs has to be accounted for in the melee. Yes there will be quite few refugees outflow who might go back if the things return to noraml. Under no circumustances can the new states be allowed to have religious identity. This new jahliya will lead to instability in Middle East, Central Asia and even PRC's Sinkiang region. So its a powder keg. No easy answers. But its coming in a few years.

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-12-2008, 04:11 PM by Naresh.)

ramana Ji :

Many thanks your Post #126 of Today 12-11-2008, 05:30 AM

On first reading I couldnât agree with you more, but, on delving deeper I am stimulated to further discussion.

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)I do hint at steps.
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This is good!

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)Local armies have to be raised for the regions to provide law and order. Current TSPA composition is Pakjabi with a few sarkari Pashtuns.
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Evil Indian Kufr Hindus raise the Pious Muslims against their Pious Muslim Pakijabi Brethren?

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)A state for mohajirs has to be accounted for in the melee.
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Good Idea!!

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)Yes there will be quite few refugees outflow who might go back if the things return to normal.
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Really? You say who might go back if the things return to normal i.e. You are not sure of the quantum who might go back - if at all as also if the the things return to normal.

I state unequivocally - THEY WILL NOT. My statement is supported by about Forty Million Illegal Bangladeshi Muslims in India as well as possibly Twenty Million Illegal Pakistani Muslims in India.

I am not talking about the Hindu Refugees during the 1971 âBangladesh Warâ. How many of the East Pakistani Muslim Bengali Refugees of the time went back??

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)Under no circumstances can the new states be allowed to have religious identity.
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Tell that to the Bangladeshis!!!

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 12 2008, 05:30 AM)This new jahliya will lead to instability in Middle East, Central Asia and even PRC's Sinkiang region. So its a powder keg. No easy answers. But its coming in a few years.
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All the more reason why the Islamic Middle East and Central Asian Countries as also the Chinese will Arm, Finance and Support Pakistan!!!!

Now my suggestions :

1. Build a Strong and impregnable Fence - may be a âSolidâ Wall - along the Border with Pakistan and Bangladesh to prevent any further Illegal Infiltration-Immigration or an Exodus of Pakistani Refugees due to the de-stabilization of Pakistan.

2. Once India is secured from the âMother of All Exodusesâ then let Pakistan Stew in its own Morning Evacuation (or Evacuation at any other time of the day). It will implode on its own.

The seeds of this implosion were, in my humble opinion, sown by Jinnah when he ran Pakistan as his own personal fiefdom.

Every future Pakistani Leader has been âI DA MANâ by following in Jinnahâs footsteps.

These seeds have been Irrigated by the refusal of the Pakistani Leaders to carry out Land Reforms.

The Pakistani Armed Forces to justify their âraison dâÃªtreâ have provided the necessary Fertilizer to the eventual implosion of Pakistan by keeping up the âLurd Kay Liya Tha Pakistan - Huns Kay Laingay Hindustanâ Clarion Call i.e. To Conquer India, Destroy All the Kufr and Islamize India.

Thus if the above three policies are not changed then the âImplosion of Pakistanâ is guaranteed.

All I can say is that by separating East Pakistan and creating Bangladesh India created a âSecond Snakeâ (I trust you get my meaning).

By creating Five States out of Pakistan India will create an additional Four Snakes.

The Indian Government has to bend backwards for getting âTransitâ facilities through Pakistan to trade with Afghanistan.

The Indian Government has to go through all the hassle to use the Bangladesh Rivers for West Bengal- Assam Trade - nearly all the River Barges (supposed to be 50% Indian Flag and 50% Bangladesh Flag) are Bangladesh Flag-Control.

In similar circumstances India will have to possibly transit through Two if not Three âSnake Statesâ to get through to Afghanistan.

Thus I would opine that India strengthen itself against Pakistani and Bangladeshi Illegal Immigration as well as Refugee Exodus and let Pakistan as also Bangladesh Stew - shall we say - in their Own Shizzer.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-13-2008, 08:22 AM

Bomber hits sport ceremony; 3 killed

$4bn sent abroad âlegallyâQUOTESLAMABAD, Nov 11: The âlegalâ transfer outside Pakistan of over four billion dollars in the last few months, or the so-called flight of capital from the country, through normal banking channels or authorised dealers, was made possible because of an amendment made in the foreign exchange law during the previous regime and which, besides the central bank officials, was in the knowledge of only a few powerful individuals.

Successive governments, particularly the one led by Shaukat Aziz, remained so secretive about the change made in the law in 2003 that during all this period neither the finance ministry nor the State Bank of Pakistan posted it on its website

Naresh · 11-13-2008, 02:55 PM

Cross-Posted from the "Energy Thread"

ramana Ji :

Seemingly the Iranians have accessed our Discussion about the Prospective Implosion of Pakistan :

[center]IPI project: Iran backs out of gas deal <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />[/center]

ISLAMABAD : Iran has backed out of the Gas Sales Purchase Agreement, making new proposals for selling gas to the IPI project.

Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has convened a crucial meeting here on Thursday to discuss the matter, a senior government official told The News. Iran wants that in case gas supply to India is wilfully disrupted by Pakistan, then Iran will reduce supply of gas to Pakistan in the same proportion.

Tehran also wants Islamabad to allow one price review before the IPI project gets operational. Under the proposal, Iran will be authorised to re-open the price formula even before the commencement date of the project. This would trigger complete uncertainty in the prices of piped gas to be imported.

Iran wants to move the price formula closer to spot market prices, rather than long-term contract prices that is imperative to establish the viability of the project. However, Pakistan is of the view that uncertainty in gas price will make the IPI project economically unviable. Pakistanâs stance is that the price of imported gas must be competitive to alternate fuels in Pakistan market.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmud Qureshi, who also holds the portfolio of Petroleum Minister, along with Petroleum Secretary GA Sabri will brief the prime minister on the proposed amendments to the Gas Sales Purchase Agreement. Members of the Senate Committee on IPI would also attend the meeting.

The official said Iran also wanted the removal of upper cap of $70 per barrel in the âSâ curve, which is a well-known project management tool and displays cumulative costs. The earlier GSPA was agreed on a trilateral basis in the light of gas pricing study by an independent international consultant.

Pakistan wants that any revision proposed by Iran should also be considered on a trilateral basis, unless and until Iran confirms its readiness to proceed bilaterally with Pakistan. The Pakistani side is also of the view that the Principle of âSâ curve should be preferably retained. However, considering the current crude oil prices, the existing pricing band of $30 to $70 per barrel, could be suitably adjusted to reflect the current crude oil prices. This concession to Iran would only be considered if Iran proceeded with the project bilaterally.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

ramana · 11-14-2008, 01:38 AM

I thought we wee having polite conversation. Why the shouting and screaming as shown by bolded and colored fonts?

All I can say is an "iron fence wont stop the termites" which can flyover ita nd infect your own people. My approach will reduce and eliminate the pestilence. By building the iron fence one will spend scarce resources in it and not solve the problem which is recovery of the near abroad of India. I am thinking of four- five hndered years from now to regain the lost lands which were really lost inthe last hundred years.

By accepting the Partition we have allowed TSP to create a Dar -ul-Islam. All those bogus history books have justified this by pretending that India begins at Delhi and that Prithivi Raj Cahuhan's defeat was the conquest of India. India begins from Herat.

They had nominal rulership in those areas and hadd significant Hindu populations which was ethnicaly cleansed.

Anyway I think we are on same side. So no need to shout with colored fonts. You might have a viewpoint different than me but that doesnt mean you drive me off.

Naresh · 11-14-2008, 11:01 PM

ramana Ji :

Many thanks your reply of today Nov 14 2008, 01:38 AM Post #130

Please be rest assured that there was no intention of âshouting and screamingâ with the usage of bolded and coloured fonts. It was done only to highlight a fact in the minds-thinking of us Indians i.e. that it âmightâ happen. What we need to have is mental strength to affirm in a resounding manner âThere will be possibly of a minimal of refugees from Pakistan and all of them will be made to return to Pakistanâ

As such one would request that no umbrage be taken but - despite reassurance - if it is, then one offers oneâs humble apologies.

Now to the stopping of Illegal Immigration - Refugee Exodus : As a period of Four to Five Hundred Years is envisaged to regain the lost lands which were really lost in the Last Hundred Years one must take into account the Demographic Changes - with respect to the Religious Content - which will take place especially with the Pakistani Muslims coming into India, by fair means or foul, during the Envisaged Period.

Re Partition : With 15% Muslim Population the Problems being faced by India are enormous indeed. I shudder to think as to what would happen with an Un-divided India having a 35% Muslim Population!

Please do continue the dialogue as I do respect and give due weight to your views.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

ravish · 11-15-2008, 03:53 PM

Pakistan's expectations

IHT reports
Quote

Pakistanis hope U.S. under Obama will be less bossy

Reuters
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Barack Obama's victory fostered hopes in Pakistan that the United States would become less overbearing towards its ally in the war on terrorism, and nurture the country's recent return to civilian-led democracy.

"I think he will understand that the use of brute force alone creates more enemies and widens the zone of conflict," Talat Masood, a retired Pakistani general turned analyst, said.

"I think he will put greater emphasis on developing civilian capacities," he added, pointing to a bill proposed by Obama's Vice President-elect Joe Biden to provide Pakistan with a multi-billion dollar "democracy dividend" package.

Under Pakistan's previous leader, former army chief Pervez Musharraf, most U.S. aid went to Pakistan's military. Musharraf quit in August, and his successor, President Asif Ali Zardari, has inherited an economy in danger of meltdown.

Relations between the United States and nuclear-armed Pakistan have been strained by a series of cross-border U.S. strikes, most by missile-firing pilotless drone aircraft, on militant targets in Pakistan.

The strikes have hardened anti-American sentiment in Pakistan at a time when the coalition government is trying to build popular support for its own campaign against Islamist militancy.

Samina Ahmed, South Asia project director for International Crisis Group, believed Obama's victory would lead to a make-over for the United State's image.

"Obama's victory will restore not just the faith of Americans in their democracy, but the world's faith in American democracy," she said.

"Obama and his party will employ a policy of international engagement that is based on consultation and not intimidation."

Widely regarded as the hiding place for Osama bin Laden, Pakistan is seen as vital to bringing stability to neighboring Afghanistan and defeating al Qaeda.

Former Pakistani foreign secretary Shamshad Ahmed Khan said Pakistan would remain in the "eye of the storm, but he expected a more nuanced U.S. approach to its ally: "Democrats have always behaved with restraint and engagement."

While campaigning Obama said he would authorise strikes against militant targets in Pakistan, if the Pakistani government failed or was unable to act itself.

His rival, John McCain, didn't rule that out but said a U.S. leader should not say things out loud.

Mahmood Shah, a former security chief in Pakistan's violence-plagued tribal lands on the Afghan border, foresaw Obama showing "more moderation" once he was in office.

But ordinary Pakistanis were sceptical.

"It doesn't make any difference if Obama or anybody else has won because they have same anti-Muslim, anti-Islam policies. We shouldn't be happy just because there's a change of face," said Hafiz Mohammad Ashraf, 26, an electrician in the city of Multan.

"I'll be happy if he ends Bush's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and stops killing Muslims."

(Reporting by Pakistan bureaux; Editing by Sanjeev Miglani)

Correction:

Unquote

11-16-2008, 08:45 AM

Pakistan Agrees to $7.6 Billion IMF Loan Program QUOTENov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan reached an agreement in principle with the International Monetary Fund on a $7.6 billion loan package aimed at preventing the nation from defaulting on foreign debt and restoring investor confidence.

The loan ``will be used for the balance of payments and to build our foreign reserves,'' Shaukat Tarin, the de facto finance minister, said today at a televised news conference in Karachi.
.....
Pakistan will seek financial support from the `Friends of Pakistan' group, which is due to meet on Nov. 17 in the United Arab Emirates. The group, which was established last month to help Pakistan stabilize its economy, includes the U.S., U.K., China and Saudi Arabia. 

``The `Friends of Pakistan' group wanted us to get an IMF endorsement for our economic program,'' Tarin said.

Naresh · 11-16-2008, 11:27 PM

Gilani urges China, India to utilise Karachi port <!--emo& Confused

tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' />

QUOTEKARACHI, Nov 15 : Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistani ports could cater for the needs of Indiaâs northern and northwestern states and also Chinaâs Xinjiang province because of proximity.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-16-2008, 11:31 PM

Get your English right

An advertisement by the Punjab health department concerning the indication and prevention of dengue fever on the front page of the Nov 13 newspaper is a spelling and grammar disaster. The word 'severe' has been spelt as 'swear', 'flu' as 'flue' and 'itching' as 'etching'. One would expect a properly spelt and grammatically correct ad on the front page of an English newspaper of your calibre.

Tehmina Afridi

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-18-2008, 07:06 AM

Lashkar commander, 16 militants killed in Bajaur

Minister trys to allay public fears about Hajj quota QUOTEISLAMABAD: The Minister for Religious Affairs Sahibzada Hamid Saeed Kazmi on Monday allayed the allegations of theft of 10,000 Hajj forms or their sale against hefty price with connivance of his office staff and allocation of quota to ineligible tour operators.
How many are terrorist?

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-18-2008, 10:52 PM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 18 2008, 07:06 AM)Minister trys to allay public fears about Hajj quota <div class='quotetop'>QUOTEISLAMABAD: The Minister for Religious Affairs Sahibzada Hamid Saeed Kazmi on Monday allayed the allegations of theft of 10,000 Hajj forms or their sale against hefty price with connivance of his office staff and allocation of quota to ineligible tour operators.
How many are terrorist?
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</div>

Mudy Ji :

ALL!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-19-2008, 12:50 AM

NEWSLINE NOVEMBER 2008 EDITORâS NOTE

QUOTE Pakistan government is reported to have ordered 10 bullet-proof BMWs, each costing approximately between US$ 80,000 to 90,000.

Does this sound like the government of a country that is on the brink of default, and that is most likely to seek a five to six billion dollar IMF loan facility after being shown the door by âfriends of Pakistan.â , even Pakistanâs best friend China looked the other way when President Zardari pleaded for help. <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-19-2008, 01:53 AM

US military launches joint border operation with Pakistan

WASHINGTON : The US military has launched a coordinated operation with Pakistani forces to put pressure on insurgents on both sides of Afghanistan's wild eastern frontier, a US military commander said Tuesday.

Dubbed "Operation Lionheart," the operation takes cooperation between US, Afghan and Pakistani forces to "the next level" in terms of intelligence sharing and coordination, said Colonel John Spiszer.

"We are in coordination on a daily basis with the Frontier Corps," said Spiszer, who commands the 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade.

The US military has long complained about the Pakistani military's failure to act against insurgent sanctuaries in its border tribal areas. But Pakistan's Frontier Corps has been engaged over the past two months in fighting in Bajaur, which borders Afghanistan's Kunar province.

Admiral Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that the Pakistani operations in Bajaur have had a "significant impact."

Spiszer said his troops were working along the Kunar River valley and up into the mountain passes along the border to intercept and ambush insurgents trying to escape from Pakistani operations in its Bajaur Agency.

"What we have done is worked very hard to refocus our ISR assets, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance assets to do everything we can to identify transiting across the border," he said.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-19-2008, 03:44 AM

Foreign debt dips by $737m

QUOTEKARACHI - The external debt and foreign exchange liabilities of Pakistan showed a surprising decline of 737 million dollars during the first five months of this financial year.

In June 2008, the foreign debt and liabilities stood at 46.284 billion dollars, which have dropped to 45.547 billion dollars by November 30, 2008, showing a decrease of 740 million dollars.

From July-November 2008, the foreign debt dropped to 43.854 billion dollars, from 44.467 billion dollars. Thus the foreign debt showed a decline of 613 million dollars in first five months of this fiscal against the quantum of foreign debt in June 2008.

This is a typical example of Pakistani Madrassah Maths.

Please refer to : Pakistan's External Debt and Liabilities

1. Figures as on 30-06-2008

Total External Liabilities : USD 46.284Billion

Official Liquid Reserves : USD 08.577 Billion

Debt on 30-06-2008 : USD 37.707 Billion

2. Figures as on 30-09-2008

Total External Liabilities : USD 45.547 Billion

Official Liquid Reserves : USD 04.873 Billion

Debt on 30-09-2008 : USD 40.674 Billion

i.e. Net Debt increased : USD 02.967 Billion in Three Months <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/liar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='liar.gif' />

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

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