The roots of Muslim anger in India
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HG15Df01.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is tempting to view the bloody bombings in Mumbai, like those in London and Madrid, as part of the "war on terror". But the situation in India is more complex. Islamism, as it's usually perceived, has not taken root - yet. But organized pogroms against Muslims could provide a stimulus<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Something as horrendous as the Gujarat riots of 2002 had no parallel in India's modern history. Even more fearsome is the reality that the BJP-led government in Gujarat connived in the mindless violence let loose against the Muslim community in the form of organized pogroms. Needless to say, Muslim community's response to these "stimuli" has assumed militant features.
The forces of Hindu fundamentalism and the weakened Indian state organs are creating a breeding ground for militancy. The recurrence of anti-Muslim pogroms in Gujarat two months ago has once again shown that the BJP government, with the forthcoming provincial assembly elections in view, is stoking the fires of religion. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at the rubbish, he is talking as if Gujarat riots were the ultimate horror when infact Congress goons let loose a much bigger orgy on Sikhs and where was he when under Congress rule Muslims were massacred in Nellie?
Organised progroms are what Muslims do to Hindus, they plot and burn Hindus to death (as in Godhra) and when Hindus react once in a bluemoon it will be used an excuse for the next hundred years to justify every terrorist attack, it's these p-sec Hindu traitors that are our biggest enemy.
Here is another article spewing the same nonsense:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HG13Df02.html
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Spineless is trying to shift blame by using ABV's foreign hand theory. Probably they contacted the Pakis to help them out by not responding too vehamently to these wild accusations. Blaming Pak is well-worked strategy. First ofcourse, it absolves the indian govt of any incompetence as pakis have been exporting terrorism for a while, even during the NDA govt which means BJP cannot bring up the law&order issue. Secondly and more importantly, it means that indian muslims are not involved and therefore POTA repeal did not encourage our local terrorists.
Will this strategy work?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Blasts supported by cross border elements: PMÂ
Agencies | Mumbai
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today said the terrorists behind the Tuesday's serial blasts here were "supported by elements across the border".
Without the support from elements across the border, the terrorists would not have been able to carry out strikes with such an effect, he told a press conference here.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Peace process requires end of terrorism: PM
Agencies | Mumbai
Without taking any country's name, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today said the serial blasts in Mumbai were carried out by terrorists with support from across the border, and warned Pakistan that it would be "exceedingly difficult" to carry forward the peace process if it did not control terrorist elements operating from its territory.
"I have explained it to the Government of Pakistan at the highest level that if the acts of terrorism are not controlled, it is exceedingly difficult for any Government to carry forward what may be called as normalisation and peace process," he told a press conference here after a three-hour visit to the city rocked by Tuesday's blasts in trains that killed about 200 people.
"We are also certain that these terror modules are instigated, inspired and supported by elements across the border without which they cannot act with such devastating effects," he said.
Asked whether talks on confidence-building measures with Pakistan will continue, Singh said, "Pakistan, in 2004, had solemnly given an assurance that Pakistani territory will not be used to promote, encourage, aid and abet terrorist elements directed against India.
"That assurance has to be fulfilled before the peace process or other processes can make progress," he said.
Noting that the terrorists were intending to destroy India's economic strength, unity and communal harmony, he asserted, "We cannot allow this to happen." Earlier, Singh visited hospitals where those injured in the blasts are being treated and met top officials of Maharashtra state Government. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
atimes is love marriage between Paki and Chini.
The atimes article is written by
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->M K Bhadrakumar served as a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service for over 29 years, with postings including India's ambassador to Uzbekistan (1995-1998) and to Turkey (1998-2001). <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Out of work diplomat looking for a good posting by blaming BJP for this terrorism?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->First ofcourse, it absolves the indian govt of any incompetence as pakis have been exporting terrorism for a while, even during the NDA govt which means BJP cannot bring up the law&order issue. Secondly and more importantly, it means that indian muslims are not involved and therefore POTA repeal did not encourage our local terrorists.
Will this strategy work?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very dangerous strategy and gross incompetence. Whatever nasty we can say about NDA or Advani, but few thing he was doing right.
<b>NDA</b>
Positive
1) First time made aware that there is home grown Islamic terrorist in India.
2) Banned SIMI.
3) Bring Madrasa funding under Govt monitoring
4) POTA
5) Increased numbers of encounters
6) Intelligence apparatus was used to identify criminals and terrorist cells
7) Formed better coordination between local and National Intelligence.
8) Striking funding of terrorist whether it was Kashmiri or rest of Muslims, Hawala was heavily monitored, able to capture lot Kashmiri big wig with money scandal.
Negative
1) After every attack immediately named Pakistan, but never named local involvement openly
2) Two much stress on Dawood, made him a hero for some.
3) Unable to destroy Gangs in Bombay or UP or Bihar
4) Khandar hijacking
5) Did not punished Pakistan after attack on army residential complex.
<b>Now UPA</b>
Positive-
1) Smile, as if every thing is going fine. No anxiety attack to some.
2) Happy days for p-sec
Negative
1) POTA in cold storage
2) Intelligence is used to monitor opposition or own party members
3) More rights or freedom to Madarsa and Mullah
4) Pakistan peace process without evaluation.
5) Encounters stopped
6) Dismantled groups which were monitoring gangs.
7) Kashmir is out of control
8) Hawala is out of control
9) Foreign funding is out of control..
LSrini,
NDA must have refused his extention.
These jokers blame 5 years for every sin but forget rest of 50years of misrule.
<b>Congress panel discusses post 7/11 situation</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The meeting of the Congress Core Group was held soon after the Prime Minister's return from Mumbai where he said it would be <b>extremely difficult to go ahead with the peace process with Pakistan</b>.
The two-hour-meeting was also significant as it came ahead of the <b>Prime Minister's visit to Russia next week to attend the G-8 meeting.</b>
Sonia and other party leaders also utilised the opportunity to <b>take stock of the situation in the wake of the halt to the process of disinvestment </b>by the Government following the row of over offloading of equity in Neyvelli divestment issue, sources said<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now you see what is important for government.
Stay in power and keep every joker in coalition happy.
Who cares 200 plus dead and 100 injured?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Congress to blame </b>
The Pioneer Edit Desk
It helped SIMI recover and regroup ---- It is entirely possible that when the Congress contested the Tamil Nadu Assembly election in alliance with dubious organisations like the Tamil Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam, its political managers were not aware of their antecedents. It is also possible that local Congress politicians in Chennai knew of the company kept by such communal organisations but they chose not to share the information with the party's central leadership. And, it is equally possible that Congress leaders in both New Delhi and Chennai struck a deal with the TMMK and similar organisations fully aware of their credentials, allowing political expediency to ride roughshod over national interest. In any event, given the Congress's strange addiction to a perverse notion of secularism that makes its leaders embrace those who espouse and promote Islamic fundamentalism and are at ease with jihad's blood-soaked consequences, it is only to be expected that the party which presumes to rule India as head of the UPA regime should have no compunctions about supping with the devil. As exposed by this paper on Friday, the electoral alliance that the Congress struck with the TMMK was in spite of the fact that the organisation had been named in the ban order on the Students Islamic Movement of India. Ironically, the order was issued by the UPA Government in February this year, renewing a ban it had allowed to lapse in September 2006 for reasons best known to those who are pressing the alarm bell following the Mumbai bombings, asking State Governments to crack down on SIMI. An attempt is being made to convey the impression that while the UPA Government acted against SIMI in February, State Governments have not been sufficiently tough with this Islamist organisation. That is bunkum. The Prime Minister and his Home Minister owe an explanation to the nation as to why the ban imposed on SIMI on September 27, 2001, by the NDA Government was allowed to lapse, allowing the anti-national organisation to regroup and re-energise its cadre who are wedded to Osama bin Laden's criminal ideology. Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mulayam Singh Yadav may have gone easy on SIMI for reasons that do not merit elaboration, but that does not absolve the UPA regime of its folly. By letting the ban lapse, and then re-imposing it in the most lackadaisical manner after six months, this regime has helped SIMI sprout fresh poison fangs.
Of course, pushed against the wall for its abysmal failure in protecting India from enemies within and without, an effete Prime Minister and his discredited Government will try to pretend otherwise and claim that they are committed to fighting evil forces represented by SIMI and its clones. That, however, is unlikely to convince many, including drumbeaters of the regime. Look at the pathetic and contemptible manner in which Human Resource Development Minister Arjun Singh tried to make a mockery of the Mumbai bombings by slyly suggesting that Islamists are not to blame for it; earlier, as the nation mourned the massacre by jihadis, he offered quotas to Muslims, rubbing salt into India's freshly bleeding wound. The Prime Minister cannot but be aware of the dangers of having such sinister men in his Cabinet whose sole preoccupation is to plot and scheme against India's nationhood. That he is unable to act against them is comment enough on the authority he wields.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>There were 24 armed fidayeen </b>
Pioneer.com
Pramod Kumar Singh | New Delhi
Conspirators used e-mails, hid behind women ---- <b>The men who planted explosives on Mumbai's train were heavily armed and numbered nearly two dozen. I</b>nvestigations by the security agencies into the 7/11 Mumbai blasts have revealed that the executioners of the plan were ready for a fidayeen encounter with the police in case of any confrontation. Â
<b>Those who executed the plot on that fateful Tuesday had arrived on the scene hours before the strike and are believed to have fled the country soon after the bombs went off</b>, highly placed sources told the Pioneer.
<b>Investigations have revealed the abject failure of the Mumbai Police, which was clueless even as seven groups of heavily armed fidayeen freely entered Churchgate railway station within a short span of time. The fidayeen who planted the explosives in the first class compartments exited unnoticed despite carrying heavy rexine bags stuffed with arms and ammunition.</b>
Security agencies are also worried about the deep penetration of Lashkar-e-Tayyeba (LeT) in Mumbai's suburbs. <b>Local elements were drafted to hoodwink police and intelligence during the preparation of the assault.</b> Sources feel that the terrorists may have also conducted dry runs in Mumbai local trains and they chose Churchgate station due to its holding capacity.
<b>Sources feel that the entire bloody operation was carried out by a group of at least 20 to 24 fidayeen.</b> Investigations have revealed that they were given instructions to retaliate in the event of being challenged. Investigating agencies have come to this conclusion after carrying out an in-depth examination of the crime scene. It has now emerged that women members were also used in the conspiracy.
<b>The presence of women helped the terrorists to camouflage their identities</b>, the sources further said. Looking at the meticulous execution of the blasts, one thing is sure that the preparations for the blasts were made much in advance and the executors arrived on to leave their signatures, intelligence sources said.
The operation to bomb local trains running on the busy Western Line was planned on the lines of al Qaeda's attack on World Trade Centre (WTC), New York. It has now been revealed that the modules did not use cell phones to avoid detection. They instead used e-mail accounts with common passwords. The e-mails were not sent as they accessed the accounts by using the passwords and discussed their plan of action by saving the text in the draft boxes.
Sources said central intelligence agencies and Mumbai Police have come across such e-mail accounts containing operational details of the conspiracy leading to the serial blasts. Hundreds of cyber cafes of Mumbai were placed under the scanner by the agencies for the clues about the terrorists.
During the scanning of thousands of calls made at least 24 hours before and after the blast, special attention was paid to calls made to foreign countries. Emphasis was accorded to identify those who were in Mumbai and were using roaming services.
Sources said <b>the conspirators had stopped using mobile phones for communicating with each other</b>. They did this obviously to avoid detection. Agencies have now trained their attention on those who live in chawls and shanties and are reportedly missing after Tuesday evening.
The only hitch, which is bothering the agencies, is that they are yet to make final sketches of the suspects as there are so many who claim to have seen them.
Evidences at blasts sites are being studied to narrow down the search of the accused, sources added, describing the probe as one of the biggest ever manhunts by the central intelligence agencies. The probe is also focusing on whether the incidents like the recent disturbances at Bhiwandi in Thane district, or the crackdown on SIMI groups in the past few months has anything to do with the blasts, the sources said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damage control in full swing by reddiff:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the common Muslim is scared
http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/14spec.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How come these bastards don't write articles titled "Why the common Hindu and Sikh is scared" after Islamic massacres in Kashmir every year but they have the audacity to write articles titled "Why the common Muslim is scared" or "Why I won't live among Hindus" and similar rubbish. If they are scared they can f*(k themselves and leave for some place where they feel safe, useless bastards.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 14 2006, 04:18 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 14 2006, 04:18 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Damage control in full swing by reddiff:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the common Muslim is scared
http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/14spec.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How come these bastards don't write articles titled "Why the common Hindu and Sikh is scared" after Islamic massacres in Kashmir every year but they have the audacity to write articles titled "Why the common Muslim is scared" or "Why I won't live among Hindus" and similar rubbish. If they are scared they can f*(k themselves and leave for some place where they feel safe, useless bastards.
[right][snapback]53808[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Not only that, some muslim in the article asks why are the naxals and NE terrorists not called "Hindu terrorists" but the kashmir ones are called islamic. Sure, if adi sankara or raghavendra had told hindus to "Slay non-hindus/non-believers as you find them and take away their women and property" and if the naxals are following that, why not. But it is only these barbaric muslims who do that.
Did rediff even try to interview the families of the 200 people who died in these explosions? Of course not, that would make them anti-minority.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 15 2006, 01:48 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 15 2006, 01:48 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Damage control in full swing by reddiff:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the common Muslim is scared
http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/14spec.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How come these bastards don't write articles titled "Why the common Hindu and Sikh is scared" after Islamic massacres in Kashmir every year but they have the audacity to write articles titled "Why the common Muslim is scared" or "Why I won't live among Hindus" and similar rubbish. If they are scared they can f*(k themselves and leave for some place where they feel safe, useless bastards.
[right][snapback]53808[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Statements like this should be treated as act of supporting the terrorist and spread of racial tention. he is endangering the lives of Indians by provoking racial tension. Any one has email address of Mr. Syed Firdaus Ashraf or editor of rediff. I will write a long bamboo for him. Some may argue what is writing a letter gona do? I say, more than not writing a letter. Any one with email addreses?? Any one? It seems this guys is the Paki mole. read his other articles. He must go down.
Any one knows waht is sudarshan TV showing this days. we should bring guys like this on sudershan tv and grill them good.
In reply to post 13
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Despite its detractors' most prejudiced and patently false opinion, Vishwa Hindu Parishad has been doing excatly what you have suggested, which is convince and has been doing this for close to fifty years.
The vaccum in its membership, influence, support, educatation is glaring(even in the Hindi heartland where it was born). Perhaps I was being immoderate by attributing this lack of success to self-flagellation. Whatever reason (dhimmitude, limitless getpragmatism, callousness, I dont know), but unifying Hindus for whatever reason - even the threat of extinction - is simply a false dream to pursue.
Maybe I am just too crestfallen pal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Utepian,
I know the kind of "convincing" carried out by the VHP. They along with the RSS do more harm than good in this instance. Their position is "Islam is a great religion, Mohammed is a great Prophet, but the Muslims are fools." So the question arises why don't we convince Muslims to follow their "great" religion?. These people don't have an answer for it. Guruji Gowalkar used to praise Islam as being as good as his own religion. Here is Guruji Gowalkar in his own words at Bangalore in November, 1965:
"So that bedrock of Ultimate Reality can join us all together. It does not belong to any one religion. On this account everyone can accept this as common basis. Religion is only a way of worship. This basic faith is not a mere way of worship. This is a philosophical understanding of the universe. The God of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism is thus the same and we are all His devotees."
"Let our Muslims here say that they belong to this land and that the past aggressors and their aggressions are not part of their heritage."
"I am an optimist and feel that Hinduism and Islam will learn to live with each other."
In his book Bunch of Thoughts, Guruji does identify the crimes of Muslims, but does not connect them to Islam:
"Our leaders, were therefore faced with the problem of weaning these people away form their hostile mood and bringing them to the patriotic ranks. There was a very rational and patriotic way of approach. That was to tell them frankly: "Dear friends, the days of old Moghul Badshahi have passed. Now both of us will have to live ultimately as brothers here, as co-sharers in this national life. After all, you also belong to the same race as ours, to the same blood of ours, but converted to Islam at the point of sword by those Moghul, Turk and other foreign races. Now, there is no point in your continuing to associate yourself mentally with those foreign aggressors and trying to follow in their footsteps. Forget all such separatist memories, merge yourself in the life of this soil. Hereafter try to respect and follow the examples of the great sons of this land who fought for the freedom and honour of our motherland and our culture."
The Sangh's position has not changed from that of Guruji Gowalkar. Many people of RSS and VHP say similar things or worse (Remember Dattopant Thengdi giving example of Mohammed as a generous person). Assuming you are in India, visit your local RSS shakha or talk to an acharya of the VHP, you will get more of the same, not to mention their fetishes of finding "nationalist muslims" (whatever that means), and trying to get "secular" certificates from the wrong sort of people.
Here are my favourite quotes from VHP/RSS during the Ayodhya movement: "Allah doesn't accept prayers at a disputed site" and "Islam doesn't allow taking someone else's palce of worship".
Do the above quotes show any comprehension of Islam?
I don't believe in their approach of sugarcoating the truth (if they are aware of it at all). That kind of "convincing" confuses our people or turns them off.
It's the same MF who wrote the article "Why I won't live among Hindus", why is he still living in India if he doesn't want to live among Hindus, why doesn't he just f*(k off and stop leeching off India?
If he wants I would be happy to provide a one way ticket to Pakistan for him, he can move to his promised land that his community wanted and created and he will not have to live among Hindus (unless he goes and sits there in the small Hindu pockets still left in that terrorist state).
First, he is "Ashraf". Second, rediff is part of HT. Both are Congress lickers. Third, he is connected with Ahmed Patel, Sonia's political sectary.
Together they are working towards Muslim exclusive club in India.
Ashraf's still live in Mughal fantasy and exotic days.
If he can't live with Hindus, he should leave ASAP to the exclusive land created for people like him, where they are called Muhajir.
07-15-2006, 08:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2006, 10:04 AM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the common Muslim is scared<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Isn't it obvious why they are scared? Pakistan is a failure: economic, intellectual (who could have predicted such a drastic drop in IQ), social, structural, political.
The common Muslim in India, at least subconsciously, realises that the option of moving to Pakistan/Bangladesh is entirely out of the question, it is better to face riots in India (and write articles like 'Why the common muslim is scared') than face the total failure of an existing Indian-Muslim country. Everyone knows that their life in India is far better than it would be in Pakistan. Imagine that at present they'd rather be a minority in India than a majority in Pakistan. And it's not because they like being close to Hinduism and living with a Kafir majority.
However, he/she doesn't realise that Islam is the cause of the failure (proof: Hindus are also Indian and India is doing well). Therefore, Indian Muslims are willing to try the same again in India: by trying to make India an Islamic country in accordance with the Jihad that their Koran commands them to carry out.
But make no mistake, Mughalistan will eventually run itself down (after the results of Hindu influence and Hindu accomplishments are gone) and be no different from Afghanistan or Pakistan. And Bangladesh, even in its present pathetic state, is only slightly better off due to its incomplete Islamic character.
Muslims ought to understand, no Muslim nation in this world will be a paradise. Perhaps that's why they take refuge in believing that death during Jihad will take them to paradise.
07-15-2006, 08:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2006, 09:02 AM by Husky.)
Post 31 (LSrini):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->some muslim in the article asks why are the naxals and NE terrorists not called "Hindu terrorists" but the kashmir ones are called islamic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't naxals communists? And NE terrorists are Christian. That would make both groups anti-Hindu. Muslims even in India must have a very low IQ if they feel the need to ask such questions.
Besides, the Kashmiri terrorists are Islamic. Their groups have Muslim names, they shout Muslim slogans, they train in Islamic brainwashing 'schools' (madrasas), their demands are made in the name of Islam and Allah, and finally, they're all made up of Muslims - not communists, not Christians (who've already got terrorism covered in the NE) and not Hindus.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't naxals communists? And NE terrorists are Christian. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In Assam there are some Hindu Asamese who feel threatened by large scale ethnic non -Assamese,mostly Bengali.(both Hindu or otherwise)
However some groups are not opposed to Hindi speaking and Hindu religion affiliated people.Only opposed to Muslim immigration which now happens
Large scale immigration is said to have occured in Assam during British rule
so that cheap labour is realised in tea gradens.
Noteworthy that Assamese did not cause trouble in other parts of country.
Also noteworthy that it is said the problem in Assam is not as acute as being potrayed.
According to Hinduwoman,the cheap labour continues to come even today because the high ranking politicians themselves want it.
Similiarly I have read a claim somewhere that even high ranking politicians
of Delhi hire the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in their houses as they are cheap.
Cannot confirm the source.You are free to believe whatever you want.
07-15-2006, 04:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2006, 04:17 PM by Husky.)
Post 4:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Islamaniacs<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Nice one. Mind if I use that once in a while? If you want, I'll credit you for it.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Hindu trait is not finishing the fight.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You'll find that that trait is common to all people not used to the concept of 'total war'. The pluralistic Romans, despite knowing the intolerant nature of Christianity, did not eradicate it. It then eradicated their way of life. The deconverted Arabians didn't finish off the muslims even after they won the battle in the 'Apostasy War'. The muslims laboured under no such hesitation.
That is the ultimate problem of good which causes its own downfall: it imagines that complete destruction is always wrong, even the complete destruction of evil. Unlike good, evil has no compunctions about complete destruction and when it's not destroyed, it comes back and finishes off all good. Hence, this is what Christianity did to Rome and Islam did to Arabia. Evil utterly won, because when good was in power, it tried to merely keep evil at bay and not nip it in the bud entirely.
That is why the Right thing (what one ought to do) is to destroy evil when one has the opportunity, else it will destroy everything.
And this is also the lesson in the dilemma central to the MahaBharatam. As my grandmother explained it to us: Arjuna (good) doesn't want to kill his cousins and Bhishma etc who are fighting on the side of evil. But his cousins aren't going to come around and Bhisma, having chosen a side, won't budge. If the bad guys win, which they will if the Pandavas neglect their duty (Arjuna throws down his weapons and would rather be killed than fight the other side), then the Kauravas' adharma will rule Bharat hereafter and plunge the entire nation into adharma with subsequent rulers becoming more and more adharmic. Therefore, Krishna tells Arjuna to do the Right thing (even though this means having to fight his family and those he respects): which is to fight those who will give rise to great adharma if they win.
But enough philosophising for today. If the Romans and the Arabians had had the Gita, they'd not have neglected their duty as we have been doing these days.
I suspect it is the fact that we have been oppressed and terrorised for so long (tyrannical Islamic rule, the terror of European Christian imperialism and the horrible British colonial rule following that), that we cannot imagine a life without oppression anymore and think we need to accept it as a permanent part of life. With such a beaten attitude, we cannot expect to take any action.
Another major problem we face is the battle for Hindu minds. For a long time, others - like the British missionaries and Macaulays, the present day Churches with their schools, the communist education and now the more crude Islamic dawaganda - have all contributed to making the Hindu internalise the notion that his religion is not worth protecting, even thinking it is not a force of good, that his way of life is not worth preserving and that in the end it doesn't matter anyway because 'all religions are one'. No they are not. Whether all non-ChristoIslamic religions are one or not, Christianity and Islam (and their unwanted cousin, communism) are utterly different: these two strive for and demand the destruction of all other ways of life. That might not be so bad if the religions themselves didn't lead to a spiritual cesspool. But, far from them being spiritually uplifting, they lead to complete darkness of mind (besides, Christianity has a fetish with abuse and Islam with terrorism; and sometimes also the other way around). We want evolution of spirit, not devolution.
To solve these two problems (defeatist attitude, internalising the propaganda), will require effort in the opposite direction.
- First, the fatalism has to go. In spite of the misery and denigration of historic oppression, India came through. Hinduism came through. And where is the shame?
We're the only country that has survived an immensely large wave of Islamic marauders and retook our nation (Spain didn't suffer invasions of the same magnitude). Compare that to nations that faced the fell to the Jihad: Arabia destroyed by Islam, Persia destroyed by Islam, Byzantium destroyed by Islam with its region in Anatolia amputated, Parthia (now Iraq) fallen to Islam with its Iranian population chased out or murdered and replaced by Islamists from Arabia, non-Arabian Egypt which was last doing the rounds as a Greek outpost fallen to Islam with Arabians occupying it. And many others. On the other hand, India was only taken after many repeated violent attempts. But eventually Hindus got it back. India survived, though it was amputated (Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh now being Muslim areas) and Hinduism lives on.
Then came the Portuguese. They came, they tortured, they destroyed temples, they converted. But they were sent packing eventually.
Our nation killed colonialism and this paved the path for others. It was India that was Britain's jewel in the crown. India, that pumped Britain with its wealth. India made Britain an Empire and without India, there was no Empire. And when India left Britain's control, the latter's little bid for world domination crumbled to dust. In time other oppressed people took inspiration from India which had beaten the giant and had escaped from the long colonial stranglehold. In spite of the crushing poverty, we are making efforts to come out of it. If we succeed, we will be the rolemodel for numerous previously colonised countries stuck under that peculiar 'third-world country' label.
We made it out where none others succeeded and were not defeated. But it is now that we should not fail.
- The disinformation (propaganda, skewed local newsreports) has to be fought with dissemination of factual, verifiable information. And it has to start soon.
Consider that when I was in Chennai recently, the communist TheHindu paper was referring children to Wackipedia in an article on weather. That's their game. They want to introduce children to that site and get the next generation to start seeing it as a source of information.
We have little control over the government at present, so we have to find other ways of disseminating information. To make Hindus active and unite, requires us to speak to the one thing that does unite us: our common religio-cultural root. And to do that we have to return knowledge of what Hinduism is to them, along with the facts of history. They have to know the loss of freedom that will accompany the loss of Hinduism. They have to know its value before they contemplate letting go of it. Unless they value what it is they have, they will not want to fight for its survival or their freedom to practise it.
The damage that propaganda, communism and missionary education has done is to weaken the Hindu mind so that it is unwilling to think of defense.
By the way, this 'dissemination of factual information' should be another aspect of the many things we need to do to solve our problem.
Post 20 (chandramoulee): <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->An avid reader of this forum from the time I became a member I am very very happy to read Husky !
Wonder why he took so long to join us here! <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry I didn't see this post before. I am not sure if you are confusing me with anyone called Husky in a different forum, or whether this is a compliment directed at something I wrote at IF. I hope it's the latter. Cheers <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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