Sanskrit - 2

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Jul 16 2008, 10:36 AM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Jul 16 2008, 10:36 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is an interesting way of looking at texts. I am just giving the link because I cannot post the pictures here appropriatey
shabda-megha
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That is indeed nice. It always helps to somehow display or graph salient features of a text. Information theoretic approaches are also useful in this regard.

The mystery text must be a vaisheShika text.

[Husky]

Nice, I think I like the indigenous occurrence of the sounds of z and f. I always did like those sounds in European languages (though we don't have them in Tamizh as far as I can tell...)
By the way, sorry for leading you off in the wrong direction Shambhu.
And now for my question: what language is that word Zamindar from?

On the matter of 'm' at the end of the words Samskritam and Mahabharatam and the 'h' sound, I asked my dad explicitly.
For what it's worth, from what he knew:
- He said it's the normal 'm' sound. Then I asked him why it sounded like Grandmother used to say Mahabharaton/Mahabharatau (nasal) sometimes. He said they all did that when they pronounce things in Tamizh, just like she would sometimes say 'Sangara' or even nasal 'Sangaron' (Tamizh pronunciation, although Shankara(n) is too actually) when speaking Tamizh but say it as Shankara when reciting shlokas or telling stories.
- what my ears seemed to hear: he pronounced it as Purushaha and Shantihi Shantihi Shantihi but said that last can also sometimes turn out as Shanti-hshanti-hshantihi when pronounced as if the words are glued together. I don't know how to transliterate that now...

[Hauma Hamiddha]

-Zamin is from Persian, meaning earth land.
-the nominative (i.e. prathama) form of a napuMsaka (neuter) noun in Sanskrit is declined with a terminal 'm' if it ends in a in its base form: e.g. phala->phalam.

-Tamil has its own noun endings which are not related to Sanskrit case endings but tend to add a 'n' sound to extend the base 'a' ending. For respect 'r' may be used instead or 'l' for plural and honorific.

-As AK explained the visarga in sanskrit 'aH' has a complex behavior. If it is internal then it is merely articulated as a curt unvoiced stop. It it is preceding a 'p' then it acquired the 'f' sound. e.g. yaH pantha= pronounced yaf-pantha. If it is preceding a 'kSh' then it is fully voiced. e.g. in namaH kShtR^ibhaH-> nam'aHa' kShtR^ibhaH. If it is next to a daNDa, i.e. terminal visarga then it is similarly voiced. The most subtle is the visarga known as jihvAmUlIya which occurs before 'k' or 'kh'. It is uttered as a brisk stop with a faint echo created by the based of the tongue articulating with the soft palate.

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Jul 19 2008, 11:03 PM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Jul 19 2008, 11:03 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->-Zamin is from Persian, meaning earth land.
-the nominative (i.e. prathama) form of a napuMsaka (neuter) noun in Sanskrit is declined with a terminal 'm' if it ends in a in its base form: e.g. phala->phalam.

-Tamil has its own noun endings which are not related to Sanskrit case endings but tend to add a 'n' sound to extend the base 'a' ending. For respect 'r' may be used instead or 'l' for plural and honorific.

-As AK explained the visarga in sanskrit 'aH' has a complex behavior. If it is internal then it is merely articulated as a curt unvoiced stop. It it is preceding a 'p' then it acquired the 'f' sound. e.g. yaH pantha= pronounced yaf-pantha. If it is preceding a 'kSh' then it is fully voiced. e.g. in namaH kShtR^ibhaH-> nam'aHa' kShtR^ibhaH. If it is next to a daNDa, i.e. terminal visarga then it is similarly voiced. The most subtle is the visarga known as jihvAmUlIya which occurs before 'k' or 'kh'. It is uttered as a brisk stop with a faint echo created by the based of the tongue articulating with the soft palate.
[right][snapback]84588[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Cheers. (The last 3 lines may be a bit too technical for me to attempt, but the important thing is that other Hindus who read will understand and learn from it.)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->napuMsaka (neuter)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So it's a P. I've been pronouncing it with a 'b' all this time as "nabumsaka".... (Hard to guess at words when I've not seen them written down.) Then again, I've probably been saying pulingam and sthreelingam wrong too.... Sigh. Never mind me.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->yaf-pantha<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hear things like "yav-pathe" and similar in shlokas (something like a v for the 'H' in there).... but I'll keep my ears peeled for the 'f'.

[Shambhu]

Sanskrit magazine by College Park students:
http://www.speaksanskrit.org/vishvavani/index.shtml

(Warning: Not everyone in College Park, MD, as nice as the students involved in the above. Some people are Left-loving and worship Romila Thapar).

[Bodhi]

THE SOUND PATTERN of SANSKRIT IN ASIA by Frits Staal

[Guest]

A marathon lexicography work<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->t has been described as one of the world’s biggest lexicography work having commenced in 1948 and expected to be completed in another 50 years from now.

The Sanskrit dictionary project undertaken by the Deccan College of Pune has already seen three generations of lexicographers at work and many more to go.

The only other comparison to such a gigantic project in the field of lexicography is the work undertaken by the Oxford English dictionary which sometime ago brought out a 20 volume dictionary in English.

But the Sanskrit dictionary project is much different with a scriptorium of one crore words — from the Rig Veda to texts written until 1800 AD — to be studied and their etymological meanings provided. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Shambhu]

There is also another aspect from which India can learn a great deal from Israel and it is its language. In 1948, Israel regained part of it Holy land and Israelis, who had been scattered all over the world, came back to live in Israel. There was one problem though: they all spoke different languages and no tongue unified them except Yiddish, a b@st@rd language spoken by the Jews of Eastern Europe. So the state of Israel set its scholars to revive Hebrew, Israel's ancient language, which had fallen in decrepitude, so that today everybody speaks Hebrew and it has unified Israel like nothing else. India should invite some of these linguists and they should sit down with Sanskrit scholars and devise a way of simplifying and modernizing Sanskrit, which is the mother of all European tongues, a language so subtle and rich that it will energize and revitalize the whole Indian culture.
http://www.francoisgautier.com/Written%20M...dia-israel.html

[Bodhi]

so sweet the expressions of the kAshmIraka alaMkAraka-s ...

one sample with a bad translation:

mA yAhItya apama~NgalaM vraja kila snehena shUnyaM
vachastiShTheti prabhutA yathA-ruchi-kuruShvaiShApyudAsInatA...

'Don't Go', (if I said), would be inauspicious; 'Go' would be cold-hearted; 'Stay' would be commanding you; 'Go if you please' would border on indifference; ('Without You I shall Die' were better left unsaid; Then you yourself teach me, Love, How I should address when you rise to leave -- a newly-wed asks her husband.)

(vipralambha-shR^ingAra-paddyati : dayita-gamana-paddyati)

[Bodhi]

sudharmA, the only online saMskR^ita daily: http://sudharma.epapertoday.com/

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A marathon lexicography work

S. Rajendran  (The Hindu, 11 Aug. 2008)

Scriptorium of one crore Sanskrit words includes those from Rig Veda

BANGALORE: It has been described as one of the world's biggest lexicography work having commenced in 1948 and expected to be completed in another 50 years from now.

The Sanskrit dictionary project undertaken by the Deccan College of Pune has already seen three generations of lexicographers at work and many more to go.

The only other comparison to such a gigantic project in the field of lexicography is the work undertaken by the Oxford English dictionary which sometime ago brought out a 20 volume dictionary in English.

But the Sanskrit dictionary project is much different with a scriptorium of one crore words — from the Rig Veda to texts written until 1800 AD — to be studied and their etymological meanings provided.

While it was originally contemplated to bring out the dictionary in 20 volumes, the scriptorium utilised so far is expected to result in the publication of 50 volumes.

Unlike conventional dictionaries which deal with word meanings as static, one-item entries, this dictionary adopts a historical approach, a special feature in the field of lexicography.

Budget grant

Part three of the eighth volume of the dictionary is scheduled to be released on August 17, the foundation day of the Deccan College, founded in 1821.

Incidentally, the Deccan College is the third oldest educational institution in the country and was granted the status of an autonomous deemed university in 1994. Given the nature of its work, Union Finance Minister P. Chidambaram in the last budget provided a grant of Rs. 5 crore for the institution.

The prestigious project which has drawn the attention of eminent scholars from across the world (particularly Germany and Russia) was initiated by S.M. Katre, the first Director of the Deccan College. Sabyasachi Bhattacharya, Chairman, Indian Council of Historical Research, will officially release part three of the eighth volume and also deliver a lecture on "Indian Civilisation."

Covers 65 fields

K. Paddayya, Director of the Deccan College and V.P. Bhatta, an eminent Sanskrit scholar and general editor of the dictionary project told The Hindu that only around 10 per cent of the project has been completed with the first 26 years (1948 to 1976) having been spent in scanning over 1,500 Sanskrit texts resulting in the identification of around one crore words.

"The larger purpose of the project, apart from conveying to the people on how the meanings of some Sanskrit words changed with history, is to highlight the ancient Indian knowledge encompassing nearly 65 fields — like science, music, geography, history, religion, astronomy and architecture.

"While planning this project, Katre clearly visualised that the scope of the dictionary would go much beyond the Sanskrit-Woerterbuch (dictionary in German) prepared between 1852 and 1875 by Otto Von Boehtlingk and Rudolph Roth, which was published in seven volumes from St. Petersburg (Russia)."

Prof. Paddayya and Prof. Bhatta said "it is gratifying to note that the published volumes of the dictionary have received excellent response from Sanskrit scholars both in India and outside the country.

Worldwide attention

The famous Indologist, A.L.Basham had said: "The Poona Sanskrit dictionary, which, when completed, will probably be the greatest work of lexicography the world has seen. And true to this observation, the work done so far has already drawn attention worldwide."

First volume

The first volume of the dictionary titled "an encyclopaedic dictionary of Sanskrit on historical principles" was published in 1976 under the general editorship of A.M. Ghatge and at least one part of a volume has been released every two to three years.

With the recent advancement in information technology, the Deccan College has also commenced computerisation of the dictionary.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/11/stories/...192000.htm



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[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Samskrita Bharati

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#5, 7 th street, Dr.R.K.Road, Mylapore, Chennai 600 004 Ph No 28472632 and 39<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bharatvarsh]

Is shakrara for sugar in Sanskrit a borrowal from Persian shkra or is cognate with it (arabicized into sukkar in arabic)?

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Sep 4 2008, 08:35 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 4 2008, 08:35 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is shakrara for sugar in Sanskrit a borrowal from Persian shkra or is cognate with it (arabicized into sukkar in arabic)?
[right][snapback]87481[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->There are better dictionaries out there for etymologies, but the following happens to state the same as what I recall from book sources, so:
http://www.answers.com/sugar as at 3/4 Sept 2008
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[Middle English sugre, from Old French sukere, from Medieval Latin succārum, from Old Italian zucchero, from Arabic sukkar, from Persian shakar, from Sanskrit śarkarā, grit, ground sugar.]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bodhi]

isn't this a strikingly beautiful description!

tataH shuklAmbara-dharaH shuklayaj~nopavItavAn
shuklakeshaH sitashmashruH shuklamAlyAnulepanaH
ra~NgamadhyAn tadAchAryaH saputraH pravivesha ha
nabho jaladharairhInAn sA~NgAraka ivAMshumAn

then clad in white, wearing a white sacred-thread,
white haired, donning a garland of white flowers and besmeared with white (sandalwood) paste,
entered AchArya ra~NgabhUmi with his son
dazzling like a burning sun upon the face of a clear cloudless sky

(context: droNa leading the princes to ra~NgabhUmi for display of skills after graduation)

[Shambhu]

<b>Sanskrit made easy</b>
By Dr. Dhanakar Thakur, MBBS, MD (Gen. Med), DCH Shyamali

Sanskrit can be made simple by leaving Dwivachan in Shabdrupas and using only three tenses for dhaturupas, not using difficult Sandhis, and also leaving out some of the Shabdrupas not commonly used and using plural (for numbers 2 and above) and such Sanskrit can be the National language which can be learnt to speak by any Indian in five days time.

In the midst of the Independence Day and the political drama in Jharkhand the Sanskrit Divas (August 16) was celebrated by the Antarrarshtriya Maithili Parishad (AMP), etc. and in one of such programme at Ranchi it was shown by small kids that they can understand and speak in Sanskrit without any difficulty. The programme unique of its kind was conducted for 90 minutes in Sanskrit, enjoyed by over 60 persons where almost all speakers spoke in Sanskrit.

The beauty of Sanskrit remains in its <b>recall</b> after a long period—when one of the guests there came from Saharsa (where legendary Shankaracharya had debate with Mandan Bharati at Mahishi village) said that Sanskrit encyclopaedia, Amarkosha is unique, I could recall the verses from that book read 44 years back. Even one 5-year old Child Arnav surprised the audience with Gita’s VIII Chapter chanting by memory.

The president of the function Dr. Guneshawar Jha informed that the Deccan College, Pune is publishing third volume of the 10 million words extracted from Vedas which will be the biggest lexicographic work done anywhere as per Indologist, A.L. Basham.

Swami Madhvananada of Chinmay Mission, the chief guest said that Sanskrit has 54 letters and hence, in it the words spoken is written as it is while English being of 26 letters is neither written nor spoken as per alphabets.

There were persons like Sri Swadhin Mukherjee, ex-president, MECON Executive Association who regretted that they could not speak Sanskrit like their father and grandfathers but they would learn it.

But Sanskrit needs simplification unless done that our ancient treasure may not find glory and vast treasure of knowldge of medicine in the books like Charak and Shushruta and in many other sciences will remain unused.

http://sarvesamachar.com/click_frameset.ph...256%26page%3D13

[ramana]

Thanks to SwamyG,

http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/sanskrit/tutor.html

Online Sanskrit tutor from IIT Chennai.

One can download the 12 lessons to get a headstart.

[Bharatvarsh]

I want to know, has anyone so far undertaken the task of translating Greek/Roman classics into Sanskrit, for example Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Metamorphoses, Republic, Meditations etc ?

I think these should be translated not just into Sanskrit but all the major Indian languages.

It is indeed shameful that many Hindus think (even some so called "Hindutva" ones) that xtians brought "civilization" to Europe when infact the above literature shows that they did the opposite, also disgusting that Jesus is called a "yogi" by many Hindu luminaries when in fact the great Marcus Aurelius would any day come more closer to being a yogi than Jesus as we know him could.

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Sep 23 2008, 08:19 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 23 2008, 08:19 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I want to know, has anyone so far undertaken the task of translating Greek/Roman classics into Sanskrit, for example Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Metamorphoses, Republic, Meditations etc ?
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bhojadeva paramAra commissioned the translation of Iliad and Odyssey into saMskR^ita as mentioned in his apocryphal biography. He was probably also the one who encouraged a better grasp and strategic study of islam. He also set out to teach saMskR^ita to every citizen of his kingdom of the first three varNa-s, and spread the learning of prAkR^ita for the fourth one (says bhaviShyapurANa). So much that even criminals and thieves would submit their defenses, and worker class their petitions, in these polished languages.

[Hauma Hamiddha]

Bharatvarsh- May you live a hundred years!

In the 1800s several mahArAShTrian shAstrI's engaged in translating different works into Sanskrit.
A British parliamentary dispatch I have states that Nana Shastry Apte translated Euclid into Sanskrit. I have no detailed information of what other works they translated. The same dispatch states that they translated some historical works from english into Sanskrit.