k.ram,
I still think we are so-called youth of India, practically very modernized in good way. I think, he is describing people very close to him, his own.
I remember watching those street cleaning women smoking bidi, upper class hukka, and dying from thara. Whats new?
Sonia Singh NDTV's Managing editor of NDTV is wife of RPN Singh prominent member of Rahul Gandhi's babalog brigade and UPA Mantri.
<img src='http://static.indianexpress.com/m-images/2009-06-03/M_Id_84716_congress.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/lok-sabh...-for-up/470377/
India is also casting of dhimmitude using modernity. Most of those customs and morlas were imposed during the double dhimmi period of Islmaic conquest and Victorian era British colonialism. Lets not confuse the issues.
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jun 4 2009, 12:11 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jun 4 2009, 12:11 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->India is also casting of dhimmitude using modernity. Most of those customs and morlas were imposed during the double dhimmi period of Islmaic conquest and Victorian era British colonialism. Lets not confuse the issues.
[right][snapback]98278[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yes, they should visit Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh , where women wear Sari without blouse. Please they are not topless babes. or bare back cholies of Rajasthan
. That is only surviving Indian dress.
<b>Politics of ideology</b>
The Age debate
<b>BJP is a political expression of RSS</b>
June.4 : The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is not a conventional political party. It is a political expression of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) to achieve its vision of a strong, resurgent India, and that is why it is different. The RSS does not micro-manage the BJP, but the BJP ideology has to clearly reflect the RSS thought. The BJP draws its sustenance from the monumental nation-building activities of the Sangh family. Remove this, and the BJP would become a carcass.
Is there a need for another Congress carbon copy? All the other parties are simply that. The BJP is the ultimate choice of the patriotic, intelligent, Indian because it has the RSS stamp. Can it compete with others on cynical appeasement and divisive political bargain and still claim the loyalty of its core constituency? The time has come for the BJP to evolve a new economic deal for the majority community.
The BJPâs RSS bond was settled in 1980 when the party was formed as a consequence of the "dual membership" controversy in the Janata Party. The BJP grew as the largest party in the 90s, in the wake of the Ram Janmabhumi movement, when it was seen closest to its ideological moorings.
The BJP could emerge as an ideological pole because its approach is essentially an alternative worldview, an authentic and honest throwback to the values, ideals and dreams of the freedom fighters who moulded the renascent nationalist conscience of India.
The BJP became the real champion of this post-Independence pride as the Congress degenerated into a corrupt, self-serving and stale instrument for perpetuating the dynastic ambitions of a family. The Congress is, however, smart. It has of late adopted many of the popular slogans of the BJP, like the idea of one nation-one people, national citizenship card, river-linking mission, free market economics, rechristened the 1990 Antyodaya as National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS), and even a stringent law to combat terrorism. The BJP is original and innovative, but it lacks conviction. It has become a victim of hostile propaganda.
The BJP is indebted to the RSS not only for its leadership and wide network but also for its attractive, modern, philosophy which earned it millions of adherents.
It is this constituency which the BJP has to reassure and cultivate. Its vote share is falling because it has not been able to connect to this segment. Development and good governance are the primary duty of any party. It cannot become a substitute for an inspirational ideological theme.
R. Balashankar is the editor of Organiser
***
<b>Politics is not RSSâ core competence</b>
There is no doubt that the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) can survive without the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) micro-management.
Indeed, free of the need to refer even relatively routine decisions â such as the choice of deputy leaders in the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha â to the proverbial elders in Nagpur, the BJP would be able to function with greater political pragmatism.
To some degree, the RSS leadership recognises this. Its chief, the down-to-earth Mohan Bhagwat, sees the RSS as only one of many stakeholders in the BJP, realising a national political party is multi-layered and has to address several constituencies, not just a small club of "parivar" organisations.
Earlier this week, Mr Bhagwat was in Delhi and made it clear that the RSS wanted no part in the day-to-day running of the party.
At various points Mr Bhagwat has suggested withdrawing the many RSS full-timers deputed to the party. He knows politics is not their core competence.
Unfortunately, others have resisted such moves in the RSS, those who have developed a collateral interest in control of the BJP and in access to political power and state governments. It is an open secret that many RSS seniors, sent to state units of the BJP or asked to interact with the central leadership, have been corrupted and become factional players.
BJP politicians who have resisted this â in Gujarat and Rajasthan, for example â have been declared heretics and subjected to vicious in-house propaganda.
The RSS was meant to act as the arbiter, it has become a participant; the third umpire has run into the field and pronounced himself 12th man.
The degree of RSS influence on the BJP is atypical and not representative of the 29 years of party history.
Atal Bihari Vajpayeeâs retirement, Lal Krishan Advaniâs declining authority and the BJPâs inability to implement a succession plan created a gap. The RSS rushed in to fill it. This was meant to be a short-term holding operation, but certain people developed a taste for party ownership by proxy.
The RSS has to decide whether it wants to shape the politics of India or shape the politics of the BJP. If its answer is the former, it must gracefully withdraw, decline to select the BJPâs future leadership and instead ask the party to choose a new president after a rigorous internal election.
The next generation of the BJP needs to be empowered by its voters, not by the RSS.
Ashok Malik is a Delhi-based political analyst
http://www.asianage.com/presentation/leftn...f-ideology.aspx
Ultimately, the BJPâs future and, for that matter, the course of Indian politics may well be shaped by the partyâs inclination and ability to change with the times. With little prospects in the near future of replacing the Congress as the single dominant party, the BJP is faced with the difficult task of swallowing its pride and give up its fantasy of a bipolar duel. Instead, the party stands a far better chance of developing its regional assets which will undoubtedly keep the BJP in play in national politics. The failure to come to terms with these contemporary realities, however harsh, could mean further marginalisation and decline of the party.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/180606/Leading...m-the-edge.html
^^^^ Asian Age article ---
The above articles and promotion of such line of thought is a conspiracy. RSS and the rest of the sangh parivar cannot take BJP to power. We have seen in this election a total and unequivocal support of RSS. They are trying to bind the entire sangh parivaar in a box so that the perception will never change even if the parivaar tries to change. We need to watch for that kind of drivel.
BJP has to grow beyond RSS and RSS cadre should understand that their brand of Hindutva can only bring about less than 10% of India's votes. This core base is not increasing and we all know that from the last two elections.
BJP needs to go beyond this and has to strategize a path where it can win the election by cheating the p-sec crowd but do what it wanted to do after winning. If it does strategize and implement, the fundamental thing that is needed is full support of sangh parivaar. The cadre of sangh parivaar is ideological but does not seem to be tactical. This understanding is what is required between BJP and the rest of Sangh.
Let me give a scenario - kerala.
Most of the BJP's strenght is RSS and RSS only. RSS is very strong is defending the hindu way of life from the onslaught of evangelicals and the left.
However, to win Kerala with no alliances, it has to come up with such a social engineering where it can include some section of Christians. Even after inclusion, no one will believe unless it fakes some p-sec ism. They have to go overboard and declare some Thomas as CM candidate. Now it can fish the disgruntled fellows and poach other parties.
Now how many RSS cadre will understand this behavior? Unless the Sangh gets into this kind of dirty biz, we will just see the foreign rule.
They cannot plan of being in power with an illusion of repeating 100% seat victories in only states that they are strong and beg for alliances in rest of the country. That era is over and they have to move on if they dream of rule by the majority.
Since the sangh parivaar (the heart of hindu strategy ) is clearly lacking practical approach to the wounded civilization India is now seeing a clear foreign rule for the first time after British left India.
<b>Dreaming about Hindu unity and expanding the core votes beyond 15% is a dream unachievable because the enemy has the machinery (money, media and education) to outdo the slow and idealistic response. </b>
Another scenario :
----------------------
The Delhi-Gurgaon-Chandigarh and beyond belt (BPO belt) ( I honestly have no offense to folks from this area - please do not misunderstand me) now consists of girls and boys where less than 25% are virgins in the age group of 13 and above. Having pre-maritial sex at the time +2 in education is rampant. They are fed with stories from CNN-IBN etc. Now with the kind of Sangh parivaar's efforts, tell me how you can even bring them to their line of thinking. On top of that the enemy is clever to create ram senas and tell them they are all BJP. In most of our movies, villians will have big bindis and tilaks. The villians do havans. The heros/heroines wear beachwear. Watch any TV reality shows the story repeats again.
RSS trying to revive the culture when it is going down is different from trying when it is gone. They need to strategize a practical way where all the pink-chaddis vote for BJP inspite of they being pinkies.
Do not ever imagine to win election by saying this is only feature of few metros. 25% of LS is urban India.<b> Hence the articles that bind sang parivaar and BJP in a box is inline to not allow BJP to think out of box. It is a vicious agenda.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jun 4 2009, 12:11 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jun 4 2009, 12:11 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->India is also casting of dhimmitude using modernity. Most of those customs and morlas were imposed during the double dhimmi period of Islmaic conquest and Victorian era British colonialism. Lets not confuse the issues.
[right][snapback]98278[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly
Muppalla gaaru:
As I say BJP needs to look at organizations other than RSS and Hindus need to look at organizations other than RSS and/or BJP. So what are our options. Will sending money help? Anything else that we can do?
Ramana gaaru: You can pass my email id to Raja Ram (from BRF), I will see if I can arrange some few rupees here and there. Even rs1000 here and there to cover pamphlet printing or idli-vadai-coffee for meetings.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swamy G+Jun 3 2009, 07:04 PM-->QUOTE(Swamy G @ Jun 3 2009, 07:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muppalla gaaru:
As I say BJP needs to look at organizations other than RSS and Hindus need to look at organizations other than RSS and/or BJP. So what are our options. Will sending money help? Anything else that we can do?
[right][snapback]98291[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am attending the OFBJP meet on June 20th for a chintan baitak. I will let you know what we can think/do. If you are living in US sending money to Political Orgs for political activities could be illegal. You can always send for charity.
There are several hindu seva organizations. The problem is only not having/able to coordiante to a political portion. BJP is the only option in that angle and having another one is not feasible as they will even split up the meagre votes. It is better to coordinate and help unite the folks towards BJP.
Swamy G,
What do u think about Siva Kumar(movie actor) to lead the BJP from the front in TN? He is a clean guy and a good orator.
Muppalla,
Ask the BJP to launch a 24 hrs news channel in English & Hindi. Ask them to buy out newspapers like Indian Express , Deccan Chronicle.
Muppalla
Couple of questions for the stalwarts
Where does ABVP fit in the scheme of things for BJP? ABVP should be more vocal in campuses, holding debates on crucial issuesOr are they fit only for goondagardhi and drinking Haywards 5000 and ogle at women?
Why can't BJP start their own publicity arm, distribution outlets in every community - handouts to blogs to SMSs (Having a poorly maintained website does not cut it)
Why can't they have monthly meetings in every community - if not BJP, then sangh associated outfits. Start using temples as meeting places. Hindus do not have a place to meet anywhere as government by design stops temples being used for such things (whereas it is ok for churches and mosques)
What is their strategy in delivering the message? Our message was never the problem. The problem was always the mode, content and the delivery. What is being done or will be done to rectify it.
Are they planning to tie up with any think tanks? If so, which ones and why? If not, why not?
What is being done to get in between two extremes - Continue wearing khaki chaddis OR discard hindutva for "liberal hinduism" (Since congress owns secular hinduism). Wtf!
Why can't they (BJP + RSS) embrace temple protection movements and ingratiate with local communities? Have one member/karyakartha for every temple in the country or cluster of temples in an area. Continue to log/document what's being done to the temples.
Why can't they be more vocal about Hindus' plight in other countries, and and in India itself? Don't scream bloody murder about Conversions (counter it quietly), but scream out loud about the victims. We are after all in the human rights and victimized world.
Who is stopping them from making documentaries and distributing freely over the net? Why can't they do that?
Why can't they embrace goraksha movement - if there is none, start one.
The bottomline is they need to organize, involve communities (Hindus) and start a movement. Whether they like it or not, they are never going to get Mullah and Missionary vote. Let "secular parties" compete for that and thin that vote out. We may not see complete hindu unity, but creating hindu brother hood and a sense of shared destiny is not impossible.
>>>If you are living in US sending money to Political Orgs for political activities could be illegal. You can always send for charity.
Muppalla gaaru I am not a US citizen (yet - I don't want to become, but wifey wants to; you know who will win ultimately), I think that law binds only for US Citizens if I am correct. The citizens can not interfere, but the Government can :-) Anyz I was not planning to send a check. I have relatives in India - who can do the work for me :-)
I see your point of vote splitting if there are other political parties. Then the way to go is Hindu lobbying groups within India :-) So it should not matter if it is BJP or Congress, the Hindu groups should be strong enough to make noises in the media, grab attention and do the needful.
Aryan: I do not know much about him. You are talking about Sivakumar the dad of the current actor Surya, am I right? I know Sivakumar opposed Surya's marriage to Jyothika (muslim - Khusboo's sister). So potentially there is material out there. They are from Coimbatore area - I assume he is a Gounder. IIRC Sivakumar's real name is Palaniappan Gounder (??).
Sounds like a nice idea, if he can rope in his son - Surya too (for campaigning).
In movies, for Krishna's role it has to be NTR; and for Murugan's role it has to be Sivakumar. Sivakumar has donned the role of Murugan in a movie very well.
In 2014, BJP has to win at least 10 seats in TN - that is how I see it. That is 25% of the seats and we have 5 years to do the work. So probably we have to aim for 15 seats to reach 10 seats. Else TN is doomed, it will go the NE way.
06-04-2009, 08:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2009, 09:07 PM by Husky.)
1. One of the comments at http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayAr...spx?id=612
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The US has absolutely no interest in seeing an end to the problem in Afghanistan or Pakistan. Their ultimate aim is to takeover these countries by creating anarchy there. This region along with India has abundant natural resources and can feed US businesses for generations to come. If Pakistan and Afghanistan break down, it won't be long before the various terror groups enter India and create havoc there, exactly what the US wants, to finally take over India as well. India is right now besieged with numerous problems like poverty, corruption, bureaucracy, Maoist terrorists, Islamic jihad, Christian evangelisation and the Hindus answer to it. If India has still not gone the way of Pakistan or Afghanistan it is only because we are more tolerant and peaceful by nature but if all hell breaks loose one day, God save us. Â
 anandÂ
 03 Jun 2009<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2.
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 3 2009, 09:19 PM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 3 2009, 09:19 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Going by Ravishji, who seems to have a good finger on the pulse of the nation esp. the youth, the country seems to have voted overwhelmingly in favor of 3Bs - Bars, Bras and Brothels.[right][snapback]98271[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Come on. You can't seriously be lending credence to ravish.
I agree with Mudy:
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jun 3 2009, 10:20 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jun 3 2009, 10:20 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think, he is describing people very close to him, his own.[right][snapback]98273[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To ravish, all he is capable of is imagining Hindus behaving depraved and asumming they're the villains, and he's also a blind defender of christoislamism. I recall - and IF threads document this, so don't take my word for it - that when Hindus were falsely accused of "Hindu Terror", there was ravish ready to spit venom on them and pronounce them guilty from first to last without any evidence and moreover declare that all Hindus were now also part of a new trend of "Hindu terrorism" in order to equalize it with christoislamism. He was actually gloating - you know, reminiscent of the way he more recently gloated when he declared that Hindus had unanimously voted for his KKKangress and that people here were living in a fantasy.
When nothing came of it (other than tortured Hindus framed by the christian inquisition), ravish wasn't seen again for some time.
When Hindus were accused of having gang-raped an Orissan nun, there was ravish again, to spit on the Hindus once more and lecture everyone about the poor nun and how dare the Hindus rape her. Again, he did not wait for any evidence or consider how contrived the timing and alleged event. (And he never showed as much concern or indignation when FACTUAL rapes of nuns by christians occurred; naturally, I don't expect any concern from him when Hindus are attacked by christos, let's not ask of ravish what he's utterly incapable of). Even when the nun herself went back on her fiction and revealed that actually there had never been a gangrape (of course there hadn't been, it was a christoterrorist setup to divert public sympathy from Swami Lakshmanananda - a real murder victim of christoterrorism - onto a christo lie about a nun gangraped by Hindus) - even after her admission to not having been gangraped after all, and which should have put everything she ever said in doubt, ravish was not willing to back off or apologise for his obscene eagerness to indict Hindus. He merely slinked off in the way he usually does whenever his determination to see Hindus guilty is disproved. And then he waited in readiness to crawl out again some other time.
And <i>this</i> ravish supposedly has his finger on the Indian pulse? He can't even get facts - that are presented to him in <i>written</i> text - straight. For all his accusations, ravish is the one living in a fantasy world: a bleak night were Hindus are all wrong, guilty and uniformly misbehaving. To think of him as a source of any info is like putting complete trust in the gossipy National Whisperer. The what? Precisely. Sounds reliable does it?
[quote=Swamy G,Jun 4 2009, 08:01 PM]
Surya's wife Jyothika is a sister of Nagma (who is at present attending and preaching in evangelical meetings) and NOT of Kushboo as far as my knowledge goes. Jyotika is reportedly a muslim and it is rumoured that she underwent a nikkah ceremony with Surya in Mumbai.
Chandramoulee: Oops, my mistake. You are right. Jo is Nagma's sister.
kram, In student politics at Uty level in India, you need both intellectuals to debate and goondas to enusre they are allowed to debate. Thats the fact of life. <b>And the crucial thing for such intellctuals is they have to be ruthless and understand the use of force.</b> No wonder student politics is the nursery for state and national level politics.
Another thing to campaign is for winner to have 50% of the votes cast. This will reduce the vote dividers and frivilous "independents".
SwamyG, will do. Actually GSub had an implementable agenda in TN in one of the threads. When I talked to somepeople they said that in MLA elections the people will vote for those who can win and that means BJP doesn't have a chance. I disagreed that idea is tossing the towel before the fight.
06-05-2009, 12:06 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2009, 12:15 AM by ravish.)
Mr Husky,
On the rape of the nun the people of Orissa have already given their verdict through the election results. Bestowing adjectives on me will not bring the lost seats of the BJP in the Orissa Assembly. Supporters and party workers like you who live in a world of make believe and are in the habit of day dreaming have been one of the major causes for the unexpected result of the BJP in the national elections. If Virenji has been able to judge and comprehend the true situation there is no cause to get worked up. The calibre of intelligence of each individual differs as it is a gift of God to each of us
Rumours are circulating in B'glore that 43 BJP MLAs are joining the Congress shortly.
|
