Vegetarian Discussion

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->कुंडा/प्रतापगढ़। पुलिस अधीक्षक के फरमान पर रात को सक्रिय हुई पुलिस की पांच ट्रक चालकों ने जमकर फजीहत की। यह ट्रक चालक इटावा से पश्चिम बंगाल गोकशी के लिए बैल ले जा रहे थे। पुलिस के पीछा करने पर इन चालकों ने दर्जनों बैरियर तोड़ डाले और सिपाहियों पर भी ट्रक चढ़ाने का प्रयास किया। हालांकि शहर में तीन व बाघराय एवं महेशगंज में एक-एक ट्रक पकड़े गए। इनमें 140 जानवर बरामद हुए है। ट्रक चालक तो भाग लिए लेकिन उनके साथ मौजूद नौ लोग पुलिस के हत्थे चढ़ गए।
http://www.jagran.com/news/statenews.aspx?...08037&stateid=1
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5 trucks full of bulls/cows captured by police at Kunda in Pratapgadh. At least 140 live cattle recovered. Trucks were smuggling these from Etawah to W Bengal for slaughter. 9 arrested. (some of them Hindu-sounding names btw, some muslim.)

So there is so much demand for beef in W Bengal that they have to illegally smuggle cows/bulls from outside? I believe WB is one of the states where cow slaughter is legal (TN, Kerala being others). Can someone confirm?

[Guest]

Not sure about TN, but it is legal on some states in NE (Sikkim for sure). Remember the issue of transporting cattle from TN to Kerala for slaughter (some time ago, but it may have changed with (x)MK politics in charge.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember the issue of transporting cattle from TN to Kerala for slaughter (some time ago, but it may have changed with (x)MK politics in charge.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yikes. But then the terrorists will go out of the way to do exactly that which is most anti-Hindu.


<!--QuoteBegin-sbajwa+May 26 2007, 02:08 AM-->QUOTE(sbajwa @ May 26 2007, 02:08 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Any comments about Fish oil capsules? vegetarian or non-veg?
How about protein supplements(shakes) that are available over the counter?
[right][snapback]69327[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Anything that contains an ingredient that's made from any part of an animal that had to die for it/lost a limb etcetera to it, is not vegetarian. By definition. (Hopefully it's clear what I mean. So it excludes milk because it doesn't kill the animal. Such a definition excludes wool - not that anyone eats wool - but this doesn't kill sheep. Where non-violence to fellow animals is concerned: leather kills the cow; in general glues are/were made of horses.)

- Capsules made of gelatine (from cows): non-veg. There are vegetable capsules available, they are marked as such
- All gelatine products therefore: non-veg. For instance, marshmallow and jelly are generally made from gelatine
- Cod-liver oil is made from cods: non-veg
- Cakes, pastry and other stuff that have "animal fat" in it: non-veg (again, animals had to die for this)

[Guest]

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Fish=omega 3
=wallnuts; so eat walnuts, forget about fish.
Even some variety of eggs these days have omega-3; well to get 1 egg/d, u don't have to kill that omega hen;
so, sunday ho ya monday
arre bhai roj khao aande.

[Guest]

<b>India's Holy Cow - The Sacred and The Suffering</b>

[Guest]

Omega is mainly made up of EPA and DHA. DHA may be helpful in maintenance of healthy eyes and brain.

When a person has let's say Flaxseed, body first converts it to ALA, then EPA and finally DHA. Some people's bodies may not be able to efficiently convert ALA finally into DHA.

Other sources of Omega-3, besides flaxseed, for vegans are walnuts, hemp, Soya bean, Chia seeds etc.

May I add here, fish get their Omega from algae so a company in USA 'Martek' has gone directly to the source of Omega i.e. algae and produced DHA from algae. This type of Omega is 100% vegan.

Also, companies like Nutru market this Martek vegan DHA in non-gelatin capsules. The product is called 'Omega-Zen-3'.

Your body can convert about 10% of the DHA you have back into EPA.

A company in Europe 'V-Pure' is now 'claiming' to manufacture both EPA and DHA from algae. I am not too sure about the claims of this company and their product is more expensive than DHA manufactured by Martek.

People who eat fish should note that because much of the Earth’s waters are polluted, experts advise that fish consumption may be risky and may lead to mercury poisoning plus maybe added dangers of PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), dioxins and pesticides on consuming fish.

Omega derived from algae, on the other hand, is produced in tanks in labs under strict watch so pure in quality and free from Contaminants.

Note: Eating foods rich in cholesterol can elevate an individual's risks of atherosclerosis and heart disease. Many such warnings have focused on eggs because their yolks are a major dietary source of cholesterol.

If you are healthy, it is recommended that you limit your dietary cholesterol intake to less than 300 milligrams (mg) a day. If you have cardiovascular disease, diabetes or high LDL cholesterol, limit dietary cholesterol intake to less than 200 mg a day. The yolk of one large egg has about 213 mg of cholesterol.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+May 27 2007, 09:15 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ May 27 2007, 09:15 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember the issue of transporting cattle from TN to Kerala for slaughter (some time ago, but it may have changed with (x)MK politics in charge.
[right][snapback]69392[/snapback][/right]
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k.ram ji, I am not sure about the legal position in TN. But on the ground, I have noticed by my own eyes, several years back, that cow-slaughter takes place openly, at least in kongunadu area (Coimbatore-Selam-Dharmapuri-Kerala border etc). Accidentally, once I had also noticed a butcher place the severed head of the calf as a decoration in front of their shop, to advertise the meat of the cow/calf that was slaughtered. Not sure if it was specific to that place or butcher alone, or a general practice. (can not rule out that these may well have been Kerala muslim butcher migrated to this area of TN. Such migration is going on)

Bakrid special. In Andhra and Karnataka the situation is very much like any Hindu dominated area like Haryana, MP etc - open cow slaughter not possible. In Telangana, again from the first hand experience, a muslim would think many times before attempting any such thing on an Id-ul-fitr (though many make attempts for sure). In UP, Haryana, MP etc - forget it.

<b>Questions to Bajwa ji</b>. What is the precise scriptural position on meat-eating in Sri Guru Granth? (I am not asking about common understanding or practice, but actual scriptural reference.) You had mentioned in another thread (DSS) that Langars used to serve meat at one time? Is that backed up by any historic documentation? Also what is it about Jhatka killing being sanctioned? Also any records about the eating preferances of the 10 Gurus?

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bakrid special. In Andhra and Karnataka the situation is very much like any Hindu dominated area like Haryana, MP etc - open cow slaughter not possible. In Telangana, again from the first hand experience, a muslim would think many times before attempting any such thing on an Id-ul-fitr (though many make attempts for sure). In UP, Haryana, MP etc - forget it. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In Telangana they usually stop with goats, they used to do it outside in the apt next to me on Id, cow was out of the question as the Yadavs used to live nearby.

[Guest]

Slaughter of cattle was done openly in Muslim localities near my home in Secunderabad.

[Guest]

Vishwasji, do you mean cow/bulls?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> By Bodhi..
What is the precise scriptural position on meat-eating in Sri Guru Granth? (I am not asking about common understanding or practice, but actual scriptural reference.) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well.. since SGGS has bani of many Bhakats you can proove/disapprove both sides. Sri Guru Nanak Dev himself says in SGGS that people who argue over food are fools. In other words Guru Nanak dev says that eating meat or not meat will not make you good/bad person. According to one popular folklore., Guru Nanak dev actually cooked meat at Kurukshetra and offered it to all Sadhus and his Sikhs. While Saint Kabir was strict vegetarian and his bani about vegetarianism is everywhere in SGGS. The bani of Third Guru Sri Guru Amardas ji also has hints of vegetarianism. The Fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji (who has the most bani in SGGS) also has hints of vegetarianism.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You had mentioned in another thread (DSS) that Langars used to serve meat at one time? Is that backed up by any historic documentation? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It is a very common knowledge., In a time of distress., Sikhs have often eaten meat. When Banda Bahadur was sieged at Gurdas Nangal (despite being a vaishanav) for over 10 months, his followers ate their horses.

The Sixth Guru., Sri Guru Hargobind ji who after martyrdom of his father (fifth guru Sri Guru Arjan dev ji at Lahore) told his followers to start wearing armaments, riding horses and be sporty. He organized many hunts as well as riding competition. The first ever skirmish between the Sikhs and Mughal emperor Jahangir was when Jahangir was hunting outside of Lahore while Sikhs under Guru Hargobind ji were also hunting at the same area., both parties clashed over some reason and Jahangir had to take flight. A month later when Guru Hargobind's daughter was to be married Jahangir sent 2000 cavalry under Painde Khan to Amritsar. Guru Hargobind defended Amritsar from Lohgarh fort. There were 3-4 more battles and at last Guru was arrersted and jailed at Gwalior along with 52 other Hindu Rajas from all over India (Naqshbandi muslims were gaining power in the court of Jahangir through his wife).

Then it is also said that when Guru Gobind Singh (after matrydom of his sons, father and mother) was at Nander (Maharashtra) he visited a renowned Bairagi. Banda Bairagi (as was later called) use to drink goat milk, Guru and his sikhs went to his hut, slaughtered goats and start cooking them., when Banda returned he became very angry (being a vaishnav) but when he saw Guru Gobind Singh he became quiet and on being asked by guru he replied that "I am your Banda" Banda means Slave. Thus Guru Gobind Singh told him that Kshtriya's dharm is not to be ascetic vaishanav but fighting for justice.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also what is it about Jhatka killing being sanctioned? Also any records about the eating preferances of the 10 Gurus? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There is evidence of little bit of meat eating but most of the Sikh Gurus were vegetarians. Some Rahitnama says that Sikhs can eat Jhatka meat (any meat that is sacrificed in the name of God is actually not allowed)., but on the whole the Sikhs have amended Rahitnama and declared that Khalsa Sikhs are 100% pure vegetarians while Keshdhari Sikhs (who have not taken a vow) can eat meat.

Guru Gobind Singh specifically told his Sikhs that in case you need to eat a meat, make sure it is a Jhatka (during many sieges any horses of goats that were sacrificed were Jhatka). All langar everywhere in the world is suppose to be totally vegetarian (no eggs either)

Do you know Daler Mahndi? He belongs to a Sect called "Bhatra Sikhs" These sikhs have gurudwaras mostly in Patna (Bihar) area where they have prepare goat meat on the side. They will call up just before langar telling everybody that vegetarians remain inside while those who want "Maha Prasad" can come outside or in the separate building.

[Guest]

Then... just after Maharaja Ranjit Singh., the sikh fight was mostly against the butchers. Sikhs murdered many muslim butchers (beef) all over united Punjab, Haryana, Himachal. More than 120 Sikhs were captured and blown by cannons by British to protect their beef supply.

[Guest]

<b>BSF fails to check cattle smuggling on Bangla border</b>
http://in.news.yahoo.com/070613/48/6gz0p.html

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->By IE
Thursday June 14, 02:17 AM

<b>Smuggling of cattle from the Indian side to Bangladesh has become a flourishing activity, </b>and this despite the presence of armed Border Security Force (BSF) personnel along the entire 4096-km border that the two countries share. According to BSF figures, in the first five months of the year, BSF has seized cattle worth over Rs 3.5 crore from being smuggled in the <b>Assam-Meghalaya sector.</b>

On June 1, BSF jawans seized 55 cattle heads from two groups of smugglers in the Mankachar belt in the Dhubri sector of western Assam. The total value of the animals seized was worked out to be around Rs 8.5 lakh. Since January, the total number of cattle heads seized in the Assam-Meghalaya sector alone has been 2,289. In <b>West Bengal,</b> the value of cattle seized was about Rs 1.2 lakh last year.

While a sizeable portion of the border in the Assam sector is still by and large unfenced, smugglers have become bold and attack BSF jawans who try to stop them from crossing. <b>It was in Mankachar in the Dhubri sector of western Assam that Bangladeshis butchered 17 BSF jawans. </b>

"While a special ambush party of the Kushnimara border outpost (BOP) challenged the smugglers - numbering about 20 to 25 - to stop, they attempted to attack our men with sharp weapons, forcing the BSF ambush commander to open fire," a BSF official at the Assam-Meghalaya sector headquarters in Shillong said.

BSF officials also said that the emergence of a number of cattle haats along the Indo-Bangladesh border in the Assam-Meghalaya sector has contributed directly to cattle smuggling. "<b>An overwhelming percentage of cattle that are traded in these haats are much beyond the local requirement of agriculture and milching, and the majority of these cattle are smuggled into Bangladesh</b>," the BSF official said.

P K Mishra, BSF Inspector-General for Assam and Meghalaya said cattle smuggling was particularly rampant in the Assam portions of the border. This was mainly due to the connivance of criminals on both sides of the border, he added.

Mishra said <b>cattle are transported from Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh to these haats</b>, following which smugglers herd them to the border villages and at an opportune time smuggle them out to Bangladesh. Whatever the BSF succeeds in preventing is only a small portion, he added.

While there is no legal bar in transporting cattle from other parts of the country, the BSF has been pressing for setting up officially and legally approved haats on the border so that export of cattle could be made legal and taxable.

Officials of the Assam Government too are of the opinion that export of cattle be made legal along the Indo-Bangla border. "We discussed the issue at the district-level coordination committee metings with the BSF and the Army. There are also incidents of cattle thefts," said Gautam Ganguly, Deputy Commissioner of Cachar. "The border needs to be properly fenced to stop this menace," said PS Mahanta, SP, Dhubri.
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[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Judge grants reprieve to Shambo the sacred bull
Simon de Bruxelles

Shambo, the sacred bull sentenced to death after testing positive for bovine tuberculosis, was granted a reprieve yesterday by a High Court judge.

The judge ruled that an order that Shambo be destroyed was unlawful and infringed the human rights of monks at the Hindu temple in Wales where he lives. The black bull has been isolated in a pen at the Skanda Vale temple complex near Carmarthen. Hindus had threatened to form a human wall to stop vets carrying out the Welsh Assembly’s order.

An appeal against yesterday’s ruling, made in the High Court in Cardiff, is to be heard on Friday.

Judge Gary Hickinbottom said: “It would be a particularly grave desecration of the temple and a very gross affront to their beliefs.

“It would undermine the spiritual power of the temples, painstakingly established over 35 years of disciplined religious observance.”

He said that the Assembly had failed to consider the full circumstances and alternatives to slaughter. However, he added: “This judgment does not guarantee that — as the Hindu community wishes — Shambo will live until he dies a natural death. This judgment merely rules that the decision to issue the slaughter notice was unlawful and will be quashed.”

Brother Alex, a monk who looks after Shambo, said: “We are delighted that the judge has vindicated our position. There are viable alternatives to the slaughtering of Shambo.”

The Farmers’ Union of Wales described the decision as ludicrous and a shambles. A spokesman said: “British justice is now content to put public health at grave risk. Today’s ruling could set disease control back by 70 years.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle2087263.ece
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Jagran gives photo of Shambhu, and also reports Wales govt will still take steps to destroy him - to move to supreme court challenging lower court's judgement,

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->लंदन। हिंदू संगठन टीबी ग्रस्त पवित्र सांड 'शंभू' को मारने के सरकारी फैसले पर रोक लगने से खुश हैं। वहीं, वेल्स सरकार धार्मिक भावनाओं के प्रतीक इस जानवर को मारने पर आमादा है। उसने हाईकोर्ट के फैसले को चुनौती देने की योजना बनाई है।
  सरकार के एक प्रवक्ता ने कहा कि शंभू के मामले में हाईकोर्ट के आदेश से हम खुश नहीं हैं। यह एक गंभीर मुद्दा है। इसका ताल्लुक इंसानों और पशुओं के स्वास्थ्य से जुड़ा है। शंभू को मारा नहीं गया तो उसके संपर्क में आने वाले दूसरे मवेशियों को भी टीबी हो सकता है। इसलिए हम उच्च अदालत में अपील करेंगे।

<img src='http://img.jagran.com/news/FixImages/nshambo.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

http://www.jagran.com/news/details.aspx?id=3560821#
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[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+May 28 2007, 12:57 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ May 28 2007, 12:57 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Vishwasji, do you mean cow/bulls?
[right][snapback]69420[/snapback][/right]
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Bodhi, I apologize for not replying at that time. Yes.

[Guest]

follow up on post 74:

<img src='http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44020000/jpg/_44020743_shambo203two_dns.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

<img src='http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44020000/jpg/_44020739_shambo203300_dns.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

The butchers (as jagran reports below, but might have meant vets) will come to temple on Thursday 8 am UK time, to take Shambhu away to be put to death. Monks of the Skanda temple say, it would not be easy for police, and they will allow no such thing. Most of the following of Sri Skanda Vale Mandir is white English Hindus - I am told.

Reports Jagran:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->लंदन। वेल्स स्थित एक मंदिर के पवित्र सांड़ शंभू को बृहस्पतिवार को मार दिया जाएगा। वह टीबी से ग्रस्त है। उसे बचाने के लिए दुनियाभर के हिंदू संगठन और मंदिर के श्रद्धालुओं ने एड़ी-चोटी का जोर लगाया। लेकिन ब्रिटेन के कानून के सामने धार्मिक भावनाओं को कोई महत्व नहीं दिया गया।
  ब्रिटेन की एक उच्च अदालत ने सोमवार को छह वर्षीय शंभू को मारने पर लगी रोक हटा दी थी। उसने वेल्स की प्रांतीय सरकार के फैसले को सही ठहराते हुए राज्य के हाईकोर्ट का फैसला रद्द कर दिया था। उसका कहना था कि बीमार शंभू अन्य मवेशियों को रोग ग्रस्त कर सकता है। यहां तक कि यह बीमारी इंसानों में भी फैल सकती है। हाईकोर्ट ने पहले इसे धर्म से जुड़ा मामला बताकर सरकारी आदेश को गलत ठहराया था। इसके बाद वेल्स सरकार ने उच्च अदालत में हाईकोर्ट के आदेश को चुनौती दी थी। शंभू की देखभाल करने वाले ने बताया कि <b>कसाई</b> सुबह आठ बजे आकर शंभू को ले जाएंगे।
http://www.jagran.com/news/details.aspx?id=3586262
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Guardian reports:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shambo to be taken for slaughter
Press Association
Thursday July 26, 2007 2:03 AM

Shambo the sacred bullock is to be taken for slaughter.

Otherwise known as Bullock UK 742266 200001, the six-year-old Friesian is to be destroyed after testing positive during a routine bovine tuberculosis screening.

A legal challenge to save Shambo by the Hindu monks who tend and revere him ended in failure at the Court of Appeal on Monday.

Welsh Assembly Government vets will attempt to take the animal from the Skanda Vale multi-faith community in Llanpumsaint, west Wales. But the community has warned Shambo's removal will not be easy.

One of the monks, Brother Michael, said: "There will be a lot of press here and lots of people here. They will have to physically desecrate a temple to get him.

"He's locked here and we will be having an act of worship in front of where he is.

"If the Welsh Assembly Government want to take him out of there they will have to interrupt an act of worship."

Brother Alex said: "They will have to come back with their warrant and, <b>no doubt, their gang of thugs."</b>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story...35,00.html
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BBC reports similar story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6916077.stm

So, an infected animal must die? Not infected humans? Well, remember, the Brits have killed the infected humans too - Indians know it well enough. While, the other Indians (of the AMerican continents) know it even better - their forefathers were infected to be killed.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shambo remains on his 'cam'  and in his pen this morning two hours after he was due to be collected for slaughter.

Monks warned vet inspectors they would need a warrant to enter the temple and imposed a lock-down blocking the lane with a car and locking the gates.

The veterinary inspector has gone to fetch a warrant from the local Magistrates. The saga continues.

Updates to follow

http://timesonline.typepad.com/faith/2007/...-off-at-sk.html
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<img src='http://timesonline.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/26/09_07_2007_110014_pa_courts_bull_1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[Guest]

How long this can be delayed?

[Guest]

Live webcam showing Shambhu: http://www.skandavale.org/webcam/webcam.htm
This site goes on and off due to the heavy traffic.

The issue is really about the double standards and hard nosed attitude of the inglistan government to Hindu issues.

The last update so far: (GMT times)

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->4.45pm
Police have returned and used bolt cutters to get access to the farm, BBC Wales reports. They are now removing people from temple area.

5.10pm
The Press Association is reporting the following:

A group of 20 police officers marched in and surrounded the temple after cutting the chain which had secured the gates. Some of those who had gathered to worship in front of Shambo had to be dragged and carried from the scene by officers after refusing to leave.
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and earlier:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1.50pm
The officials are back but they are struggling to get through the chanting and defiant crowd. The vet and the officials have gone back to their cars to consider the next move. They say they won't kill Shambo at the temple, but want to take him away for slaughter.

2pm
The officials are still mulling it over. Meanwhile, everyone seems to have a definite view on whether Shambo should live or die. Everyone, that is, except the former environment secretary David Miliband. It's a tricky issue he says, but it's one for the Welsh.

2.10pm
Still we wait for more news. While we do DII_Contents on Idle Time is suspicious about why MooTube is still unavailable.

2.30pm
The human shield protecting Shambo is holding strong. The officials don't know how to get around it. They may now get police reinforcements, according to BBC News 24.

But they have obtained, and now served, their warrant on the Skanda Vale community. No one would take the document so it was taped to the door of the temple. It confirms that the officials do have the right to take Shambo away for slaughter. But the question is how? They have to get through the human shield of chanting supporters, remove an altar in front of Shambo and get him through a locked gate. This could run for a little longer yet.

A spokeswoman for the Welsh assembly says they are not going into the logistics of the operation, but will get back to me with any more details if she can. She did say she's following this blog.

2.50pm
ShamboShambles' ballad of Shambo reminds me that the writer Michael Morpurgo wrote a brilliant Shambo fable for the Today programme. The Western Mail has reprinted it here.

3.10pm
It now emerges that the warrant gives the officials a whole month to take away Shambo. Surely it won't last that long.

In case you missed it here's Steve Bell's Shambo take on David Cameron.

Richard Moore, via email, writes: "Surely Shambo is in line to be reincarnated. Perhaps as a Carmarthen Magistrate? Have the slaughter team not heard of karma?"

3.35pm
Gangeticus from the US is following events in Camarthenshire. Posting on Ganges is My Spring of Life he says: "As a vegetarian myself (and a Hindu), the death of any life is abhorrent to me, but this case is the worst."

3.40pm
Officials are "taking advice" on what to do next. Will they storm the temple? Or will they leave it for a few days and hope the supporters go away?

4.15pm
According to this on the Debatable Land the fact that the Guardian is liveblogging Shambo is proof that the British love animals more than people. Mr Eugenides has a nice Shambo post tagged "Britain" and "Gallows Humour". It's been picked up by a Jewish community site in the states.

4.30pm
There are some Shambo films on YouTube here, here and here.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/..._slaughter.html
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[Guest]

Oh, and for sure, Hindu-"ism" experts from the universities have come crawling in, to support the killing!

'Shambo monks wrong' says expert. "expert" is someone by the name of Jay Lakhani.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Hindu educationalist has said that monks protecting a "sacred" bullock due for slaughter after a positive TB test have interpreted the religion wrongly.
Jay Lakhani told BBC Radio Wales Shambo should be put down for the "greater good" and that farmers had considered that wider picture.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The credibility of the religion had been put on the line by the actions of the Skanda Vale monks, he said.  Their interpretation of Hinduism was "naive" and "simplistic" he claimed.
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Please convert this fellow to the religion of love, or that of peace, to leave the rest of simplistic hindus alone.

There are some youTube films available that I cann't access due to this proxy.