<!--QuoteBegin-utepian+Mar 9 2007, 02:56 PM-->QUOTE(utepian @ Mar 9 2007, 02:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Surprising that the Hundi admits that missionaries drove him out and describes his work glowingly with "hand on his heart".
Ever notice he and Hritik Roshan get very little work or get work only from their friends and family?
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Why do you call Vivek Oberoi 'Hundi'? What is that supposed to mean?
03-09-2007, 09:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2007, 09:05 PM by Bodhi.)
From sabha.info:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Idi Amin was a good man: Columbia University Professor
We learn from Mahmood Mamdani, a Muslim, a Columbia University Profesor and the husband of the filmmaker Mira Nair, that the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin who persecuted Hindus was actually a nice guy.
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From Rediff:
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How Mira Nair's hubby helped Forest Whitaker
When Forest Whitaker was preparing for his role as Idi Amin in director Kevin Macdonald's The King of Scotland, he read a lot of books and met with several people -- the late Ugandan dictator's family and others who knew him or had met him.
The African-American actor's performance has won him a Golden Globe, a BAFTA and an Oscar, in addition to several other trophies.
'Most people in the West see him (Amin) as a savage who had nothing to offer,' Whitaker recently said. 'But if you talk to Ugandans they have a very mixed point of view of Idi Amin.'
'I spoke to an East Indian man, a scholar -- (filmmaker) Mira Nair's husband,' Whitaker said, referring to Mahmood Mamdani, the Herbert Lehman professor of government in the anthropology and political science departments at New York's Columbia University. 'He is a third-generation Ugandan and <b>he had amazingly positive things to say about Idi Amin</b>. He said Amin helped the country immensely. That was confusing for me, because Amin did kick the Asians out of Uganda. He gave them 90 days.
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Idi Amin got shelter in KSA when he was overthrown. To a Muslim like Mamdani the only thing that matters is that Amin is a Muslim.
Add to that the fact that a majority of people who got harassed by Amin were Gujjus ?
Sorry to interrupt the more important discussion.
Interview with director Brett Ratner (Rush Hour movies, X-men 3):
http://iesb.net/fox2006/032006.php
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Q: You mentioned that you are looking for an Indian actress, a really hot Indian actress to be in Rush Hour 3.
BR: I love her, Aishwarya Rai, the most beautiful woman in the world.
Q: Would you cast her?
BR: I am trying to right now. She's the most beautiful woman in the world and it's my dream to put her in the movie, Aishwarya Rai is considered to be the most beautiful woman in the world.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Gratuitous insert of Aishwarya image <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050514/wd1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Anyway, beyond the gushing, what happened? Rush Hour 3 is out in August and she's not in the cast list. Oh, couldn't Aishwarya have signed onto this movie and acted with Jackie Chan, Chris Tucker and gang?
Couldn't she have done me this favour, if only to erase the horrible image of that twit Mallika Sherawat and poor Jackie (stuck with her) in some upcoming Chan movie. Aishwarya should've done Rush Hour 3, she should have, she should have. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Aishwarya's got class, M Sherawat looks like she never went to class.
Quick, someone team Aish up with Takeshi Kaneshiro in some police movie set in Asia - will make a hugely attractive combo and might just wipe the bad taste from my mouth.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Aishwarya's got class, M Sherawat looks like she never went to class.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
400% agree with this although I would prefer Aishwarya in Galadriel or Arwen type roles..
03-10-2007, 06:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2007, 08:46 AM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->although I would prefer Aishwarya in Galadriel or Arwen type roles..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Peter Jackson was very kind in casting the Lord of the Rings. Many Maori and other non-European people were in that movie as extras (as Ents, or under layers of orc make-up).
I don't know if you've read The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion, but once you read them, you realise the only place for non-white (white as in the actual colour white) <i>human</i> characters is as villains. It is worse than Chronicles of Narnia in that respect.
Don't want to pick on Tolkien, and I won't. He's a product of his time and country. Born in South Africa and moved back to ancestral England, an Anglo-Saxon, Catholic and a professor of Middle and Old-English, I believe (and Anglo-Saxon studies). He is the typical well-read, proper Englishman of his time. An officer in WWI - and one immediately knows his position in the English class system from that. And I'll give him one thing: unlike some losers, Tolkien at least wasn't an anti-semite.
I still like reading his works, some of it rings as true as fiction ever can - except for the bit where he introduces darker human populations and invariably makes them evil. See especially his Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.
I once wanted to broach this topic in the AIT thread, meaning to write that the only place the PIE 'White' Oryans have been attested was in Middle-Earth, the northwest thereof. Urheimat being the island of Numenor. Read the book Silmarillion. I won't go into more specifics, else I'll look like a geek. And I'm saving that for my sci-fi craze <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But as much as I loved the books (it's the only <i>modern</i> epic of the west that can remotely compare with Asian epics, but even then it does not come out favourably), there is racism in there and it does not sit well with me, nor does it ring true to the rest of the sagas. I could bear it with Narnia, because that is obviously contrived and trivial when re-reading at an older age, at which point I didn't care for it anymore. But the infusion of racial stereo-typing in Middle-Earth stories is like adding oil to drinking water. It wrecks the whole thing eventually and one fine day makes you feel bad about it. I'd have felt bad even had I been European, but as an Indian, one is especially conscious of it and so I can't condone that aspect of the books at all. It's a good thing about the Rings movies that they avoided that facet altogether.
In any case: Aishwarya could never have been chosen for Eowyn or Galadriel, both golden-haired, or Arwen since they're all meant to be untanned northwest European looking. And even if Aish had been paper white, her facial structure is entirely Indian, particularly typical S Indian - which would also have disqualified her, even though Aish has the requisite grey eyes.
When I read The Lord of the Rings for the first time, I imagined Cox Habbema (70s Dutch actress in German kids' movies - a beauty) as Eowyn - hard to find a good picture and this is rather smallish:
<img src='http://www.freeimagehost.eu/thumbs/cd9609104243.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And if I were to film the book now, after excising the racist elements, it'd be Dagmara Dominczyk for Arwen all the way.
Never mind though, there are plenty of other movies Aish would be perfect for. Standing by what I said earlier: Aishwarya and Kaneshiro would make a very handsome onscreen couple, and making a romantic but cool police movie with them in it would send people in East Asia and India wild. Of course, Kaneshiro already has a rabid female following in the far-east, don't know if he's willing to add another half a billion female viewers to the crazed list. But, oh man, if I were to make this movie - kaching! - I'd be rakin' in billions$. Nice dream... don't wake me...
03-11-2007, 05:15 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2007, 05:19 AM by Husky.)
Sorry Admin. But no harm, no foul right? <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Me was only fantasizing about My Plan. Unlike Pinky and the Brain - who come up with different schemes everyday to take over the world, I've got only one. But the sheer genius of My Plan makes success inevitable.
None can prevent me, because the carefully constructed intricacies of it eludes you all. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> Let me 'splain:
MasterPlan: make $$$moolah ~> galactic domination
(Yeah, I'm past global domination now. It was too - how d'you say - restrictive.)
<b>ADDED:</b>
Did I just ... put my MasterPlan up ... for all the world to see...? NOOoooooooo
'Scuse me, while I go and bang my head against the fridge
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Huskyji, I am aware of that. But I think the facts stand for themselves. LOTR is one of the best movies of the last few decades - the scale, the effects and the kind of story that I havent seen on the movie screen. I dont care much about Tolkein's racism i even found lion-king to have a racist angle. As a movie its one of my favorites. Rai being the worlds most beautiful woman needs a stage as big as that, a beauty that cannot be captured in contemporary times, has to be a period film or a fiction film or an epic film - not karate-kungfu-comedy, thats just not her. Her role in the movie has to be pivotal and she will easily fit both roles. Yeah screw the red/blond hair or put a wig on or something. Mix karate-kungfu, bigger canvas, epic film, period film, crouching tiger hidden dragon and that might work but not rush-hour-2, thats just not her.
03-11-2007, 06:40 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2007, 06:53 AM by Husky.)
Agreed that Aishwarya definitely deserves an epic.
I like Indians to play Indians rather than directors getting them to play West-Asian (Aish to play modern Afghan) or Middle-Eastern (Aish in remake of 'Chaos' is to take on role of the lovely Algerian in original French movie) or European (if ever in Lord of the Rings).
Personally, I would say something like Mahabharata or another massive Purana is right for her - I think she is the closest-looking human version of Apsara Menaka AND she's a great dancer. So roll her in for Kumara Sambhavam, at least. (Also bring in the lovelies Sonali Bendre, Pooja Batra, Sushmita Sen and my favourite late 80s/start 90s Tamil actresses - don't know their names as I was little then.)
As for Rush Hour 2, it has the South American lovely Roselyn Sanchez playing it straight (meaning of 'playing it straight' = seriously) and the astoundingly beautiful Zhang Zi Yi (devout Buddhist <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> - that's where her inner beauty comes from) playing a mad psycho Tai Chi-pro assassin/bodyguard. Zhang Zi Yi plays it very seriously until the end - as required - and makes it all the funnier for it. Totally memorable. Her only smiles were evil smirks when she looked set to do her rivals in.
Neither female characters in RH 2 are actually comic set pieces, the comedy derives from Chan and Tucker and from the surroundings.
Not that Aish can't be funny, I've seen her do some comedy in Tamil films. Even in the non-comedy Kandukondainx2, her character was naturally humorous.
But Rush Hour 3 wouldn't have required slapstick from her, she'd just need to be an elegant yet serious person who'd get lodged in the same troubles as Tucker and Chan, I'm guessing.
But I'd like to see Aish stretch herself, and expand beyond playing only the ethereal and conscientious beauty (in Indian epics, this has a place, definitely) and start taking on sci-fi or cop-roles. Being a capable dancer, she looks like she'd be able to do choreographed fight scenes. And there's nothing difficult in pulling a gun with style.
<b>EDIT:</b>
I don't mean 'sci-fi' as in the plagiarised action-fiesta 'The Matrix'.
I mean real sci-fi, say Asimov novels or Bladerunner-esque stuff, without too much gratuitous action - but when it's called for, let's have cooool (yet grounded, realistic) action.
OK Boss. I get your point but my preference for Aish in ethereal roles in the filmy medium is unshakeable. In hindi movies atleast her image has developed as a kanch-ki-gudiya (glass-doll) and hence my bias towards those types of roles. I think if a big canvas is pulled out for a Rani Padmavati movie, she would be a perfect candidate from current desi heroines. She will fit right in.
And when I say a big canvas, i mean big. Stuff that Vidhu Vinod Chopra, Sanjay Bhansali, J P Dutta pull out.
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 9 2007, 06:22 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 9 2007, 06:22 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Add to that the fact that a majority of people who got harassed by Amin were Gujjus ?
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There was this rumor that Amin Dada made a pass at the Madhavani tycoon's wife and was rebuffed. So he went berserk and took it out on all Indians who happened to be mostly Gujjus. This tycoon's son married Mumtaz the former Bollywood star.
03-11-2007, 07:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2007, 06:08 PM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 11 2007, 06:53 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 11 2007, 06:53 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->OK Boss. I get your point but my preference for Aish in ethereal roles in the filmy medium is unshakeable. In hindi movies atleast her image has developed as a kanch-ki-gudiya (glass-doll) and hence my bias towards those types of roles. I think if a big canvas is pulled out for a Rani Padmavati movie, she would be a perfect candidate from current desi heroines. She will fit right in.[right][snapback]65460[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Rajesh_G, I didn't intend to be so forceful and narrow-minded that you'd rather make a quiet getaway to avoid my overly argumentative self. Just meant to put my rather opinionated views forward. Feel free to mow them over.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In hindi movies atleast her image has developed as a kanch-ki-gudiya (glass-doll)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo--> Didn't know that.
But don't the directors think it will limit her no end? Wouldn't Aish think so too? She might not have been a great actress in most of her films ('Jeans' comes to mind), but she was really good in Kandukondain - no detraction at all, quite the opposite. She fit seamlessly. It's when I started to think she could act after all.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think if a big canvas is pulled out for a Rani Padmavati movie, she would be a perfect candidate from current desi heroines. She will fit right in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Displaying my ignorance here, but who is Rani Padmavati? Padmavati as in Venkatachalapathi's wife?
But yeah, she should play a Rani! And she's a Bunt, so kshatriya woman in real life. And she moves like a Hindu queen.
Oh, what about her as Jhansi Ke Rani? That would have her with sword and with the regal attitude! But Jhansi is in UP, so I'd prefer Pooja Batra (from UP I think?) to play her. Batra has been so underused, she looks very intelligent, but is given the roles of empty-headed 'pretty' faces. I saw an infinitely repeating trailer in ~2000 with her in it, for a film called 'Kabhi pyaar na ho jaaye' - sorry for misspellings. From what I could make out from the trailer, she obviously had a hard time playing stupid.
My cousin was furious at it, saying Pooja was too clever to always play low-IQ-ed uber-flirts.
Fortunately, in the only movie I saw with her in it, Kandukondain x2, she got a comic role as a Malayali actress who plays action heroines. She was very cute and funny there.
So I think Pooja Batra, having been criminally underused and having played dunces too often, deserves to be given Jhansi Ke Rani. She's the right age for it too, isn't she - she doesn't look to be in her 20s now, anyway. Looking more serious and mature. And more beautiful for it, if I may add.
"glass doll" was probably a mischaracterization on my part but her most succesful movies have been hum-dil-de-chuke-sanam, devdas, mohabattein and perhaps Umrao-jaan (as a lasting impression not monetarily). All these movies show her as an extremely beautiful woman, vital to the movie in larger then life roles that are larger-then-life, not girl next door. The roles where she has played slightly different roles are probably khakee and dhoom2 (very recently) - both dhishoom-dhishoom, kid of cool but not something that has stuck atleast not in my mind. She has had a couple of movies where she has done one sexy "item number" very succesfully but that is not the impression she leaves people with. Others can chip in with other names but the iimpression is for her to get larger then life roles that are not about girl next door but ethereal roles and are all about her beauty.
Rani Padmavati's story is very famous in North India. Very briefly, she was the queen of Rana Ratan Singh (?) of Chittorgarh. Sultan Ala-ud-din Khalji is said to have carried out a ferocious campaign to get her. In a standoff once there was a compromise worked out where Khilji will have a glimpse of her through a mirror or reflection in water or something - dont remember exactly. This was the compromise so Khilji would return from Chittorgarh but this one image drove Khilji nuts and he repeatedly struck at Chittor. As climax of this story, when the rajputs figured that Chittor was going to be sacked, committed Kesariya - an act where the warriors wear saffron robes in front of overwhelming odds (much like Faramir in LOTR) and go out to do battle. Meanwhile Rani Padmavati and other Rajput women committed Jauhar (Sati). Khilje sacked Chittorgarh and when he entered Chittor to claim the Rani all he found were ashes.
I am sure googleswara or other guroos will be able to fill in more details.
03-11-2007, 09:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2007, 09:30 AM by Husky.)
Thanks for the story of Rani Padmavati. It's cool. Yes please, a movie of that with Aishwarya would be most welcome.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Faramir in LOTR<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->In the books, he's my favourite male character. In the movie, they made him an almost-villain. That was quite sad actually.
Post 170 (Rajesh_G)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i even found lion-king to have a racist angle<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo--> How? (It's been a while since I watched this and I was still young then)
In any case, Tolkien's telling of Middle-Earth stories does not depend on personal views. (I'd long tried to argue it away as being set in some other universe. But then, couldn't he have avoided introducing dark people altogether? I'm not talking about creatures like orcs or trolls here, but about *humans*)
For instance, in The Silmarillion, when the brown human populations are introduced, the light people trust them, but are betrayed and - a-la the KKK's dawaganda for why segregation and slavery is necessary - the dark males kill or enslave the white householders and take over their female population. I kid you not. Rather distasteful when you think too much on it, at which point it begins to show more than a passing similarity with what the extremists in the west believe.
And here's a place name from the Lord of the Rings, for the country where one of the fell dark peoples who worked for Sauron came from: Khand. And it lies the East, in case anyone was still wondering. And from 'Harad' in the South come 'black' people. It's just Tolkien using this world as a backdrop for his own, but inverting the direction of aggression.
In the Narnia series, its author Lewis infuses how darker populations are more prone to evil, unrighteousness like slavery, sneaking and cunning in war - but since Narnia was just (catholic) christianity disguised under mainly Greek mythology, you have Lewis redeeming 2 brown characters from their evil religion when they convert to Aslan's way (Aslan = jeebus, Lewis never made that a secret). So moral: brown people are evil because of their false demon-gods, but once you get them to accept jeebus, they can be good.
The above is about the Narnia books 'A horse and his boy', 'The last battle' and the first bit of 'Voyage of the Dawn Treader', by the way. Not 'The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' which was meant to be about jeebus' betrayal, death and resurrection.
Huskyji, Its been a while since I watched it too. I was just trying to think of a family animation movie made by a respectable movie house and lion king came to mind.
So this is just what I remember vaguely. Its very subtle. Mufassa (Simbas father), Simba, his mom etc are all blonde, their style, the voices etc are all quintessentially white. The voice for Mufasa I think was done by an african-american actor but the style of talking etc was all white. You would think ofcourse this story is all about lions and lions are supposed to blondish so whats the big deal ? But Mufasa's brother Scar who is the evil scheming character is dark with black patches. He has slight fox-ish features. He builds an army of other evil hyenas. These hyenas are all quintessentially african-american. Mufassa's sidekick is this monkey character. He is otherwise wise, chankian and all. You get a sense he has been created keeping an indian 'witch-doctor' type. This monkey sometimes looks like a red one and sometimes a brown one. The subtext is stereotypical - white (blonde) king, red/brown indian as a good sidekick giving sound advice and dark fellows as evil types.
I might be reading too much into this but thats the impression i got the first time i saw it and the impression has stuck. However i loved the movie because the father-son relationship was developed wonderfully but there is this inescapable subtext. Its a spoiler however and i try not to give too much importance to these things in works of fiction - passing interest perhaps in how people exhibit such behaviors but otherwise just enjoy the movie since you have spent money to do just that.
I got to see the '300' last night at a theater in a small town in US. The theater was packed with people of all ages.
The movie is based on the historical event of battle of Thermoplyae where 300 Spartans under King Leonidas stopped a Persian invading force under Xerxes. However the film directed based on a graphic novel and has quite few interesting depictions. Mainly the Persians are portrayed as some sort of sub-humans and perverts. A lot of computer animations was used for the gory scenes.
What was interesting was the films view of the Persians as some sort of overlords of the East who were bent on imposing their will on the free Greeks. But in contrast to the West which had the mission of bringing in light to the heathen it was the heathen trying to impose their rule over the Enlightened Greeks. With recent scholars like VDH claiming the West and the US in particular inheriting all that is good in Greek culture there were murmurs of approval in the audience at some dialogs asserting the superiority of Greek culture.
One thing peculiar was having Xerxes be borne on palanquins with rams' head motif. For those who know Biblical stories that is the iconography of Baal. This is a unwarranted cross linkage for the Jews were taken to Persia from captivity by Nebuchadnezzar and it was in Persia that the idea of light and darkness etc came into the Bible. So depicting Persians as Baal worshipers or followers is an unwarranted inaccuracy might have other reasons to show that. And the Greeks had their own gods whom they worshiped and they are shown formless a la Hebrew theogony. Yes there is a female oracle but is disparaged by the King Leonidas and the oracle priests are shown in grotesque form again implying disparagement.
What I realized was that this story is the historic/eternal European fear of being overwhelmed by Asia. This is the root cause of the various geo-political moves that have shaped the European and Asian interaction through out history. These moves have happened over vast time periods and have involved both sides. The players might have thought they were in a little game but the bigger game always was this historic fear.
I read somewhere that Rani Padmavathi was from Sri Lanka. Any evidence to corroborate or refute? There is a long tradtion of Sri Lanakan Princesses being married to Uttarapath kings. King Harsha's play Ratnavali has an instance of this.
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