Organized/forced Conversion As Sedition

04-22-2007, 09:49 PM

QUOTEThis will mean showing as much deceit and as much of a forked tongue as any evangelist. Every animal understands its own tongue better than any other and it will be necessary to use the methods that are already in use by mullahs and evangelists. 
In Punjab and HP these animals use violence, alcohol and drugs to converts.

04-23-2007, 05:39 AM

QUOTEsedition; waging war against the government; attempting or conspiring to wage war; collecting arms with the intention of waging war; abetting mutiny; promoting enmity between different religious, racial, or linguistic groups; and causing criminal intimidation.

Reading yet another report on Human Rights in India, and it is about Anti-terrorism laws in india, and it has the above as in India's sedition act. The report is dated 2006.

04-23-2007, 08:20 AM

Husky: Well it is fine to remind what the ancient Christians behaved, seized power and expanded. It is good to show their activities in the middle ages. How are they now? How is a nominal Christian in USA, who goes to the Church and minds his/her business working for his family and country, dangerous to us?

04-23-2007, 08:39 AM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Apr 23 2007, 05:39 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEsedition; waging war against the government; attempting or conspiring to wage war; collecting arms with the intention of waging war; abetting mutiny; promoting enmity between different religious, racial, or linguistic groups; and causing criminal intimidation.

Reading yet another report on Human Rights in India, and it is about Anti-terrorism laws in india, and it has the above as in India's sedition act. The report is dated 2006.
[right][snapback]67692[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Thanks for digging up this info. I will make a note of it.

It opens up the possibility for nailing at least one evangelist in a court of law for sedition, if he can be recorded as saying that Hindu beliefs and practices are wrong.

Even one single court case, won or lost, should set a precedent that gets some publicity against what is undoubtedly sedition against an Indian tradition of religious tolerance.

04-23-2007, 08:47 AM

precedence is such huge thingy with lawyers, judges and courts. It is time to dedicate one devata for precedence <!--emo& Tongue

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

Husky · (This post was last modified: 04-23-2007, 05:16 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(SwamyG @ Apr 23 2007, 08:20 AM)Husky: Well it is fine to remind what the ancient Christians behaved, seized power and expanded. It is good to show their activities in the middle ages. How are they now? How is a nominal Christian in USA, who goes to the Church and minds his/her business working for his family and country, dangerous to us?
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From my own post 31:
QUOTE(Husky @ Apr 21 2007, 09:53 AM)Christianity doesn't behave like this anymore, you might argue. You'd be wrong.
Introducing peoples you never knew and soon might not have chance to know thanks to the genocidal christian machine carrying on the grand old tradition:
The Akha, Bayak Pygmees and numerous others. Some mentioned here:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview4.htm <- Do see this page.

Most important example of all, because it is the most succinct and highly illustrative of the activities of christianity in modern times in an Asian nation:
Please do read the stuff at these three links, and see the images on the last:
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/2.html Buddhism under Siege in Korea 1982-1996
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/3.html Chronology of Events January 1997-December 1998
And look at some images of what christianity has accomplished in S Korea - thanks to the good christian converts:
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/pic1/list.html
[right][snapback]67591[/snapback][/right]Additional:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/D3.htm "Recent genocide" - 1 page
http://freetruth.50webs.org/D4a.htm "Present-day genocide and cultural extermination"- 9 pages, one of them even on India

These are not about the middle ages. They're about yesterday and today.

**acharya** · 04-23-2007, 10:11 PM

http://orionnewsblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/...eligion-in.html

http://orionnewsblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/...eligion-in.html

04-24-2007, 01:31 AM

Husky: Thanks for pointing it out. I did read the page earlier, and saw most of the left side filled with listing of sexual abuses. Then after my posting, I read the website once again (focused on the right hand side).

Those are the actions of the missionaries, now how about the actions of common Christians? Any info. on that?

Again thanks for pointing it out.

04-24-2007, 04:53 AM

QUOTE(sengotuvel @ Apr 22 2007, 11:09 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEsedition; waging war against the government; attempting or conspiring to wage war; collecting arms with the intention of waging war; abetting mutiny; promoting enmity between different religious, racial, or linguistic groups; and causing criminal intimidation.

Reading yet another report on Human Rights in India, and it is about Anti-terrorism laws in india, and it has the above as in India's sedition act. The report is dated 2006.
[right][snapback]67692[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Sengotuvel/Doc/Shiv,

I have tried pointing this out to you in the other fora. Using the very same laws you point above the Calcutta Quran Petition was filed and thrown out by the judges, who said "A court of law cannot sit judge on the words of a "holy" book".
This was back in the 80's. Times have changed, someone should try again.

04-24-2007, 07:31 AM

QUOTE(Shaurya @ Apr 24 2007, 04:53 AM)
I have tried pointing this out to you in the other fora. Using the very same laws you point above the Calcutta Quran Petition was filed and thrown out by the judges, who said "A court of law cannot sit judge on the words of a "holy" book".
This was back in the 80's. Times have changed, someone should try again.
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Yes - I do recall your mentioning this on BRF.

That is why it is important to fight people and not a book. The desire to follow Mein Kampf becomes less acute after you have been soundly defeated and punished.

The idea is to catch an individual evangelist out (on video perhaps) making derogatory remarks and then slapping a case on him as a person who is deliberately spoiling communal harmony.

If this man's defence is that his holy book asks him to say that he will get himself and his kind deeper into a rut. But such a case has to be handled with finesse (that damn finesse word again!). Suing the Quran or Bible is pointless and I fear that "lack of finesse" would be someone doing exactly that.

If you recall - a few months ago there were these sensational reports about a London mullah who had instigated hatred of non Muslims. His defence lawyer pleaded that this man was instigating nothing - he was merely quiting verbatim from the Quran. For secular India even a court acceptace that quoting verbatim from a holy text sounds like hate speech against Hindus would be a powerful victory for the Hindu narrative. So I see efforts in this direction as being useful no matter what the actual court outcome.

The idea is to catch out people quoting from their holy books and then saying Hinduism is rubbish based on that. A sentence against that person is less important that the publicity given to that information about what certain holy texts imply. Word has to get around about what holy books say and what degree of love and peace is fostered (and in what manner and on whom this is bestowed) based on words in Holy books.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 04-26-2007, 01:01 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(SwamyG @ Apr 24 2007, 01:31 AM)Those are the actions of the missionaries, now how about the actions of common Christians? Any info. on that?[right][snapback]67748[/snapback][/right]Do you mean all converts are missionaries? Then yeah, maybe. But otherwise, no. Did you read the links on Korea - the red bit. The vandals in Korea are nearly all non-missionary converts. All those images of broken pagodas, marred and desecrated Buddha statues - they are all courtesy of the friendly christian convert.
But think that it's only the missionaries if you will. The christian laity are really 'harmless' you know.

(Sorry Admin, I know I posted this before, but can't find the thread)
Hate to hotlink from a Greek Religion site, so I won't -
http://ethnikoi.org/mathima2.jpg

04-25-2007, 06:28 AM

QUOTE(sengotuvel @ Apr 23 2007, 10:01 PM)
That is why it is important to fight people and not a book. The desire to follow Mein Kampf becomes less acute after you have been soundly defeated and punished.



- More efficient to fight a single book, than a million mullahs?
- In order to discredit Islam, one has to either discredit the Quran or the author. Discrediting the practitioners, is unlikely to have the same effect. In the example above discrediting a 1000 SS leaders was not enough - it worked only because the ideology of racist fascism along with its author was discredited.
- Documented history in these matters has succeeded only when the ideology has been put to shame. Communism, Fascism come to mind. The US never seriously hated all Russians but always differentiated between the people and the ideology. The ideology was the target and not the people or even the leaders.
- The only difference between the defeated ideologies of Fascism and Communism is that Islamism has the halo of the "God" around it. Once, you can figure or get used to that idea and show indifference to that halo effect, the rest of it becomes very similar to the discredited ideologies

I have always liked your idea of making the mullah as the target - and it makes a lot of sense. At this time though, I hold the view that targeting the leaders alone is not enough.

04-25-2007, 06:31 AM

Husky: Do you think cultural aspects, in addition, to the religious aspects are reasons for acts of vandalism and forms of violence? Why don't these acts occur so often in the West? Has the West, atleast the liberals, moved away from the violence? I recognize the Bible thumpers in the southern belt of USA can get wierd, why do we see so many agnostics or athiests in the Western countries?

The very recent convert have always shown the tendency to be more radical than the older converts.

04-26-2007, 09:22 AM

QUOTE(Shaurya @ Apr 25 2007, 06:28 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sengotuvel @ Apr 23 2007, 10:01 PM)
That is why it is important to fight people and not a book. The desire to follow Mein Kampf becomes less acute after you have been soundly defeated and punished.


- More efficient to fight a single book, than a million mullahs?
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I guess both need to be fought. Both are hand in glove. The (existing) book creates and empowers the believer and the believer perpetuates the book. Removing all copies of the book without changing the believers is pointless because the book exists are a narrative among the believers. Removing all the believers while the book remains in multiple copies is a difficult goal.

This is not a "this one" or "that one" choice. Both need attention.

04-26-2007, 11:03 AM

QUOTE(sengotuvel @ Apr 22 2007, 07:50 AM)

I think a bit of the same medicine is required to be forced down some peaceful and loving throats.
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This is exactly what I meant in my post in the Narrative thread. An anti-EJ narrative is needed as much as a Hindu narrative to counter the 'you farted' line of attack. This line will have a lot more takers among the '2-minute attention span' audience.
Peodophile priests, lesbian nuns, immaculate conceptions with virgins...deride and defeat.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 04-26-2007, 07:27 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(SwamyG @ Apr 25 2007, 06:31 AM)Husky: Do you think cultural aspects, in addition, to the religious aspects are reasons for acts of vandalism and forms of violence?
(1) Why don't these acts occur so often in the West?
(2) Has the West, atleast the liberals, moved away from the violence? I recognize the Bible thumpers in the southern belt of USA can get wierd, why do we see so many agnostics or athiests in the Western countries?

The very recent convert have always shown the tendency to be more radical than the older converts.[right][snapback]67816[/snapback][/right](1) Firstly, the West has long had a christian character (Europe) and even America has since its 'discovery' been owned by a predominantly christian population. What Buddhist pagodas are there to destroy, the west is not some heathen Asian nation in need of conversion? What heathen peoples are left in Europe and US (in sufficient numbers) to murder out? The wholesale massacres there were accomplished long ago. All the important temples in Europe had been destroyed and converted into churches in the early centuries of christoterrorism itself.

Immigrant Buddhist, Hindu and other population into western nations is small (compared to say islamics), the number of temples that have now been built in the west are small and are protected by secular governments. Even the Hindoo is accorded some respect, but the 'journalists' will still fling all the mud they can amass our way when they can find nothing else to do.

(2) You have said it yourself: the liberals are the ones who have moved away from the violence. The more liberal they are (meaning less christian, showing less adherence to biblical injunctions and commands) the less violent they are.
Extent of adherence to christoislamism is directly proportional to a follower's tendency to violence. Same as holds for communism, fascism and other criminal ideologies of hate (example racism). This is a characteristic unique to such ideologies.

The 'liberal christians' in the west - those I knew in primary and high school for instance - were all atheists or agnostics or new agey 'heretic' 'christians'... (christian only because they did not know there were other labels open to them). So yeah, they are totally non-violent and very good people.

QUOTEThe very recent convert have always shown the tendency to be more radical than the older converts.The difference is in how much on-fire-for-christ they are: the very recent convert shows more interest, because he has 'found' his new gawd. The recent convert would be more dear to his imaginary jeebus for obeying jehovah's will so well. As that Korean deacon admiringly remarked: the Korean lay christian vandals showed more faith than he did because they obediently destroyed the temples and Buddha statues.

Also, it depends on whether the host country's character is christian or not. In Ancient Free Rome, christos hated that theirs was not a christian nation and set about demolishing it when they finally got into power. Same happens today in unconverted countries, as also occurred in the times between these two different ages.

The necessity to show their radical side is most often keenly felt when they are living among those who have 'other Gods before them'. If the nation is christian, they don't usually have to go around tormenting their neighbours (unless some 'heresy' breaks out, of course). In that case, some among them decide to honour their jeebus and become missionaries to ship themselves off to where people do have 'other Gods before them'. It's to prevent people in remote countries from offending jehovallah by their continued heathen existence.

You must remember, the liberal christian only exists because Ze Most Holy Inquisition has been put on hold. For no other reason.

I think Hindus ought to save their apologetics for worthwhile religions and not for those that seek nothing better than to destroy us and others who are not christian. Why defend something that seeks our destruction? <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /> Why do we keep trying to find an imaginary ray of hope or good in something that has none (except where exhibited in those who'd be considered heretics though they still call themselves christian).

Christianity has no such consideration for us, we are nothing but blisters in the sight of their gawd. Why give it any respect? Defending an evil ideology makes one complicit in its continued existence. We cannot control others' actions, but we can our own. Others may fawn over it as they see fit, but anyone who has an ounce of respect for the native Americans, the Ancient Greeks and Romans and other Europeans, the Africans or S Koreans and other Asians, including our own ancestors and victims of today, will know not to waste one's efforts on the indefensible.

ADDED: I wish Hindus would spend half as much effort on trying to get to know truly worthwhile religions as they have been spending on trying to form a good opinion on christoislamism. What in the world is the attraction in christoislamism that Hindus choose to (continue to) appease and even compliment it?

Post 55:
QUOTEPeodophile priests, lesbian nuns, immaculate conceptions with virgins...deride and defeat.You mean paedophile nuns who prey on deaf children. Shudder, shudder, shudder.
QUOTENuns have been abusing deaf children:
Attorney: 1 in 4 nuns abused deaf kids - The Enterprise (Boston), May 12, 2004
Deaf plaintiffs speak loudly: Nuns raped us, tortured us - Boston Herald, May 12, 2004 ( http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview4.htm )

04-27-2007, 09:04 PM

Let me begin with your last point:
QUOTEADDED: I wish Hindus would spend half as much effort on trying to get to know truly worthwhile religions as they have been spending on trying to form a good opinion on christoislamism. What in the world is the attraction in christoislamism that Hindus choose to (continue to) appease and even compliment it?

I can't speak for Hindus in general, but as far as me I don't see anything wrong in trying to seek the good aspects in other humans irrespective of their religious persuasion. Again nothing wrong in complimenting good aspects in other humans or religions. Just because they are different does not mean I should freak out. Hey, for crying out aloud I am a Hindu.

Having said the above let me add further. I do no make an effort to justify the atrocities committed by any humans because of religious reasons. Let them be Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists or Hindus.

Both negative and positive aspects of the religions can not be ignored. Are you saying just because I am Hindu I should not consider the positive actions of other humans? It is not an attraction to Christianity or Islam, IMO, it is the right thing to do â Dharmam. Consider people for what they are and judge them based on their intent and actions.

It is myopic and adharmic to club every Hindu who adopts a different perspective on others into the following groups: pseudo-secular, Marxist, brain-dead, atheist, traitor, apologetics-for-other-religions etc.

(2) Liberals in the West: Yes, large numbers of liberals have moved away from violence. In addition, many Christians and born-again Christians are refining and redefining Christianity. They have shunned violence too. They might think we are all going to hell, which is a different matter. As long as they donât threaten my way of life now and in the future, let them be.
I see, in my every day life, Christians who go about their way of life, praying and participating in Bible and Church activities and not even once shoving their values on me. So what do I do with them? Just simply ignore them and pretend such humans do not exist on this planet? I do not go seeking them, they are just there.
So what do we do with folks, who call themselves Christians, who are not as dogmatic as their fanatic brethren, pick the good aspects from their religion and Bible?

(1) Let the âjournalistsâ fling mud, everybody has their pet agendas and bias. There might not be pagodas to be destroyed, but everyday the fanatic clash with the moderates and the people on the left. There is constant mud flinging by all groups. Glad to se that you make a point that the minority temples are protected.

One does not become an apologetic to consider other humans as humans. I am not asking us to respect others who do not respect us. I am saying let us respect others who respect us â irrespective of their faith; and not go stereotyping.

ramana · 04-28-2007, 02:22 AM

News Report Deccan Chroncile, 27 April 2007

QUOTEBan on propagation of religion in State
Â

Hyderabad: The State government has decided to clamp down on propagation of other religions in certain notified places of worship. The cabinet has decided to issue an ordinance soon in this regard and also notify demarcation of area where such propagation is banned. The order will be first implemented at Tirumala, where trouble began following propagation by some Christian missionaries, sources in the government told this correspondent. It was also decided to impose punishment with imprisonment extending to three years or fine upto Rs 5,000 or both on whoever contravenes the provisions of the law.

The ordinance approved by the Cabinet says: âWith a view to maintain public order, tranquillity and serenity of a place of worship or prayer, prohibit propagation of a religion other than the religion traditionally practiced at such place, by words, either spoken or written or signs or by visible representation or distribute any printed material or other forms of religious literature.â

It added, âThe government by order shall notify such places of worship or prayer from time to time.â
Newly appointed minister for information and public relations, Mr Anam Ramanarayana Reddy and principal secretary, revenue (endowments) I.V. Subba Rao said such incidents were reported from Tirumala.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 04-28-2007, 06:57 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(SwamyG @ Apr 27 2007, 09:04 PM)Let me begin with your last point:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Husky Smile

ADDED: I wish Hindus would spend half as much effort on trying to get to know truly worthwhile religions as they have been spending on trying to form a good opinion on christoislamism. What in the world is the attraction in christoislamism that Hindus choose to (continue to) appease and even compliment it?
I can't speak for Hindus in general, but as far as me I don't see anything wrong in trying to seek the good aspects in other humans irrespective of their religious persuasion. Again nothing wrong in complimenting good aspects in other humans or religions. Just because they are different does not mean I should freak out. Hey, for crying out aloud I am a Hindu. [right][snapback]67952[/snapback][/right]</div>Check that para of mine which you quoted. I've made the relevant words bold.
I wrote about ideology: christoislamism. Where in that para did I mention its adherents? I was talking about spending the time on worthwhile religions instead of defending the indefensible ideology of christoislamism.

Whereas you're talking about people: a whole different ball game. No one said stop seeing the good in other people. Well, leastways, I didn't. (Christoislamism does say that though: "do not be unequally yoked" says the babble to its follower - and that applies even between two christians who aren't equally devout. And the koran tells muslims not to be friends with christians and jews - yeah, we don't even make it on that list.)

04-29-2007, 11:34 AM

The name of the area "Basavanagudi" in Bangalore means "Bull temple"

There is actually a Bull Temple road with a Shiva/Bull temple on that road which is perhaps a thousand years old. Next to that is a Ganesh temple that is exceedingly popular and a tourist attraction Behind the two - on a rocky hillock is one of the four watch towers built by Kempegowda, the founder of Bangalore.

This morning I saw a church on the side of the road opposite the Bull temple with the sign: "Let many become one" (or let all become one)

Does anyone see the innuendo?

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