A small experiment to foster some discussion on wide array of complex topics that ail our motherland. I was witness to some email exchanges on this topic and have requested the participants to discuss it here in this particular thread.
We all have a list of grievances and complaints about the all things wrong about India and have strong views on how things should be fixed. In a internet forum, we might not be able to solve any of these problems, but we can certainly learn the different and diverse perspectives we Indians hold about such issues and if possible list solutions for the same.
I envision this thread to be a hodge-podge mix of several different topics that we already cover on this forum, so might request one of the senior moderator/member to moderate this thread.
We need another Adi Sankara like perosn to unify the nation from Kamarup to Ujjain Kashmir to Kanyakumari.
The citizens should feel we are one, Together we can, we must and we will achieve peace, prosperity through equity.
The notion sarve jano sukhino bhavantu should be translated into action, for this
Education, Empowerment, Equity, Opportunity are four pillars that need to be implanted in the minds of the youth.
ABility of the Indian elite to think clearly
and figure out what should be the place of India and Indians in the world with respect to others.
THis clarity is very important and has not been done.
This is a worthwhile thread but could easily degenerate into a whinefest, as one can write a book (several books) on the topic of the thread. Some rules need to be followed in order to keep it focused. First when suggesting a remedy , do not ask for pie in the sky (the return of the Mahdi, the Messiah, Adi Sankara etc.). Keep it grounded in reality. This is the 21st century and the times do not favor the rise of charismatic and riveting personalities. So what to do.
I say discourage the use of the passive voice (this is the way things should be) and encourage the use of the first person singular active voice (what can I do).
Start small and focus on things that can be fixed. I humbly assert that topics such as corruption in India are too big to tackle for one person. It is better to break it down into manageable bits that suggest solutions that can be implemented by small groups of people. ( a manageable plan is - i will bribe only after i have made a genuine attempt at legal approaches and exhausted all available means and not bribe at the first opportunity)
Think clearly and do not get distracted by extraneous issue (focus, focus,focus) and avoid getting into slanging matches - i dont like your ideas therefore you must have been born as a cockroach in your previous life or even this life -. Little drops of water make a mighty ocean. Emulate successful people like Abdul kalaam.
Avoid emotional and sentimental approaches.
Take it one day at a time and do not attempt grandiose schemes without enough spadework.
Above all have patience.Hasten Slowly as Swami Chinmayananda writes. India did not get to where it is in one day and it will take years to repair the damage.
Last but not least make up your own list of dos and donts that suits your personality. No two individuals are alike and this is definitely a case where one size doeso not fit all. My list may reflect my own weaknesses and experiences. Hopefully the rules above apply to a large enough number .
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We need another Adi Sankara like perosn to unify the nation from Kamarup to Ujjain Kashmir to Kanyakumari. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adi Shankaracharya, and Chanakya Vishnugupta are my heroes when it comes to unification of Bharat which - in their times - was highly divided. Both these mahaans were not from "influential" families. They had however good education, and excelled as AUTHORITIES in their field. They were both motivated by a higher goal, i.e. Unification of the nation (be it under political umbrella or spiritual.) Both had taken proactive steps to counter divisive forces.
Chanakya and Adi Shankaracharya approached only Decision makers. Shankaracharya ideologically won over Tarkikas, Mimamsikas, Naiyayikas etc, and so did Chanakya - winning over Political powers - like Kings, oligarchies, confederacies etc.
Today we DO have people of that calibre who CAN make change, it could be you and I. In the age of Information and disinformation, opinions are mand for a pana (dime a dozen).
My two cents on what ails Bharat:
1) <b>Accouuntability:</b> A country of a 1000 million people has a tremendous potential to be a powerhouse. But each person wants something out of the system than giving to the system. (When we had a Dharmic law, each one HAD to do their swadharma with no questions asked. Now things are different.) Once Responsibility and accountability is inculcated, and rewards and punishments are enforced at ALL levels, things will change.
2) <b>Focus:</b> Knowing what to focus on is the key. Not everybody can know and do everything. Each person should know their strengths and weakness, and in accordance take up a profession/vocation where they can excel. At the moment, incompetence is promoted by nepotism, bribe and other such means.
3) <b>Leadership:</b> Like Spinster aptly put it, Education, Empowerment, Equity, Opportunity. This can only be brought about by a strong leader. Unless the masses buy into it, no change can be enforced. E.g. the Janmabhoomi scheme by Naidu garu of Andhra.
Not really an ailment as such but steps taken towards better interaction infrastructure-wise between different corners of the country. Nationa-Highways/river-interlinking are good steps in the right direction. In these days of unadulterated globalisation we should also concentrate on ways to promote inter-state, inter-district and inter-city trade.
One thing that I have always dreamed-of (pie in the sky maybe) is a different form of taxation where the tax payer actually decides which project their tax gets used. Different projects then vie for the tax payer money in order to survive.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing that I have always dreamed-of (pie in the sky maybe) is a different form of taxation where the tax payer actually decides which project their tax gets used. Different projects then vie for the tax payer money in order to survive. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not wish to give the impression that one should not dream and have big dreams and a vision for the future. By all means go ahead and have a dream (as P.kalam says), but then one should follow up the dream with a plan for execution and to make the dream a reality. To analyze a problem is not enough , one must take it to the next step and design a solution. A solution involves creativity and synthesis, and is in general a more difficult activity than analyzing a problem.
It is pie in the sky only if one does nothing about the dream. One of the things we can learn from the Americans is the extent of activism there is on various issues. If a person feels passionately about something then one must go after it with gusto and vigor with a lot of voluntary effort. Merely to wait for a great personality like Adi Sankara to amble along once every millenium, is not very productive and encourages the notion that I cannot do anything until Adi Sankara comes, so that takes the monkey of my back. Adi Sankaras may come and go (who know when)but we are already here and a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The fact of the matter is that the divine spirit and the potential to be an Adi Sankara exists in every human being, it is just that it is covered up by a myriad issues until we forget who we really are.
My point is that when highlighting what ails the country one must be prepared to offer a solution and that solution must be something that can be initiated by an individual. Let me give an instance, which is something that happened when i was in india for the last few months.
Vizag like most medium and smaller sized cities does not have regular garbage collection . As a general rule i have observed that when there is no garbage collection the whole city becomes a garbage dump. Our domestic help used to throw the garbage from our house in the drainage channel that runs outside the house by the street which in turn used to get clogged with refuse. We wonder why Indian cities are dirty when compared to other cities of the world. Well this is one reason why.
So I started picking up the garbage from the drain and carrying it to the nearest garbage container. The domestic help saw me do it for a couple of days and then she started doing it too. Furthermore she promised me she would never throw it in the street drain again.The next time i go i plan to ask the city why there is no regular garbage removal from the container and to offer garbage removal service to each household for a fee. Initially there may not be takers (why spend money on garbage ask the indian einsteins ) but as they see the effect on beautification of the city more and more people will be convinced to open their wallets and shell out money for garbage removal. This is not earthshaking like sending a rocket into space but goes a long way to make the cities of india more livable.
So the next time we think of what ails India , lets think of a solution simultaneously, not a solution that puts the monkey on the back of a PM sitting in Delhi, but, a doable solution in which preferably each of us has a part to play.
This does not mean that one should not think of schemes like highway projects , modern airport projects and joining of rivers etc. But even in those instances, there is a role to play for the average (RK)Laxman. One of his roles is to work to get the right people elected.
Just to add very few lines here at this time.
1) Hindus never feel superior as a community but they feel so as individuals. That's why we constantly fight among ourselves all the time unlike muslims and christians.
2) We have leaders who always try to supress the "retaliatory" tendencies and emotions of Hindu masses, be it against Pak terrorism or muslim sabotage within the country. So, the same Vajpayee who take advantage of the suppressed emotions of the Hindus while enunciating his peace policies with Pakistan find himself at a disadvantage when he tries to arouse people's emotions on foreigner's ruling this country. It cannot go both the ways. Next time Pakistan attacks us in J&K or anywhere, BJP should stop supressing people's anger. Let it come out in the open. Then see how Sonia Gandhi will be treated in the next general elections. They will kick her out of the country.
3) When BJP came to power in 1999, it's agenda was to change the system, not let itself manipulated by the system. That is what BJP ended up with in 2004.
4) When Congress prepares for elections, it distributes seats based on region, caste, creed and religion. BJP ended up doing the same. It was supposed to unite the Hindus. Instead it ended up with corrupt and criminal elements just like Congress.
5) BJP said that national security was one of it's strong points. How many national security experts and ex-military men were given party seats to contest in the previous and current elections for parliament? How many think tanks, defense institutes, how many memorials for fallen soldiers in cities other than New Delhi were established during it's rule?
6) Terrorist attacks continue on this country even today as I write this message. What measures did BJP take to "SECURE" the borders and scrutinize every visitor coming into the country. Many people from Pak and Bangladesh entered this country and disappeared. Every such person may not be a threat but he/she is a potential threat to our country. What measures were taken to detect and prevent such occurences in future? How many illegal immigrants were deported? To this day there is no talk about creating a federal police force in the lines of FBI of USA. Law & order should be placed under the joint control of center and states, not just state govt.'s as practised now. Advani knows only to talk about national security but he doesn't know how to achieve it. After all, he was a kakhi knickerwallah RSS guy at one time. One thing I know about these RSS guys is that they know what they want but they don't know how to achieve it.
7) BJP promised scrapping article 370 in 1999 and now it won't even talk about it. If one state is given preferential treatement under the constitution, there will always be argument for such treatment from other sectionss.
8) Our federal govt. was weakned enough already in the name of federalism. Now BJP talks about more federalism. Delhi decides one economic policy and each states goes in it's won direction. So we have 30 odd economic and national security policies in this country. That is not a sign of becoming a super power. Federal govt. should have powers to punish states that do not perform and reward states that perform. Right now we keep rewarding states like UP & Bihar by pumping more money.
9) Though the final word on national security should rest with the PM and his core team, the military establishment should be given a major role in framing policy issues, debates, feedback before it reaches the PM's desk.
9) BJP leaders are shamelessly claiming that they are occupying the political space left by Congress as a national party. I have no idea how it is going to help the people. Whatever we got in Congress, whatever we suffered under congress, we see the same now under BJP. We are just seeing a different set of people. So what?
When BJP came to power in 1999, it was the right party with the right agenda. Now in 2004, all those hopes were dashed. Why? Because we let a grand old man called Vajpayee hijack BJP's agenda, Hindus agenda for the sake of his personal legacy.
Lately he frequently quotes that India and Pakistan needs to make compromises on Kashmir to move forward. Haven't we made enough sacrifises already? If not, why is that huge chunk of Indian land under the control of China and POK under Pakistan? Wasn't that enough?
Let's make this dream come true. Check it out. It's fun
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/arti...632447.cms
rajesh_g
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing that I have always dreamed-of (pie in the sky maybe) is a different form of taxation where the tax payer actually decides which project their tax gets used. Different projects then vie for the tax payer money in order to survive<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the school voucher system which some advocate in US comes closest to what you are stating here. It's like someone saying this public school system funded by my tax $ is no good, give me credit so that I can go to private school. I can see this being a source of heartburn to other tax $.
Another analogy: at times local cities or states in US vote on certain referendums which might be another form of tax payer deciding on the projects they wish to see their $ go to (or not).
Kaushal:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact of the matter is that the divine spirit and the potential to be an Adi Sankara exists in every human being, it is just that it is covered up by a myriad issues until we forget who we really are.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There might hundreds of <i>mini-me</i> Adi Sankara's around the nation who are doing their bit to build or strenghten the roots of the community (ultimately the nation). We really need to indentify them and encourage them - be it helping them monetrarily or simple guestures of kind words or kuduos of encouragement on the back. Also, if possible use them as role models in our own act and deeds.
I'm sure there are couple hundred NGOs or charitable organizations etc who too are involved in such an efforts. I guess the first step would be to identify them and list them somewhere.
Kaushal garu,
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is pie in the sky only if one does nothing about the dream. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sharing a dream would qualify as doing something, right ? Especially for something that is shared - like matroobhoomi ?
Viren,
Yes you are right. The problem with our setup is this. Each person, community, district, state, linguistic group, caste, whatever just has to deal with one central entity. On top of that our govt gets elected once every 5 yrs. The citizen just gets involved in nation building just once every 5 years and "gets the monkey off his back" to steal from Kaushalji. Worse our common gujju doesnt have to deal *directly* with a common mallu or common tamil doesnt have to deal with a common bhaiyya. With some kind of mechanism that gets ordinary citizens to deal with each other and in the task of nation-building we will get more involved in the task of nation building (or doing something as Kaushal says) and sarkar-mai-baap will have to involve citizens at important steps and not just once every 5 years..
Sorry, will cut rambling short.. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sharing a dream would qualify as doing something, right <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely. Sharing a dream with others (through fora like these) and uniting a community of people towards a common cause is what it is all about.
I have send an email to the RSS at spokesman_rss@yahoo.com. I am not sure if they take our feedbacks seriously but I am doing my part in letting them know how I feel about this elections.
Sir,
I think Sri Vajpayee messed up this elections big time. This should have been the last election for Sonia Gandhi but the trends indicate that she is actually gaining. The credit for all this goes to Vajpayee, who got carried away with the label of statesman by the secular media. Actually it was a ploy by the media to co-opt him into doing things their way. I do not know what feedback you are getting but having interacted with lots of people here in US, I can tell that RSS/BJP has let down it's supporters all over the world and within India by dropping core issues. In fact people were angry. Just when we thought that we are gaining the upper hand aginst these pseudo-secularists, Vajpayee hijacked our agenda just to protect his legacy. I couldn't believe that RSS let just one man destroy everything you worked so hard to build. If Sonia Gandhi becomes the PM, we all can kiss good bye to all those we hoped for. Compromising with Pakistan, dropping the scrapping of article 370 issue were never favoured by the people. It was all manipulation by the secular media. I am afraid Advaniji is also going in the direction of Vajpayee. The biggest mistake Vajpayee did in this election was to believe that it was a great political strategy to occupy the political space of the Congress. He forgot that real people (read Hindus) do not want anything that resembles Congress. They don't like the way Congress suck upto the mullahs, pandering to their demands and wishes. People want change in the system, not parties. Why will people be energised to come out and vote if they see just another party with the same set of ideas for this nation. Vajpayee blurred that distinction by pandering to the demands and wishes of muslims. Also, BJP got corrupted just like Congress, distributing seats to family members, along caste and religious lines.It's ditto Congress style. Now the problem is people don't see the difference between Congress and BJP. Both Vajpayee and Advaniji WERE great leaders but their time has passed. Now the cause takes precedence over these two leaders.
I believed that RSS should keep out of economic issues and concentrate more on national security, J&K and focus on people, institutes and media that is sabotaging this country from within. You have been dragging the foreign origin issue and Ayodhya issue so long that people are loosing interest in your causes and ideals. Some of the ideas that I wish to forward and which I think will bring back RSS/VHP/BJP to it's glory are as follows. Sorry for being outspoken. Ignore them at your own peril.
1) Force Mr. Vajpayee out of PM's chair. RSS/BJP/VHP should appoint a dynamic and young leader to take over the reins. Even Advaniji is old for this chair. Men at that age has only one thing in mind i.e LEGACY. History proves that all the time. We need someone like Arun Shourie, a great communicator or a leader like Narendar Modi who has the guts to take on these pseudo-secularists single handedly. We need a leader who has the guts of Ariel Sharon, shrewedness of Tony Blair. At any given time we always should have a younger Hindu leader. It is the first pre-requisite for inspiring people.
It never makes good politics to let anyone who is above age 65 to sit in the PM's chair. The job requires the leader to travel the length and breadth of this vast country, meeting people, younger generation, give public speeches at universities, in cities, towns, villages, inspiring them to vote for a cause. That means the leader should be physically fit and mentally strong.
2) The PMO's office should appoint a press secretary and the secretary should interact with the media regularly, speaking the mind of the PM. The PM himself should interact with the media very often. Why is that Musharaaf from a beggar's nation makes more effective usage of foreign trips than our PM's. Reciting peoms and insultating from foreign press on foreign tours doesn't not make sound foreign policy. It's waste of tax payers money.
3) Forget the idea that muslim votes are needed to get into power. They are just 120 millions compared to 850 million Hindus in India. Unite the Hindus.
4) Aggressively push for scrapping article 370 of the constitution. Hindus consider it a blot on our constitution. It is also sensitive to them.
5) Amend the constitution to ban foreign origin people from occupying security sensitive posts like President, VP, PM, DPM, CJI, Defense and Home minister.
6) Highlight the activities of missionaries and madrassas in Doordarshan everyday. Let the secular media bark. Over a period of time, they will be on the defensive. That is what I call proper usage of Doordarshan.
7) Next time, Pakistan or it's terrorists even stage a minor attack in J&K, DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. Do something that hurts them in one way or other. There should be proportional response. These kind of things will always unite Hindus. It's a noble cause.
People punished Sonia Gandhi once before for her role during Kargil war. I wonder how BJP forgot that.
8) Stop all contacts with Pakistan, diplomatic, sports, movies etc.. until they agree to negotiate POK, not J&K. J&K is ours and it is non-negotiable. The talk by the secular media that 80% of Indian population favours peace with Pakistan is a BIG LIE. It only reveals half truth. It is true that Indians want peace with neighbors but not at the cost of making comprmises or loosing territory or self-respect. The secular media in India is very manipulative. While taking polls, they would ask generalised question that goes like this: Do you want peace with Pakistan? Instead the question should be something like this: Do you think it is worth making compromises or giving Kashmir to Pakistan to buy peace with them? Basically the media will not give a choice to the people to speak their mind clearly. Vajpayee fell for it and he thought it will pay rich dividens for him personally and for the BJP if he makes peace with Pakistan.
9) Deal with Bangladesh with an iron hand. Next time, they kill our soldiers or BSF men and play with their dead bodies, go for a covert operation to neutralize every soldier, military commander of Bangladesh who was involved in the act. These kind of things always unite Hindus.
10) Raise BSF batallions, seal the borders and implement a strict visa regime with fingerprinting. Deport as many illegal Bangaldeshis as possible, ignoring the cries of secular media. Highlight the jobs taken away by these illegal immigrants in the NE and W.Bengal. Highlight the security threats to the nation by these illegal immigrants. Nothing pisses off the citizens than the thought of illegal immigrants taking their jobs away.
RSS/VHP have a special role to play on points 8, 9, 10. They may not have any constitutional authority to do so but they could do so through the govt. of BJP.
10) Liberalize the economy. Pursue labor reforms. Pump money into rural infrastructure while not loosing sight of IT and manufacturing sector. The more people get educated, the less likely they will vote for Congress. Expand the tax base to include rich farmers. On economic issues, RSS should maintain a hands of approach. This is one issue where pragmatism is required, not ideaology. Learn from China. Do whatever it takes to keep the GDP growth a minimum 8.5%.
11) RSS should infiltrate our English media. This is the most important and critical task before them. It is not enough if it keeps saying that it is doing something on it. We keep hearing that for the past ten years. Going to remote areas and converting the tribals into Hinduism is like achieving 30% of the goals. The bigger war is going on in the media and that is where we are getting a sound thrashing.
12) The govt. should investigate the funds received by missionaries, madrassas, English newspapers, terrorists in J&K. The supply line should be choked. The press council of India should be mandated to investigate the citizenship status of every journalist working with Indian media organizations. This is a country where you don't need a work permit to get a job. Who knows if Pakistani nationals are working in our media organizations under false names. Let's not forget that a Paki national recently tried to stand for our lok sabha elections using forged documents.
Media is a very critical sector and some independent commission should keep a watchful eye, if not the govt. directly.
13) Create a federal police force and get a grip on internal security. The federal govt. should also find a way to insulate the state police forces from political influence. Borrow some ideas from western countries if necessary. This is one area that needs immediate attention. Ethics and moral values should also be a factor in recruitments and promotions.
14) Ethics and moral values should become a factor in all walks of life, be it the politicans, beauracracy, govt. departments, law enforcement agencies, school books and judiciary.
15) Weed out all corrupt elements who entered BJP in the past 5 years. Only people who believe in our causes should be given role in the party. Anyone who is caught taking bribes should be kicked out of the party, no matter how high he is.
16) Reserve seats to national security experts and ex-military men. We need them badly in our parliament. If they cannot manage to win lok sabha polls, they should be elected to the Rajya Sabha at the very least. Establish think tanks to debate and formulate national security strategies. We cannot let sentiments and personal desires for peace creep into national security policies. Many people have no clue why our PM woke up one fine morning and declared several peace measures with Pakistan. These things cannot be done on adhoc basis. There should be a rational for that. The military should be given a bigger institutional role in formulating such policies though the final authority in decision making should rest with the PM and his core national security team.
17) Honour our fallen soldiers and armed forces. Build memorials in some metros like Madras, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Calcutta, Bangalore, Pune etc.. We need things like these to unite Hindus and patriotic Indians. Modernize the armed forces to make them more lethal. Same with the state police forces to tackle crimes, not to harass the people or serve their political masters.
These are just few things that I can write at this time. In 1999, I thought Vajpayee and Advani are going to do some great things to unite this country. But I am greatly disappointed. Vajpayee is so fixated comparing his own image with Gandhi and Nehru that he is just not listening to anyone who loves this country with a passion. He is only concerned with his legacy and praises from the media. He is capable of making compromises on vital national security interests that the coming generations will suffer. Coming to Advaniji, he isn't as smart as I thought him to be. Secularists consider him to be a hardliner but I don't see anything in him that fits that description. Both WERE great leaders but their time has passed. Now the cause takes precedence over these two leaders.
Remember how we are suffering to this day for the stupidity of Gandhi during partition and Nehru on J&K and China war. Let's not make the same mistake. It is time to think what is more important. A Vajpayee in power or a strong secular super power India that protects Hindu interests. People would rather vote for an inexperienced but younger person like Rahul Gandhi rather than a tired and out of tune but experienced leader like Vajpayee. I may still choose Vajpayee over Rahul but we cannot say for sure about the masses in India. They can be manipulated very easily.
Jai Hind.
One of my friend said this to me,
<b>"Unlike India, China is not an Emotion Driven Nation. Its not an intellectual arrogant society - arrogance breeds hypocrisy. They dont gloats so much about the past as we do with as little current accomplishment. The other trait that i have observed is.. Borrowing Rudyard Kipling's words... They can be Friendly without being intimate while we tend to be intimate without being friendly. "</b>
Now,I haven't seen chinese society.According to him,Indians are hypocrates compared to chinese.For a moment I couldn't agree with him that Indians are intellectually arrogant compared to chinese.
I thought this is time we should discuss strengths and weaknesses of Indian Society Vs. Other sucessfull societies in world in terms of intellectual arrogance,attitude,potential etc. etc.
But I welcome comments on the quote by my friend above if there is anything wrong in it or right in it bcoz it will help me understand how indian society is inferior to chinese.I didn't knew this aspect so far.
If administrators think this thread can go own like some social intellegance gathering thread like comparing our society's strengths with others in the world.Seems very interesting.But again,info here will be of sensitive nature.You know what I mean. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Can we begin from dessimination of what my friend said.Thanks. <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->They can be Friendly<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very difficult to find one.
They are completely brainwashed. Think very low about India and Indians.
They are rude especially in Peking, Singapore and Hongkong.
Actually, <b>they can be intimate without being friendly</b>.
Very nationalist, never trust anybody. They don't know how to enjoy life.
Chinese and Indian women love to collect GOLD. Infact crazy about gold. Indian women prefer Gold set. Chinese women perfer Gold chains and rings. <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Vishal, there already is one thread on this topic - check link
We could discuss Indian v/s Chinese ecomony in Business forum or Geo-Politics in the Strategic & Security forums. Or we can compare, contrast both the cultures/civilizations in History forum.
Typically don't like to open thread solely based on what someone said in some forum. But for now, will let it stand.
As for the post by chinese:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Unlike India, China is not an Emotion Driven Nation. Its not an intellectual arrogant society - arrogance breeds hypocrisy. They dont gloats so much about the past as we do with as little current accomplishment. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolute hogwash. But there is an element of truth to the statment "China is not an Emotion Driven Nation" - any autocratic regime rarely would come across as a 'emotion driven nation'. We all know as to how well they hide their 'emotions' (read human rights, fuzzy economics, concealing SARS outbreak etc) while our DDM just looks for an opportunity to hang out our dirty laundry for public display. Those tanks in Tianamen square concealed everything rotten in the state of China.
They might have culture as ancient as India but can they hold a candle to India's achievements? Chinkcoms are now correcting their text books which has fudged all these years that their wall was visible from moon. Sounds like sour grapes if they are not 'gloating' over their past.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->They dont gloats so much about the past as we do with as little current accomplishment.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point to them their outstanding issues like Taiwan or Tibet and see how quickly they curl up into their own "history". China has a good two decades of lead compared to India in terms of economic reforms so your Chinese friend might have something to gloat but the jury's still out on their 'current accomplishment'.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Borrowing Rudyard Kipling's words... They can be Friendly without being intimate while we tend to be intimate without being friendly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Intimate without being friendly like in one night stand? Might be applicable for Pakistan not Hindustan.
I still wonder how you guys forgot Vivekananda ?
Jai Hind
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Expressindia.com
State govt stops free trip for Haj volunteers
This year government staff selected as Haj volunteers will have to bear 30
per cent of the expenses.
Syed Khalique Ahmed
Vadodara, July 23: IT's no longer a free trip to Mecca for Khadim-ul-Hujjaj volunteers who have been helping out Muslims from the State during the Haj pilgrimage all these years. While only government employees can register as volunteers, this time those interested will have to shell out 30 percent of the total expenses from their own pockets. Earlier, the pilgrimage was free for volunteers.
This was intimated to the entire Muslim staff from Class I to Class III in the State government through a circular issued by the Gujarat State Haj Committee. The circular signed by its secretary S A Qadri said volunteers selected by the State government will have to pay 30 per cent of the expenditure while the rest will be borne by the government.
But this has not discouraged employees. Against a requirement of 10 volunteers to look after 3000 pilgrims from Gujarat, the State Haj Cell has received more than 150 applications from various parts of the State.
While Qadri was not available for comment, one of his subordinates said that volunteers had been selected and their names alongwith photographs and biodata sent to Saudi embassy for obtaining visas. Once the visas are issued, each volunteer will pay over Rs 26,000 to the State government and receive travel papers and other documents. According to an official requesting anonymity, volunteers have agreed to pay because this still provides them an opportunity to go for the holy pilgrimage at a low cost. ''Most of the government employees can never even dream of going for Haj since they'll have to pay around Rs 80,000 from the salary. And compared to that Rs 26,000 is still easy on the pockets,'' said the official, adding that while helping pilgrims they also get time to offer prayers.
However, charging volunteers is in violation of a fiat issued by the Haj Cell of the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) on April 29, 2005. Circulated among all the State Haj Committees as also the Central Haj Committee, the fiat asks the bodies to bear expenses of the volunteer from his ''place of residence to Jeddah and back to enable him to discharge his duties efficiently.'' Asking the State Haj Committees to pay necessary advance to volunteers to purchase the full quantum of foreign exchange allows volunteers 5600 Saudi riyals, which is an additional foreign exchange of 100 Saudi riyals, against SR 5500 allowed to the pilgrims. ''This is to meet the extra expenditure on transport and other facilities while in Saudi Arabia,'' says the MEA circular.
The circular also says, ''There was disparity in the matter of allowances and other facilities provided by the respective State Haj Committees to the volunteers. This should be avoided by following a uniform policy.''
However, the Central Haj Committee chairman Tanveer Ahmed refused to make any comment on the issue saying ''It is MEA's job.''
MEA's Haj Cell director R K Sachdeva, when contacted over phone, said : ''I have not received any complaint or a copy of the Gujarat Haj Committee's notification so far.'' He said he would confirm it and take necessary action.
<b>Meanwhile, State Energy minister and in-charge of Gujarat State Haj Committee Saurav Patel, when questioned about volunteers being asked to dole out 30 per cent of the expenditure which was in violation of the MEA's directive, expressed ignorance about it.</b> ''I am not aware of it. I can answer you on Monday,'' he quipped.
<b>Over 400 volunteers, including 100 doctors and paramedical staff, are sent to Saudi Arabia to take care of Haj pilgrims from India.</b> And they are selected from all over the country so as that they can look after the pilgrims of their respective states. <b>The Central government also sends medicines worth Rs 1 crore for Haj pilgrims every year and sets up make shift clinics in Mecca and Medina</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Came back after a trip to India. Visited only my home town and Chennai.
What I noticed this time is the amount of economic potential India has in terms of internal commercial activity. I visited Reliance Infocomm office in my small home town (mainly to return the phone we had) and found atleast 2 people bought new phones while I was waiting. When I went to Nokia showroom couple of times atleast two people talking about buying a new phone. When I went to visit doctors there were atleast 6 people waiting to see the doctor in the queue at any time during my 15 minute wait (calculate howmuch money he made if he charged cheap Rs. 50/- per patient). Number of courier services present are too many. Number of vehicles on the road are choking and I'm sure they need more quality workshops. Banks are flooded with cash and they are willing give you loans much easily (now they resort to collection agencies - legalized goondas - to recover bad loans). Most of people at private businesses are young people <!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Most important change I see is the reduction in number of beggars. Earlier I had seen around 2-3 beggars per day visiting our home, but this time I could see only 3-4 beggars per week. I didn't see many people begging on the streets either. These are descriptions of the small town with 3-4 lakh population in Kerala.
What I see is the amount of economic opportunity it provides to the people who are willing to do real business. Unfortunately not many people are not capitalizing on this. One thing we all can do is to encourage people to become entrepreneurs, like most of Gujaratis. Motivate people to do some entreprise/business of their own. Talk to lower level people (say your milkman, dhoby or even maid) about how he can improve his/her business to make more money. Most of them are not well educated and if you spend half an hour to understand how he/she runs the business, most of us can suggest hundreds of ideas how he can improve the way he/she does things. Tell him the basic things on how he can avoid getting into debt trap, how to avoid risks, how he should see the opportunities present in front of him. Also about his social obligations. Sad part I had seen is that when some of the lower level people start making money, they end up spending most of the money they earn on luxury items (like branded food items etc.), without any concern about their own future or to save when they become old. If a lower level person start making money he/she would certainly send kids to better school and he in turn would be contributing for the nation.
I had an opportunity to talk to a barber who was only 17 years old but a school dropout after 10th. He wants to make it bigger business but literally lacked the guts required for it. Looks like he got motivated so that he would go and do special courses of hair care or male beautician courses after which he should be able to start a some what middle level airconditioned barber shop.
Just like Gujarat, we need to turn entire India into an entreprising community.
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