Sikh History

[Guest]

That's funny, I went to the Smithsonian and I saw the same exhibit as well. It was really out of place, right next to the South American mammals or something.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It avoided all mentions of India or Hinduism. All it said was "Nanak Dev was raised in a Hindu family". Rest of the exhibit explained how Sikhs are "martial peoples" , how their "religion" is egalitarian and so on, and wealth of Punjab.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Must be funded by those who runs anti-hindu channel from DC.
Majority of Paki Sikhs are anti-hindu.
Here we get lot of Pro Paki and anti-Hindu newspapers published by Sikhs.
Editorial board in every newspaper are around 40% sikh, 30% Christians 30% Muslims.
http://amritsartimes.com/ print version and net version are totally different. Print version is anti hindu/anti-india

CHeck pictures of English version, and other headlines.
http://english.amritsartimes.com/index.p...at&catid=9

[Guest]

What are muslims & christians doing on the editorial board?

Are these papers actually run by them?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What are muslims & christians doing on the editorial board?

Are these papers actually run by them?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think some vested groups are fundng these paper, they are free and atleast 20 pages full size and survived for so long.

[Guest]

http://groups.msn.com/sikhmyths/yourwebpage1.msnw

Group which exposes many of the myths that modern day sikhs and khalistanis spew on a regular basis.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Sep 2 2007, 05:31 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Sep 2 2007, 05:31 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->http://groups.msn.com/sikhmyths/yourwebpage1.msnw

Group which<b> exposes </b>many of the myths that <b>modern day sikhs </b>and khalistanis spew on a regular basis.
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Was That Sikh hate an expose?
What do you mean by modern day Sikhs .

Pls be careful about selection of words.

[Bharatvarsh]

Oh so now telling facts becomes "hate", so why don't you tell us how the articles are all wrong, what individual members say on the message board can't be controlled, but please refute the articles.

And I think you know very well what he meant by "modern day sikhs", you know the kind that control almost every sikh forum online and who mostly keep hallucinating about some worldwide "bhaman" conspiracy to keep them down.

The reality is this site is very tame compared to the kind of nonsense that goes on day in and day out about Hindus on almost every sikh forum, there is a near total obsession with them being "not Hindu" (as if i care about that), they think the report on the recent Pakistani Gurudwara takeover by Muslims is some Hindu propaganda on sikh sangat even though the report first appeared in a Pakistani paper.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Sep 4 2007, 11:00 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Sep 4 2007, 11:00 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Was That Sikh hate an expose?
What do you mean by modern day Sikhs .
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes please elaborate and tell me what exactly about that group was hateful, because "modern day" sikhs themselves have their panties in a bunch because of that group and aren't willing to refute any of the articles in the site but instead are conspiring in their forums on how to hack it or take it down because it brings out all their dirty little secrets and demolishes many of the virulent and hateful lies they spew against hindus on a regular basis.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Mann grieves Bhindranwala wife's demise </b>
Pioneer News Service | Chandigarh
Shiromani Akali Dal(Amritsar) on Sunday expressed grief over the demise of Damdami Taksal chief Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale's widow Pritam Kaur's death.<b> Mann said that the Sikh nation is bereaved at the sad death of Bibi Pritam Kaur, a very heroic lady who provided strength and courage to her great Sikh martyred husband Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala</b>.

Mann said that after her husband's martyrdom she kept a stout equanimity, believing in the Sikh way of life and silently and quietly, never catching the public glare brought up her two sons Ishar Singh and Inderjit Singh.

Throughout her life, especially after Operation Bluestar she bore the terror of the Indian State, but she quietly and bravely bore the torture. He prays to almighty that in the service of Sikhism may she live on forever. 
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[Guest]

I am looking for answers -
1) History of SHIROMANI GURDWARA PARBANDHAK COMMITTEE, who were founders and why it was created?
2)Why Anglo-educated Sikhs get preference over Gur Sikh in Indian Gurdwara?
3) Why and when Gurdawara stopped showing Bhrama ,Vishnu and Shiva.
4) Chandi Charitar

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1) History of SHIROMANI GURDWARA PARBANDHAK COMMITTEE, who were founders and why it was created?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It arose out Gurudwara reform movement where there was a struggle for control in the 1920s:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->8. The Sikh assembly held on 15 and 16 November elected a committee of 175 members representing all the districts, Sikh states of the Punjab, other Indian provinces, and Sikh organizations in Burma, Malaya, China and North America. It also included the 36 government nominees in the committee which it named the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, SGPC for short.
9. The inaugural meeting of the SGPC was held at the Akal Takht on 12 December 1920. It appointed a subcommittee to draft the Committee's constitution. It elected Sardar Sundar Singh Majithia as president, Harbans Singh, of Atari, as vicepresident and Sundar Singh Ramgarhia as secretary.
10. The Majithia Sardar resigned early in 1921 to join the ministry set up under the Government of India Act, 1919, and Baba Kharak Singh was elected in his place president of the SGPC. The Committee was registered under the Societies Registration Act, 1860, on 30 April 1921.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/SGPC<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The struggle was for control from Udasis or other Mahants who were incharge of Gurudwaras until then.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2)Why Anglo-educated Sikhs get preference over Gur Sikh in Indian Gurdwara?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No clue.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Why and when Gurdawara stopped showing Bhrama ,Vishnu and Shiva.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends, whitewashing was done & still being done in many Gurudwaras where they painted over these frescoes, but it started about 1900 I guess, in 1898 Kahn Singh Nabha came out with "Ham Hindu Nahin" which laid the foundation, in 1879 Tat Khalsa was founded to counter Santan Singh Sabha (which considered Sikhs to be Hindus), so from around this time it was done.

But many Gurudwaras still have the frescoes & some of them can be found in this Nihangs picture collection:

http://flickr.com/photos/chitrakari/
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Chandi Charitar<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is part of the Dasam Granth which is attributed to Guru Gobind Singh ( but questioned by some Sikhs since it is too "Hinduistic"), there are 3 compositions, Chandi Charitra 1 & 2 in Braj, Chandi Di Var in Punjabi.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->CHANDI CHARITRA

The Chandi Charitra follows and in fact is a part of the Bachittar Natak. The aim of writing this piece was to inspire the common man to rise up against the tyrannical rulers of the time and to fight and sacrifice all they had for their freedom. He invokes the blessings of the Almighty God thus.

Deh Shive bar mohe ihe.
Shubh karman tey kabhoo na taron.

This composition is in the form sawaiye-an Indian metre of one and a quarter line. The mood is essentially forceful and fierce. The descriptions of the battles have been brought out beautifully through the use of similes and metaphors. The battle scenes are a true portrayal of the strategies and maneuvers of warfare as practiced in the times. The style is lucid and clear leading to a vivid and true presentation of the theatre of war. Although based on the Durga Saptashati of the Markandey Puran, the writings have an independent form and style giving them an identity of their own.

The third piece of writing associated with the portrayal of Chandi is called Chandi di Vaar. Written in fifty-five stanzas, this is the only composition this is in Punjabi. The first stanza of Chandi di Vaar forms the introductory part of the ardaas, the Sikh prayer.

Pritham bhagouti simar key
Guru Nanak layin dhyay....

Following the invocation, this composition highlights the major events and incidents about Chandi as mentioned in the ancient writings. The remaining portion is a description of war. Since it is written in such a clear style and deals with matters related to war it appeals strongly to soldiers and warriors. In the ancient times literature of this kind was read during the wars to enthuse the warriors to heights of glory and heroism even today the same tradition prevails.

The main reason for writing about Chandi so many times was that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted to affect a sea change in the mental make up of the society, to enthuse and encourage them for the war of Righteousness that he planned to undertake. Thus Chandi the embodiment of might in the female form was described in all her majesty and glory, her strength and might. And as expected through his inspirational writings the Guru was able to transform the character of the multitudes totally. At the same time, he agrandised the image of the mother placing it on a pedestal unequalled by any.

http://www.gobindsadan.org/dasamgranth/glory.shtml<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bir Ras (warrior themes) dominate these compositions.

On another note "Deh Shive" has been selected as "Khalistans national anthem".

[Guest]

Bharatvarsh,
What was British role in S.G.P.C formation and control of Gurdwara? Any idea when British stopped remote controlling SGPC or did it ever stopped? This happened after British missionaries failed to convert Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

Arur Singh, Raja Sir Daljit Singh and Gajjan Singh of Narangwal were British representative who even allowed demolishing wall of Gurdwara Rakab Ganj during transfer of the capital from Calcutta to Delhi in 1911.

My objective is go beyond what is current internet fora is saying.
I am trying to connect dots. What happened before that? Who instigated whole process, is it still under British control?

British so-called started reform, whenever British started so-called reform, actually it was to destroy that religion or group. It was always a long term project. If you look current situation, Sikhism is shrinking and from 1980-1990 they had received some breather from outside, and were pitched against their own people (Hindu or India). Weapons were given to them to protect Hindus from Islamic warriors. Now there is sea change in objective of Sikhism.
Whether current Sikhs believe or not, Sikhs were created as warrior group among Hindus on Western India during previous Islamic invasion (I consider current time is another wave of Islamic invasion in Indian Sub-continent).
Now they give more stress to Sufism side of Sikhism and completely erased warrior side of Sikh.

[Guest]

2)Why Anglo-educated Sikhs get preference over Gur Sikh in Indian Gurdwara?
A. That's not only w/ Sikhism but w/ every religion. All the religions want to show that they have following amongst the educated.

[acharya]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Oct 28 2007, 03:10 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 28 2007, 03:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bharatvarsh,
What was British role in S.G.P.C formation and control of Gurdwara? Any idea when British stopped remote controlling SGPC or did it ever stopped? This happened after British missionaries failed to convert Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

Arur Singh, Raja Sir Daljit Singh and Gajjan Singh of Narangwal were British representative who even allowed demolishing wall of Gurdwara Rakab Ganj during transfer of the capital from Calcutta to Delhi in 1911.

My objective is go beyond what is current internet fora is saying.
I am trying to connect dots. What happened before that? Who instigated whole process, is it still under British control?

British so-called started reform, whenever British started so-called reform, actually it was to destroy that religion or group. It was always a long term project. If you look current situation, Sikhism is shrinking and from 1980-1990 they had received some breather from outside, and were pitched against their own people (Hindu or India). Weapons were given to them to protect Hindus from Islamic warriors. Now there is sea change in objective of Sikhism. 
Whether current Sikhs believe or not, Sikhs were created as warrior group among Hindus on Western India during previous Islamic invasion (I consider current time is another wave of Islamic invasion in Indian Sub-continent).
Now they give more stress to Sufism side of Sikhism and completely erased warrior side of Sikh.
[right][snapback]74628[/snapback][/right]
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<span style='color:red'>
This is known as social engineering of the Sikh religion by the British over 100 years.
</span>
This social engineering is going after everything about how the Sikha feel about their own religion, their history, their relationship with other communities in India, their relationship with Muslims, their interpretation of their entire religion.

This may be the largest project ever attempted against a religion by the BRitish.

The main reason for manufacturing and brainwashing the Sikhs is to go after the ultimate target - that is the Hindus.

They want to remove all connections of the other religions from the Hindus so that they can attack the Hindu religion.


They are trying to control the sikh religion an reinterpret its core belief rooted in India to something else according to their geo-political goals.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Oct 28 2007, 11:10 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 28 2007, 11:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What was British role in S.G.P.C formation and control of Gurdwara? Any idea when British stopped remote controlling SGPC or did it ever stopped? This happened after British missionaries failed to convert Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

Arur Singh, Raja Sir Daljit Singh and Gajjan Singh of Narangwal were British representative who even allowed demolishing wall of Gurdwara Rakab Ganj during transfer of the capital from Calcutta to Delhi in 1911.

<b>My objective is go beyond what is current internet fora is saying.
I am trying to connect dots. What happened before that? Who instigated whole process, is it still under British control?</b>

British so-called started reform, whenever British started so-called reform, actually it was to destroy that religion or group.
[right][snapback]74628[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

VS Naipaul, in "Magic Seeds" tries to diagnose this British role, and what he says is really compelling. (although he then turns the plot of the novel to show the hollowness of andhra-ite naxal movement)

1860s onwards, that is once India had formally become a jewel in the crown of the Queen, British already had a well-thought master plan of how they will rule the vast land called 'Hindoostan' populated by the tens of millions of humans, using mere 5 to 10 thousand Englistani men - making it cost-effective. That is by the policy of 'divide and rule'. Make each group hate each other. Naipaul says the plot they knit was so successful and so far reaching that the true effects of their plot - we are now seeing and shall see in the times to come.

Once you connect the dots you are talking about, you would reach at the same picture. Seeds of all the separation go back to the racial theory ...AIT, Shaka/Kushana/Huna myths, obliteration of indigenous Historic narrative etc.. "Dravid" and "Sikh" (and "Dalit") separation were fanned using the two different sides of the same canard - that Sikhs a "martial race" and Dravids (and "Dalits") a "servile race", both wronged by the vile Brahmans.

But the first challenge was that the Gurudwara-s were managed by very pro-Hindu traditional mahants, and Sikhs-Hindus were but one. And as long as these elemens controled Gurudwara-s, Sikhs would continue to be part of the same synthesis that is Hindutva. So target them, and vilify them just like brahmanas.

Is it still under british control?

Hmm.... British set in motion a HUGE and MASSIVE cycle of change. Due to the momentum of inertia, it took time to settle in. But now, as the motion is set, the same inertia makes the motion continue, even though it might not be in British control any more.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1860s onwards<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think in 1857 they realized, we are unable to convert them, how about destroying them. If you think this was only martial group created to protect rest of India and were positioned at most volatile Western front. After Independence, Nehru continued same process and demand of Punjabi Suba and later Khalistan.
Master Tara Singh was Hindu later converted or excepted then tradition of adopting Khalsa (Sikhism) after flirting with Christianity for short duration.

Now, Sikhs are just following sufi concept except Nihangs and other Gur Sikh.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is it still under british control?

Hmm.... British set in motion a HUGE and MASSIVE cycle of change. Due to the momentum of inertia, it took time to settle in. But now, as the motion is set, the same inertia makes the motion continue, even though it might not be in British control any more. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From time to time they provide flames, even now and keep momentum according to their dream and goal to rule/control world.

Sikhs are small group if you compare with Hindus, smae process is on from all direction.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Oct 28 2007, 03:25 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 28 2007, 03:25 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1860s onwards<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think in 1857 they realized, we are unable to convert them, how about destroying them. If you think this was only martial group created to protect rest of India and were positioned at most volatile Western front.
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in 1857, Sikhs were with British. Not just with them passively, like the Rajputs and some Maratha-s, but pro-actively and combatively helped angrej crush the 1857 raising. Anti-British sense ended with Maharaja Ranjit Singh in 1830s. After that British used Sikhs in their Afghan-side of the great game. So they found Sikhs to be useful. Dilip Singh was converted and was buried in London.

Sikhs did turn around later in the next cenury, but never realized the larger game fully or completely. Nor did the rest of the country. Or turn of events were too fast. Even now, how many realize the game Angrez played! Angrez that killed millions of our ancestors directly! How many even feel bitter about the colonial history!

[ramana]

How accurate is this site on Punjab History?

http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/librar...?Action=History

[Guest]

Read this and you will get idea, <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Check timeline -
http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/librar...on=Page&Param=5

They just skipped Mahabharat etc, Everything happened in marathon speed, after Aryan Chariot reached Punjab and those Aryan sat near sugarcane farm and started writing Vedas and created caste system, later Sati started.

Totally skipped Arya Samaj, RSS and Radha Swami movement. After 1947,no more talk on Hindus.

Current Sikhs don't know, why Khalsa Panth came into existance? They are more towards land, state and Sufism.

So again, it seems British long term project is showing results.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The portrait of Bhindranwale was installed in the museum of the Golden Temple on November 29. During the installation ceremony SGPC chief Avtar Singh Makkar, Jatehdar Akal Takht Gyani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Isher Singh son of slain militant leader Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and serving chief of Damdami Taksal Baba Harnam Singh Dhuma were also present besides others.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now why they had chosen this time?