Christian subversion and missionary activities -2

Husky · (This post was last modified: 01-31-2007, 11:52 AM by Husky.)

QUOTEIt's a pity that Pat Robertson never studied European history, or the history of his own ancestors who all came running to the New World ( America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, S. Africa, etc) from the christianized Old World (Europe), to escape the gruelling poverty of the Old World. Anyone who has read European history, or studied historical demography of Europe, or even the classic literature from 18th-19th century Europe, will understand the extent to which European society was plagued by extreme rampant poverty, terrible living conditions, and social divisions, which prompted the migration of millions of Europeans to the New Worlds in serch of better life. Yet, Europe was very much christian when poverty of an excruciating nature prevailed in Europe.Very true. One can even get a glimpse of the grinding poverty from Charles Dickens' writings, or see it in the dramatised versions made by English channels: David Copperfield, Our Mutual Friend, Oliver Twist, Nicholas Nickleby. Also such programmes as the more recent North and South - which is significantly about the cotton industry in Manchester (their cotton industry could only survive because Britain systematically destroyed India's). In this last film, there's even a scene set at a London exhibition displaying items from 'all over the British Empire'. In one part of this scene you can see the characters standing in front of a Hindu statue.

The making-of of 'Our Mutual Friend' also has one of the actors saying something quite insightful: how the drama's setting of the Britain of that time was depicted rather accurately, and how the lower classes (who made up the poor) lived like they were in the slums of today's "Karachi" (actor's words). They literally lived in grime and dirt and had to scrape their living out of the roadside. By accident, the actor interviewed made some very good choice of words, even if Karachi does not come out favourably because of the comparison.
They play this stuff on TV here, and if they do so where you all are living, watch it. These are good to get some view of their history, as well as to see the sympathetic characters created by Dickens and the other English authors. (The regular people who stayed put in Britain appear to have been far better people than the christoterrorist colonials who terrorised India; at least when going by these dramas).

Britain's increase in wealth is directly proportional to India's increase in poverty.
Same correlation applies to all of colonial west and formerly-colonised countries.
The west really has to learn this which is the only thing that will teach it to stop slighting its former victims by its ignorance, an ignorance that still continues the colonial attitude of how 'they don't care'. The formerly-colonised countries also need to learn and remember this so that they know their poverty has nothing to do with their Old religions.

01-31-2007, 04:36 PM

QUOTENuns on the run, chased by bad debts 
Â
Athens: A group of Greek nuns abandoned their convent and went into hiding after running up debts of more than 600,000 euros from a knitting business that went bust, authorities said on Tuesday.

The 55 sisters of the Saints Kirikos and Ioulitis monastery in the town of Sidirokastro, near the border with Bulgaria, had purchased machinery worth 250,000 euros with bank loans some years ago, police officials said. But despite supplying several shops, they were running deeper and deeper into debt and risking bankruptcy.

"We have not been asked to intervene yet but we are following the case closely," a police official said.

The nuns are believed to have taken refuge at another monastery in central Greece and the Greek press has reported that the Church of Greece has offered to help them pay their debts and come out of hiding.

The church's representative was not available for comment.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14378602

Said the nuns meekly, when the police caught up with them, "We was only trying to knit woolies for jesus, 'cause the winter was coming."

Interesting though, how the church and monasteries conveniently provide safe haven, or sanctuary, for crooks running away from the law. The most famous, of course, is the luxurious 7-star hotel, the Vatican, which regularly hosts paedophile priests wanted by the law in many countries.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 01-31-2007, 05:35 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(sankara @ Jan 31 2007, 04:36 PM)Interesting though, how the church and monasteries conveniently provide safe haven, or sanctuary, for crooks running away from the law. The most famous, of course, is the luxurious 7-star hotel, the Vatican, which regularly hosts paedophile priests wanted by the law in many countries.
[right][snapback]63837[/snapback][/right]None more famous than the Vatican's infamy in helping nazis escape justice after the baddies lost. For example:
(from http://freetruth.50webs.org/ )
QUOTEThe Vatican harboured Nazis & helped them escape
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE"In deep gratitude I recall the help of Catholic priests in my escape out of Europe and decided to honour the Catholic faith in which I became an honorary member"
-- Adolf Eichmann, Nazi war criminal, in 1961 
[translation from Eichmann's original German statement cited in Persilscheine und falsche PÃ¤sse, by Ernst Klee]Croatia's Nazi (Ustashi) leader Pavelic is another example:
QUOTEOther reports mention Ustashas meeting with Vatican officials or even living in the Vatican. The British Foreign Office reported in January 1947 that Pavelic himself, by that time a wanted war criminal, was living "within the Vatican City."
-- A vow of silence - U.S. News and World Report, March 30, 1998QUOTEthe now famous "La Vista Report" of May 15, 1947, a top-secret U.S. Army Intelligence report documenting the Vatican's role in aiding the escape of numerous high-ranking Nazi war criminals, among them Ante Pavelic, fascist leader of wartime Croatia; Franz Stangel, Commander of Treblinka; Eduard Roschmann, "the Butcher of Riga"; Klaus Barbie, "the Butcher of Lyon"; SS General Walter Rauff, inventor of the mobile gas truck; Adolf Eichmann, "architect of the Holocaust"; and tens of thousands of others.
-- What is the Vatican Hiding, by Barry LituchyQUOTEThe Vatican's continuing secrecy means the evidence is incomplete, but already declassified documents from the archives of the United States and other nations suggest that--with the aid of Croatian Catholic priests--Ustasha plunder made its way from Croatia to Rome, and possibly to the Vatican itself.
-- A vow of silence - U.S. News and World Report, March 30, 1998Much Nazi blood money made it into the Vatican, but not out.
Further details here
</div>Granted it's the difference between petty crime and major crime, but the Greek Orthodox Church comes off much better in the comparison (helping fraudster nuns, instead of the nazis like the Catholic Church did).

**acharya** · 02-02-2007, 10:00 PM

The end of days.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell71.html

When the subject of the "end-times" comes up, many Christians and non-Christians donât want to talk about it. Some Christians, annoyed with all the competing theories and terminology just say, "What difference does it make? Jesus is coming back and I just need to be ready." Non-Christians just assume that since Christianity isnât true, then the whole issue doesnât matter. Well, actually, it does matter. I will submit that the popular doctrines of the Left Behind series pose very real threats not only to Christianity, but also to the wider culture.

Probably most conservative Protestants (though not all of us) believe that humanity is certainly in the final generation of life on earth as we currently know it. Not that we "could be," but that "we must be." Thatâs a big distinction.

Also, if you buy into these interpretations, talks of peace in the Middle East are futile. Jews and Muslims must continue killing each other at high rates. And who will be the one bringing peace to the Middle East in this popular end-time paradigm? Not Jesus, but the Antichrist. Therefore, talk of Middle East peace during this current "dispensation" is not from Jesus, but the Antichrist. When dispensationalists hear talk of peace summits or treaties in the Middle East, they assume it must have evil origins and be antichristic. If thatâs the cause, why bother trying to make the world a better place? All we need to do is be good Christians and wait for our ticket out of this earth and make way for the Antichrist.

If they are correct, why should any of us bother trying to make the world a better place? Dispensationalists get very annoyed at this question. They say, "Final peace on earth will only come through Christ!" They basically insist Christians trying to do good in the world should only focus on "spiritual things." Trying to change social institutions for the better is futile and presumptuous. Apparently the only two options are handing the world over to Satan or believing that humans can do everything in their own strength. Not much room for nuance here.

Ironically, many dispensationalists are involved in the Religious Right movement and want to stem abortions, ban gay marriage and make America more Christian. But at the same time they believe in a theology that says the world can only get worse, that thereâs nothing any of us can do about it, and that itâs about to get so bad Christians are going to be taken off of the earth. If the ship is irreversibly sinking, why try and patch up the leaks?


The logic and implications are clear. Society is going to hades in a handbasket. Thereâs little we can do to stem the tide of evil. The Middle East must further deteriorate. Anyone who disagrees with Israelâs foreign policy is opposing God. The third most important site to Muslims must be crushed to make way for a new Jewish Temple. Good Christians should support the building of a new temple with new animal sacrifices taking place inside of it (compare Hebrews 10 to the theology of Darby and Hal Lindsey). And in a strange sense, war is kinda good and peace is kinda bad â since war is a sign that the end is near and peace on earth is a sign of the Antichrist. Any Christian who doesnât agree with all this is deceived at best and a heretic at worst.

When you understand that millions of Christians believe this way, and that some of them are actually fairly influential on the political scene, you begin to see why this theology needs to be refuted. By refuting it, dispensationalists think youâre trying to refute God. I would argue that youâre being more faithful to God and the very Scriptures themselves. This is not just an in-house debate that only affects myself and other Christians. Dispensationalists have a vision for the world and it is bad news for everybody.

ramana · 02-02-2007, 10:39 PM

Is the end of times a distorted version of kalki?

02-04-2007, 12:22 AM

QUOTEUS tourists attacked on charges of conversion
[ 3 Feb, 2007 1722hrs ISTPTI ]
RAIPUR: Four American tourists and a local couple were allegedly assaulted and looted by unidentified youths "for involving in religious conversion", police said on Saturday. 

According to the complaint filed by Pastor Harish Patel, the youths, who were raising "Jai Sriram" slogans, also took away two laptops, digital cameras and mobile phones from the foreigners.

The alleged attack took place on Friday evening when a prayer meeting was on. According to the complainant, about ten youths barged into the hall and started assaulting the people.

The youths accused the gathering of involving in conversion activities and damaged some properties before escaping with the costly gadgets.

Police have registered a case against unknown persons as the complainant has not named anyone in the FIR.

Following the incident, former Chief Minister and senior Congress leader Ajit Jogi demanded arrest of those responsible for the incident. A delegation from Christian community called on Jogi on Saturday. Jogi spoke to Senior Superintendent of Police Raipur, B S Maravi, and asked him take steps to check such incidents in future.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_tourists_attacked_on_charges_of_conversion/articleshow/1558867.cms
COngress is directly involved in conversion.

02-04-2007, 03:04 AM

QUOTETeaching English in Japan

Interac and the LDS church

Interac is the biggest provider of assistant language teachers for government schools in Japan. They earn 500,000 Yen (5,000USD) per teacher per month and pay him 250,000 salary. Where does the rest of the money go? You'd never guess...

Started as an undercover mormon mission by two mormon missionaries
Interac started as an undercover mormon mission in the early Seventies. As it is illegal to recruit members for religious groups they came up with a special trick. Teaching English to Japanese for free. Take a guess what kind of vocabulary was tought...

Started by two mormon missionaries has developed into a fantastic money machine for the LDS Church. Most employees ignore that they are working in tothe pocket of a religious group. And Japanese taxpayers definitely don't agree with that practice.

Why is it a secret?

Interac/Selnate avoids to state the obvious connection between Interac and the Mormon Church (LDS), because it would obviously be bad PR for them. It might even get them in trouble with their main client. The Japanese government. A religious group not only feeding but almost controling the stream of English teachers for Japanese Schools? How about Japanese tax payers that waste millions, investing into the mormon church and its aggresive missionary practices? Who wants to work for the mormons without knowing?

It is proven that Interac is owned by Selnate who runs Maxceed and Selti. Selnate.co.jp clearly states it. And it is obvious that American Selnate with its headquarters in Mormon capital Provo Utah - incident? No Selnate's offices are 2 blocks from the BYU University - Selnate and the mormon University BYU work together.

It is a proven fact that the mormon church engages in the very same business in China. The LDS community itself says:

Interac is "owned, operated and controlled by a prominent LDS family in Japan".

Interac's Cofounder: A Mormon Missionary

Roice Krueger is co-founding manager of Interac-Japan, one of the largest training organizations in Japan.?Roice Krueger is an Elder of the Mormon Church, which means he is an official missionary.

Mormonism is not just some private religious belief. It's a lifestyle. If you've ever been to Utah you know what I mean. Keep in mind that 10 percent of every obedient Mormon's income is given to his church unhesitatingly, because he is confident that he is giving to God. And Roice is not just some member, according to his profile Roice is an "Elder" which is not just an older member or something. Elder is a Mormon euphemism that actually means missionary:
Elder. Definition: The proper title given to holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood. The title is used for members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, the First Quorum of the Seventy and for full time missionaries. Also Known As: Missionary. Examples: To serve a mission, a man must become an Elder and receive the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Interac was founded by two Elders (=Mormon missionaries) as an covered mission of the LDS church. As it is forbidden to actively recruit church members, Interac started as a phony English for free institution teaching LDS vocabulary as regular English. All sponsored by the LDS church. In the mean time Interac is a mainly a money maker for LDS Japan. However, a great number of LDS teachers come from BYU, which, as you know are 95% mormons.

Interac's President: Another Missionary

I've got more for you. Once you start reading the Japanese stuff it gets really good. The current President and other co-founder of Interac is called Yasuo Niiyama. He is a missionary just as Roice.

It's surprising how hard it can be to get something black on white that is so obvious if you have a little insider knowledge. Now, how would you prove once and for all that Selnate/Interac is owned by the LDS? You need their business registry documents. Yet the business registry documents will not name LDS, they will name Niiyama and Roice (two mormon missionaries).

Financial Proof?

What else do you need? Financial proof. To prove that money goes from Interac to LDS you need to have access to their books or tax declarations. Well, noone can deliver that evidence unless he has access to the accounting. And even then. They will definitely declare their contribution to LDS as a "donation to a religious institution". Which for tax matters is much smarter than just transfering money through ownership. Or how do you think sects and religious groups finance themselves?

Maybe I should write that book... Or maybe not. Maybe I should just write a letter to the tax office and the BOE. Or get a journalist on the story. Looking for evidence for the evident I discovered more than I expected...

If you have more insider info, please post it in the comments.

URL: http://interac-lds.blogspot.com/ 

Actually, missionaries and evangelists posing as 'English teachers' in south-east asia is not a new phenemenon; its been going on for many years. In India, they enter as 'social workers' or just as ordinary tourists, with bibles instead of their underwear packed in their suitcases - like those four american 'tourists' caught red-handed evangelizing in Raipur (above post).

dhu · 02-04-2007, 06:49 AM

QUOTE(sankara @ Feb 4 2007, 03:04 AM)Actually, missionaries and evangelists posing as 'English teachers' in south-east asia is not a new phenemenon; its been going on for many years.
[right][snapback]63964[/snapback][/right]


anyone understand the missionary hand in the genesis of the vietnam war??

dhu · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2007, 11:19 AM by dhu.)

thanks husky.

we probably need a new thread somewhere on the crimes of the church. does deschner cover the modern period of church savagery? it's just amazing that his work is yet to be translated..

i had remembered coming across a stray comment somewhere implicating kennedy's catholicism.

it's amazing that with all the american anti-vietnam-war sentiment, the role of the church has been completely plastered over. it's a direct parallel to american anti-nazi sentiment being fully dissociated from an appreciation of the catholic pope Pius XII's involvement. amazingly, the nazi collaborator pope pius XII seems to be same one implicated by the author avro manhattan as one of the main architects of vietnam: http://www.reformation.org/chapter7.html

why is it that we are having to piece all this together bit by bit. shouldn't it be common knowledge....

probably they are applying their vietnam model to sri lanka and Nepal.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 02-05-2007, 11:34 AM by Husky.)

QUOTE(dhu @ Feb 4 2007, 11:02 AM)does deschner cover the modern period of church savagery? it's just amazing that his work is yet to be translated..[right][snapback]63989[/snapback][/right]Deschner's own site says that Volume 9, which is still in writing, is coming out end 2007/start of 2008. In documenting christianity, his aim is to go through to the present. He's got a lot to do still, but he'll do it.

QUOTEwhy is it that we are having to piece all this together bit by bit. shouldn't it be common knowledge....Should be, but of course the christian game would be over if it were made common knowledge.

QUOTEprobably they are applying their vietnam model to sri lanka and Nepal.In connection with this: Protestantism applied the Vietnam model to Korea, where the Protestant political leadership of Korea started ensuring that the politicians, army personnel and police were christian. See Buddhism under Siege in Korea 1982-1996 and it's follow up Chronology of Events January 1997-December 1998.

And if you look at India, Sonia Gandhi and her assorted cretins have the same plan, but they're probably planning to implement it over a longer time-frame, so we're like the proverbial frog that doesn't know it's being slowly boiled. Naturally, all of their intention rides on the Indian population's ignorance of christianity's history and its dealings with other countries.
They've got the political base covered with only christos, communists, islamoterrorists, pseculars and corrupt traitors in position in the Indian government. For instance:
QUOTESonia Gandhi ... surrounded herself, as soon as she became Congress party leader, with a clique consisting only of Christians -- eg. Vincent George, Tom Thomas, Tommy Thomas, Margaret Alva, Ajit Jogi, Purno Sangma. [ http://conversionagenda.blogspot.com/2005/...missionary.html ]

Husky · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2007, 01:05 PM by Husky.)

(Continued from prev post)
On the matter of Deschner's series on Christianity's Criminal History:

http://www.deschner.info/en/work/kg/criminalhistory.htm
QUOTEChristianity's Criminal History
Volume 1 - The Early Period
From Old Testament origins to the death of Saint Augustine (430)
Introduction to the entire oeuvre: groups of themes, methodology, problem of objectivity and the problematic nature of historiography in general

Volume 2 - Late Antiquity
From the Catholic "children emperors" to the extermination of the Arian Vandals and Ostrogoths under Justinian I (527-565)

Volume 3 - The Ancient Church
Forgery, Brainwashing, Exploitation, Annihilation

Volume 4 - Early Middle Ages
From King Clovis (ca. 500) to the death of Charles "the Great" (814)

Volume 5 - 9th and 10th Centuries
From Louis the Pious (814) to the death of Otto III (1002)

Volume 6 - 11th and 12th Centuries
From Emperor Henry II "the Holy" (1002) to the end of the Third Crusade (1192)

Volume 7 - 13th and 14th Centuries
From Emperor Henry VI (1190) to the death of Louis IV of Bavaria (1347)According to his web site, Volume 8 covers christianity until the middle of the 16th century (1555 CE), so Vol 9 will continue from there on.

Vol 7 synopsis in English at http://www.deschner.info/index.htm?/en/w...nopsis.htmQUOTESynopsis:
Christianity's Criminal History, Volume 7
13th and 14th Centuries

"The Middle Ages," noted Nietzsche, "is the era of the greatest passions." How these passions expressed themselves in the 13th and 14th Centuries is related by Karlheinz Deschner in the newest volume of his Christianity's Criminal History.

At the beginning of this epoch stood Emperor Henry VI, who claimed for himself dominium mundi, world rule -- with or without the blessing of the Pope. At the end stood Emperor Charles IV, who ruled the Holy Roman Empire until 1378. The most powerful ecclesiastical opponent of this imperium was Pope Gregory IX (1227 to 1241), who demanded from the emperor his right to crusades and who managed internal security by means of the Inquisition.

Events of this period: the decisive power struggle between emperor and papacy, the fall of the Hohenstauffen and the end of papal universal domination, the papal bull "Unam Sanctam," the Mongol Invasion, the Sicilian Vesper, the "Babylonian Captivity" of the popes in exile in Avignon, increasingly devastating anti-Jewish pogroms, crusades in every direction, among them that of Frederick II, the Crusades of Louis I the Holy to Egypt and Tunis, the Crusades of Christians against Christians, against the Albigensians, the Stedinger, the grotesque Children's Crusade, the destruction of the Templars, the destruction of the Pastorells, the notorious terrorist regime of the German Order, the extermination of the "heathen" in the Northeast of Europe, the suppression of the Balts, the Prussians -- and not least the totalitarian Inquisition meant to suppress every stirring of intellectual freedom.

Deschner's meticulous, irrefutable presentation of evidence from eye witnesses who were previously silenced or distorted reveals the very Christian Middle Ages as the high water mark of ruthless power politics involving both secular thrones and the Holy See.

Excerpts from http://www.deschner.info/index.htm?/en/w...xcerpt.htm :
QUOTEChristianity's Criminal History
Volume 7
Excerpt 

Excerpt 1
In the course of sacred history punishments became more and more severe and salutary. The Councils of Reims in 1157 and Oxford in 1160 had imposed facial branding on heretics. Even Innocent III threatened the Albigenses at first "only" with banishment and confiscation. But thereafter capital punishment became more and more frequent with various forms of execution appearing. In Cologne, Nuremberg and Regensburg âhereticsâ were occasionally drowned, in WÃ¼rzburg beheaded, but death by fire became the rule for such an offense.

Death by fire, usually on a holiday, became a demonstration of the Churchâs virtual omnipotence, as a grandiose ritual sacrifice, more popular than any other religious holiday. This human sacrifice was given a Portuguese name, autodafÃ©, which in Latin is actus fidei. It was âan act of faith,â unquestionably the most ardent in the history of religion. Special couriers spread the invitation, the condemned were led forth before crowds of onlookers, special prices were paid for window seats, and every good Catholic who could bring forth wood for the fire was certain of a welcome absolution. This splendid opportunity has been denied the Catholic world since the 19th Century, for the last autodafÃ© was probably celebrated in Mexico in 1815 (the first in 1481 in Seville).

Spiritual and worldly princes participated. The Grand Inquisitor handed over the condemned to the civil authorities following high mass and a sermon in a public square or house of God, not without expressing his heartfelt wish that the âlife and limbsâ of these people might be spared. The condemned were brought to the place of execution, usually wearing a foolâs cap to symbolize their mindless perversity, clothed in bright yellow sackcloth and covered with the most outrageous images of the Devil, so that even the most dimwitted Catholic might easily recognize the spiritual father of these miscreants. These bystanders would often express their brotherly love in the usual fashion: by beating the condemned with canes, pinching them with glowing tongs and sometimes chopping off their right hands. In order to spare the delicate sensibilities of Godâs people, the âhereticsâ were often gagged to muffle their screams, so that nothing could be heard but the almost cozy crackling of the flames and the chanting of the priests. And while the victims, depending on wind direction, either suffocated or slowly roasted to death, the assembled Christian community, nobility, common people and clergy, all sang: âAlmighty God, we praise Thee.â.

The courts of the Inquisition were the noblest courts of the Church and shielded from every profane influence. They were deemed immune to corruption; they usually adorned themselves with the attributes âholyâ and âmost holy.â For the filthier something is, the more it must be verbally rid of filth, embellished, ennobled, elevated to glory and majesty.

Official Church proclamations glorified the Inquisition, as did popes such as Innocent IV and Clemens IV in their papal bulls of March 23, 1254 and February 26, 1266. The inquisitors themselves were placed in an illustrious line of descent stretching back to an entire gallery of glorious Old Testament gangsters, with Saul, e.g., with David (I, 85 ff.!), Joshua (I, 83 f.) and others. But even Jesus, John the Baptist and Peter were numbered in the inquisitorial pedigree. Indeed, God Himself, the expeller of Adam and Eve from Paradise, was viewed as nothing less than the first âinquisitor.â These murdering thugs were in any case agents of the pope. Their derived their plenipotentiary authority everywhere and at all times from him alone..

Prisons of the Inquisitions, Places of Unspeakable Cruelty
The courts of the Inquisition were opened by an invocation to the Holy Spirit. Prayer also preceded the pronouncement of judgment. The verdict, however, even in cases of extreme doubt, was not subject to appeal to secular courts, which functioned merely as an executive tool of the Church courts, whose sentences they were to carry out âblindlyâ (coeca obedientia) and âwith closed eyesâ (oculis clausis).

Numerous papal bulls sharply admonished the princes to damn well do their duty. Not only the doges of Venice were finally obliged by their oath of office to burn heretics. Otto IV of the Welf dynasty promised âeffective supportâ in the eradication of âevil heresiesâ as much as his opponent, Frederick II of the Hohenstaufen dynasty, who in fact went further and demanded of all his subordinates, consuls, and rectors that âthey in their respective lands make every effort to exterminate everyone designated by the Church as a heretic.â This obligation was confirmed by a public oath, under penalty of deposition and loss of their lands. These oaths proved to be effective.

The popes did everything in their power to ensure that the demands and orders of the inquisitors be quickly obeyed, that the inquisitors themselves be granted armed escort, and especially that the inquisitorial decrees be incorporated into the secular law codes. Innocent IV wrote in his bull âCum adversus haereticamâ of May 28, 1252:
âAs the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick has pass certain laws against the heretical evil, by which laws the spread of this plague might be hindered, and as we desire that these laws be observed for the strengthening of the faith and the salvation of the faithful, so we order the beloved sons who are in authority to incorporate these laws, whose exact wording is attached, into their statues, and to proceed against the heretics with great zeal. Therefore we order you [the inquisitors], when these authorities fulfill our orders carelessly, to force them to compliance by means of excommunication and interdiction ... We utterly curse those who have fallen from the Catholic faith, we pursue them with punishment, we rob them of their fortunes, deny them succession and revoke any and all their rights.â

The usual punishment for âhereticsâ was incarceration, often for life. In a partially preserved register of sentences of the Inquisition in Toulouse from the years 1246 to 1248, of 149 prisoners six were serving 10 years, 16 an indeterminate time based on the discretion of the Church, and 127 were serving life terms.

The prisons of the Inquisition were places of unimaginable cruelty, dark and confined by papal prescription, usually without any light or ventilation but full of filth and stench. The clergy filled these places to the point that Gregory IX ordered the building of more and promised generous indulgences to Christians who would contribute to their construction. Sentences served in these hellholes were far worse than any quick death by fire at the stake. Men and women often languished for years without being sentenced or acquitted. A man by the name of Wilhelm Salavert was first interrogated on February 24, 1300 and finally sentenced on September 30, 1319, after 19 years of uninterrupted misery. A woman in Toulouse was âreprieved to bearing the Crossâ after lying in the local prisons for 33 years.

(taken from Karlheinz Deschnerâs Christianityâs Criminal History, Volume 7, p. 260 ff.)

Excerpt 2
Torture, the Most Compelling Instrument of Christian Brotherly Love
Of the three types of Inquisitorial conviction -- purification, recantation, torture -- "torture is the most suitable. Because heresy is difficult to prove, the judge of the Inquisition should be inclined toward the use of torture: ad torturam judex debet esse promptior." (Antonius Diana, Consultant to the Sicilian Inquisition)

Augustine, both saint and doctor of the Church and the archetype of all medieval "heretic"-hunters, had already allowed torture against the Donatists, defending it as a trifle when compared to the agonies of hell. He called it a "cure," an "emendatio."

Bishop Anselm of Lucca among others in the 11th Century further developed Augustine's "heresy" argumentation. Expelled by his own clergy in 1080, he had a quite correct understanding of Augustine: proceeding against evil is not persecution but an expression of love. And Bishop Bonizo of Sutri, blinded and maimed by his own Christians in 1089, called for "combating" schismatics and worse dissenters "with all vigor and weapons." He did not hesitate to attribute to Augustine the view "that all those are blessed who persecute for the sake of righteousness."

This most compelling instrument of Christian brotherly love was already being employed north of the Alps during the Carolingian period but did not being to flourish until the 13th Century when Innocent IV, in his bull "Ad exstirpanda" of 1252, called for the use of torture and its canonical regulation in the fight against "heretics" in northern Italy. This policy expanded to include all of Italy in 1256 and was confirmed in the following years by Popes Alexander IV and Clemens IV. In 1261 Urban IV allowed inquisitors, under whose direction delinquents expired from this rather more robust manner of opinion research, to mutually absolve one another. It was after all not permitted to torture to death a person being questioned. In such a case the inquisitor would face excommunication, from which he could be immediately freed, however, by a priest of the Inquisition uttering the formula: Ego te absolvo.

(taken from Karlheinz Deschnerâs Christianityâs Criminal History, Volume 7, p. 266ff)

It seems that several of his other books (not part of this series) have covered the 20th century popes, and the general case: christianity and fascism, church and fascism and Clerical Fascism (term in scholarship).
List from http://freetruth.50webs.org/A7c.htm
QUOTE- Mit Gott und den Faschisten. Der Vatikan im Bunde mit Mussolini, Franco, Hitler und Pavelic by Church historian Karlheinz Deschner
"With God and the Fascists. The Vatican in league with Mussolini, Franco, Hitler and Pavelic"
(Referring to the Catholic fascist dictators of Italy, Spain, Germany and Croatia respectively.)
- Kirche und Faschismus, Karlheinz Deschner
"Church and Fascism"QUOTE- Ein Jahrhundert Heilsgeschichte. Von Leo XIII. 1878 bis zu Pius XI. 1939. Die Politik der PÃ¤pste im Zeitalter der Weltkriege by Church historian Karlheinz Deschner
"A century of Salvation history. Of Leo XIII 1878 up to Pius XI 1939. The Politics of the Popes in the times of the World Wars."
- Die Vertreter Gottes. Eine Geschichte der PÃ¤pste im 20. Jahrhundert. by Karlheinz Deschner
"God's representative. A history of the Popes of the 20th century"
- Die Politik der PÃ¤pste im 20. Jahrhundert by Karlheinz Deschner
"Papal politics in the 20th century", also available as one of 15 essays in Deschner's Opus Diaboli.
- Mit Gott und dem FÃ¼hrer - Die Politik der PÃ¤pste zur Zeit des Nationalsozialismus by Karlheinz Deschner
"With God and the Fuehrer - Papal politics during the time of National Socialism" (the Fuehrer was Hitler's title and Nazism is short for National Socialism)
And finally ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A8.htm )
QUOTEAbermals krÃ¤hte der Hahn - Eine kritische Kirchengeschichte, by Karlheinz Deschner
"The cock crowed once again, a critical Church history"
Opus Diaboli - 15 unversÃ¶hnliche Essays Ã¼ber die Arbeit im Weinberg des Herrn, by Karlheinz Deschner, containing 15 essays about various facets of Christianity.I think 'Opus Diaboli' means devil's (diabolical?) work (cf. Opus Dei - works of gawd). In Spanish or Portuguese 'Diablo' means devil.

dhu · (This post was last modified: 02-05-2007, 09:16 AM by dhu.)

QUOTE(Husky @ Feb 4 2007, 12:21 PM)In connection with this: Protestantism applied the Vietnam model to Korea, where the Protestant political leadership of Korea started ensuring that the politicians, army personell and police were christian. See Buddhism under Siege in Korea 1982-1996 and it's follow up Chronology of Events January 1997-December 1998.

korea was not the first application of this model. Both sun yat sen and Chiang Kai shek were christians :

QUOTEChina's Christian warrior - Time magazine
"To my mind the reason we should believe in Jesus is that He was the leader of a national revolution," he later said. (Kai shek)
QUOTESun Yat SenÂ Sun died of liver cancer in Beijing while negotiating with leaders of the northern government on 12 Mar 1925. He was given a private Christian funeral service on 19 Mar at the chapel next to the Beijing Union Medical College.

There were some pretty wrenching local millenial movements in South China (such as Taiping). In addition to the imperial level missionary intrigue known as the Boxer rebellion in which all the western nations at least appeared to act in tandem (including japan)

The only question is whether the missionary enterprise factors in the Communists as part of their long range (in terms of decades if not centuries') objectives. In both the cases of China and Vietnam, the Commuinsists seem to have retarded rapid christianization, while still laying the mental groundwork for eventual christianization.

02-05-2007, 04:39 PM

how Roman empire become christian,Constantine movie
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...3453910631

dhu · (This post was last modified: 02-06-2007, 12:04 AM by dhu.)

QUOTE32. I have saved the best for the last. All of us vividly remember Jesusâs response to his accusers: âYou have said itâ (su legeis).
These two words are exactly what Charudatta utters when he is accused by his own accuser Samsthanaka: âYou have said itâ (tvayi yavoktam). http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/thundy.html

dhu · (This post was last modified: 02-06-2007, 12:11 AM by dhu.)

QUOTE(ramana @ Feb 2 2007, 10:39 PM)Is the end of times a distorted version of kalki?[right][snapback]63922[/snapback][/right]

quite probable.

the zacharias thundy and christian lindtner group has pretty much proved the buddhist origin of the jesus narrative.

QUOTEIs Jesus and Metteyya, the next would-be buddha the same person ?

There are reasons to believe this supposition of Jesus as Maitreya (Sanskrit), viz.

1. The second coming of Jesus and the appearance of Metteyya before this world ends is a strong coincidence.

2. Jesus is believed to be in Heaven at present and Metteyya is also in Tushita heaven awaiting for his final life as a buddha.
...
thejesusanomaly

02-06-2007, 03:31 AM

hmmmm... who are the obvious suspects??

QUOTEÂ

64 shops gutted in Tirupati Tirumala fire

Pioneer News Service | HyderabadÂ

A massive fire atop Tirumala Hills, near the temple precincts, in the wee hours of Monday destroyed about 64 shops causing damage to property worth crores of rupees.

Authorities attributed electric short circuit as the cause of fire. The fire broke out in the shopping complex in front of one of the offices of the Tirumala Tirupati Devesthanam at around 3.30 am and it took two hours to bring it under control.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 02-06-2007, 11:30 AM by Husky.)

Post 261:
Wouldn't rule out a christo hand in it at all. It's what christos did with clockwork regularity in Korea, after all. Quoting from http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/2.html with additional paras above and below to give some context:
QUOTE(1989)
April. The Hyangmok Committee of the Seoul City Government gathers military reserve forces under its control for a (taesÃ´nghoe) church service. Some of the members are compelled to attend even though they are not Christian.Â

July 29. The huge main Dharma Hall and a temple dormitory at Potasa Temple, Oksudong, SÃ´ngdonggu, Seoul are completely burned to the ground. A 23-year old follower of the TaesÃ´njillihoe (Great Conversion Truth Church) is arrested at the scene.Â Damage is estimated at $1.1 million according to the Chogye Order report.
(2 buildings)Â

October 27. The huge TaeunjÃ´n, the main Dharma Hall, and a temple dormitory at PohyÃ´nsa Temple in Taegu are completely burned to the ground. Though the modern buildings were erected in 1985, the police determine that each building must have suffered an "electrical short circuit," and no further investigations are conducted.
(2 buildings)Â

1990 May 2. Two men break into the Buddhist Broadcasting System (BBS, the first Buddhist radio station in Korea) in Seoul, two days before it is due to begin broadcasting a combination of popular music and Buddhist teaching and cultural programs. They tie up two guards, and proceed to destroy all of the radio station's recording and transmission equipment. They smash expensive electronic gear and tear up several state-of-the-art recording booths. At one point, they use a statue of the Buddha as a battering ram to break through several plate-glass recording booth windows and use the Buddha's head to damage computer equipment, sound boards, reel-to-reel decks, and screens. Damage is estimated in the millions of dollars, and delays the opening of the station by several months. No arrests are ever made.QUOTE(1991)
Sept. 23. Pudo Am Hermitage at Tonghwasa Temple is destroyed by fire.
(1 building)Â

Oct. 15. Haeundae Buddhist Mission Bldg in Pusan is destroyed by fire.
(1 building)Â

October. The huge main Dharma Hall (TaeunjÃ´n) at PongwÃ´nsa Temple in the Shinch'on district of Seoul is totally destroyed by fire.Â The hall was registered as Seoul city Cultural Asset Number 68. This temple was the headquarters of the T'aego Order, the second-largest Buddhist sect in Korea at the time of the incident. A guard at the temple testified to seeing two men flee into the mountains behind the temple as the building burst into flames.Â Local police conclude that there is no evidence, that there was probably an "electrical short circuit," and the fire was quickly declared "an accident." Three large Buddha statues and altar portraits considered treasures are destroyed.
(1 building)Â

November. Military reserves stationed in KyÃ´ngnam Province (many of them Buddhist) are forced to attend a Protestant revival meeting, presumably by a superior officer.
When one takes into account the big picture (that is, see the event as part of the entire chronology and in context of other related events), one can't rule out christoterrorism in accomplishing this miracle of gawd. Especially since christianity has been desperately active in the temple area for quite some time now. They could have got fed up with how things were only going at a snail's pace and thought about speeding up the conquest for christ.

#261:QUOTEA massive fire atop Tirumala Hills, near the temple precincts, in the wee hours of Monday destroyed about 64 shops causing damage to property worth crores of rupees.The innocent christos will come rushing in with their looted money to 'help the unfortunate Hindus' (who lost their livelihood thanks to the fire) 'get back on their feet again'. The price? Their eternal gratitude: please accept jeebus as your lawd.
Spiffy plan, must say. Whatever started the fire, the miracle could well work out in a most gawdly manner.

02-06-2007, 07:35 PM

googled for tirupati tirumala fire... there was only one of news item in khaleejtimes. Something is really rotten here.

google search

Husky · (This post was last modified: 02-11-2007, 06:48 AM by Husky.)

Concerning the article pasted in post 81 of the Islamism thread 'The Study of Political Islam'
I'm all for the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Would that they could make sensible arguments, though! In trying to lay bare the problems of Islam, trying to use christianity as a counter-example is a very bad plan. It can only backfire.

Blue statements below are excerpted from the said article. There are too many statements to pick out, but some of them include:

How many Christians can tell you how Turkey or Egypt became Islamic?
Then why not also ask how many of the same christians are willing to tell of how Turkey (Anatolia which became part of christo Byzantine Empire) and Egypt became Christian?
Coptic christians were mobbing vandals ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as described by their contemporaries the pagan Greco-Romans and Egyptians.

Letâs examine the ethical basis of our (western?) civilization. All of our politics and ethics are based upon a unitary ethic that is best formulated in the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would be treated.
Yeah, the Chinese philosopher Confucius (500 BCE?) is the basis of western civilisation then. There is no doubt that "Do unto others...." in the NT derives from pre-christian sources:
QUOTEThe Golden Rule has been ascribed to Christ. Was he its author?
Five hundred years before the time of Christ, Confucius taught
"What you do not like when done to yourself do not to others."
Centuries before the Christian era Pittacus, Thales, Sextus, Isocrates and Aristotle taught the same.
-- The Christ, John E. Remsberg ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/B1a.htm )
And as far as it is true that islamics don't follow the principle Confucius laid down, it is equally true that christians do not either: else why do they get separate treatment? Why can they genocide entire populations to convert them to the christoterror, whilst the victimised cultures are not even allowed to protest without being accused of 'persecuting christians'.

Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.
Just like christianity has always done as well ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ).

What accounts for the almost psychotic aversion to knowledge about Islam? Beyond fear is the realization that political Islam is profoundly foreign to us.
No. In reality, it is the fear of or inability to properly identify the fundamental problems and intolerance in Islam, and realising that these are equally present in christianity. That is why the christian answeringislam sites are all really very bad in tackling islam at a logical and well-reasoned level. They never point out the real problems because these are shared by both religions.
Instead, some of their arguments descend to comedy, like how 'Allah isn't the same as biblical gawd Jehovah (as is claimed), because Allah is the pagan moon God of Arabia'. Such statements keep the score level (christians: 0 - muslims: 0).

There have been other dualistic cultures. The KKK comes to mind. But the KKK is a simplistic dualism. The KKK member hates all black people at all times; there is only one choice. This is very straightforward and easy to see.
Bad cover-up. KKK is a devoutly christian denominational sect. It is a subsect of the Southern Baptist Church. It is in no way a separate dualistic culture. Not long ago, the whole Southern Baptist Church held to the same anti-African beliefs as the KKK does today.

The largest part of the Trilogy relates to treatment of the unbelievers, kafirs. Even Hell is political. There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran.
Somewhere on either secularweb, internet infidels or some other atheist site, they did a statistical break-down of the babble. The proportion of gawd being, doing or commanding evil was far greater than him and jesus saying or doing positive things. NT threatens with damnation every turn, while the OT has a lot to say about how gawd 'smote' or otherwise genocided creatures.

Only 6% of those in Hell are there for moral failingsâmurder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime. Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak against Islam.
Christian hell is as political as islamic jekinnah/jahannam. All those who do not accept jeebus go to hell. Throughout christian history this has been the one promise of the church and of the keepers of christian doctrine and teaching. That's why unbaptised infants went straight to hell (a christo belief strictly adhered to from Augustine until at least 19th century), as did all 'unreached' peoples. Changes to soften this unforgiving doctrine are very recent and made by apologists, but have no basis in either the bible or christian theology.

To reiterate, all of science is based upon the law of contradiction. If two things contradict each other, then at least one of them has to be false. But inside of Islamic logic, two contradictory statements can both be true. Islam uses dualistic logic and we use unitary scientific logic.
Since Islam has a dualistic logic and dualistic ethics, it is completely foreign to us.
But it is not foreign to christians either, because christianity believes in a 'loving, merciful' gawd, though he is a genocidal gawd who threatens with eternal damnation for all those who won't accept/believe in him. So the dualistic logic is as present in christianity and is as sensible to christians as it is to islam and its followers.

Blacks donât want to face the fact that it was a Muslim who rounded up their ancestors in Africa to wholesale to the white slave trader.
And then the christians (which all the 'white slave traders' were) set up shop themselves and started catching and selling Africans.

Blacks canât accept the common bond they share with whites: that both Europeans and Africans were slaves under Islam.
Some Africans do know that islamics enslaved them. Yes, both Europeans and Africans were enslaved by islam. And it is also true that christianity for a long time enslaved Europeans too (both non-christian and christian). But like Islam, christian Europeans viewed all African peoples as potential slaves, whereas christian Europe did not view all of its own people as slaves. African *meant* slave for all intents and purposes to both christians and muslims. (And that too whether the African converted or not.)
In short, white slavery under islam overlaps with only a subset of all of the African slavery experience.

The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. [...] The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Author conveniently forgot to mention:
'The Christian Crusading Conquest of Constantine (first christo emperor of Rome) exploded into the world of the heathens. The Christian conquest destroyed a pagan Middle east and pagan North Africa: i.e. it destroyed the ancient Greco-Roman civilisation. The history of christianity is the destruction of paganism in all of Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm ), as well as North Africa and the Middle East including Levant which were then part of the Roman Empire. Most of pagan Europe was lost, and later all of it was lost in the official Crusades against the remaining pagans of northeastern Europe ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2c.htm#NorthernCrusades )

Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Before Christianity, North Africa was the pagan southern part of the pagan Roman Empire, christianity merely inherited this. Christianity killed the Greco-Roman civilisation. Countless millions of Europe were genocided in christianity's conversion drives in the continent.
(Note also that the above tries to give meaning to 'Europe': though North Africa is Arabian and Berber and the like, it would be considered part of Europe as long as it was christian. But pagan Rome never regarded northern Europe as related to it... not Roman.)

The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Greatâs army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died.
Umm, did the writer just imply that Alexander's men either genocided or intermarried with all the Iranian and Indian Afghans so that the only people left in the region during islamic invasion were descended from Greeks? Well, he's wrong. By far the most were completely Afghan, only a few had Greek ancestry.

In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
Yeah, and now he ought not to forget to list how many millions of African 'animists' were genocided in the long process of converting Africa to christianity. And it still continues. As does the islamic j-had against African Religion.

Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam.
And 200 million+ in the Americas alone thanks to christianity. See for instance http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm

Christians believe that âlove conquers all.â
Huh? If 'love' means christianity, then 'tis true: love (christian genocide) has conquered nearly all except islam:
Well, love does not conquer Islam.
That's right. Christian 'love' (the crusades) did not conquer islam's 'love'.
Christians have a difficult time seeing Islam as a political doctrine, not a religion.
They're having a difficult time seeing that christianity is the same as islam, and that will always be until a christian stops being a christian.

The victims deny that the abuse took place: Our media never reports the majority of jihad around the world. Our intellectuals donât talk about how all of the violence is connected to a political doctrine.
Classic case of christian converts in India too (as indeed those conditioned by christianity: the pseudo-seculars and communists). Descendants of victims (converts) under Portuguese terror deny that the christo abuse took place. Media never reports on the christoterrorism and genocide by christianity around the world ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview4.htm ). Intellectuals don't talk about how all of the violence is connected to christian doctrine.

Political Islam has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to. The total time for annihilation takes centuries, but once Islam is ascendant it never fails. The host culture disappears and becomes extinct.
Either the author is the typical christian hypocrite or really ignorant of christianity. Christianity has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to (or at least tried to). The last two sentences in the quote above also apply to christianity.
India has survived islamic, christian and communist attack - but not for lack of trying by the latter three. Show me another country that survived all three. (China swallowed up by communism, Greece's Anatolia and even Persia taken over by Islam, Greece and Rome by christianity.)

We must learn the doctrine of political Islam to survive. The doctrine is very clear that all forms of force and persuasion may and must be used to conquer us. Islam is a self-declared enemy of all unbelievers. The brilliant Chinese philosopher of war, Sun Tsu, had the dictumâknow the enemy. We must know the doctrine of our enemy or be annihilated.
Right back at him: replace islam with christianity above. Christianity has declared that it will convert all of the unconverted (see their plan in Joshua Project).

Or put another way: if we do not learn the doctrine of political Islam, our civilization will be annihilated just as Egyptâs Coptic civilization was annihilated.
If we do not learn the doctrines of both islam and christianity, all natural religionists will be annihilated just as Egypt's pagan civilisation (pre-terrorist-Coptic christians) were by the christians as was the rest of the Roman Empire and Greece. Likewise, we'll be annihilated by islam just like Persia was.

My point is this: Christoislamism is one religion. It is the same religion. Of course its two major denominations don't agree with each other, but then the sunnis and shias don't see eye to eye either, and nor do the millions of christian sects.
But in all ways and to all other people, christoislamism is one and the same intolerant ideology.

02-08-2007, 09:21 PM

QUOTEhttp://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2007/200702021_Republic_Day_India_issues.htm
Lest We Forget this Republic Day
_By John Dayal
Friday, 2 February 2007

"But for his father opting to undergo Shuddhi, the first Dalit ChiefÂ Justice of India would have been a Christian" - Kerala Columnist N Kunju, writing against Conversions in the Republic Day special issue of The Organiser, the official organ of the Rasthriya Swayamsevak Sangh. The special issue features the entire stable of Christian and MuslimÂ baiters in Indian journalism hitting out at Sonia Gandhi and Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh for their economic affirmative policies for MuslimsÂ following the Sachchar Committee report last month.

Incidentally, one of the first major issue before new Chief Justice Balakrishna's Bench in April would be the Dalit Christian demand forÂ equity with their Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist Scheduled Caste brothers in matters of education, employment, and civil rights.

By the way, the `Shudhhi that Kunju writes about is the so called purification rituals carried out by way of forcible and fraudulentÂ conversions to Hinduism of Christians in the notorious Ghar Wapsi programmes now beingÂ openly carried out by the Sangh in many states across the country. And ifÂ Dalits in government employment were to convert to Islam or Christianity, theyÂ would be sacked; their children would lose their seats in schools and colleges. If they said they were Hindus, they would get the jobs back.

John Dayal may be contacted at _johndayal@vsnl.com_
(mailto:johndayal@vsnl.com)
What is John Dayal doing at Milli Gazette? Sounds like he is inciting Muslims against Hindus thru this write-up.

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