er... as an aside, i know for a fact that some hindus (esp konkanis and tullus) visit the churches in mangalore and other parts of the konkan coast. they go there for the father/bishop to hand out bread crumbs or some such.
why this phenomenon?? are these the hindu equivalent of "rice christians"?? ie. the bread hindus??
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Hmm the meaning i wanted to convey was not that of the rice christians.
The modus operandi differs a little from the north to the south , isolate the flock and pounce upon them , to isolate them make inroads masking the local god's in similar terms of the gospel.
For example there are conversions going on in the north in punjab too , the terms used are satsang , guru ,kirtan etc etc whereas they actually mean the church , pastor and the choir.
Since the tightly knit community features were absent down south, the pastor's use that method more effectively.
OK I GET YOU. you stil havent explained the bread hindus though.
Regarding the question of resistance around 1326 Muhammed bin tughlaq mounted a vicious attack on the andhra country , the chieftans of andhra mounted a serious counter attack .
1.Hari hara and bukka were captured produced in the delhi sultanate, they ultimately escaped and under the guidance of vidyaranya founded the vijayanagara empire.
i knwo that.
2.In karanataka Somadeva of aravidu mounted a spectacular assault on Malik Zada the commander of the mughal forces , slaughtered the mughal armies and restored the kingdom to the hindu's.
3.The vijayanagara empire reigned from 1336 till the most important battle of talikota 1565 .The contributions of the empire in keeping alive the hindu traditions in the face of the islamic demon are praise worthy .
i am aware of that. what resistance would they have offered though, if they didnt have people like Somadeva, hari hara and bukka at the right time?? thats what i meant. bihar/magadh had ashok... but not during the muslim arrival. by then bihar had become a hotbed of buddhism (bihar=vihar=monastry).
It is noteworthy to remember that the Maratha's themselves were inspired by Samartha Ramadas the great saint in a similar fashion.
That was a watershed , the scale of destruction wrecked upon by the vijayanagara empire and to the lands of andhra , karnataka and tamilanadu was immense.
I beleive this dealt a huge blow to the psyche , south india is not separate in this regard , there were warriors who fought bravely , even during the 1600's -1800's there were tribal chiefs to kings who fought bravely against the british but could not appeal to the larger masses .
My original post referred to the loss of the pride factor , when the mughal armies razed and plundered after the destruction of the vijayanagara empire in typical islamic fashion made sure all vestiges were wiped out.
yes. i know about the bahamani habit of killing X-many brahmins/hindus just for kicks.
The south underwent islamic damage during that period , it was spared before that and the destruction unleashed during the sack of vijayanagara and later defeat of the nayakas put a serious dent on the psyche .
yes. karnataka and a.p directly went under muslims of the bloodiest kind.
Even during the later period 1600's-1800's there were chieftan's and kings who tried to rise the banner of revolt but could not inspire the masses maybe due to the horror of the past.
yes... this "horror of the past" thing has caused h-u-g-e damage to the common indian, all over india.
Like the rest of india , each part had its own problems and the people will bounce back in their own way--atleast some generations from now is what I can wish for.
a good wish too. and i will join you in wishing the same. cheers !
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 8 2006, 07:17 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 8 2006, 07:17 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->er... as an aside, i know for a fact that some hindus (esp konkanis and tullus) visit the churches in mangalore and other parts of the konkan coast. they go there for the father/bishop to hand out bread crumbs or some such.
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Ben.. that statement about Konkani and Tullu stereotyping BS. There's no more truth to it than a some sikh or a bengali or marathi or tamilian or whatever dropping by church. So drop it Ben. I'm getting little tired on this broad generalizations about a mallu or bengali is commie, rajput is coward, jat is hero, punjabi are xxx...., marwardis are .... gujus are... you get the idea.
<b>This has to stop on this discussion board. Period. </b>
(Admin hat on)
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Feb 9 2006, 08:12 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Feb 9 2006, 08:12 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 8 2006, 07:17 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 8 2006, 07:17 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->er... as an aside, i know for a fact that some hindus (esp konkanis and tullus) visit the churches in mangalore and other parts of the konkan coast. they go there for the father/bishop to hand out bread crumbs or some such.
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Ben.. that statement about Konkani and Tullu stereotyping BS. There's no more truth to it than a some sikh or a bengali or marathi or tamilian or whatever dropping by church. So drop it Ben. I'm getting little tired on this broad generalizations about a mallu or bengali is commie, rajput is coward, jat is hero, punjabi are xxx...., marwardis are .... gujus are... you get the idea.
<b>This has to stop on this discussion board. Period. </b>
(Admin hat on)
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er...dont jump to conclusions....cos... i know it from konkani and tullu friends of mine.
doesnt get more horses mouth than that !!!
they are hindus, and yet they go to church and were discussing how their mothers went in time just to ensure they got the bread crumbs the bishop/padre dished out.
that sounded very odd to me but i didnt want to ask them what the reason behind their hybrid practices were, lest they get offended in some way.
no generalisation. that would be if i said all konkanis go to church. re-read my queiry.
so what should i drop?? its one thing to go to a church (i have been to plenty) another thing to attend mass.
if board members cant answer me., then i'll find out from somewhere else.
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 9 2006, 08:49 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 9 2006, 08:49 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->er...dont jump to conclusions....cos... i know it from konkani and tullu friends of mine.
doesnt get more horses mouth than that !!!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ben, I wont intervene in this line of discussion, but in order to justify you are not generalizing, I have a question for you.
What percentage of the Konkani and Tullu community (not just among your friend circle) visit church regularly ? Can you ask you friends and get the answer form the horse's mouth whether 80% or more Konkanis visit church for bread crumbs ?
thanks,
Sunder.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->er...dont jump to conclusions....cos... i know it from konkani and tullu friends of mine.
doesnt get more horses mouth than that !!!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really!!! I personally would be more than happy to respond to them - either in Konkani or in Tullu - take your choice. But not on this discussion board.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->if board members cant answer me., then i'll find out from somewhere else.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good idea Ben, there's a certain kind chit-chat gossip we try to avoid on this forum.
fine i'll do that.
but i was asked to translate songs and stuff. so i thought some of the members of the konkan cosat could maybe clarify my doubts.
@sunder.
i dont know what percentage. i know some konkan-coast hindus do. and was wondering what the reason could be.
my personal take is that they do it under the christian influence. you knwo i have seen sardar ji's in puri's jagganath temple. have heard instances of muslims doing kali puja or taking holy dips. that sort of thing.
PS : my moniker is ben_ami, not ben.
Quote:we put no resistance and had muslims rule.
others put a lot of resistance... and had muslim rule.
go figure.
So other states put no resistance against British rule and still had British rule while Bengal did have resistance and still had British rule so go figure before spewing nonsense about how Bengalis know how to fight while others don't.
Quote:yes and by then (47) the switch in populations had already taken place. you hardly need tell me about that, cos my ancestral family caomes from Moimonsingh, in bangladesh. you know crapshit about the exodus that took place in bengal and when exactly it took place.
in punjab the exodus was during 1947 and resulted in a bolldbath. here 90% of the switch had already taken place, during the partition of bengal itself and that was largely peaceful. if the muslims killed hindu bengalis later, then thats just cos they are muslims and lose no chance to kill few infidels more. its best you keep quiet about stuff you have no first hand info about.
You need to go read your history before spewing nonsense, before partition took place East Bengal was 30% Hindu and 70% Muslim approximately, after the riots subsided it went down to 22% Hindu and it was not peaceful as you claim, it was a bloodbath of Hindus, go read the book (The Prolonged Partition and Its Pogroms Testimonies on Violence against Hindus in East Bengal (1946-1964) by A.J. Kamra with a Foreword by Koenraad Elst) or the online book at bengalvoice.com, they catalogue all the major riots during partition and the exodus of millions of Hindus, commie education seems to be a good brainwashing mechanism, anyone with an elementary knowledge of history knows that the exodus of Hindus from East Bengal was not peaceful but was forced by repeated massacres and your statement that it was largely peaceful is an insult to the thousands of victims at Noakhali and Tipperah alone.
Quote:true. but the vijaynagar empoire howsoever humble its beginings, went on to become one of the most powerful, rich and glorious empire in all indian history. had they ended up as another of the many mushrooming kingdoms we had in india, then they would not have been able to offer the resistance they did.
So you changed your tune now, before you were claiming only states with already powerful kingdoms during Muslim arrival provided good resistance and I showed that the Vijayanagar was built after Muslims already arrived so stop sidestepping the issue.
Quote:forget ancient india. the main difference between modern and medieval (islamic) india was the predominance of sati, child marriage, the lack of widow remarriage, female education, dowry and other crap.
if you so disregard him, then dont send your daughters to school, marry them off at age 13, prepare to pay loads of dowry, and prepare a funeral pyre for a "sati" spectacle shoudl any unforseen incidents happen??
you may be sad that these social evils are no longer part of indian society, but there are lots of indians who are glad that they have been rendered a thing of the past.
Dowry has no sanction in Hindu scriptures and neither does sati, scriptures suggested it as an alternative but never ordered anyone to commit sati and the half anglicised idol of yours was not the first to ban sati so stuff it, it was banned by Akbar and later under the Peshwas and I will send my daughters to school because the Vedas themselves were written by many women sages and this half anglicised idiot had no largescale influence outside Bengal so dont tell me what to do and what not to do because Mohan Roy had no influene in Andhra and was not the reason Hindus started sending their girl children to schools.
Quote:so how come this person never did anything to abolish sati?? child marriage?? install widow remarriage acts?? female education?????
where's the proof of the pudding eh??
Sati was already banned, you showed your complete ignorance now, it is well known that Dayananda condemned sati, child marriage and lack of female education and his Arya Samaj was instrumental in social reform, in the Arya Samaj females first got an opportunity to perform all the Hindu rites and it also trained women priests, he did not go to the British masters and beg them for anything, the Arya Samaj established DAV schools everywhere and took active part in social reform, go firgure why Dayananda is considered one of the greatest modern Indians and Aurobindo could not stop praising him and Sita Ram Goel mentions him as one of the greatest modern day Hindus.
Quote:how about listing the freedom fighters that the brahmo samaj spawned ???
brahmo samaj never become christianised, but just added a monotheistic veneer - which kept christianity at bay. read koenraad elst's explaination on this instead spewing fables.
Why dont you list these Brahmo Samaj freedom fighters who sacrificed their lives for the nation?, Brahmo Samaj did become christianised and that was the reason there was a split, one only has to read the praise Brahmo Samaj was bestowing on the Englishman, Christ on public platforms to know what happened, only the wilfully blind still can't see the truth.
Quote:he was right - only the other way round. i have explained all that in the history of bengal thread.
Whether he was right or wrong about AIT is not the point here, he was a British loyalist who was justifying British rule using the AIT, Savarkar and Tilak also believed in AIT but they never justified foreign rule using AIT so Keshab Chandra Sens British worship was a fruit of the Brahmo Samaj.
Quote:i said just cos the noackali killings took place doesnt mean the bengal partition was not oposed.
math was never your strong point was it??
And my original point was that there was no retaliation in Bengal against Muslims which you try to hide by ridiculous theories and excuses (even going to the extent of saying that the population transfer from East Bengal was largely peaceful).
Quote:there was no large scale retaliation in bangal against the brits??? what are you smoking??
I said there was no retaliation worth mentioning in Bengal against Muslims during partition not the British.
Quote:the brits left in idnia in 1947, not on noakhali day.
Again my question still stands, if Punjab was retaliating against Muslims while still being ruled by Brits then why couldn't Bengal?, Hindus were still being killed in East Bengal as late as 1950 which was what led to the NEHRU-LIAQUAT PACT, the Brits were long gone from Bengal by 1950 so do tell us what the martial Bengali Hindus were doing in 1950, shouldn't they be retaliating against the Muslims now that the bigger enemy (Brits) were gone?
Quote:just take your parochial hogwash somewhere else. i am not looking forward to another sambarsoaked reply
I suggest the same to you, if you don't want generalisations about Bengalis then stop talking crap about others whether they are Punjabis, South Indians, Tulus or whoever. The following statements of yours show amply who is parochial and who is not:
Quote:ask an andhraite about tipu sultan and haider ali and see what they have to say.
no tipu wasnt and haider ali neither.
yet they think of them as some sort of saviour.
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...opic=496&st=150
So you talked to a few Andhra Hindus and were very confident saying that they consider Tipu Sultan as a hero.
And when Aryawan made some general comment about Bengal here you were very quick to jump in and say "what marxists say should not be taken as the voice of a people" :
the "wrong" bit is the last paragraph.
Quote:we hate bangladeshis. they are the reason that 2/3 of our land went out of our hands.
what marxists say should not be taken as the voice of a people. take prakash and brinda karat for example. is that how marathis's think? in a leftist way ??
what you are talking of, happens in another part of india, where they have joint sports events and other crap with a certain millitant religion
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...topic=1091&st=0
But for Andhra "what a few Andhra Hindus say should be taken as the voice of a people"
Everyone can see the double standards and hypocrisy. Another one of your comments about Afghans:
Quote:i wont marry a muslim woman with turkic or arab blood who converts to hindusim.
i dont think its good news for hindu women either, if afghan hounds declare themselves brahmins and marry hindus.
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...opic=673&st=150
Anyone with elementary knowledge of history knows that the Afghans turned to barbarism after they became Muslims, before that Afghanistan was a cradle of Hindu/Buddhist culture with the Kauravas coming from there, but to you the Afghans are somehow inherently inferior and they are hounds and it is bad if Hindus marry them even after they renounced Islam and became Hindus, if that is not the height of racism and parochialism I don't know what is. It is like me saying that since Bengal has been ruled by marxists for so long it is bad for other Hindus to marry Bengali Hindus.
This is my last reply to you, people who followed this debate can come to their own conclusions about who is parochial and who is not and who is spineless and who is not.
Guys please maintain thread discipline. I hate zapping posts.
Anyways
http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=42233
My question is mainly who is Dr George Hart ? Does he have any relation with Dravidianist politics ? Who in the current academia are dravidianist supporters ?
My question is mainly who is Dr George Hart ? Does he have any relation with Dravidianist politics ? Who in the current academia are dravidianist supporters ?
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The url given under the blog shows that Dr. George Hart is a Professor of Tamil in Berkeley. The blogger seems to think that Tamil was made a Classical Language only after the say-so of Dr. Hart ! <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Being a Tamilian myself I donot think heavens will fall if Kannada is also given the status of a classical language.
I fail to see anything <i>Dravidian</i> in all this. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The boy who gives a truer picture of 'Periyar'
V SUNDARAM
I recently interviewed M Venkatesan, a 'Dalit', whose family has been living in a slum area called Hanumanthapuram in Triplicane during the last 25 years. I am specifically mentioning the fact that he belongs to the Dalit community only to take the wind from the sails of self-styled, castiest and communalist Dravidian leaders who often pride themselves as saviours, champions, protectors and upholders of the backward and suppressed communities in Tamilnadu under the political umbrella of 'self-respect' and 'social justice'. Venkatesan is a bright, hardworking and precocious young man who has taken his MA in Philosophy from Vivekananda College, Chennai. He told me that when he joined the Vivekananda College, he had to face a barrage of difficult and unanswerable questions from his fellow students on the so-called 'revolutionary and unprecedented' contribution of 'Periyar E V Ramasamy Naicker' to the emancipation and liberation of the oppressed and suppressed communities in Tamilnadu. Finding himself in a state of siege, Venkatesan, being a Dalit himself, took the initiative of researching into almost all the publications brought out by 'Periyar Suyamariyadai Prachara Nilayam' and also into the writings of Periyar's contemporaries like Annadurai, M P Sivagnanam, comrade Jeevanandam, KAP Viswanathan, etc. Not being totally satisfied he went through all the magazines and journals like 'Viduthalai', 'Kudiyarasu', 'Dravida Naadu', 'Dravidan' etc, relating to the period during which Periyar lived in order to ascertain the truth and also to get hold of solid and irrefutable facts.
As a great believer in Hinduism and Hindu philosophy, his sensitive soul was tortured by the baseless attacks of Periyar on Hindu Gods and Goddesses. I would like to quote his own words in this context: 'I could not help viewing Periyar's uncivilised and barbarous attacks upon my chosen Gods and Goddesses and my own Hindu faith as wanton attacks on my dear and sacred mother who begot me. My search into the works of Periyar and my extensive reading of all his articles gave a rude cultural shock to me. I was greatly dismayed by the hellish hatred of Periyar towards my faith and towards my chosen Gods and Goddesses'.
Hatred of Brahmins and hatred of Hindu Gods, these according to Venkatesan were the only pith and pin of Periyar's public life.
According to Venkatesan, Periyar was a man of virulent contradictions, inexplicable incongruities and inchoate insensitivities. As he very much wanted these facts to be made known to the public he has written a book in Tamil entitled 'E V Ramasamy Naickarin Marupakkam' (The other side of E V Ramasamy Naickar).
During the course of my interview, he told me with an anguished feeling that if only people cared to read my book on 'E V Ramasamy Naickar', then they will clearly understand how some sections of people in Tamilnadu, behaving like heads of cattle, were brainwashed into the hero-worship of E V Ramasamy Naickar, completely ignoring the inherent and fundamental contradictions in his self-proclaimed ideologies founded only on communal hatred of Brahmins and atheistic hatred of Hindu Gods. Venkatesan's view is that Periyar wrongly thought that when he attacked Brahmins, he was attacking Hinduism and when he attacked Hinduism, he was attacking Brahmins. At the same time, the comedy is that Periyar had very warm feelings towards the Gods of Islam and Christianity. 'I am really ashamed of those people who have veneration for E V Ramasamy Naickar and his perverse philosophy of selective hatred of men and things. I am no less rational or serious than him when I say this', observed Venkatesan.
Venkatesan emphatically declared that Periyar did nothing for the emancipation of the oppressed and suppressed dalits. On the contrary he was inimical towards all the dalits whom he treated with utmost contempt. His contempt for the dalits (90 per cent) was only exceeded by his hatred for the Brahmins (100 per cent). To quote from Venkatesan's book: Periyar said: 'The attempt to promote 'temple entry' and 'abolition of untouchability' by the Congress leaders should not result in the tragedy of people belonging to the backward classes getting reduced to the level of scheduled castes. Instead of attempting to raise the status of Scheduled Castes (Parayans), an attempt should not be made to reduce the status of backward Class (Sudrans) by relegating them to the levels of Scheduled Castes. On no account should the existing status of Sudrans be reduced to the level of Parayans'. Venkatesan says in his book that Periyar's contempt if not hatred for the dalits was shown in another context by his flash
observation: 'One of the main reasons why there is an upward trend in the prices of clothes and textiles is that women belonging to the Scheduled Castes (Parachies) have started wearing blouses these days. The reason for growing unemployment in society is on account of increasing number of people belonging to Scheduled Castes (Parayans) taking to school education and higher education'. Venkatesan concludes that Periyar was a sworn enemy of dalits, their education, emancipation, growth and development. 'As a dalit I have come to this definite conclusion based upon Periyar's golden thoughts, observations and averments on my dalit community', says Venkatesan.
Even a cursory reading of Venkatesan's book will show how Periyar, who was always concerned with the self-respect of the Dravidian race, and more particularly the Tamil race, upheld the glory, the greatness and the grandeur of the Tamil language for over 70 years through his historic and time-defying observations and writings which will ring across centuries. Here are a few pearls from 'Periyarana' cited by Venkatesan in his book:
'For more than 40 years, I have been describing Tamil as a barbarous language (Kattumirandi Mozhi) used only by barbarians. When Brahmins and the Brahmin-dominated government wanted to make Hindi a State language, I started, to a very limited extent, advocating the promotion of Tamil language only to oppose the imposition of Hindi language. The only language that ought to replace Tamil is English. What is not there in English which can be found in Tamil Language?'
Periyar's patriotism and love for our nation are brought out in his own statement: 'Though I might have blocked the exit of the Englishmen from India, though I might have betrayed in a treasonable manner the cause of India's freedom, I have not been a party to the installation of sinners from the Brahmin community with its fall out effects of domination of people from Northern India backed by the lust for money power, paraphernalia of public offices and self-interest'.
I have quoted only very very sparingly from the book authoured by Venkatesan. In order to fully understand the truth-defying greatness of 'Periyar' and Periyarism in proper perspective, one has to read this book from end to end with great care and caution, inspired by the shadow ideals of 'self-respect' and 'rationalism'.
I view Venkatesan as a symbol of a new awakening among the youth in Tamilnadu. I am quite impressed by his zest for learning, thoroughness in his approach to academic research and above all his fearless gentlemanliness deriving its unassailable strength from his passion for truth and justice. Venkatesan lamented: 'The trouble with Tamilnadu is that prejudice often scores a victory over principle. Prejudice, which sees what it pleases, cannot see what is plain. I only wanted to pursue plain truth and nothing else'.
http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06mar/0803ss1.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From above..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Definition of Dravidanad and link with M.A.Jinnah...
To the criticisms levelled against his scheme of a Dravidian State, E.V.R. replied in detail in a letter to the editor of the Mail (20 Nov 1939). His definition of Dravidanad lay on linguistic bases in the same manner as the Congress demanded linguistic bases in the same manner as the Congress demanded linguistic bases in the same manner as the Congress demanded linguistic provinces. But, for E.V.R. the concept was a Dravidian Federation which compromised all areas where the four major Dravidian languages were spoken. His definition of Dravidians included all people who inhabited those areas - "Muslims, Christians, Depressed classes and all 'Hindus' except Brahmins who call themselves Aryans." As to the problem of non-Tamilians [meaning Brahmins] would be duly protected and properly safeguarded. As regards the problems of defence and foreign relations of the proposed Dravidian State, he recognised the need of British help for an interim period.
  <b>From the beginning of 1940 E.V.R. added a new dimension to his theory of Dravidanad by joining hands with M.A. Jinnah and supporting the Muslim League's demand for a separate Muslim State.
</b>
In January 1940, at the invitation of the non-Brahmin citizens of Bombay, E.V.R. visited Bombay where he met Jinnah and B.R. Ambedkar, Leader of the Depressed classes. Speaking in Tamil at Dharavi, Bombay, E.V.R. said that he was disgusted with the Brahmin domination which "had crushed the spirit of the masses and kept them under religious, economic, social and political subjection". E.V.R. held that Brahmins were not Tamilians and that they were foreigners. He argued that in order to get the province freed from Brahmins the only remedy was to create Tamilnad into a separate state like Burma. He pointed out that Tamilnad had a population as large as that of England and that in area it was as large as Germany, with a culture, tradition and civilization of its own, and that it could well constitute an independent nation.
It was reported that E.V.R met Jinnah and that "he discussed with him the possibilities of joint action by parties opposed to Congress". Later speaking at Madras E.V.R. referred to his meeting with Jinnah and said that "there need not be fear among any one that they have entered into some alliance". At the Lahore session of the Muslim League in March 1940, a resolution was passed demanding that "areas where Muslims were numerically in a majority as in the north-western and eastern zones of India, should be grouped to constitute an independent state in which the constituent units would be autonomous and sovereign".
From the time of the passing of the Lahore resolution the relationship between the Justice Party and the Muslim League became more intimate. Since the founding of the Justice Party, Muslim members had taken an active part in it for according to the definition of the term 'Non-Brahmins' given by the Justice Party, Muslims were included along with Christians and Hindu non-Brahmins. On the other hand the Muslims, forming a small fraction of the population in the Tamil districts, found a friendly ally in the Justice Party in opposing the Congress party. This alignment was further strengthened when the two parties began to demand separate states from the proposed Indian Federation to be formed after the departure of the British.
At a joint meeting of the Justice Party and the Muslim League at Madura, Justice Party members suggested that they must seek Jinnah's help in achieving a Dravidian State. A. Ponnambalanar, a leader of the Self-Respect Movement and the Justice Party, announced that Jinnah had promised E.V.R. that he would tour Tamil districts for a month in April or May 1940 and support the demands for a Dravidanad. Speaking at Erode in support of Jinnah's partition scheme, E.V.R. said:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â "Mr Jinnah's scheme for a separate state for the Muslims in India is to be viewed as the sanest way of settling the baffling Hindu-Muslim problem.... Mr Jinnha's proposal for a partition of India as Muslim India and Hindu India has not come as a surprise to me for I have been urging for the separation of Dravidanad from the rest of India for the last twenty years."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
C.N. Annadurai, then organising secretary of the Justice Party, was critical of the view held by many politicians and scholars that the idea of a separate sovereign state for Dravidians was copies from the example of the Muslim League's demand for Pakistan.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It was pointed out that it was chronologically wrong as well to say that E.V.R copied the idea from the Muslim League for the Lahore session of the Muslim League was held in March 1940 whereas the Justice Party Confederation in which E.V.R. put forward his demand for a separate Tamilnad was held at Madras in December 1938.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At the fifth Coimbatore District Justice Party Conference held at Erode in April 1940, a resolution was passed stating that the demand for separate national units proposed at the Lahore session of the Muslim League had been caused by the fear and distrust created in the minds of all non-Congress people by the twenty-seven month's Congress regime, and the Government was requested to consider the necessity of the separation of Dravidanad from the rest of India when such a partition takes place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Support of M.A.Jinnah for Dravidanad...
Since the Lahore session of the Muslim League in which the demand for a separate Muslim State was put forward, the Justice Party began to work closely with the Muslim League in the Tamil Districts in order to derive mutual strength for their demand of a separate Dravidanad. Speaking at the Muslim League Conference at Ambur, North Arcot District, E.V.R. said that at that critical time non-Brahmins could look for help only from one quarter and that was from Mr Jinnah. He appealed that all communities should give Jinnah unqualified support and strengthen his hand.
The Governor also noted the close alliance between the Justice Party and the Muslim League and in a report referred to the address of E.V.R. at the South Arcot District Muslim League Conference supporting the Pakistan scheme and urging the partition of South India in favour of the Dravidians. In another report the Governor pointed out the close alliance between the Muslim League and Justice Party in Municipal politics which enabled them to get a majority on the Madras City Council.
The 28th Annual session of the All-India Muslim League Conference was held in Madras in April 1941. In his presidential address Jinnah discussed the two-nation theory and referred to the demand for the recognition of a third nation - Dravidastan - in South India. <b>He promised his "fullest sympathy" an "fullest support to the non-Brahmins."</b>
The support extended by Jinnah to the demand for a separate Dravidanad added strength to the Justice Party and to E.V.R. personally. In terminology the word 'Dravidastan' was coined as a counterpart to 'Pakistan'. Speaking at a Justice Party meeting in Madras, E.V.R. said that the visit of Jinnah to Madras had created an awakening among Tamilians, and that it would be of great mutual help if Tamilians and Muslim Leaguers worked together to achieve their object.
When the Second World War spread to different parts of the world and the position of the allies became more critical by the middle of 1941, E.V.R. announced at a meeting in Madura that it had been decided to temporarily stop their agitation for Dravidastan so that they could concentrate on war efforts. Besides the demands put forward in meetings for a Dravidanad there was hardly any kind of agitation such as the one staged against Hindi. Hence E.V.R.'s announcement that the agitation was being suspended in view of the intensity of war had no relevance and in fact he continued to advocate the Dravidanad demand in public meetings as before. In May 1942, C.R. announced his formula conceding the principle of Pakistan. E.V.R. speaking at Erode criticised C.R. for nourishing the hope that he would be able to form a National Government in the Madras Presidency and said that just as he conceded Pakistan to Muslims he should "come to terms with the majority community" in South India.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dravidanad Separation Conference at Conjeevaram in June 1940...
Speaking at Ootacamund, E.V.R. said that he was convinced that India would never become a nation as the interests of one community were against those of others and that therefore it would serve no useful purpose by compelling these numerous interests to joint together. He added that they should be allowed a separate existence, and that the Aryans had no right to compel them (the Dravidians) to accept a certain political formula because they did not belong to Tamilnad.
<b>He stated that the Aryans "like the Jews" had come to Tamilnad "only to exploit the Dravidians."</b> At Kumbakonam, E.V.R. again argued that the separation of Dravidanad from the rest of India was a historical and racial necessity, that Aryans and Dravidians had never mixed and that they had continued to live separately and the cultures of the two races could never meet. It may not be fully correct to say that the two cultures had never mingled over the centuries for in the process of caste mobilization the fusion had taken place from early times.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After the failure of the Cripps Mission Gandhi demanded the "orderly and timely British withdrawal from India" and gave the slogan 'Quit India' in April 1942. C.N. Annadurai characterised Gandhi's 'Quit India' campaign against the British as "a huge hoax" and added that, in case the campaign met with any measure of success, Tamils would instantly start a vigorous 'Quit Aryans' propaganda, to rid Dravidanad of the Aryans. He added that the need of the hour was to press home to the people that Dravidians were not Hindus, and that there would be no lasting peace in the country unless India was divided into three main parts, namely, "Pakistan, Aryastan (or Hindustan) and Dravidastan".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The choice of E.V.R. as the leader of the Justice Party in the wake of the Anti-Hindi agitation led to the fusion of the Self-Respect Movement and the Justice Party. As a result anti-Brahminism and communalism once again became basic ideologies in party politics and the demand for a separate Dravidanad was mainly based on these ideologies. The creation of Dravidanad as a separate sovereign state continued to be the main object of the Dravidar Kazhagam and its offshoot the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (founded in 1949) till 1963 when the Indian Constitution was amended specially to make a demand for secession a criminal act, and since then the demand was given up.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.tamilnation.org/books/Politic...atesan.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->May be if someone interested in knowing about the so called 'Dravida Kazhaham' and their paramparyam. Read the bood 'The other side of EVR'
If anyone living at chennai could reach this place easly i presume.
Available at:
M Venkatesan,
3, V R Pillai Theru,
Hanumanthapuram,
Thiruvallikkeni,
Chennai â 600 005.
Price: Rs. 40.
First edition: Nov 2004.
---------------
Viswamitraâs introduction to âThe other side of E V Ramasamy Naickerâ written by M Venkatesan. Tamil to English translation by âroldgoldâ.
I had an opportunity to read the book titled, âThe other side of E V Ramasamy Naickerâ, published recently. This book has been published by âAll
India Forward Blocâ. The author M Venkatesan belongs to Madurai.
âWhen you see the title, you will get a feeling that, this must have been written by a Brahmin. That is wrong. I belong to a backward communityâ is the opening line. In this book, there are many rare details.
The author lists the reasons for writing this book as:
âFirst, I was thinking about EV Ramasamy Naicker as:
1. EVR strived for the Tamil language
2. He served the downtrodden
3. He voiced for womenâs liberation
4. He never lied; always consistent
With these impressions, I read many books about him. I read all the books of âPeriyar Self-Respect Propaganda Publicationsâ.
In addition, I also read the exposure of EV Ramasamy Naicker, by his contemporaries, M P Sivagnanam, P Jivanandam, TP Minakshi Sundaram, U Muthuramalingathevar, KAP Viswanatham, Kamarajar, Pavanar, etc.
As a result, I realized that EVR behaved in a manner that is exactly opposite to what the people of Tamil Nadu believe today.
The followers of EVR have shown only one side of him and they have hidden the other side. As a true son of India, I consider it my duty to bring to light what they hid.
After reading this book, even if one blind follower of âDravida kazagamâ accepts that I have written the truth, to come out of the illusion, I would have succeeded in my efforts.â
The above is the introduction for this book.
EV Ramasamy Naickerâs hatred to Tamil language,
Lies in Islam on castes,
EVRâs bogus anti-God policy,
âTellingâ and âDoingâ were always at the opposite,
Twisted history,
Did EVR strive for the downtrodden?
Vaikom agitation â EVRâs lies and Gandhiâs role,
EVRâs âSuperior maleâ mentality,
EVR without patriotism,
Masiammaiâs lies and superstitions in later days,
Follower Veeramaniâs contradictions and superstitions.
are many captions the author Venkatesan uses to prove his points.
In Appendix, there are additions in the title, âThese about EVRâ, with views expressed on public meetings by Muthuramalingathevar, Linguist TP Minakshisundaram, Kamarajar and Jivanandam,
Let us see some interesting parts from the first chapter titled, âEV Ramasamy Naickerâs hatred to Tamil languageâ.
âEVR lived and behaved like a Tamilian, but his mother tongue was âKannadamâ. Yes, the language in his house was only Kannadam. He was very proud to advertise in his speeches and writings that he was a Kannadian â (Dr MP Sivagnanamâs book â Other language people in Tamil Nadu). With this piece of information, the first chapter starts.
WAS EVR A TAMILIAN?
âEV Ramasamy Naicker was a Tamilian. He struggled for the Tamil languageâ is a âfalse imageâ his bootlickers were creating. They are doing it even today. But, do you know how the the so-called âTamil Leaderâ, introduced himself? âKannappar is a Telungar. I am a Kannadian. Annadurai is a Tamilianâ (Periyar EVR thoughts â first part) and âI belong to the Karnatak Balijawar casteâ (Kudiyarasu 22/8/1926) are the ways in which he introduces himself.â
The man who proudly proclaimed as âI am a Kannadianâ is continuously referred to as âTamilianâ and âTamil leaderâ. He not only said, âI am a Kannadianâ, but also criticized the âTamil languageâ and âTamil poetsâ a lot.
This is what EVR says in the book, âTamil language and Tamil peopleâ:
âIn todayâs Tamil world, some Tamil poets names keep appearing frequently. They are: 1.Tholkappiyan, 2.Thiruvalluvan, 3.Kamban. Of these,
1. Tholkappiyan was an Aryan servant. The traitor gave as grammar all of âArya Dharmaâ.
2. Thiruvalluvan, without bothering about âpaguththarivuâ, dominated by his own religious feelings supporting âAryan thoughtsâ offered something as âscripturesâ.
3. Kamban, like todayâs politicians and patriots, used his Tamil knowledge in favor of anti-Tamil pappans, so proved himself as a money minded Tamil traitor. He is a total liar. Total fraud. He imagined himself to be a âpappanâ, and offered thoughts even a pappan would hesitate to offer. Thus, this traitor pushed the Tamils down permanently.
All these three supported âcastesâ and âcaste based jobsâ.
In Kudiyarasu dated 20/1/1929, he wrote further about Thiruvalluvar as:
âWe can see many things supporting Gods like Indran, Bramma and Vishnu and Arya religious practices and superstitions such as Reincarnation, Heaven, Hell, Upper world, Souls, Devas, etc.â
These are his views about the great Tamil poets. Were Tholkaapiyar, Kambar and Valluvar traitors? Good description! If, as creators of âTamil grammarâ and âTamil Literatureâ, they earn the name âtraitorsâ, as the one who insulted the language, is EVR not a traitor?
There are many such points with âpublication supportâ. The Appendix carrying the speeches of many patriots is a âgold-mineâ of rare information. In this, the speech by Pasumpon Muthuramalingathevar, delivered in a public meeting on 1957 Feb 21 at Kancheepuram is something special. Venkatesan has repeated the great speech by Pon Muthuramalingathevar, for whom bhakthi to âGodâ and âMotherlandâ were two eyes.
Pasumpon Muthuramalingathevarâs speech:
âThere is a group contesting the elections with the call, âTamil love is important; Tamil Nadu must liveâ. It is essential to have love for Tamil. But, see how these fellows display their love? In their meetings, they keep telling, âNorth Indians, South Indians; North land, South landâ and attempt to divide us. They say, the next meeting is at âJinnah Parkâ. The one after that is at âRobinson Parkâ. They have no problem using these names.
At the same time, if it is going to be in âTilak Ghatâ, they get angry to use his name. They say, âNorth Indian ---- Father groundâ.
(Sarcastically, Thevar, switches to English):
In what way Jinnah is not a North Indian? How is the names Jinnah and Robinson so sweet to you Sir? How is the name of poor Tilak so bitter to you Sir? I am not able to understand.
This exposes that you came from âJustice Partyâ whose primary job was bootlicking the Whites. Further, these fellows say that, âNorth Indian, swindles Dravidian land. North Indian name must not be here. If present, we will agitate to change itâ. Very happy.
You agitated to change the name âDalmiapuramâ. But, you did nothing to change âHarvypattiâ. Why not? Whiteâs name can be there. That will make you happy. But, you will want the name âDalmiapuramâ to go. Will any fellow with sense agree?
In Harvey mill, Soundara Pandiyanâs family has stocks. He is a founding father of DMK. So, your party wonât get money, if you ask for the name to be changed. So, it will be pointless to hide the truth from the Tamils, by harping about the language. Understand this. This is the secret.
In addition, they keep shouting âDravida naduâ. How dare you ask for this? If you had fought for freedom from the British, by fighting along with the people when the Britishers were keeping us as slaves, we may say, you qualify to ask for this.
How can you demand âDravida naduâ today when we were fighting for independence, you took money from the British and conducted âwar propagandaâ in their favor? Like the âsecret agreementâ that resulted in the formation of Pakistan, you may also be the âfifth columnistâ for the Whites. We are not mad to be cheated like that.
âWe want Tamil. No to Hindiâ, is what they say. In the 1937 anti-Hindi agitation, I told Rajagopalachariyarâs ministry, not to impose Hindi. This is history. âIf our party comes to power, we will have the name âTamil Stateâ. We are not against removing the name âResiduary Madras Stateâ. But, by misusing the Tamil language name and posing as preserver of Tamil peopleâs rights, if you are going to bring in âagitation to spoil Tamil Cultureâ and âatheism in the name of creating a rift between, Brahmins and non-Brahminsâ, we wonât allow.
How do you protect non-Brahmins, by writing stories like âRomapuri Raniâ? By writing such stories, how many school boys have you spoiled? In addition to âRomapuri Raniâ, you have also written âThangaiyin Kadhalâ, in which you have written that, âa brother falls in love with his sisterâ.
Next, why canât the son marry the mother? What else? Is this, Tamil culture?
My request to all of you is not to support these parties which will ruin the lives of school going children thereby take our country in the path of destruction.
*** Speech ended.
This book is a nice documentation of many such frauds perpetrated by the Dravidian parties. All those who rush to learn about the other side of Tamil Nadu politicians, must necessarily read âThe other side of EVRâ.
RV<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Periyar Legatees
By Chandrabhan Prasad
23 September, 2004
The Pioneer
"We feared the Brahmin, and yielded extra space to Muslims. We are facing
the consequences today. It's like that proverb: Fearing the dung, we have
stepped on sh1t," Periyar said.
"If sahibs (meaning Muslims) get proportionate representation and the
Scheduled Castes get representation in jobs and education and if the rest of
the slots are monopolised by Brahmins, O Shudra, what will be your future",
said Periyar.
"The reasons why Tamilians are suffering is because the Brahmins,
Christians, Muslims and others claim themselves to be Tamil", he added.
On the eve of 125th birth anniversary of Periyar E V Ramasamy, a debate is
raging in the Tamil country, with the new age Dalit intelligentsia taking up
the task of exposing Periyar's social engineering. The above quotes are
cited by Pondicherry-based Dalit intellectual Ravikumar, who refers to
"Periyar E V R Sinthanaigal" - Vol. I, II, III, edited by Anaimuthu.
Ravikumar's full text is available at www.outlookindia.com.
North Indian Dalits, in their celebration of Periyar, invoke his one liner:
"Islam offers a good cure for humiliation and oppression". Periyar's
'conversion' thesis was at best a "blackmail", and lacked conviction.
Periyar was quick to explain: "I am not defending Islam, nor am I
propagating it. This is the truth, the only truth. I have no greater love,
friendship, trust or cooperation with or for Muslims than I have for you."
Periyar's deep hatred toward minorities is well-known. In a statement titled
"Minority Community", Periyar says: "If people who are a minority in terms
of population, in terms of religion, or in terms of culture, control power
and wield authority, it will be disastrous for that nation", page 46, Vol.
I. He makes special reference to Brahmins and Muslims. The DMK, MDMK, and
AIADMK, legatees of Periyar's movement, had no 'ideological hesitation' in
aligning with the BJP, as Periyar's "minority" vision is in consonance with
the BJP's. One could argue the Dravidian parties' alliance with BJP was
propelled more by political than 'ideological'compulsions . If one was short
of information, the 'political compulsion' theory could have worked. But, S
Anand's interview with Veeramani clears the mist.
Veeramani is a well known name in Tamil Nadu, and remains an undisputed
flag-bearer of Periyar. He is president of the Dravidar Kazhagam [DK], a
non-political outfit founded by Periyar himself in 1944, from which DMK and
AIADMK have sprung.
Veeramani tells Anand: "There lies the secret of Periyar's success. The
impact of Periyar's was such that, it has crossed the boundaries of the
State. It has reached UP. It has gone to Bihar, Delhi, even to Madhya
Pradesh. You take Uma Bharati. She may be with BJP, but basically, she
belongs to backward caste, and she is a woman". When Anand asks: "So does
this mean the DK owns up Uma Bharati"?
Replies Veeramani: "No, no. I am only giving an example. When Kalyan Singh
came out of the BJP, what was his identity? That he was a backward class
man...a Lodha. Whether he believes in caste or not, he wants to exploit it.
What is the spark for all this? The spark is from Tamil Nadu. It is from
Periyar". The full text of Veeramani interview is available at
www.outlookindia.com
Thus what Veeramani suggests is that, the OBCs/Shudras replace Brahmans from
power structure, irrespective of ideology or political platform. This is
what the Periyar's entire social engineering was: "that the majority
Shudra/OBCs must take over India's political power structure, wealth,
institutions, etc", the Brahmans, the Dalit / Tribals / Minorities must be
subject, or prajas in Hindi, which is a more of linguistic evil than a
language.
On Periyar's 125th birth anniversary, Dalit intellectuals of Tamil Nadu are
engaged in serious re-thinking on Periyar, who is fast emerging a social
villain. Now, Dalits in Tamil Nadu are taking pride in distancing themselves
from the Dravidian movement. Periyar while ridiculing Dalit leaders, once
commented: "Asking the government for jobs, education, duties, huts, and
housing; and seeking from the Mirasadars (big land lords) two extra measures
of paddy will not help in any way". He even ridiculed Dr. Ambedkar as "a
north Indian who succumbed to the Congress". According to Ravikumar:
"Periyar was just anti-Brahman, and not anti-caste". Dalits must be aware
that the most celebrated Periyar followers can take pride in celebrating Uma
or Kalyan Singh, as politics is all about power, ideologies can be just
pretensions.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The greatness of Islam
PERIYAR E.V. RAMASWAMY
The reason behind the hatred of the Hindus towards the Muslims today is
their hatred of Islam itself. Because Islam is contrary to the Aryan
religion (Hinduism), the Hindus (Aryans) hate Islam. It is contrary because
Islam demolishes the very foundation of the Hindu religion. (p.15) The
Brahmin has made us all enemies of Islam (p.17)
Indignant comrades. The Shudra-label will not go by merely consigning the
Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and Ithihasas to fire. It will not again go by
demolishing temples and breaking up idols. The Brahmin knows how to turn all
these to his own advantage just as the way dosa is turned on the pan
.
HOW TO KILL HINDUISM
The shudra-tag will not go by merely calling oneself Dravidian. In today's
context, it will not go even if you declare that you are not a Hindu. The
Hindu religion will not disappear lightly. It is like a chameleon that won't
die easily. To kill it, our own life span, why the life span of our
grandchildren also is not enough. So what is possible within our own
lifetime is, to move away form the Hindu religion.
Why such bitterness and anger at the mention of Islam? Be first clarified as
to why such sweetness and satisfaction at the mention of Hindu. In the
alternative, suggest a way to abolish in your own lifetime the contemptible
shudra-tag. I have stated my thoughts, you state yours. Wasting time in
endless argument and counter-argument and useless gossips, are we to die and
leave our progeny also as shudra?
CRITICISING ISLAM HELPS BRAHMINS
If we so die, it will only profit the Brahmin for our progeny would offer
him holy dates and worship him as divinity; and he would see to it that such
a process would not end soon; instead he would bring about dissensions and
riots among us. Therefore think, and please do so deeply and in anxiety.
Moving away from the fanaticism of attachment to the Aryan religion, think
from the position of attachment to self-respect; do not get provoked. If the
issue is left without any thoughtful conclusion, Islam and Hinduism and the
people of both the religions will clash in which the loss, beatings and
death all are for the Dravidians only. The Brahmin not only will not lose
anything but there is income in it for him, in the court of this world, fees
and bribe and in that of the next, holy dates and other orthodox rituals.
Through what else except these the Aryans today are living and maintaining
themselves in such high status on the one hand and on the other have
degraded us devising laws and Shastras, which condemn us as his slaves,
progeny of his concubines. Therefore think once again. (p.18).
STRENGTH OF MUSLIMS
Aren't you ashamed? Is it fair? You write to me letters threatening that my
suggestion to become Muslim has turned the youth against me. Whether right
or wrong, since I am firm in my resolve, whatever is the consequence, even
if it is death, I will endure and die without any complaint but with full
mental satisfaction.
Rajagopalacharyar, the intellectual who having given up many good things of
life is really labouring in public life in never-ceasing mental anxiety, all
these men are celebrated by people now; but tomorrow or after several years
when they will be no more, what else would they leave behind except own
autobiographies in order to point out their achievement particularly on your
behalf?
Raja Sir Annamalai has ten crores of rupees, Birla, forty cores, the Sultan
of Hyderabad four hundred crores; Gandhi has publicity across the world and
the Acharyar is known as the intellectual all over India, except for such
fame and name what particular respect do they command? In the same way you
think about your Hindu religion also. With the departure of the White man,
what has changed for you? The actual debasement and the stumbling blocks,
have they disappeared? Consider the Muslims, at the departure of the
Whiteman, they got Pakistan, but for you there is only Shudrasthan.
Therefore, if you listen to me, how much you stand to benefit, what
greatness for your progeny and how much satisfaction for me. (p.20)
Until recently I have been preaching now for a period of about twenty years
that those who are desirous of removing untouchability and the status of
untouchables, but to become Muslims and I made those communities also accept
the idea. In Kerala (Travancore and Cochin) too, from 1924 to 1925 I
preached among the Malayali Ezhavas and the other so-called Untouchables and
made them accept this. Having agreed to this and passing resolutions to that
effect in their conferences, about a total of 200 or 3000 people here and
about 600 or 700 in Kerala have embraced Islam and since then their
degenerate status gradually being removed, rights being granted, the
situation is successful, nearing even to the solution of their problem. The
right to enter temples in Trivandrum and the right to proportionate
representation in Cochin came about due to what, Islam or Hindu dharma?(p.
21).
Next, even in those days, Mohammad Nabi had forcefully condemned
idol-worship. On this he was quite insistent: "Muslims should not worship
idols, anyone who does so worship is not a Muslim at all". To such an extent
he condemned idol-worship that he has made his followers also hate it. This
also is a highly praiseworthy and appreciable thing, besides being a great
teaching for our people to follow, I would say.
Apart from these things, Mohammad Nabi has said one more important thing.
Among his teachings, attention is to be paid in particular to this, what he
has said is this: In whatever I have said, if you have any doubt,
investigate the matter using your own reasoning. (p.24)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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