Why cant India join hands with Isreal and set a GPS system for defence and civilian usage? All the resources are at hand. Both nations can design and make satellites, and Indian rockets can place them in space?
1986 report Threat and Assesment [?] projected India as leading in laser development. Why cant we use lasers for civilian purposes as well? For example all train engines are wequipped with this device and it will make head collisions impossible.
India is the leading country in High Altitude Medicine, why cant we use this expertise for civilian usage? Such medicines can have a effect on Asthma victims in the nation.
I read everywhere that india is leading in software market. Guys and Gals, sorry but I am not Computer savvy, though I love war games, I have always wondered, why cant we Indians design and implement realtime simulators for jet fighters, cops, fire fighters etc?
I seriously think that defence and Civilian R&D needs to shake hands. So much talent is being wasted. Any hiccups?
Gill Graduate
Gill,
simple answer to your question is our dumb politicians and their lack of will and non-activeness.
We need presidency system and inward looking pshycology in our youths whose only dream is become rich and settle in west..... <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
No Vishu,
I disagree. I have spoken to some IT guys from India on H1 here in US. Dude majority of them have no special skills or creativity.
What has gone wrong? Why are we afraid to dream? Tata when 51 % part of Lucent had the biggest R&D dept.
India should offer incentives as tax breaks to private sector based on their R&D programs. Force the companies to integrate new techs for civilian and defence usage.
It is sad that a $120 radr laser finder in front of a locomotive can ensure no collisions take place. [Refer to new mercedes car]
I dont think its system, I think its management. Now I know why Kalam was a success. He is right, there is no creativity or independent thought process in India, we are too quick to pick and ridicule anyone who comes out with something different.
This is one sphere where govt needs to take action, lets see Vishu, till then hats off to the new Indian Generation, make India proud.
Gill <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
[quote name='Gill' date='Nov 18 2003, 12:16 AM'] I seriously think that defence and Civilian R&D needs to shake hands. So much talent is being wasted. Any hiccups?
[/quote]
Gill: If I'm not mistaken, most of the defence production in India is managed by Govt say like HAL or other such public sectors (anyone can correct me here - not my area). The sooner this companies go private, the better it'll be IMHO.
There is plenty of talent in India and in Indians. But it will flourish only in the right environment with proper motivation, incentives. This is where our leadership has to make the difference.
[quote name='Gill' date='Nov 19 2003, 06:53 AM'] ......................
This is one sphere where govt needs to take action, lets see Vishu , till then hats off to the new Indian Generation, make India proud.
Gill <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> [/quote]
Gillji,
are you refering to me as "vishu" ? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
if no, then why not? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' />
if yes, then, ...a hhh ehhh...oo.hh...hehe... <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> "Vishu" looks smart <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />
thanks thanks for that Gillu-ji <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
[quote name='vishal' date='Nov 19 2003, 01:25 PM'] thanks thanks for that Gillu-ji <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> [/quote]
Vishal / Vishu,
I think Gill ji is senior to us, u can't refer to him as Gillu, but he can call you Vishu! <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
Now, Who says life's fair? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' />
[quote name='Gill' date='Nov 17 2003, 10:16 PM'] I read everywhere that india is leading in software market. Guys and Gals, sorry but I am not Computer savvy, though I love war games, I have always wondered, why cant we Indians design and implement realtime simulators for jet fighters, cops, fire fighters etc? [/quote]
Gill:
Sorry, that part is not true. IAF / TACDE is using fligt simulators to train our pilots.
Here's an article, from BR: [url="http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-1/chatto.html"] The Indian Air Force: Flying into the 21st Century[/url]
Some relevent quotes:
Quote:Total annual flying hours declined from 256,200 hours in 1991/92 to 239,000 hours in 1993/94. A recovery began only in 1994/95 and in 1997/98, the IAF crossed the 300,000 hours mark.
These tense times offered the IAF several lessons, namely the need to establish local overhaul facilities and the conservation, where possible, of equipment and spares. An increase in simulator availability has gone a long way allowing for the latter. These lessons seem to have been learnt well and have benefited the force immensely.
Quote:Training
The IAF offers a very rigorous flying training schedule for its pilots. Before being assigned to operational squadrons, pilots are expected to log over 300 hours of flying at the basic, intermediate and advanced levels. However, maintaining the very high standards of training will pose a challenge for the air force in the new century. The problem is particularly acute at the advanced fighter training level. The problem arises form the age and unsuitability of the MiG Operational Flying Training Unit's (MOFTU) aircraft. As of now fighter pilots are expected to log 125 hours on the unit's MiG-21FL and UM before being assigned to squadrons. The some of these aircraft are now over 30 years old and in very poor state of repair. The MiG-21FLs were phased out of Indian production in the mid-1970s hence spares for the type are very difficult to come by. Whatever spares are available are second-hand. Furthermore the early generations of MiG-21s are unforgiving aircraft and pushing over a certain AoA at over 600 knots, sends the aircraft into an uncontrollable spin. Old airframes together with the fact that many IAF pilots go straight from basic training to MiG-21FL/UM explains the high accident rates for the type. In addition to the human cost, this has an unfavorable impact on morale for younger pilots. The IAF has been trying for years to purchase suitable Advanced Jet Trainers (AJT) to ease the transition to high performance aircraft. Both the Hawk and Alpha Jet were evaluated in the 1980s, but funding problems & dithering on the part of the government kept IAF from placing orders. More recently, the IAF has revised its interest in purchasing the Hawk (the Alpha Jet being long out of production). However, Britain's inability (and reluctance) to refurbish Indian Navy Sea Harriers in the face of a US arms embargo have thrown into doubt the UK's ability to provide support for any Hawks that may be purchased. With the acquisition of AJT hanging in the air, the IAF's training problems are likely to get more acute. It is unfortunate that neither the IAF nor the Ministry of Defence has shown any interest in turning the HJT-36 intermediate trainer, now in development, into an AJT.
After a bad patch in the early 1990s, the IAF has been able to restore training in operational squadrons to their normal levels. Increased use of simulators have made a substantial difference to IAF training programs in recent years by making enhancing safety and preserving airframe life. Advanced fighter training has received a boost with the acquisition of Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI) systems for the Tactics & Air Combat Development Establishment (TACDE) at Jamnagar. TACDE now offers courses in EW and helicopter combat. It also provides Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) facilities to the Sea Harriers of the Navy.
hahahahah Vishu, yes I mean Vishal. Gillu is fine with me but the "ji" or "sir". Thanks for the link to IAF simulators etc.
I see there are plenty of dos in this forum. Can anyone highlight or propose how defence research can be applied to medical and other infrastructure fields?
I have an idea. Indian Armed Forces are the most disciplined infrastructure in India, why cant we employ them for contruction of basic facilities for our people, like in constructing roads etc?
Any private firm would love to have these guys onboard. Any suggestions?
Gillu hahahahah <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Mr. Krishan,
I also mentioned fire-fighters, cops etc. Simulators for firefighters can develop techinques and new ideas to tackle fires. They can be equipped with thermal imagers to locate victims in fire, etc. I saw a program about FDNY and they have emplyed all stations with these gizmos.
We can manufacture them am I right?
Cops can have realtime shooting range in a room with a screen to sharpen their reaction time and insticnts. As VP Malik said, lean mean fighting machine.
Jai Hind
Gill,
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Can anyone highlight or propose how defence research can be applied to medical and other infrastructure fields?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During Second World War in UK a team of scientists applied scientific methods in study of the military operations to win battle. The technique thus developed was name Operational Research.
To save injured soldiers, lot of new medicines and technique came into this world. Progresses in surgery are gift from war.
To develop lighter and strong metal for space craft and missiles, Indian Doctors started using this in artificial limbs.
To keep soldiers in Siachen Indian Defense Research team are now world best in High Mountain care.
Better roads are built for smooth movement of forces even in remote part of India.
Mr. Mudy and all others,
Tahnk you for the info. The point I am trying to make is why cant we utilize defence institutions for infrastructural needs of the nation?
i.e. A private firm gets a govt contract to build roads in Delhi, the firm approaches the army and seeks its engineers. In return a payment is made to relief fund or to the army budget, which in turn comes back to the govt.
The firm is happy, it got its job done, army is happy it got funds, govt is happy becasue the funds eventually found its way back to govt.
Now the army has a surplus in its budget. It can hire private R&D for new weapon systems while civilian applications can be used as well.
I dont know if I able to project my views correctly. [lets find out]
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The point I am trying to make is why cant we utilize defence institutions for infrastructural needs of the nation?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most R&D In defense is classified. If and only if it is declassified will it be used for commercial purposes. It might be interesting to note that even in the Arthashastra there is mention of 'Biological' and 'chemical' warfare. Kautilya states that "After one's own soldiers have been given the antidote, and are immune to the disease/smoke, can the biological/chemical agents be released."
If you make defense technology public in real-time, the enemy will be the first to benefit. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Now the army has a surplus in its budget. It can hire private R&D for new weapon systems while civilian applications can be used as well.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is possible if and only if the private firm hired is reliable, and is exclusively serving the army with maximum penalty for breach of contract. While Boeing, GE, Mitre etc do take up defense contract, the amount of security clearance needed by it's employees in quite high. Defense contracting is a game where stakes are high, and trust is low.
Sunder,
I am sorry I dont buy that secret stuff. I am not asking for hi-tech stuff. Simple stuff. My wife is currently in India, UP. During the day there is no electricity. I havent lived in India, thus I cannot realize the impact. Here in NY we had a blackout, life came to a standstill. I had such hard time.
Only thing that kept me going was thinking of my fellow countrymen who go through this everyday of their lives.
Can you imagine a silo in Assam suddenly lose power? Surely, it doesnt happen, but why? Why cant same principles be applied in public sector?
You say, companies need to be honest, reliable etc. Is DRDO full of honest people? Am I to believe there is no form of spying or illegal dealings going on by people trusted to our sensitive research? God! During Mulayam Singh as defence Minister, MoD kept certain files away from his reach!
One has to take a bold step. We can come up with hundred excuses why it shouldnt be done, but why cant it be done? I think there are many people in India who are talented and in public sector. Look at yourself, you are one of them, I am sure you would love to work on solving the weight problem for Arjun MBT, or avionics for LCA.
I dont believe this, what is GOI doing?
<b>President Kalam impresses Nobel laureate</b>
Nobel laureate Dr Torsten Wiesel is impressed by President APJ Abdul Kalam's deep commitment towards science.
Delivering the Jagadish Chandra Bose lecture in New Delhi on Wednesday, Wiesel, an expert in the field of brain sciences research, said he was impressed by dedication of Indian officials towards science.
<b>This kind of understanding is not very common among officials, he said</b>. Particularly referring to Kalam's speech during the inauguration of the National Brain Research Centre at Manesar on Tuesday, he said the President had not only looked into the field (brain science) but actually knew the details.
Wiesel said countries across the world should collaborate in the area of science to take advantage of each others' expertise. "Science is an international enterprise and scientists in different parts of the world should collaborate," he said.
Wiesel asserted that scientists cannot work in isolation in today's times. "You should get training outside (the country) and come back to train others," he said.
Stating that science was now inter-disciplinary, he said life sciences was the branch where maximum activity was taking place. However, it required contribution from other branches like physics and mathematics. During 1900-1970, physics had dominated the field, he recalled.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gill+Dec 17 2003, 02:42 AM-->QUOTE(Gill @ Dec 17 2003, 02:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Mr. Mudy and all others,
Tahnk you for the info. The point I am trying to make is why cant we utilize defence institutions for infrastructural needs of the nation?
i.e. A private firm gets a govt contract to build roads in Delhi, the firm approaches the army and seeks its engineers. In return a payment is made to relief fund or to the army budget, which in turn comes back to the govt.
The firm is happy, it got its job done, army is happy it got funds, govt is happy becasue the funds eventually found its way back to govt.
Now the army has a surplus in its budget. It can hire private R&D for new weapon systems while civilian applications can be used as well.
I dont know if I able to project my views correctly. [lets find out] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gill,
this is general problem with company laws in india.
like someone said somewhere on BRF that, difference between west and india is that,in west you can do anything while certain things are banned.And in India everything is banned, you can do things only after govt. approval.
Thats where india sucks.india has everything.We even have more no. of talented engineers than in US but ENVIRONMENT is ROTTEN. <!--emo&:thumbdown--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo-->
nothing will change untill and unless central govt. changes laws completely. <!--emo&  leepy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleepysmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sleepysmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Gill....
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->My wife is currently in India, UP. During the day there is no electricity. I havent lived in India, thus I cannot realize the impact. Here in NY we had a blackout, life came to a standstill. I had such hard time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have been in India for a majority of my life. I had been thru power cuts (planned and unplanned.) During summer, I know power cuts for 2-5 hours every day. Life goes on.. Another name for India is "Sab kuch chaltha hai." I have also been to villages with absolutely no electricity. Ppl are happier than I see in New York. During sunset, there is a petromox light or a lantern, and people chat away (quality time), amidst the crickets chirping. You can hear a distant howl of a jackal or a dog, or even owls hoot.. And honestly, I MISS IT.. I love going back to the villages there whenever I visit even now, but there's some electricity in the past few years.
I fully recognize your point of view that electricity alone can bring a higher quality of life, but there is more to mother earth than just computers and cell phones... I Haven't seen a sense of hospitality or close human affection like in the villages. The festivals for the "Gram-devata" is a major event.. Only punctuated by the 'oggukatha' or pravachans in the spring evenings, in the open air, with the soothing breeze and the wafting smell of sweet flowers. It's nostalgic even while I write this post.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Only thing that kept me going was thinking of my fellow countrymen who go through this everyday of their lives.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the concern. But please visit the villages once when you go to India. It may change your view.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You say, companies need to be honest, reliable etc. Is DRDO full of honest people? Am I to believe there is no form of spying or illegal dealings going on by people trusted to our sensitive research?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An exception does not make a rule. I can elaborate if need be.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One has to take a bold step. We can come up with hundred excuses why it shouldnt be done, but why cant it be done?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This brings me to the topic at hand. Why army need not be used for mundane activities.. The government already has an electricity board, and pwd that should take care of roads and electricity. The defense sector should concentrate on what it does best.. Defend.
Asking the army to dig your backyard is not practical. The point you should be focusing on is why the governement sectors are not performing at atleast 80% efficiency (witn 20% contingency).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> I think there are many people in India who are talented and in public sector. Look at yourself, you are one of them, I am sure you would love to work on solving the weight problem for Arjun MBT, or avionics for LCA.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope.. <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> I am not the right person.. I can perhaps do Ayudha pooja for it.. Or teach meditation and mind control. But not work with heavy machinary. I know my limits and shall stick to it.
<!--emo&:thumbsup--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' /><!--endemo--> <b>India aims to launch RLV by 2015: ISRO</b>
India is working on a technology demonstrator for Reusable Launch Vehicle which it plans to put in space by 2015, Indian Space Research Organisation Chairman G Madhavan Nair said on Wednesday.
"A demonstrator towards developing newer technologies for the Reusable Launch Vehicle is in the initial phase of design, making use of concurrent engineering practices and inter-disciplinary design approach," Nair said in his Neelakantan Memorial Lecture at the 55th annual general meeting of the Aeronautical Society of India.
"Studies have been initiated. It takes that much time (15 years), so we have to start wetting our hands for building the demonstrator," Nair told reporters.
"The demonstrator is small, it has a diameter of one metre by five metres. It will be launched by a small rocket from Sriharikota," he said.
Asked about the timeframe for designing a full scale RLV, Nair said, "Once we wet our hands, we can make the design maybe in 10 or 15 years, maybe 2020."
ISRO, he said, had begun studies on various cryogenic and semi-cryogenic boosters, besides in the rocket based combined cycle engine development including air-breathing propulsion.
"Satellite Recovery Experiment involving re-entry/recovery have also been planned in the near future," Nair said, adding, it would be ready in the next 18 months.
<!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Govt. has opened defense sector for 100% foreign investment!</b>
Zee news flashed the news.Confirmed.
does it mean death of indian defense R&D???
<b> Does this UNI india news website has any credibility? <!--emo&:lol:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' /><!--endemo--> I hope this report is truth.(ISRO has denied it when asked in a press conference) </b>
http://www.uniindia.com/unilive%5Cunisite....51?OpenDocument
<b> India's first 'Space Robot' developed, launch next year </b>
Created on : 12/14/2003 11:59:01 AM (NORMAL )
Hyderabad, Dec 14 (UNI) In another step forward for the Indian space programme, the country is all set to launch its first ''Space Robot''.
The 'Space Robot' (SR), with an in-built 'RUDAC' communication signal processor, will be used to capture damaged satellites and space debris from crashing to Earth, CSRDC-CSRL and ISRDO Director Dr M Sreedhar Dayal told UNI.
Signals could be sent from an Earth station to make the Robot, built with a space control system, perform various tasks. The SR will use solar energy to activitate its 'wrist' movement and to navigate through space.
The launch would be done simultaneously along with one of the five satellites being developed by the three R and D institutions CSRDC (Communication Services Research and Development Centre), CSRL (Communication and Space Research Labs) and ISRDO (Indian Satellite Research and Development Organisation).
Space Robot marks a significant step in the country's Space programme. While Japan had very advanced Robotic Technology, it lacked the launch vehicle capability. On the other hand the United States had a very advanced Space programme but did not possess Robotic technology, Dr Dayal added.
Besides, the ''trinity'' are also working on the ''Spatial Computer'' capable of performing huge asstronomical calculations in seconds. Equipped with the very high speed nanoprocessors and Ultra-Large Scale Integrator (ULSI) and Giga Large Scale Integrator (GLSI) chips, the computer would be networked with 300 mainframe machines to carry out various applications.
The cost of the project, including the development of the Indian Irdium Satellite, Indian Spy Satellite, Indian ELINT Satellite and Indian Bio Satellite, is estimated at Rs 50 crore, of which ten per cent would be organisational contribution of the three institutions.
A five-member Members of Parliament committee will be constituted for effective and proper management of funds, he added.
UNI KM SV HS1151
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