Sikh History

[Guest]

Pardon my ignorance of Sikh culture - What exactly is Manmukh and Gurmukh? Do these people have an opinion on Bhagat Singh?

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pardon my ignorance of Sikh culture - What exactly is Manmukh and Gurmukh? Do these people have an opinion on Bhagat Singh? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Viren here is the explanation in a nutshell:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Gurmukhs is a virtuous type of person whom the Gurbani calls Divine. He is Spiritually positioned, naturally.

http://www.gurbani.org/webart39.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Manmukh is the opposite of a Gurmukh. Hence, a Manmukh is a material being (egoistic or unenlightened person) as opposed to a Spiritual Being, who does not have natural inclination for Spirituality.

http://www.gurbani.org/webart39.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Manmukh is also used to refer to Sikhs who cut their hair or do other things that go against their religion, of course among Sikhs there are different views regarding the matter of hair and becoming a Khalsa, the Sanatan Sikhs say that not every Sikh was expected to be a Khalsa (they point out the fact that some close disciples of Guru Gobind Singh never became Khalsa) and one does not automatically become a manmukh because one refuses to keep the 5K's. Then there is the more dominant view held by the Akalis and others who had always attempted to Khalsaize Sikh identity, they say that all Sikhs are eventually expected to become Khalsa and that they are the truest Sikhs.

As for Bhagat Singh, he was an atheist and a Marxist, although these days people are trying to spread ideas that at the last minute he became a Sikh again, all these have no basis.

[Guest]

Thanks Bharatvarsh.
Currently there's an issue with Harbhajan Singh posing with hair down for a liquor ad. Is the controversy related?

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Currently there's an issue with Harbhajan Singh posing with hair down for a liquor ad. Is the controversy related? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I don't think so, PCJS was referrring to some online site making general comments about Sikh girls for their unwillingness to marry Amritdharis, I don't think Harbhajan is in the picture. Neverthe less intoxicants are prohibited for Sikhs, so I guess the more religious Sikhs are not very happy to see him promoting alcohol.

[Guest]

http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/

Is there a hindi translation/transliteration available of SGGS ?

[Guest]

अब कौन बोलेगा 'पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा'
[Monday, October 23, 2006 09:44:49 pm ]

एनबीटी ब्यूरो

नई दिल्ली : पंजाब का सिख समाज कुछ समय से जबर्दस्त तब्दीली के दौर से गुजर रहा है। इस ट्रेंड को अंग्रेजी साप्ताहिक 'आउटलुक' (Outlook) ने बारीकी से पेश करते हुए बताया है कि गांवों में ८० फीसदी तक सिख युवक केश कटाने लगे हैं। वे पगड़ी भी नहीं पहन रहे। 'आउटलुक' ने सिखों की इस पवित्र निशानी पर हमले के बारे में शिरोमणि गुरुद्वारा प्रबंधक कमिटी के अध्यक्ष अवतार सिंह मक्कड़ का बयान भी छापा है। मक्कड़ के मुताबिक - यह सच है कि बहुत सारी जगहों पर ८० फीसदी सिख युवक केश कटा चुके हैं। अफसोस की बात है कि अब दस्तरबंधी समागम कम हो रहे हैं। वजह यह है कि १३-१४ साल के बहुत कम युवक केश रखते हैं।

केश और पगड़ी के त्याग के पीछे कई वजहें हैं लेकिन खास यह है कि लोग पश्चिमी देशों को जाना चाहते हैं। अमेरिका में ९/११ के आतंकवादी हमलों के बाद कई बार सिखों को मुसलमान समझने की गलतफहमी हुई। इमिग्रेशन में परेशानियों का सामना करना पड़ा। फ्रांस व कुछ अन्य देशों में छात्रों के पगड़ी पहनने पर बवाल हुआ। इसलिए औरों की तरह दिखने की कोशिश में केश कटाए जाने लगे।

लेकिन केश त्याग का एक बुरा नतीजा भी सामने आ रहा है। १४-२५ की उम्र के करीब ६० फीसदी सिख युवकों को ड्रग लेने या नशा करने की आदत हो गई है। अकाल तख्त के जत्थेदार जोगिंदर सिंह वेदांती (VEDANTI) का कहना है कि पगड़ी और केश वाला सिख नशा करने में अपराध महसूस करेगा। केश और पगड़ी न होने से व्यक्ति ऐसे संकोच से मुक्त हो जाता है।

केश कटाने वालों की बढ़ती संख्या का अंदाजा इस बात से भी लगाया जा सकता है कि पहले पंजाब के गांवों में इक्का-दुक्का नाई होते थे और उन्हें भी अपना पेट पालने के लिए कुछ और काम करने पड़ते थे। लेकिन अब हर गांव में तीन-चार नाई इस काम में जुटे देखे जा सकते हैं।(Barbers r back in business!) यहां गौर करने वाली बात यह है कि पंजाब के गांवों में खेती-किसानी के काम में लगे ज्यादातर लोग जट्ट सिख हैं। गांवों में ही केश कटाने का चलन ज्यादा है, शहरों में नहीं। शहरों में खत्री सिख अधिक हैं। अधिकतर सिख गुरु खत्री समुदाय से निकले, इसीलिए उनमें धार्मिकता ज्यादा है।

इस हालत के लिए जिम्मेदार कौन है? सिख विद्वान और संत सिपाही के संपादक जी. एस. लांबा एसजीपीसी को जिम्मेदार मानते हैं। उनका कहना है कि सिख समाज की परंपराओं और मूल्यों की रक्षा करने के बजाय एसजीपीसी राजनीति में फंस गई है। उसने मजहबी जमात का अपना काम छोड़ दिया है। उसे अपने धार्मिक कर्तव्य को गंभीरता से लेना चाहिए था। वह तो अकाली दल का एक सहयोगी संगठन बनकर रह गई है।

एसजीपीसी अपना काम कर रही हो या नहीं, पंजाब में यह चेतना भी मौजूद है कि केश और पगड़ी की रक्षा के लिए कुछ किया जाना चाहिए। इंस्टिट्यूट ऑफ सिख स्टडीज के प्रो. शेर सिंह कहते हैं कि गुरु गोविंद सिंह ने सिखों के लिए पांच चीजें अनिवार्य की थीं - केश, कड़ा, कृपाण, कंघा और कच्छा। इनमें केश सबसे पहले आता है। इसीलिए 'केश संभाल प्रचार संस्था' जैसे संगठन भी सक्रिय हैं। यह संस्था जालंधर और अमृतसर में दो स्कूल चला रही है, जहां पगड़ी बांधना सिखाया जाता है। एक और संगठन 'मिस्टर सिंह इंटरनैशनल' प्रतियोगिता का आयोजन करता है, जिसमें सिर्फ केशधारी-पगड़ीधारी ही हिस्सा ले सकते हैं।

[Guest]

Google - Book dowload
<b>Origin of the Sikh power in the Punjab, and political life of muha-raja Runjeet Singh, with an account of the present condition of the Sikhs</b>
By Henry Thoby Prinsep
Publisher: Military Orphan Press
Author(s): Henry Thoby Prinsep
Publication Date: 1834
Pages: 235

<b>A History of the Sikhs: From the Origin of the Nation to the Battles of the Sutlej</b>
Publisher: J. Murray
Author(s): Joseph Davey Cunningham
Publication Date: 1853
Pages: 473


<b>The Sikhs and the Sikh Wars: the rise, conquest, and annexation of the Punjab State</b>
Publisher: A. D. Innes & co.
Author(s): Sir Charles Gough, Arthur Donald Innes
Publication Date: 1897
Pages: 304

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Oct 16 2006, 05:54 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Oct 16 2006, 05:54 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/

Is there a hindi translation/transliteration available of SGGS ?
[right][snapback]59165[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. SGGS is available in all world languages. infact Hindi version is available online here

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...on=Page&Param=1

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-digvijay+Oct 5 2006, 10:21 PM-->QUOTE(digvijay @ Oct 5 2006, 10:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Oct 5 2006, 07:10 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 5 2006, 07:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Why was the First Son made a Sikh </b>
In May 2004 Manmohan Singh became India's Prime Minister. When .....
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]58549[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudy,

It is not correct that Sikhs became renowned as a fighting force due to Brits. It is true that when Sikhism arose it was largely a peaceful religious sect. But when Gurus were killed and the persecution of Hindus and Sikhs became the norm at the hands of muslims the Gurus of Sikhs decided to make Sikhs into a fighting force. For this reason the ballads of bravery were sung at Akal Takth to inspire the followers of Sikh Panth. These ballads were of rajput warriors from Rajasthan and UP/MP.

http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Banda_Bhadur

-Digvijay

-Digvijay
[right][snapback]58588[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


The number 5 is very imporant according to Guru Naank.

There is a Panchayat, there are five "pravaan", there are five elements of life (ether, fire, air, water, ??)

There is kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankaar and there is satt, santokh, daya, dharam, sabr.

Thus the first five human sikh gurus were saints (nanak, angad, amardas, ramdas and arjan dev)

The last five human sikh gurus were soldiers (hargobind, har rai, har kishen, tegh bahadur, gobind singh)

The concept of Saint Soldier was started by Guru Nanak Dev. Basically.. all Sikh gurus that followed Guru Nanak dev puts his sayings into practice. For example

Nanak shunned caste system, third guru Guru Amardas institunalized the langar where upper/lower caste cook and ate together.

Nanak wanted woman to have equal rights. so second and third gurus started appointing Woman as "preachers", remarrying the widows, stopped Sati, etc.

Nanak says that a person has be a Saint yet Soldier.... That's how the Khalsa Panth become. Guru Gobind Instutionalized the Nanak's saying into providing the Khalsa with dress code and weapons and need to protect the ancient indian values.

and so forth.... Each and every modern Sikh practice can be traced back to Guru Nanak Dev.

Sandeep

[Guest]

Sandeep,

Is this an authentic translation of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib? :-
http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/


Also is there a chapter called "Praan Sangli" in there or is it a separate book?

One white guy I know was quoting from the "Praan Sangli" by Guru Nanak.

Thanks.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Nov 4 2006, 11:04 PM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Nov 4 2006, 11:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sandeep,

Is this an authentic translation of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib? :-
http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/


Also is there a chapter called "Praan Sangli" in there or is it a separate book?

One white guy I know was quoting from the "Praan Sangli" by Guru Nanak.

Thanks.
[right][snapback]60364[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is somewhat Authentic Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This book was compiled by the Fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji at Golden Temple during the reign of Jahangir.

What Guru Arjan Dev did was this

1. He got Guru Nanak's Bani from the descendants of the second Guru Guru Angad dev ji as well as the bani of second Guru living at Khadoor sahib.

2. He got the bani of the Third Guru from the descendants of third guru living at Goindwal Sahib.

3. He had the bani of his own father as well as his.

4. He told his Sikhs to go all over India to collect the works of good indian bhakti movement saints. So he included Bhagat Kabir, Bhagat Namdev, Baba Sheikh Farid Shakarganj, Sheikh Farid Sani, Bhagat Ravidass and numerous other Bhagats., His sikhs would bring him the works of these saints and he (guru) along with Bhai Gurdas (his scholar disciple) would argue back and forth and include/reject these compositions.

5. One of his Sikhs brought him Pran Sangli from Sri Lanka which was rejected by Guru Arjan dev ji.

6. After Granth (it was called Adi Granth at that time) was comleted he put the Granth in the middle of Golden Temple telling people to read and understand its sayings.

7. Guru Arjan dev was martyred at Lahore on the orders of Shaikh Ahmad Sarhindi through Jahangir.

8. The rest of the Gurus (hargobind, har rai, har kishen, tegh bahadur, gobind singh) were too busy fighting the Mughals and only Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind singh included little bit of their bani in Adi Granth (much less than other Gurus). Though Guru Gobind Singh compiled a separate book of his own writings that is now called "Dasam Granth" i.e. "Book of the Tenth Guru".

9. After Guru Gobind Singh's father was martyred at Delhi, his sons (4) were martyred at Sarhind and Chamkaur, his mother was martyred at sarhind. Guru Gobind Singh went down to Maharashtra (obviously to preach Sikhism and get support of Marathas), where one day when he was sleeping in his tent, two Pathans sneaked in and wounded him in an ensuing fight, both pathans was killed. Guru Gobind Singh was used to daily exercise early morning (apart from hosrse riding, which was to shot thousands or so arrows at a target)., as he tried to fix his bow, the stiches on his stomach due to the wounds opened up and he collapsed, by the time surgeon came to him too much blood was lost and he realizing that his end was near., got his all Sikhs together told them that the "Adi Granth" was the next Guru for all eternity and his own book was not Guru but a guidance for battle (source of inspiration).

10. Since! during 1500s-1600s all books were hand written many people made SGGS which had many of the rejected writings by Guru Arjan. If you go to the first floor of the Golden Temple you will see the Original Book written by Guru Arjan Dev ji still preserved. The original three copies (which were made by Guru Arjan dev and Bhai Gurdas) are identical and are preserved at Khadoor Sahib and Goindwal Sahib. During the turbulent times (between martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev and Martyrdom of Guru Gobind Singh, then Banda Bahadur and then the Mughals hunting Sikhs), many people made counterfit granth sahib. So! now majority of Sikhs agree that the Guru Granth Sahib is what you see in an average Gurudwara (it does not have pran sangli)

thanks
Sandeep

[Guest]

There are three Versions on which the current SGGS is built.

1. The Granth owned by Dhirmal (Dhirmal was cousin of guru Arjan Dev ji). This
granth is currently called "Kartarpuri bir" and is currently owned by a descendant
of Dhirmal named Amarjit Singh Sodhi living at Kartarpur, Jalandhar. This book is generally
thought to be the original book which Guru Arjan dev ji and Bhai Gurdas ji had worked upon,
in this book you will find pran sangli in Urdu (which was written by Bhai Gurdas ji),
this was rejected by Guru Arjan dev ji in the subsequent Granth that he installed at Golden
Temple.


2. Then there is another Bir named "Bhai Banno's Bir" at Gurudwara Bhai Bannu, Kanpur, UP.
It is pretty much similar to the one installed at Golden Temple by Guru Arjan Dev ji.

3. The third bir is called "Damdami Bir" which was edited by Guru Gobind Singh, when he
was in hiding at Damdama Sahib (just after his family was massacred). Guru Gobind
singh copied the adi Granth and included his father (guru Tegh Bahadur) bani as well as his,
before passing it out as the final SGGS. This is the real Granth that is everywhere.

the 1 above is "Kartarpuri Bir" and since Dhirmal Sodhi (cousin of Guru Arjan Dev) wanted
himself to become "Guru" he tried various nefarious means to put down the Sikh struggle.
He also owned Golden Temple and thus his descendants never let Guru Gobind Singh enter
the Golden temple. Guru Gobind Singh tried to visit Golden Temple once but doors were shut and
then he never ever visited Golden Temple. Guru Tegh Bahadur actually had
to establish Chak Nanaki (later named as Anandpur Sahib) away from Amritsar,
to move away from his cousins.

[Guest]

Sandeep,

I have read a story from a very respectable non-Sikh source. Is this a well known fact amongst Sikhs?

Tale is like this: Upto the first 3 Gurus, the Gurupad was not passed on to the son, but to the most able disciple within the Panth. Guru Angad Dev - the second Guru - had grown very old, so he passed on the responsibility of Panth to his disciple Guru Amardas - the third Guru - in his own life.

Once upon a time Guru Angad was taking bath. After taking bath he sat down on a wooden platform (takhat) and started meditating. Bhani Kunwar Ji - (wife of Guru Amardas ji) was sitting nearby to look after the aged Guru. One of the supports (paya) of the takhat was weak and started falling apart. Guru Angad was still in meditation, and nobody else was around. Bhani ji, afraid that aged Guru may fall down and get hurt, and seeing no other option, put her own feet in the place of the support. Nails digged into her flesh and weight of the platform was much. As a result she started bleeding profusely but did not wake the Guru up from his meditation.

When Guru Angad got up after meditating, he saw the scene, and felt greatly for the devotion of Bhaniji. In that state he asked Bhaniji to ask for any wish and it would be granted. She refused to ask, but Guru insisted. At last she said if Guru really wanted to bless her with something, she wanted that the Gurupad of Sikh panth should stay withing her children and their children, and not go to anyone outside her family.

Hearing this, Guru became very serious and sad. He said Gurupad only belongs to Guru Nanak and no one else had any authority to claim it or grant it. He further said sadly that since he had already promised her, her wish would be fulfilled, but from then onwards Sikh Gurus and their devoted Sikhs would endure great hardships, as this was a disobey to Guru Nanak.

Is above a well-known story? More details?

Also do you have some inputs about this post?

Thanks

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Nov 7 2006, 08:17 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Nov 7 2006, 08:17 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sandeep,

I have read a story from a very respectable non-Sikh source.  Is this a well known fact amongst Sikhs?

Tale is like this: Upto the first 3 Gurus, the Gurupad was not passed on to the son, but to the most able disciple within the Panth.  Guru Angad Dev - the second Guru - had grown very old, so he passed on the responsibility of Panth to his disciple Guru Amardas - the third Guru - in his own life. 

Once upon a time Guru Angad was taking bath.  After taking bath he sat down on a wooden platform (takhat) and started meditating.  Bhani Kunwar Ji - (wife of Guru Amardas ji) was sitting nearby to look after the aged Guru.  One of the supports (paya) of the takhat was weak and started falling apart.  Guru Angad was still in meditation, and nobody else was around.  Bhani ji, afraid that aged Guru may fall down and get hurt, and seeing no other option, put her own feet in the place of the support.  Nails digged into her flesh and weight of the platform was much.  As a result she started bleeding profusely but did not wake the Guru up from his meditation.

When Guru Angad got up after meditating, he saw the scene, and felt greatly for the devotion of Bhaniji.  In that state he asked Bhaniji to ask for any wish and it would be granted.  She refused to ask, but Guru insisted.  At last she said if Guru really wanted to bless her with something, she wanted that the Gurupad of Sikh panth should stay withing her children and their children, and not go to anyone outside her family. 

Hearing this, Guru became very serious and sad.  He said Gurupad only belongs to Guru Nanak and no one else had any authority to claim it or grant it.  He further said sadly that since he had already promised her, her wish would be fulfilled, but  from then onwards Sikh Gurus and their devoted Sikhs would endure great hardships, as this was a disobey to Guru Nanak.

Is above a well-known story?  More details?

Also do you have some inputs about this post?

Thanks
[right][snapback]60488[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Well...... Talking about Gurgaddi.. here is the scoop.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji (Bedi subcaste) tested his both sons and rejected them as his successor. He wanted people who can put his values into practice. He picked a person named "Lahina Trehan" who was from Chuna Mandi Lahore, He renamed him as "Angad" i.e. "just like a part of my body" So second Guru Guru Angad was already in service of Guru Nanak dev for several years he had crafted a new language that he called "Gurmukhi" (now punjabi that is taught in punjab is the same) and he wrote everything that Guru nanak Said in his notebook in Gurmukhi language.

Sri Guru Angad Dev ji put Guru Nanak dev's sayings into practice and when his time came to depart he picked a person named Amardas Bhalla (not his sons or daughters whom he think were unfit to be Guru). Sri Guru Amardas ji earlier were devotee of temple at Naina Devi., but once when he was passing through Khadur Sahib, on hearing the Gurbani of Guru Angad dev ji decided to take him as his Guru. Guru Amardas ji lived at Khadur sahib serving Guru Angad ji and then became the Third Sikh Guru.

Guru Amardas ji had 3 sons and 2 twin daughters (bibi bhani and bibi dani). Guru Amardas was very very humble person and one of his daughter (bibi Bhani) was his a very devoted Sikh. So when time came for her to get married., one day Guru Amardas's wife saw a handsome person in a street selling "boiled gram" who distributed half of his wares freely to poor., Wife asked Guru to find a match "just like that boy", Guru Amardas replied that he is the unique person and asked him to send his parents. Thus this poor person named Ramdas Sodhi (who had been kicked out of his house after his father expired and was making ends meet by selling boiled gram) became son-in-law of third Guru Guru Amardas ji. Not only ... that.. at that Time Akbar was ruling India. He came to visit Guru Amardas ji., since Guru Amardas ji had just started langar he told emperor that only if he sat down with rest of Sikhs, he will be welcomed. Akbar was so immpressed that he gifted the land revenue of three villages to the daughter (bibi Bhani) of Guru Amardas ji.

Ramdas ji (son-in-law) was entrusted by third Guru to establish a city in the center of these three villages (gifted by Akbar), the city that was thus established was named "Ramdaspur" and later it became Amritsar. Bibi Bhani ji and Ramdas ji (both wife and husband) served Guru Amardas ji for many years (30+) and then when time came for Guru Amardas ji he passed on the Gurgaddi to Guru Ramdas ji Sodhi.

Fourth Guru Guru Ramdas ji Sodhi was on Gurgaddi for only 4 years., when he picked his younger son (arjan dev) and not elder son as his successor. This infuriated the elder son who along with other Sodhis tried to kill the younger son Arjan Dev.

Thus.. the fifth Guru Guru Arjan dev Sodhi... became the last spiritul saint of Sikhs. He compiled Adi Granth, created Golden Temple, installed adi granth there and then he was martyred at Lahore due to not converting to Islam as wished by Jahangir and Naqshbandi Muslims.

His Sons.. Guru Hargobind Sodhi became Sixth guru and he immediately created a small army (700 men) and started small skirmishes with Mughals... he was imprisoned by Shahjehan at Gwalior fort., one of his sons named Tyag Mal was renamed "Tegh Bahadur" (later became ninth guru and was martyred at Delhi) as he displayed a very good sword fighting during one such skirmish with Mughals.

Guru Hargobind ji made his Son HarRai was the seventh Guru. Guru Harrai was constanly harassed by Mughals and he spent many years in guerilla warfare in himalayas. for gurgaddi he raised his elder son named "Ram Rai" as his successor., but once Naqshbandi muslims found an offensive quote by Guru Nanak in the Adi Granth where Guru Nanak had compared "muslims to dishonest"., Aurungzeb asked for the Guru Harrai, since Guru Harrai was raising his elder son ramrai as the next guru, he was sent to Delhi to answer aurungzeb's questions. At delhi Ram rai got scared and he changed the bani of Guru Nanak to suit Aurungzeb. Thus Ramrai was disowned and disqualified for becoming the eighth guru., Guru Harrai made his 5 year old son named HarKishen as the eighth Guru. Guru Harkishen was only guru for 3 years when he caught small pox at Delhi, just before his death he appointed his uncle Tegh Bahadur as the next guru.

Guru Tegh Bahadur Sodhi became the ninth guru and was martyred at Delhi. His son Guru Gobind Singh became the last human Sikh Guru.

So.. technically the Sikh Gurguddi was all in Punjabi Khatris hand (Bedi, Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi)

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-sbajwa+Nov 4 2006, 01:23 AM-->QUOTE(sbajwa @ Nov 4 2006, 01:23 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-digvijay+Oct 5 2006, 10:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(digvijay @ Oct 5 2006, 10:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Oct 5 2006, 07:10 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 5 2006, 07:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Why was the First Son made a Sikh </b>
In May 2004 Manmohan Singh became India's Prime Minister. When .....
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]58549[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudy,

It is not correct that Sikhs became renowned as a fighting force due to Brits. It is true that when Sikhism arose it was largely a peaceful religious sect. But when Gurus were killed and the persecution of Hindus and Sikhs became the norm at the hands of muslims the Gurus of Sikhs decided to make Sikhs into a fighting force. For this reason the ballads of bravery were sung at Akal Takth to inspire the followers of Sikh Panth. These ballads were of rajput warriors from Rajasthan and UP/MP.

http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Banda_Bhadur

-Digvijay

-Digvijay
[right][snapback]58588[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


The number 5 is very imporant according to Guru Naank.

There is a Panchayat, there are five "pravaan", there are five elements of life (ether, fire, air, water, ??)

There is kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankaar and there is satt, santokh, daya, dharam, sabr.

Thus the first five human sikh gurus were saints (nanak, angad, amardas, ramdas and arjan dev)

The last five human sikh gurus were soldiers (hargobind, har rai, har kishen, tegh bahadur, gobind singh)

The concept of Saint Soldier was started by Guru Nanak Dev. Basically.. all Sikh gurus that followed Guru Nanak dev puts his sayings into practice. For example

Nanak shunned caste system, third guru Guru Amardas institunalized the langar where upper/lower caste cook and ate together.

Nanak wanted woman to have equal rights. so second and third gurus started appointing Woman as "preachers", remarrying the widows, stopped Sati, etc.

Nanak says that a person has be a Saint yet Soldier.... That's how the Khalsa Panth become. Guru Gobind Instutionalized the Nanak's saying into providing the Khalsa with dress code and weapons and need to protect the ancient indian values.

and so forth.... Each and every modern Sikh practice can be traced back to Guru Nanak Dev.

Sandeep
[right][snapback]60311[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I dont trust SIkhnet guys. Everyday i check Hukamnana from that site and unfotunately always found their english translation of hukamnana incorrect as well as biased in "certain" way.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>'Dasam Granth not for Sikhs' </b>
Pioneer News Service | Chandigarh
<b>Panthic bodies flay installation of Dasam Granth by Damdami Taksal</b>
A panthic convention attended by various Sikh organisations and Sikh intellectuals held here on Monday flayed the installation of the controversial Dasam Granth as Sikh scripture at Fateh Diwas being observed by Damdami Taksal and a section of the Sant Samaj.

The convention passed a resolution against Dasam Granth institution of priesthood in Sikhism, Damdami Taksal and role of Sikh clergy, a press release issued by about twenty Sikh intellectuals and bodies said. In all five resolutions were passed.

Dr Harjinder Singh Dilgeer, in his keynote address, said that <b>the so called Dasam Granth was not fit to be considered as a religious scripture and its poetry was anti-Sikh in nature. It may be the scripture of a religion but it could also be the scripture of hedonists, pornography or shakti cults, he said. To install it in a Gurdwara was an insult to Guru Granth Sahib and it amounts to abusing and insulting Guru Gobind Singh</b>, Dilgeer said.

He clarified that<b> no Sikh could dare to criticise the Nitnem Banis (Jaap Sahib etc) but the rest of the contents of the Dasam Granth were anti-Sikh literature. He said that it was the handiwork of anti-Sikh forces to create confusion among Sikhs</b>. He said that Shiromani Akali Dal president Parkash Singh Badal and the priestly class were mainly responsible for all problems faced by Sikhs.

Prof Gurtej Singh read the resolutions and <b>warned the Sikh Panth of dire consequences if the Sikh nation didn't wake up and reacted in time</b>.

Rajinder Singh Khalsa who presided over the convention said that <b>Jatha Bhindran Mehta Jatha was leading the greatest anti-Sikh movement in history by joining hands with the RSS and other anti-Sikh bodies. He said that Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala had united the Sikhs for a national goal but the present leadership was destroying the basic Sikh institutions</b>. He said, from those who had been lying for 21 years about Bhindranwala's martyrdom, one could easily infer what such an organisation would do for Sikhs.

<b>The convention also passed resolutions saying that the Dasam Granth had nothing to do with Sikhism and that the priestly class was the main reason behind problems faced by the Sikhs.</b> The convention also passed resolutions on the anti-Sikh role played by Jatha Bhindra Mehta and Jaap Sahib not being a part of the Dasam Granth. Another resolution condemned the alleged attack on certain Sikhs by the gunmen of Akal Taskht Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti at Faridabad on Sunday.

Prominent among whom attended the convention were Chairman Sahib Dal Khalsa Satnam Singh Paonta, Chairman Miri Piri Dal Gurvinder Singh Dhanaula, founder Sikh missionary college Mohinder Singh Josh and principal Narinder Singh Jammu.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fatwa issued by Sikh group.
WHo are these priestly class?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Zafrnamah celebrations conclave confirms Guru Gobind Singh as Dasam Granth author </b>
Chanchal Manohar Singh | Chandigarh
Conclave celebrating the tenth Guru Zafrnamah's 300th anniversary as Fateh Diwas near Bhatinda on <b>Monday passed a resolution confirming that Dasam Granth's author was Guru Gobind Singh. It also reiterated that the status of a Guru is accorded only to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and no other scripture or granth shall hold similar status for the Sikhs.</b>

Through another resolution, the conclave urged Punjab Government to initiate action against all who indulge in propagating anti-Sikh scriptures and distort Sikh history as part of a propaganda in the media causing disaffections among members of the Sikh community. <b>It also demanded action against Rojana, a Chandigarh Punjabi daily that has published articles hurting Sikh religious sentiments.</b>

In the conclave pandal, Sri Guru Ganth Sahib was solemnised and Giani Gurbachan Singh head Granthi Darbar Sahib, Amritsar performed religious rituals and offered ardas before the celebrations were over.

Rajinder Singh Mehta, a member of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabhandak Committee (SGPC) made his presence at the celebrations on behalf of the SGPC as well as its president Jathedar Avtar Singh Makkar.

To avoid further controversies on various Sikh religious issues, the conclave passed a resolution asking the Akal Takht to issue a directive that<b> all Sikh missionary institution will prescribe books and syllabus and books prescribed by the SGPC run missionary schools.</b>

Although the conclave passed off peacefully, the controversy over authorship of the Dasam Granth is likely to continue, for those who dispute the authorship of some of the banis included in the two volumes of Dasam Granth don't agree with the stand taken by the conclave, the SGPC or the Akal Takht.

Among those who participated in the conclave included Akal Takht Jathedar Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar Sri Akal Takht Giani Iqbal Singh, Jathedar of Takht Sri Patna Sahib Patna among others, a representative of Jathedar Takht Sri Hajoor Sahib, Nander Sahib, Jathedar Tarlochan Singh, Jathedar of Takht Sri Keshgarh Sahib, Anandpur Sahib and Giani Balwant Singh Nandgarh, Jathedar Takht Sri Damdama Sahib (Talwandi Sabo), Bhai Harnam Singh, Damdami Takshal head, representatives of various Nihang Sects and representatives of several prominent Sikh religious organisations.

The organisers of the conclave neither made any attempt to take them into confidence nor did they attempted to sort out the controversy with the opponents
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They should invite Witzel and Farmer to resolve this issue. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

In this 14 min. video, Dr. Harbhajan Singh, Professor Punjabi University Patiala, explains the significance of Dasam Granth, and the compatability of the sayings of Sri Guru Govind Singh ji with Adi Granth.

It is in Sanskrit-nishtha Punjabi, so if you know Hindi, you will be able to understand.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...436119697&hl=en

[Guest]

Good riddens.

<b>Khalistan in 2007? - Chauhan's 'dream' dies with him</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Khalistan ideologue's 'intuition' - that the separate Sikh nation would become a reality in 2007 - died with him Wednesday morning when the once fiery separatist passed away in a Punjab town following a heart attack.

The 78-year-old Sikh leader spent nearly half his life propagating a separate<span style='color:red'> Sikh state - Khalistan (land of the pure) - after he first inserted an advertisement in the New York Times in Oct 1971 conceptualising an idea.</span>
...........
<b>'About 5-10 percent Sikhs supported the demand for Khalistan at one stage in the mid-1980s. After 1990, no one has really bothered about it. Now, I don't think anyone has the time or the inclination to even give it a thought,' said retired professor Balbir Singh</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Close the chapter</b>
THIS ABOVE ALL - KHUSHWANT SINGH
<http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070428/images/28khush3.jpg>

<b>Chohan: end of an era</b>

The death last month of Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan (79) in his village, Tanda, reminded me of his case against me and my encounter with the other protagonists of a separate Sikh state, notably Ganga Singh Dhillon, Gurmeet Singh Aulakh and Simranjeet Singh Mann. I never met Chohan but he took me to court in London and Chandigarh. He had set up an Embassy of the Republic of Khalistan in London, with a Nihang guarding the entrance. He issued passports and currency notes of Khalistan. He made Sikhs a laughing stock. I wrote about him in volume II of my A History of the Sikhs. He claimed that I had libelled him and asked for damages of over a million pounds sterling from my publishers and me.

It was trial by jury. Chohan attended the hearings everyday, taking with him a few patriarchs with long, flowing beards. He produced some witnesses, including an English woman, Joyce Pettigrew, author of Robber Noblemen, a book on Sikh zamindars I had rubbished in my columns. I could not travel to London but sent affidavits signed, among others, by President Zail Singh, S.J.S. Chhatwal, retired high commissioner of Canada, and a couple of old fellow villagers of Chohan to the effect that as a young man he had not conformed to the Khalsa tradition of wearing his hair and beard unshorn.

The judge put two questions to the jury: Had I libelled Chohan? If so, what damages would they award to him? To the first question, the jury affirmed that I had libelled Chohan. To the amount of damages to be given to Chohan, the jurors fixed the amount at one penny. Chohan claimed victory. He never asked me for the one penny he had won. I still owe him a penny. I've no idea what came of the case he had some relation of his filed against me in Chandigarh.

I have strong views on the claim of a separate, sovereign state for Sikhs or any similar demand for an independent state to be carved out of India. I belong to the Sikh community but regard Khalistanis as the worst enemies of the Khalsa Panth and traitors to the country. I have often challenged them to draw me a map of what they conceive as Khalistan, in which Sikhs will have as much of a majority as they do in Punjab today. Not one has taken up my challenge. Twenty per cent of the community live outside Punjab: farmers in Ganganagar district of Rajasthan and the Terai in Uttarakhand, Sikh industrialists, professionals, and tradesmen prosper in all parts of the country. What will become of them if, god forbid, they get away with a Sikh state? Another mass immigration of refugees?

They never answer these questions because they never bother to think about them. They are singularly brainless and unconcerned about the future of the community. Another Khalistani, Simranjit Singh Mann, won his election to the Lok Sabha but refused to enter it because he was not allowed to carry a kirpan of the length he wanted. No other Sikh MP before or after him found that a problem.

Gurmeet Singh Aulakh and Ganga Singh Dhillon continued to live in Washington. Aulakh used to issue bulletins in support of Khalistan. (He sent me some in which he had written something nasty about me). He has fallen silent. Dhillon lives in a large house overlooking Potomac River. I had a long luncheon session with him. I advised him to change his name and that instead of polluting the Ganga, he should pollute the Potomac.

The demand for Khalistan met the fate it deserved. It died an ignominious death. But let it be a lesson to others who periodically make noises about separating the states in which they live from India. We have heard them in Bengal, Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra. They are voices of treason which the people themselves should silence.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->