Pakistan News And Discussion-11

[shamu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2007, 03:07 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2007, 03:07 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->http://geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=8722&param=1
<b>Corpse of Rasheed Ghazi flown to Rojhan Mazari </b>
ISLAMABAD: The corpse of Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi has been flown to Rojhan Mazari.
...
On the other hand, preparations for the <b>funeral of Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi are already being made in Rojhan Abdullah, an area of Rojhan Mazari in Balochistan.</b>

Four graves have been prepared in Rojhan Abdullah, which is the native place of Maulana Abdul Rasheed. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]71100[/snapback][/right]
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They should build a a huge tomb/masjid so that all future jihadis can go there to make vows to become shaheed. Some mullah should declare that anybody who become a shaheed like will go to heaven and fulfill his dreams.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Meantime I think China is marking time as it is quite possible that the Mullahs direct their ire at China and then who knows what might happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because chini provides asallah to Kashmiri fundoos. They all are in bed. Baloch are against Chini because of pride and Paki Army will eat profits from Gwadar port, baloch will get nothing. Bumping Gazi is more related to Paki Army + Chini equation against Baloch freedom struggle.
Chini concern was loss of business not whores caught by Mullahs.

Interesting time.
Paki Army is in full control of country and fundoos. They can't function without Army. They are lucky against Indians because they gets full support from ISI and Paki Army.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->They should build a a huge tomb/masjid so that all future jihadis can go there to make vows to become shaheed. Some mullah should declare that anybody who become a shaheed like will go to heaven and fulfill his dreams. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Paki fundoos are myth; it is all Paki Army and ISI which is successful.
Now everything is clear.
Average Sikhs reaction during and after operation Blue Star was more vocal and violent. Sikhs were not fundoos or brainwashed. These fundoos are coward and somehow ISI and Army are able to create a myth. Only they have number.

[Guest]

<b>China, not US, forced Musharraf to act</b>

[Naresh]

[center]<b><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Over 500 killed in ‘Operation Silence’</span></b>[/center]

<b>Saeed Minhas - The Frontier Post : 12-07-2007</b>

<b>ISLAMABAD : More than 500 dead bodies of female and male students have been recovered from the debris of the Lal Masjid in the second phase of Operation Silence, claimed some independent sources. However, ISPR spokesperson claims that final figure could not be ascertained but estimates the death toll between 150 and 250.</b> Independent sources, not wished to be quoted said that almost 600 students were injured during the final assault of the commandos on the mosque compound on Tuesday. The injured are kept at various city hospitals while some have also been moved to nearby cities as all the injured are presumed arrested and charged for taking up arms against the state. <b><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Owing to shortage of morgues in twin cities of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, it is learnt that many of the dead bodies, with the exception of army men, were shifted to nearby cities of Kharian, Jehlum and Gujrat.</span></b>

Identification of many of the killed during the combat remain unclear because the bodies were removed in bulk soon-after the operation and were dispatched in all directions using the military vehicles, informed the sources. Sources further revealed that dead body of Ghazi Rashides mother could not yet be identified, a fact also endorsed by both ISPR and Interior ministry. <b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>However, sources say that since lots of bodies were removed in bulk quantities from the scene in the afternoon on Tuesday,</span></b> army or civil administration might need the assistance of a family member to identify her. Since its too messy and sketchy at present, taking the relative through the morgues might not be advisable at this time, informed inside sources. <b><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Media was not allowed to visit the mosque owing to threat from some holed up militants inside the mosque as sound of explosions continued to rip the air throughout the day.</span></b> Army spokesman, Arsahd Waheed further informed the media that 10 security personals lost their lives during the operation while 33 were admitted to army hospitals with bullet injuries. He insisted that the operation against militants in Lal Masjid was still on as three more militants were killed and five others were arrested on Wednesday while fighting with the Pak Army commandos.

Elaborating the further he said that the first phase of the operation was focused on getting the militants cleared of the mosque complex. The second phase of the operation to clean Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa was underway. He said that at present army personals were clearing the basements of the Jamia Hafsa, where landmines or booby-traps have been planted by the militant students. <b><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>To the dismay of dozens of journalists from national and international media, the military spokesman said that visit of the media persons, as intimated earlier in the day, would not be possible on Wednesday</span></b> but hoped that a visit of media men to the mosque complex would be arranged tomorrow. To a query he said that holes in the walls of the mosque were made during the operation to get release of hostage children and women. He denied any incident of suicide bombing in the country after the operation, saying that the law and order situation is under control. Earlier, funeral for nine security personals killed during the Operation Silence was offered at Chaklala airbase in Rawalpindi where the attending President in the presence of high command of the Pakistan army vowed to root out extremism from the country.

<b>Comments : 800 Shrouds were asked to be delivered in addition to the 300 delivered Earlier.</b>

The Valiant Islamic Pakistani Army has always been successful in Slaughtering its own People I.e. Millions in Bangladesh, 10-20,000 in Baluchistan under Tikka Khan.

In addition the Valiant Islamic Pakistani Army very methodically and with great efficiency Slaughtered 10-20,000 Palestinian Muslims under the Black September Operation under the Pakistani Brigadier Zia Ul Huq.

<b>Old Habits Die Hard!</b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Paki Army supported Govt media is claming no woman killed but they are unable to identify Gazi mother among other bodies. Not sure whether Army media is suggesting Gazi mother was male look a like.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Meeting Ghazi Sahib</b> - TFT

The Lal Masjid-Jamias Hafsa and Fareedia have been taken over by Pakistani security forces after an operation against the complex on July 3, 2007, two weeks after I visited the complex. Here’s the story of what I saw.

A journalist friend in Islamabad agreed to try and get me into the premises of the Lal Masjid and the adjoining Jamia Hafsa seminary for women around the same time the Hafsa women raided what they claimed was a brothel owned and operated by a group of Chinese women and men, and abducted them along with two Pakistani male customers. The action, meant to warn and thence curb “sexual depravity” in Pakistani society, got China to take notice and protest openly to Pakistan.

I called Ghazi Abdul Rashid, deputy administrator of the Red Mosque, to finalise my trip to the mosque. The voice on the other end sounded surprisingly normal, and in response to my query about whether I should come to the Lal Masjid in a burqa, I heard a chuckle: “You are a Pakistani lady, yes? No need for the burqa. Just come dressed normally.” When I arrived at the mosque at 9 am the next morning, June 27, 2007, I was asked to cover my hair before being escorted inside by two bearded guards.

Facing me was a rundown brick wall with some Quranic verses scrawled on it in white paint. We turned right and a few feet down was another wall, obstructing any possibility of a larger view. Leaning against one wall was a large number of sticks the public had got so used to seeing being wielded by the Jamia Hafsa women. In a small clearing stood a group of men and boys in black turbans, and the straggly black beards, shalwar-kameezes and pathani sandals generally associated with the Taliban. They sported automatic weapons slung across their shoulders. My guide stopped and said that I’d have to leave the bags behind with him before I could proceed further to meet with Ghazi Sahib.

I needed my recorder to tape the interview, as well as my camera to take some pictures. As I was protesting, Ghazi Sahib made his appearance from one corner and asked if I was the woman who had come for the interview. He motioned the guard away, and I was asked to follow him, bags and all.

Ghazi Sahib on the Taliban and Pakistan government

We entered Mr Ghazi’s office in a low-lying building, a room really, with a little awning of straw and corrugated steel. Here, as I sat across from him on a small black couch, while he sat at his desk before a computer screen, he proceed to speak in English into the hand-held recorder I had brought along.

A young bearded man, sitting on the carpeted floor, gun slung across his shoulder, flipped open for me the provocative centrefold in a magazine against whose owners, publishers and staff, the mosque had issued a fatwa. It was a photograph of a male and female model scantily-clad in fig-leaf costume, acting out some Adam and Eve fantasy. “No religion allows its prophets to be treated disrespectfully, does it?” Mr Ghazi asked rhetorically. “The owners and models should know better than to dress up in this obscene manner in an Islamic society.” He smiled. “But now that they have apologised, we have removed the fatwa. We are reasonable people.”

Out of 13,000 registered madrassahs in Pakistan, the Jamia Hafsa, according to Ghazi Sahib, was the only school that provided training in Islamic Studies to females. He claimed that the school was the largest Islamist seminary for women in the world, with 6,000 students, mostly residential but many day scholars from surrounding neighbourhoods in Islamabad and Rawalpindi. Both the male and female seminaries run by the Lal Masjid, with a total student population of 10,000, were according to Ghazi Sahib, running only on donations from Pakistani citizens.

Ghazi Sahib said that it was both to retaliate against the West’s neo-imperialist and anti-Islamic policies, as well as the corrupt Pakistani government and upper-classes which are working in tandem to promote anti-poor and anti-Muslim agendas of the West, that outfits like the Jamia Hafsa and Lal Masjid had come into existence as the Voice of the Oppressed. I understood him to mean that terror begets terrorism, which has been the line of most Al Qaeda apologists.

“If I start practicing Islam you call me a fundamentalist, and extreme; what about secular extremism? What about the practices of vulgarity, ***** and prostitution which are rampant all over Islamabad and Lahore because of Musharraf’s policy of so-called Enlightened Moderation?” Ghazi Sahib asked in response to my question of his imposing his version of Islam on the country. “We do not want to enforce our views on others, but look at people like Auntie Shamim, who was reported to the police many times for un-Islamic business and oppressive practices against the young girls she employed.”

Seeing my eyes widen, Ghazi Sahib quickly added: “The poor girls in her service were arrested by the police several times and they revealed that they were badly exploited by her; they even came to us crying and complaining of the treatment they received at her hands – how they were promised good decent jobs and then just taken to clients and handed 8,000 rupees for their services. All this is on record with the police; yet nothing was ever done about it. No FIR was ever registered against Shamim. This is only so because she has links with senior officials in the government,” Ghazi said.

We then turned to the question of whether Lal Majid’s agenda with regards to women was similar to that of the Taliban: “But before you answer that, Ghazi Sahib, I want to know how it is okay in your book to be staring openly at me, and have your own women here covered from head to toe?”

Ghazi Sahib went on to give me his theory of the “pietistic” gaze. “You know, my wife drives. I am not against women outside the home. I did not force you to wear a burqa, now did I? This should tell you that we are not against freedom. We are not forcing women to veil themselves. But in an Islamic state, Islamic values should dominate.”

I reminded him again of the Taliban agenda and what that had translated into for the unfortunate women of Afghanistan. In response, he began to wax eloquent about the “total peace” the Taliban had brought to the country, how they’d abolished poppy cultivation and the warlord system. But, above all, said Ghazi Sahib, they announced severe punishments for all the men who would deny inheritance rights to their sisters and mothers. “Why,” asked Ghazi Sahib, “did the world and the media focus only on their [Taliban] mistakes?”

To my amazement, he argued that it wasn’t that the Taliban were against female education but just that they were trying to manage a war-ravaged country which necessarily meant lining up their priorities.  “And women’s education was not a priority?” I asked. He responded: “That is like asking someone who is starving why he does not eat cake. It’s like an American asking a beaten-down, war-ravaged Afghani without a roof over his head, why his children don’t sleep in an air-conditioned room.” He paused and then said: “The Taliban were never given a chance to complete their vision. But I am not advocating that system. I am only saying that the current system of here is corrupt, lawless and no one fights for the rights of the poor and the downtrodden.”

Time was up. He gestured to the women seated on the floor to escort me to the Jamia Hafsa seminary next door, and assured me he was available for further questions on telephone and email. I walked into the blazing heat outside, and heard him say to the women: “Be sure to give the scholar some lunch. Let Umm-e Hassan guide her and answer her questions.”

Inside the Jamia Hafsa

I followed the women to a reception area and was then ushered into the room adjoining the reception area to my left. There, in a modest-sized room, I was introduced to eight or nine women, half of them students, the others their teachers. I was invited to sit down and offered a soft drink. One student began talking to me about many things, particularly economics.

Before I knew it, we were thick into Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations . Amina Adeem very solemnly declared that Adam Smith and other western economists and thinkers, because they were afraid of Muslims’ collective strength, had decided that the best way to avoid an Islamic revival was to promote an economic model that would ensnare the Muslim Ummah in money-worship.  The decadent lifestyle that invariably accompanies the worship of such an idol has transformed what should have been Dar-ul-Islam – the Land of Islam – into Dar-ul-Kufr, or the Land of Unbelievers.

“Look,” she continued breathlessly, “at these rich, disgusting men of our society today who are not happy despite many wives, mistresses, cars, guards. Look at Abdul Rehman bin Arif, Abu Obeida, and Abu Bin Jaraa, leaders who lived like ordinary folk. Their homes were never looted, they did not live in fear of dacoits. But here, today, is the rule of dacoits. Who can afford mutton at Rs350 a kilo?”

There was a sudden hush as a fair-complexioned woman, slightly stout but good-looking, wearing a gray-blue shalwar kameez and holding a young boy in her arms, entered the room. “Welcome, you must be the professor Ghazi Sahib sent our way.” She sat down on the sofa next to me, and I informed her I had been having a most informative chat with her students, but that they wouldn’t let me tape them without her permission. “Oh no, I am afraid that is not allowed,” she said firmly, and then, in response to my query if I might photograph them, she replied again in the negative. “Not even with their burqas on?” I pleaded. “No. Why objectify us like that? That would serve only a sensational purpose and surely that is not why you are here?”

Very quickly, the woman, Umm-e-Hassan, Abdul Aziz’s wife and the principle of Jamia Hafsa, informed me that she was a Punjabi, not a Pathan as one may assume given her tall, fair carriage.  She claimed to have been in the school since 1992 when it came into existence, with her as founder and principal. I calculated that her tenure had lasted fifteen years, and she was, still, a young woman, maybe in her mid thirties.

Continuing where the younger students had left off on the subject of poverty, Umm-e Hassan told me that Pakistan needed economists schooled in the University of the Prophet. “What need do we have of PhDs from abroad when our own folks cannot find decent jobs? Over 300 people commit suicide on average every month because they are jobless.” Not more than an hour earlier, Ghazi Sahib had told me the figure was 3,000 suicides annually.

I asked the women why she called herself ‘Umm-e Hassan’; why so many others used the Arabic appellation. She shot back ferociously: “We love Arabs; we love our Prophet who was Arab and so we take our names from them. Some people like Imran Khan and Lady Diana and name their children after them; why criticise us?”

I then asked that I wanted to see a classroom. “Take her to the Hadith class,” she told the younger girls, and then said to me: “I will instruct them to treat you to the Naara-e-Takbir. That will be something you’ll remember, I’m sure.”

In the classroom, a sea of white hijabs greeted my vision, rows upon rows of pubescent girls stretching back as far as the eye could see. Hundreds of them were seated on the carpeted floor, under slowly whirring ceiling fans, with huge register-like books marked, “Hadith” spread out in front of them on long low wooden planks. An odour of musky perspiration hung in the air, and the principal, who entered right behind me, instructed the girls to shout out the “naara-e-takbir”.

From the back, a voice declared, “Naara-e-takbir” and then, the room began to rumble as hundreds of voices combined to raise a salute to God with one “Allah-ho-Akbar!” after another.

As I walked out of the compound, the girls asked me if I would visit again. “Of course I will; and we shall continue our discussions further. Maybe I will persuade you!” I teased. At this, one women replied seriously, “We pray that the guardian angels we have urged to take their places on your shoulders will protect you from all manner of evil. Maybe it is you who will have converted to our point of view by the time you return to us next.”

Two weeks after my visit, on Tuesday July 10, 2007, the mosque and the seminary have been ‘cleansed’ by the state.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<b>US warns its citizens in Pakistan</b>

<b>Pakistan's 'silent majority' welcomes mosque raid </b>

[Guest]

<b>Eight killed in Pakistan blasts after mosque raid </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) - A suicide blast and a separate roadside bombing killed eight people in Pakistan Thursday, officials said, as a deadly army raid on militants in an Islamabad mosque sparked Islamist anger.

Five people, including three police, were killed and several others wounded outside a religious centre in the Himalayan tourist town of Mingora by the bomb, local administration chief Syed Mohammed Javed told AFP by telephone
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b>US intelligence chiefs fret over Pakistan </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->WASHINGTON (AFP) - US intelligence chiefs urged Pakistan to wage a more vigorous pursuit of terrorism, warning that its lawless region bordering Afghanistan has become a sanctuary for Al-Qaeda and Taliban diehards.

But despite its own intelligence community's misgivings, the US administration of George W. Bush is standing by President Pervez Musharraf as Pakistan's military ruler faces one of his gravest crises yet.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<b>Defiance in Pakistan at Red Mosque cleric's funeral</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> The chief cleric, Maulana Abdul Aziz, was escorted by police to the village, Basti Abdullah, so that he could lead the funeral attended by about 3,000 mourners and some 700 police, including 100 plainclothes officers, officials said. Aziz remains under arrest facing charges including possession of illegal weapons and involvement in terrorism. Officials did not immediately comment on why they let him preach at the funeral.

........


Meanwhile, the bodies of about 70 of Ghazi's followers, including two minors, were buried in a graveyard near Islamabad's police academy. Officials said they took photographs, fingerprints and DNA samples from the bodies before the simple wooden coffins were lowered into shallow, temporary graves to help relatives identify and claim the bodies later.

According to official reports, 108 people died in eight days of fighting around the mosque and its adjoining girls' seminary, which militants had used as a base to challenge the government with an increasingly aggressive anti-vice campaign in the capital. <b>Many in Pakistan are skeptical and believe the death toll could be higher</b>.

.........

<b>Many of the protesters chanted "Go, Musharraf, go!" and "Musharraf is a dog!"</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't understand, why they insult dogs?
Why they have not kept them in morque? They are hiding head count.

[Guest]

<b>Burnt bodies found at Red Mosque</b>

[Guest]

<b>SUCH GUP </b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Bright sparks</b>
When Maulana Abdul Aziz, who escaped from Isloo’s Lal Masjid in a burqa, was paraded before cameras and shown on Pakistan Television in his black female garb, the world presumed that it was the handiwork of more loyal than the king types at Pakistan Television. We hear that is not the case. In fact, when the decision was taken to parade the Maulana to the world in his burqa, officials at PTV recorded their disagreement and said that the initiative was in bad taste and would backfire. Our mole says they were overruled by some bright sparks at the headquarters of the Invisible Soldiers Inc and the deed was done. We have heard that even the cameraman was supplied by the bright sparks and did not belong to PTV. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<b>Interpreter needed </b>
Before the last minute negotiators went off to the Lal Masjid in a vain attempt to persuade the late Maulana Abdul Rashid to lay down arms, there was a meeting at Shortcut’s house. The composition of the negotiation party was debated and decided at Shortcut’s house. A fly on the wall reports that the lady minister who has replaced Nelofar Bakhtiar, sacked at the behest of the clerics of the Lal Masjid, insisted that she wanted to be part of the negotiating party. There was skepticism about her utility but she insisted and was included in the party. This elicited a sarcastic comment from the state min of int who said, “we’ll need an interpreter for her”.

<b>Hardship to hazard</b>
Representatives in Isloo of countries of the European Union are thinking of cutting back drastically on their personnel in Pakistan. It is dawning on them that Islamabad is not simply a hardship posting, it is downright hazardous.  <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->


<b>Happiness in Haryana </b>
Khushi, a beautiful Lahori dancing girl has just returned to her native city from a month long sojourn in Haryana. We hear she was “sent” there by a prominent Punjabi at the behest of Haryana’s head honcho’s son. We also hear that having spread a lot of happiness in Haryana for a whole month, the lady received Rs 30 lakh (Indian) for her troubles.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Nuggets from the Urdu press

<b>John Negroponte is a modern Ibn-e-Ziad</b>
Daily Pakistan, quoted from a BBC correspondent that John Negroponte has the same role in modern world that Ibn e Ziad had in Muslim history. He started his career as a political officer in Siagan and was an advisor to different regimes in South Vietnam. In the 70s he was the head of Vietnam affairs in the Security Council under Henry Kissinger. He was ambassador to Honduras while Gustavo Martinez’s death squads were killing hundreds of people there. He was the first American ambassador in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein. He was then made director of national intelligence, and in 2007 he became the Deputy Foreign Minister.

<b>A girl crosses over to India in protest</b>
As reported in daily Nawa-e-Waqt, a Kashimiri girl of Azad Kashmir crossed over to Indian-held Kashmir in protest of an arranged marriage against her wishes. The Indian police arrested her and contacted Pakistan officials to return her to Pakistan. She was caught in the poonch sector by Indian security forces.

<b>America is using HIMARS in Waziristan</b>
As reported in daily Express, many foreign citizens and wrriors died in attack on a madrassa in North Waziristan. The US is using a new rocket system that is a modern version of a predator spy plane called a HIMARS. This system is fixed on a truck and can lock a target via computer in 16 seconds. It can be guided with the GPS system, and Americans can attack targets in Pakistan. HIMARS can also use laser-guided missiles that add to the accuracy of hitting a target.

<b>Young boy kills himself over morning prayers </b> <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As reported in daily Jang, a jobless young boy, Adeel, committed suicide when his father Mir Din woke him for morning prayers. His father woke him every morning for prayers, but he dodged his efforts. Yesterday, when his father again woke him, he refused, and when his father exerted forced young Adeel Butt shot himself. His father was shocked when he saw the dead body of his son.

<b>Title of Saifullah for Osama bin Laden </b>
As reported in daily Nawa-e-Waqt, Pakistan Ulema Council gAve the title of ‘Saifullah’ to Osama bin Laden. They told a French news agency that they are happy to award this title to Osama bin Laden.

<b>Akhwans under attack in Egypt</b>
In daily Express, Hafiz Mohammad Idrees wrote that the Egyptian authorities have once again targeted akhwans and that has brought Egypt’s economy to the brink of destruction. Egyptian authorities arrested the naib of akhwan mushid aam and 30 akhwan owners of trading firms and have frozen their assets. According to their estimates, 12 billion Egyptian pounds are transferred from Egypt to different countries

<b>Who is killing Shias in Iraq?</b>
As reported in daily Express, in a busy commercial area in central Baghdad, a car bomb in front of a Shia mosque killed 80 people and injured 130 people. According to French news, agency clashes between the Mehdi militia and the Iraqi security forces have killed 16 people. In southern Baghdad, fighting between the Mehdi militia and security forces continued for the second day.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Operation Not-so-Silent   
FT
<b>Lal Masjid as logic of Islamic rejectionism</b>
Khaled Ahmed
<i>The seminary is the symbol of Islamic rejectionism. This rejectionism is achieved through isolation</i> 

Muslims all over the world withhold legitimacy from the Muslim nation-state. Muslim states respond by using the mithridatism of sharia – take a bit of poison every day for immunity from actual poisoning – only to discover that the clergy continually posits a more stringent sharia whose enforcement is not possible without theocratic rule. The Islamic state describes a familiar trajectory of rejectionism till it becomes internally secure under direct clerical rule, as in the case of Mullah Umar’s Sunni caliphate of Afghanistan and Imam Khomeini’s Shia imamate of Iran.

<b>Isolation, indoctrination, rejectionism: </b>The madrassa and the mosque act as nurseries of Islamic rejectionism. The mosque is the place of employment of the graduate of a seminary. The seminary socially insulates its acolytes through its dars nizami syllabus, ensuring that its graduates can only be employed in a mosque. (This is at the root of the proliferation of mosques in Pakistan.) The residential madrassa is the locus of three functions: isolation, indoctrination and rejection. The burden of its message to society is an exhortation to vigilantism based on the Quranic concept of amr (encourage good) and nahi (oppose wrong).

In a Muslim state, a majority of the population possesses a rejectionist mind – rejection of ‘the incompletely Islamic state’. This is not a negative trait; it is an honest expression of allegiance to the utopia of the sharia. The clerical message about the backsliding of the state targets internal non-enforcement of literalist edicts. It also attacks foreign policy whose avoidance of international isolation is interpreted as compromise of national honour. Honour-based societies such as Pakistan focus on foreign policy as a device of repossession of lost honour. In this sense, Islam becomes an instrument of re-tribalisation.

<b>Madrassa as centre of cult following:</b> Lal Masjid encapsulates the Muslim mind. The TV channels in Pakistan have woken up to the parallels Lal Masjid has in other parts of the world, but they still deliberately ignore the cultic aspects of these comparisons. Not all the comparisons have been correctly defined. For instance, comparisons with the Chechen attacks on a school in Beslan in Russia (2004) and a Moscow theatre (2005) do not take into account the charisma of Abdul Aziz. However the reference to 1979 Makka revolt by a rebel preacher Juhaima was more to the point because of the central figure in it of Imam Mehdi pretender. Reference to the siege of Golden Temple after the Bhindranwale revolt (1984) in India is also an acceptable analogy.

Why did the TV channels avoid reference to the fact that Juhaima had put up his nephew Qahtani as the promised Mehdi? One can only say that there is a reluctance to compare cultism with the Lal Masjid phenomenon. Reference was indeed made to the 300 ‘prophetic’ dream visions of Maulana Abdul Aziz in the Urdu press, but the theme was not pursued further. Was this non-reference meant to avoid comparison with religious cults in the West that manifested the same syndrome of isolation-indoctrination-rejection as the Islamabad seminary?

<b>Divine inspiration and cult figures:</b> If Maulana Abdul Aziz had received his orders directly from Allah, and had a cult following he himself described as ready to commit suicide for him, David Koresh and his suicide squad of devotees at Waco, Texas (1993) also clashed with state troops because ‘messages from God’ did not allow surrender. His cult followers accepted suicide the same way as the cult followers of California’s Jim Jones in British Guiana (1978). The Swiss group suicide (1994) was also ordained by a divine message. The fanaticism of the male and female acolytes of Maulana Abdul Aziz would have resulted in mass suicide had he not himself abandoned them by fleeing.

The Lal Masjid founder Maulana Abdullah was killed in 1998 at the height of the sectarian war unleashed by Deobandi madrassas in 1986 after the issuance of apostatisation fatwas. Abdullah was a graduate of Jamia Banuria like Maulana Masood Azhar of Jaish Muhammad whose trained terrorists are now found entrenched within Lal Masjid together with Maulana Abdur Rashid Ghazi. Ghazi echoed his father’s sectarian worldview when he told a TV channel that the government might have brought out Shia warriors against his besieged acolytes.

The Aziz-Rashid duo began with a clear anti-Shia intent when they abducted a Shia lady in Islamabad after accusing her of running a brothel. Only the BBC website recorded the charge made by the lady that, while they were dragging her family out, the Lal Masjid vigilantes had referred to the Shia sect as a ‘sect of prostitutes’. The duo had climbed to the top of the already dominant position of the Deobandi seminaries in Islamabad by establishing contacts with the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

<b>Musharraf and proliferation of madrassas: </b>The madrassas in Pakistan have proliferated after 9/11 and under Musharraf. This makes clear the intent of the new religious seminary in Pakistan. In the old radical madrassas ready to face America and its allies, induction of acolytes has doubled, as was shown by admissions at Jamia Banuria in 2002. In Islamabad too, the proliferation of madrassas has taken place under Musharraf after 2001, not under General Zia after 1979.

Today, there are 88 seminaries in Islamabad imparting religious education to more than 16,000 students. It is not for nothing that every second male in Islamabad keeps a jihadi beard and looks scary to foreigners. Research has revealed that the number of students of the Deobandi seminaries, including Jamia Hafsa and Jamia Faridia, doubled during the last one year. The students to these seminaries – many of them residential – have flocked from all parts of the NWFP and the tribal areas.

<b>Madrassa dominance of Islamabad:</b> The breakdown of madrassas in Islamabad is as follows: Deobandi (5,400 students); Barelvi (3,000 students in 46 seminaries), Ahle-Hadith (200 students in two seminaries); Shia (700 students in eight seminaries) and Jamaat-e-Islami-led Rabita al-Madaris (1,500 students in 18 seminaries). According to a newspaper investigative report, ‘the present number of 10,700 seminarians in the federal capital is almost equal to the combined strength of the seminary students from Balochistan (6,374 students) and Azad Jammu and Kashmir (2,835 students)’.

Who has tried to change the character of Islamabad through a proliferation of extremist seminaries? One could quickly claim that President Musharraf could not have been involved in this proliferation because of his exhortations against extremism. But that would be incorrect: During the rule of General Zia (from July 1977 to August 1988), 7 new seminaries were established in the federal capital; under President Musharraf, the number went up to 14!

Mithridatism will not work. The commander of the Rangers besieging the Lal Masjid madrassa had a flowing beard just like the ones sported by Maulana Abdul Aziz and Abdur Rashid. Almost all the troops brought out to confront the terrorists inside Jamia Hafsa were bearded and looked more like the Taliban than Pakistan army soldiers. Pakistan is firmly set on the trajectory beyond all dreams of democracy as the panacea for collective derailments.

<b>Utopias of rejectionism:</b> At the end of the parabola of Islamic reform is the theocratic state, ruled and secured against de-legitimisation by the clergy through punishment of dissent with death on the basis of the doctrine of fasad fil ard (turmoil on earth). But after the establishment of theocracy as the acme of state evolution, comes the international assault. The Sunni caliphate of Afghanistan was invaded under a chapter-seven UN Security Council resolution number 1373. It was found that the caliphate had endangered its Muslim neighbours before endangering the world. The same kind of international movement is developing against the imamate of Iran which also endangers its Muslim neighbours equally as it endangers the world.

The seminary is the symbol of Islamic rejectionism. This rejectionism is achieved through isolation which international investigators often condone as dars nizami, thinking that insulation of the acolyte has nothing to do with violent rejection of society and state. At the subconscious level, we are all waiting for the Sunni caliphate in Pakistan. We all know what will happen after that.
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[Naresh]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2007, 09:07 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2007, 09:07 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
I don't understand, why they insult dogs?
Why they have not kept them in morque? They are hiding head count.
[right][snapback]71122[/snapback][/right]
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<b>Mudy Ji :</b>

I believe accrdoing to Islam the Dog is an unclean animal.


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2007, 09:07 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2007, 09:07 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Why they have not kept them in morque? They are hiding head count.
[right][snapback]71122[/snapback][/right]
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I am sure you must have read my earlier posts wherein there has been a Request for 800 further Shrouds-Coffins in addition to the 300 supplied earlier.

I would put the Death Toll between 1,000 and 1,500 but will not be surlrised if it is much Higher.

However the Pakistani Butcherraf and his fellow Kassais will Declare the "Official Death Count" to be between 100 and 200.

Be assured that in due course of time the real death toll will come out of the woodwork.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Muslim clerics in India back Mush's action</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But, on the military operation, Ilyas said, "There was no need to wage an armed struggle against the government". <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ya, if this happen in India, First thing they will do is start riots, kill and burn some Hindu shops and house. Here they are supporting their pan-islamic leader. One should check whether he gets paid by Mushy.
DId they came out with same statements against Godhra, ofcourse not.

[Guest]

http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat5.htm
<b>CNN team denied entry to Lal Masjid</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->“We are not a banana republic. If we can give access, we can also deny the same when necessary,” he remarked.

A CNN spokesperson, on the other hand, said: “The actions by the Pakistan government are regrettable. We remain committed to reporting from Pakistan.”<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat2.htm
<b>Untraced students’ parents face anguish</b>

[Guest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6896881.stm

<b>Peacekeeper 'smuggled Congo gold' </b>

<b>A United Nations inquiry has confirmed that a Pakistani peacekeeper in the Democratic Republic of Congo was involved in smuggling gold.
A Pakistani contingent was accused of selling gold and guns between 2005 and 2006 to Congolese militia groups they were meant to disarm. </b> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Gulbuddin Hekmatyar urges Islamist revolt in Pakistan </b>

KABUL: An Afghan warlord on Thursday condemned the Pakistani army’s raid on Lal Masjid and called on Muslims there to revolt against the US-backed government, a spokesman said. Veteran Islamic fighter Gulbuddin Hekmatyar charged that President Pervez Musharraf “attacked the mosque to please [US President George W] Bush,” according to Hekmatyar’s spokesman Haroon Zarghon. “We strongly condemn the brutal killing of innocent students by the Pakistani army in Lal Masjid,” said the spokesman for Hekmatyar, the one-time leader of the anti-Soviet Hezb-i-Islami and a former prime minister. “Musharraf martyred the students to please Bush.” Zarghon said Muslims were now left with no choice but to fight the “infidel powers” and their puppet governments — like Musharraf’s.<b> “Today all Muslims around the world are oppressed by infidels — at the top the US. The Islamic movements started by Muslims around the world will result in real Islamic governments in Palestine, in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.”.” He said, “This is an imposed crusade war by Bush and his allies, but gone are the days they have dreamt of. Muslims will now stand united for their rights.” </b>Zarghon said Hezb-i-Islami wishes a “<b>Pakistani Muslim nation’s revolt against the Musharraf regime” but said Hekmatyar’s faction had no intention of getting involved militarily. “We voice only our political support to them,”</b> he said. “We already have a mission to finish in Afghanistan. Our country is invaded and there are 50,000 foreign troops here. We cannot extend any military support.” Meanwhile, Taliban spokesman Yousuf Ahmadi declined to give an official reaction to the crisis in Islamabad. He said the Taliban had no interest in interfering in other countries’ affairs. “We cannot extend our war experience physically to them by training them, but they can copy our tactics of suicide attacks and roadside bomb attacks — just as we did from Iraq.” afp
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