Rama Setu -2

[Guest]

Bodhi,
Excellent. Sanskrit would have been much better. Way to go, <!--emo&:cool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Sanskrit next time Mudy. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Contrary to the public announcements that the committee procedures will be for public hearings the deliberations are being held in a secretive setting. The persons who have submitted petitions are NOT being given the date and time for the public hearing. During the hearing, only the petitioner is allowed inside without any journalists or lawyers being allowed to be present. The whole proceedings are designed to arbitrarily shut out expression of views, lack transparency and are patently an unjust, unfair process, contrary to law and certainly contrary to the undertakings given to the Hon'ble Supreme Court by the counsel for the Union of India.

http://kalyan97.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/r...tee-procedures/<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I always suspected that this entire 'public hearing' exercise would be a dishonest one, more so after seeing the names of the committee members. The committee was set up to be simply eyewash and the report that's going to come out from this is going to be a squirt of verbal diarrhoea, just like many of the government reports earlier (Sachar committee report on the muslim welfare and the report on the Godhra train carnage).

[Guest]

http://www.livemint.com/2007/10/26234927/A...ired-in-Se.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Fri, Oct 26

<b>Alternative N-fuel mired in Sethu waters</b>
India is home to more than a <b>quarter of the world’s thorium, but about half of these deposits are on the Tamil Nadu coast</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4 page article.
The above was linked from http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/09/27/voi...-sethusamudram/

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Statement by Dr.Subramanian Swamy before the SSCP Committee </span>

October 31, 2007 in Chennai.

1. Since this Committee is of the Respondent Union of India in Transfer Case No. 26&27 in the Supreme Court, my statement may be taken as made to assist the Respondent to draft a revised counter-affidavit to be filed later in Court. My Writ Petition is in the nature of a public interest litigation and hence non-adversarial.

2. I have already in writing submitted on October 28th to this Committee the main points that need to be considered, before this Committee makes a recommendation to it's master, the Union of India on the content that should be the basis of a fresh counter-affidavit. These written submissions are part of, and taken by the Committee as a portion of my statement today.

3. In keeping with the public statement of the Union Law Minister, H.R. Bhardwaj that Sri Rama is as real to Hindus as Ganga and the Himalayas, and the statement in Court of the Additional Solicitor General, Mr. Gopal Subramaniam that the Union of India is open to considering alternative channel alignment that meets the aspiration of the people, I urge the Committee members here to shed their past positions on the subject, and advise the Union Shipping Ministry to drop Channel Alignment No. 6 as violative of the Constitution, the statutory provisions on public order, a gross breach of environmental norms, and a serious threat to national security. I have suggested an alternative alignment through the Mandappan area, and if this Committee considers it as not feasible for any rational reason, then the Sethusamudram Channel Project may be abandoned.

4. The current cost-benefit analysis of the project, irrespective the alignment chosen is heavily flawed and based on unacceptable, untenable, and highly conjectural data. The public statement of the Union Shipping Minister, Mr. T.R. Baalu that the internal rate of return on the project investment is in excess of 10 percent is false. Any reasonable, albeit tentative calculation will place the IRR at less than 2.75 percent. Moreover, the DPR of the project has no social costing, social auditing, or a discussion of the social discount rate for a more accurate present value calculation. Hence, it is a grossly incomplete analysis, and needs to be re-worked and drafted with greater transparency.

5. Now that it is apparent that the people of India will not brook any damage to the Rama Setu, this Committee should consider recommending to the Union government of India that the Rama Setu be declared as an ancient monument with the meaning the law passed by Parliament, develop infrastructure for it as a site for pilgrimage, and that the government approach the UNESCO to have it declared as a World Heritage Site. The Committee may also recommend to the government that the mischievous British Imperialist hangover of regarding the two Sanskrit words, "Arya" and "Dravida" as two distinct racial communities of different geographical origins, and which mischief has grossly sullied the debate on the viability of the SSCP, be notified as violative of Section 295 of the IPC, and cognisable offence.

(Subramanian Swamy)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Personal hearing of Dr Kalyanaraman by Setu Committee, held on 31 October 2007 </span>

Dr. Kalyanaraman reports:

I was surprised that the Committee should ask me to provide them with copies of the Madras HC judgement of 19 June 2007 and references to Setu in Sangam and ancient Tamil texts. In addition to the Chairman and Member Secretary, there were 5 members of the Committee. Outside the Committee room, there is a big announcement that it is a PRIVATE HEARING. This is in violation of the high democratic traditions promised by ASG in the Supreme Court for listening to alternative views. Anyway, I just had 25 minutes to present my views in addition to my written submission. The big announcement said that only 10 minutes are allowed. So much for transparency of the Committee process which is clearly a command performance, expected to submit their report on Nov. 11. I hope and pray that the Committee members will have the integrity to go through all the volumes of submissions carefully and with due diligence. Hope springs eternal even in a criminalised polity.
============================

Rama Setu: Objections on Setu channel, submitted to CEPSSCP by Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Chennai, 31 October 2007 (Regd. Post Ack. Due)

To:

Member Secretary, Committee of Eminent Persons on Sethu Samudram Shipping Channel Project, MALLIGAI, No. 30/95, P.S. KUMARASAMY RAJA (GREENWAYS) ROAD, Chennai - 600 028. Tel No. : 044-24959005, 24959006

Respected sir,

Sub: Request for opportunity for presentation before the Committee

Thanks for providing me an opportunity for PRIVATE HEARING on 31 October 2007 between 10 and 10:25 AM.

As requested, I am attaching herewith two documents:

1. Madras HC judgement of 19 June 2007 in 11 pages detailing why Rama Setu should be declared as an Ancient Monument under the 1958 Act. You may note that the Hon'ble Court noted that irrespective of whether the Rama Setu is man-made or natural, it meets the criteria for such a declaration.

2. References to Setubandhanam in Tamil texts starting from Akananooru, Sangam age text and also Manimekalai and Silappadikaaram.

I would like to reiterate the oral submissions made by me highlighting the following aspects making it imperative to shelve the Setu mid-ocean channel passage project:

· Nature magazine of 6 Sept. 2007 indicates the ongoing plate tectonic activity in Sunda plate and the impending tsunami more devastating than the 26 Dec. 2004 tsunami.

· There has been serious neglect in not conducting detailed studies and total review of the project in the wake of the Dec. 2004 tsunami and impossibility of providing protective measures in the channel and locks on either end of the channel rendering the channel a navigational hazard and a national security issue.

· References to the responsibility of public servants under Section 295 and 304 of IPC in ensuring that there is no hurt to sentiments of communities and the minimizing of loss of lives by any project alternatives.

· The ongoing loot of thorium deposits (monazite sand) place deposit accumulations south of Rama Setu and the national imperative to protect these accumulations thanks to Rama Setu acting as a sieve with clock-wise and counter-clock-wise ocean currents.

· Reference to the FIR of 19 pages lodged in Madurai Bench of Madras HC about illegal export of thorium-containing sands from sand godowns.

· Failure to involve the Geological Survey of India in the project design.

· Arbitrary drawing of a channel passage 3 kms. west of the medial line between India and Srilanka without pre-project bathymetry and oceanographic studies.

· Failure to involve National Institute of Oceanography.

· Interference by US Navy Operational Directive of 23 June 2005 and inauguration of the project on 2 July 2005 disregarding the Sirimavo Bandaranaike-Indira Gandhi declaration of June 1974 declaring the Gulf of Mannar-Palk bay waters as HISTORIC WATERS. US Navy treating these as international waters is ominous and impinges upon India's national sovereignty effectively succumbing to US pressures creating an international boundary which Sir A Ramaswamy Mudaliar Committee categorically sought to avoid. The Commiteee had also categorically stated that any idea of cutting a channel passage through Rama Setu should be ABANDONED because of the impossibility of controlling sedimentation in the region and the Committee suggested a land-based canal across Mandapam with protective measures and locks on the lines of the land-based Suez or Panama Canals. Fisherfolk from India and Srilanka have historically had rights to use the aquatic resources as a shared commonwealth.

· Failure of NEERI to take into account the sedimentation rates, recurrence of cyclones and tsunamis.

· Madras HC judgement of 19 June 2007 in 11 pages is a categorical acceptance of the 3000 pages of evidence submitted and the Court observation that the Rama Setu is an Ancient Monument under the 1958 Act. The Court also referred to Section 295 IPC and the recommendations of Sir A Ramaswamy Mudaliar Committee.

· References to Setu in Parantaka Chola's copper plate (Velanjeri) of 10 th century, 1903 Madras Presidency Administrative Manual, 1972 Ramanathapuram Gazetteer, sculptures showing setubandhana in a panel on Parambanan temple in Indonesia (published by Archaeological Survey of India), unprofessional nature of the withdrawn ASI affidavit in the Supreme Court and failure of project reports to recognize the archaeological, cultural and religious importance of the Setutirtha, Chittoor Rani Padmini's baaraat taking place on Rama Setu (since her birthplace was Jaffna) which has always functioned as a land-bridge between India and Srilanka, meaning of the word 'setu' in Tamil meaning 'ceyarkarai' (artificial bund), bund as an English word coming from Bandha of Indian languages, imperative of declaring it as Ancient Monument, recommendation to declare it as World Heritage and as Divyakshetra on the lines of the declaration by AP Govt. for Tirumala pilgrimage place.

E&OE. I have a request to make. Please do make available to me a copy of the transcript of my oral submission since my submission has been videographed.

Thanking you,
Dr. S. Kalyanaraman

http://kalyan97.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/r...e-kalyanaraman/
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Shekhar Dasgupta interviewed M Karunanidhi recently. A couple of questions and responses from the interview:

SD: People in the Congress are not happy. They think you made a statement that the Valmiki Ramayan describes Lord Ram as a drunkard.

MK: Yes, please read it. <b>Even now I say that Valmiki has written that. What does Valmiki say? He says, ‘Hanuman tells Sita that because of being separated from her Ram has not touched any liquor.’</b> Tell me, does this not figure in Valmiki? I’ll show you Valmiki (Ramayan).

SD: Have you read the Valmiki Ramayan?
MK: Yes. The Valmiki Ramayan and the Tulsidas Ramayan too. <b>In fact, in the Tulsidas Ramayan, Sita is not Ram’s wife but his sister. Only in the Valmiki Ramayan is she his wife. In many versions of Ramayan, she is his sister.</b>

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sethu panel keeps hearings private

Deccan Chronicle, 1 November 2007

The Committee of Eminent Persons on Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project is holding public sittings in Chennai, but there is nothing public about it. The committee proceedings began on Monday at the Malligai bungalow on  Greenways Road, where most state ministers and high court judges live and the  question that is agitating the public and the Sethu scholars alike is why the media is being kept out.

"This is not a public sitting. It is a private hearing involving those making their presentations and the members of the committee. We will issue press releases at the end of each day's proceedings. We do not want a media presence beyond this," Professor S. Ramachandran, vice-chancellor of the Madras University, chairing the nine-member Sethu committee, told this newspaper. <b>However, no press release came. </b>

Officials of the Chennai Port Trust are manning the entry points at Malligai and their main task appears to be to identify media persons and shoo them away. "We are not even allowing the Kalaignar TV crew, why should we let you in?" quipped a babu at the gate. The police is doing its bit in screening the visitors, who are either campaigners for the Rs.2,500 crore project that is expected to fulfill the 150-year Tamil dream or "spoil-sport activists" trying hard to get it shot down.

<b>"There is a big announcement outside the committee room saying it is a private hearing. This is in violation of the high democratic traditions promised by the additional solicitor general in the Supreme Court for listening to alternative views on the Sethu project," said Dr S. Kalyanaraman, chairman of the Saraswati Foundation and one of the opponents of the projects, who made his 25-minute presentation before the committee on Wednesday. </b>

Chief minister M. Karunanidhi and his nominee T. R. Baalu heading the Union shipping ministry are convinced that the Sethu project will sail through, overcoming the hiccups caused by court cases mostly inspired by the Sangh Parivar taking up the issue of the Ramar Sethu, the legendary bridge built by the Hanuman brigade for Rama to rescue Sita from Ravanan's Lanka.

Informed sources say Mr Baalu had handpicked most of the members of the Sethu committee, constituted by the Centre following a directive from the Supreme Court hearing petitions against the Sethu project, including one from the Janata Party president Dr Subramaniam Swamy. <b>Interestingly, Prof Ramachandran had come to the venue of the fast led by Mr Karunanidhi on the Sethu issue at Chennai on October 1 and even presented a shawl and flowers to the chief minister, announcing his political leanings rather loudly.</b>

"How do you expect such a person to conduct this committee in a non-partisan, fair and scientific manner?" asked Dr Swamy, terming the committee as <span style='color:red'>"BARC, Baalu's anti-Ram Committee"</span>. Sources said the committee of eminent persons could  do with more experts, considering that some of <b>its members were not adequately informed about the intricacies of the issues involved, particularly the complicated issues of undersea dredging, navigation calculations and terrorist-threats. "I was surprised that the committee should ask me to provide them with copies of the Madras high court judgement of 19 June (2007) and references to Sethu in Sangam and ancient Tamil texts,"</b> said Dr Kalyanaraman, emerging from his session with the committee.

Capt Hariharan Balakrishnan was another expert who came with a detailed affidavit to "educate" the committee on the navigational and security aspects allegedly ignored by Mr Baalu and team. <b>"Four pens dropped to the floor and I found the members suddenly sitting up when I told the committee that the Sethu Channel will not reduce the distance for large vessels sailing between Athens and Singapore but actually increase it by 63 nautical miles.  I told them this project made no nautical sense," Capt Balakrishnan said speaking to this newspaper.</b>

http://www.deccan.com/chennaichronicle/hom...gs%20%20private
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MK: Yes, please read it. Even now I say that Valmiki has written that. What does Valmiki say? He says, ‘Hanuman tells Sita that because of being separated from her Ram has not touched any liquor.’ Tell me, does this not figure in Valmiki? I’ll show you Valmiki (Ramayan).

SD: Have you read the Valmiki Ramayan?
MK: Yes. The Valmiki Ramayan and the Tulsidas Ramayan too. In fact, in the Tulsidas Ramayan, Sita is not Ram’s wife but his sister. Only in the Valmiki Ramayan is she his wife. In many versions of Ramayan, she is his sister.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seers from Udipi (Karnataka) had challenged MK for debate on this. As far as I know MK has not accepted it and is still spreading his lies and innuendo.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sethu panel keeps hearings private <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
His whole committee is a kangroo court where the conclusion is already decided. The hearings are paint job to fool the naieve types. Let's see how long this continues.

[Guest]

Karunanidhi mourns the death of LTTE leader Thamilselvan, Congress distances itself

[Guest]

<img src='http://newstodaynet.com/images/stories/columns/sharpshot/2007-images/0511-sun-2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Dr. Ramachandran, who is chairman of the SSCP Commmity of Eminent Persons, presented a shawl to M Karunanidhi on 1-10-2007, when the latter was staging a fast against the Judgement of the Supreme Court imposing a ban on the DMK bandh.

Can people of India expect imparitial, unbiased and objective attitude from this person bowing to M Karunanidhi like a devotee to his Lord? But he is appointed to head the committee to consider the objections and suggestion to the SSCP.

What a Joke!

[Guest]

<b>Oil Spill Disasters and Sethusamudram – I: A Total Loss Accident Every 18 years?</b>
By <i>Sarvesh Kumar Tiwari</i>

Tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/3avhtr

[Guest]

Lady Taliban goes on....

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->‘Floating stones have no link with Sethu’

Statesman News Service

NEW DELHI, Dec. 6: Floating stones have no link with Ram Sethu. Even if there is, as those opposing the controversial Sethusamudram Canal project claim, the Centre is not aware of any expert opinion or evidence that links the floating stones or any other ancient stones with Ram Sethu.

This is exactly what the Centre told the Lok Sabha today in reply to a question by a member, Mr Hemlal Murmu, regarding floating stones.

The question was if the government is aware that the ancient stones of the Ram Sethu are available in many states, especially in Giridh district of Jharkhand and those stones float on water like a paper boat.

Replying to this, Union minister for tourism and culture, Ms Ambika Soni, said: “The Archeological Survey of India (ASI) is not aware of any expert opinion or evidence linking the Giridh or any other ancient stones with Ram Sethu.”

Mr Murmu also asked if according to experts the aforesaid stones were part of the Ram Sethu till 1480 (B.C.) and British expert CD Maclin has mentioned this in his book “Manual of the Administration of the Madras Presidency” published in 1903.

To this, the minister admitted that the book “Manual of the Administration of the Madras Presidency” edited by CD Maclean and first published in 1885 makes a mention of Ram Sethu and the line of rocks which were carried from Himalayas. But the ASI is not aware of any expert opinion or evidence linking floating stones with Ram Sethu.

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?...ess=1&id=179475
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Lady Taliban (who is a catholic) is joined by a male comrade:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee on Thursday questioned the existence of Lord Ram.

"Ram was born in the imagination of poets and Ram Sethu is a natural formation under the sea," Bhattacharjee told a meeting to mark the 15th anniversary of the demolition of Babri Masjid.

<i>{At least, the Laal-Salaam of Nandigram and Haraa-Salaam of Kidderpur Kolkata were real events, not an imagination of any poet.!}</i>

He said the Sethusamudram project was being opposed by the Sangh Parivar on religious ground, but it was vital for economic development of the region.

Reacting to Bhattacharjee's remarks, state Bharatiya Janata Party general secretary Rahul Sinha on Friday said the remarks were an attempt to appease the Muslim vote bank after the fiasco in Nandigram [Images].

"Ram is a matter of faith and Communists had always hated god-men. They even spread calumnies against Tagore and Swami Vivekananda," he said.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/07ram.htm
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In fact the angreji papers or any online resource does not mention Buddhadeb's (what a name! Parents must be ashamed) complete statement.

Hindi, Bangali news papers - print version - of today mention:

He also criticised Dr Shyama Prasad Mukherjee - saying thankfully Mukherjee's venom did not spread in Bengal.

He also pooh-pooh'ed Bankim Chandra Chatterjee - saying although the novelist was a great man, but how could he fall to the level of writing a work like Anand Math!!!

The novel Anand Math is where Vande Matram comes from, and it describes a Hindu freedom movement led by armed Sannyasi-s against the islamic tyranny in Bengal.

[Guest]

Ramasethu Yathra to arrive at Sira
Sira, December 8, 2007

The Ramasethu Shila Yathra will arrive to the city on December 8, said taluk BJP President Baraguru Tippeswamy and Secretary R V Puttakamanna. They have requested the public to participate in large number.

The yathra will be accorded a grand welcome at the banyan tree of Jyothinagar and will pass through main streets such as Ranganath nagar, Kalidasa nagar and will join Bannimantap.

Later, an open meet will be held at Sri Narayanaswamy wedding hall, they added.

<b>Convention</b>
The taluk BJP has stated that the party’s convention will be held on November 14 in the premises of Lakshmi Venkateshwara wedding hall.

District BJP President K S Kiran Kumar will inaugurate the office. Former Minister S Shivanna will inaugurate the convention. Taluk BJP President Baraguru Thippeswamy will preside over.

MP S Mallikarjunaiah will participate as the chief guest. Several dignitaries will participate, he stated in a press note.

[Guest]

Rama Setu: Govt. panel gets back, go on with Setu channel
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Staying clear of Ram, Govt panel gets back: No proof of man-made structure, go on with Sethu

Anubhuti Vishnoi

Posted online: Sunday, December 09, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST

NEW DELHI, DECEMBER 8

Forced to call off work on the Rs 2,427-crore Sethusamudram Ship Channel Project after an embarrassing affidavit doubting the existence of Ram kicked off a political storm, the Ministry of Shipping can now heave a sigh of relief.

The Sunday Express has learnt that an expert committee report, factoring in views from diverse quarters, has given the green signal for the flagship project to resume. The report, running into 150 pages and two volumes, has stated in its recommendations that “there is no evidence — archaeological or scientific — to prove the existence of any man-made structure.”

<b>Stung the last time, the committee has safely steered clear of “Ram,” even refraining from using the term “Ram setu” anywhere.</b> And has underlined its existence as a geo-morphological feature/formation similar to those found in several parts of the world. Photos of similar features of chains of shoals have been included in the report. The expert committee report has also cleared the current alignment as the most feasible.

<b>“The report clearly says that there is no tangible evidence to prove any man-made structure at the project location. </b>The Adam’s bridge or Ram Setu is like several other geo-morphological features. The committee, however, has taken viewpoints of all those who wrote to it and appeared before it for a personal hearing. These views have also been put in the report. Its recommendations are in favour of the project after having examined all issues,” a senior official said.

The project envisages dredging of a near 90-km-long channel across the Palk Straits between India and Sri Lanka that will allow ships sailing between the east and west costs of India to have a straight passage through India’s territorial waters, instead of having to circumvent Sri Lanka. This will cut an estimated 780 km and up to 30 hours in sailing distance and time.

The 10-member committee received several representations. Over 2,000 applications from states were posted to the committee for or against the project and with suggestions. Several personal hearings were also held.

So much so that with the massive response to the committee — 130 persons appeared before it within a fortnight of it being formed — the committee sought more than the stipulated one-month time from the government to submit its report.

<b>That report is due to be submitted to the Supreme Court by December 11 but sources told The Sunday Express that the government is likely to buy a little more time to examine the report before submitting it. With the Ministry of Culture’s affidavit having caused enough damage to the project, the UPA wants to tread very carefully this time. </b>

The views raised before the committee span the entire gamut of issues on the controversial project ranging from economic viability to environmental, navigational, security, historical, religious, social and developmental factors.

The expert panel recently came in for criticism with several people questioning the credibility and neutrality of its members, many of whom are actively associated with the project. <b>But the apex court turned down the plea made by Janata Party President Subramaniam Swamy — he has also testified to the committee — that the panel be scrapped and replaced by “independent experts.” </b>

The committee was constituted by the government in October and invited objections and suggestions from all concerned including the petitioners in the cases in the Supreme Court having interest in the project.

Its members are: Prof S Ramachandran, Chairman of the Monitoring Committee on Environmental Impact Issues for the Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project and Vice Chancellor of Madras University; S R Wate, Deputy Director, National Environmental Engineering Research Institute (NEERI), Nagpur; R K Jain, Managing Director, Indian Ports Association; M. Sakthivel, president of Aqua Culture Foundation of India; R S Sharma, former professor of History, Delhi University; Dilip K. Biswas, former chairman of the Central Pollution Control Board; J R B Alfred, former Director of Zoological Survey of India, Kolkata; P. Jagadeesan, former Vice-Chancellor of Bharatidasan University, Tiruchi; Y. Vaikuntham, former VC of Kakatiya University and K. Paddayya, director, Deccan College, Pune. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

so the boring drama of the fake committee is over. which was like an interval in a movie to slow down the tone in the aftermath of the congressi blunder. back to the business. Buddhoo Bhattacharya has already set the tone.

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mann vows to contest against Sukhbir
Tribune News Service
Patiala, December 10

Training his guns on Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal and SAD working president Sukhbir Singh Badal, SAD (A) president Simranjit Singh Mann has asserted that he would contest the next elections against Sukhbir.

“No matter which seat of Parliament or Assembly he chooses for this purpose, I will contest against Sukhbir Badal and would not allow him to win the poll. He would have to contest the poll if he is made the Chief Minister. Parkash Singh Badal is following in the footsteps and policies of former Chief Ministers Darbara Singh, Beant Singh and Capt Amarinder Singh.

“Badal, in a way, is propagating Hindutva in Punjab. My job is to educate Sikhs about issues concerning them and I will keep performing this duty,” said Mann as he came out of the local Central Jail.

Mann sought to kick-start another controversy by saying that there was “no scientific or historical significance of Ram Setu”. He added “the Ramayana was an epic that was created by Aryans to coerce Dravids in their own way. Ravana was, indeed, a good character and Sikhs should desist from burning his effigies”.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/2007121...ab1.htm#15<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

If this Mann has the balls, let him start a campaign to take out 341st page of Guru Granth Sahib.
Rama Setu: Sri Guru Granth Sahib on 341st page

Ram occurs in Guru Granth over 2500 times.
translation from Hindi of the chapter "Ram" in the book Adi Shri Guru Granth Sahib ki Mahima by Dr. K.P. Agrawal, published by Voice of India

There's no cure for Mann's foot-in-mouth.

I'm sure there'll be many takers to burn Mann's effigies instead of Ravan's.

[shamu]

Rather Badal should turn the table around saying that Mann is defaming the Granth and is an anti-sikh. Quote the section from Guru Granth Sahib.

[Bharatvarsh]

Viren there are numerous references to Hindu gods in SGGS but I doubt these Khalistani clowns ever read it or even if they did they rely on twisted English translations (most of the Granth is NOT in Punjabi) which translate every mention of a Hindu deity name as "God".

The Granth not only talks about Eeshwara as not having a form but also having a form (most sikhs today vehemently deny such a thing because most have never bothered to read it).

Here is a sample:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥

achuth paarabreham paramaesur antharajaamee ||

The Supreme Lord God is imperishable, the Transcendent Lord, the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts.

6 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨ ਦਾਮੋਦਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥

madhhusoodhan dhaamodhar suaamee ||

He is the Slayer of demons, our Supreme Lord and Master.

6 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਰਿਖੀਕੇਸ ਗੋਵਰਧਨ ਧਾਰੀ ਮੁਰਲੀ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥

rikheekaes govaradhhan dhhaaree muralee manohar har rangaa ||1||

The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1||

6 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਮੋਹਨ ਮਾਧਵ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥

mohan maadhhav kirasa muraarae ||

The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego.

7 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਜਗਦੀਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥

jagadheesur har jeeo asur sanghaarae ||

The Lord of the Universe, the Dear Lord, the Destroyer of demons.

7 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਵਾਸੀ ਹੈ ਸੰਗਾ ॥੨॥

jagajeevan abinaasee thaakur ghatt ghatt vaasee hai sangaa ||2||

The Life of the World, our eternal and ever-stable Lord and Master dwells within each and every heart, and is always with us. ||2||

7 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਧਰਣੀਧਰ ਈਸ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥

dhharaneedhhar ees narasingh naaraaein ||

The Support of the Earth, the man-lion, the Supreme Lord God.

8 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਦਾੜਾ ਅਗ੍ਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮਿ ਧਰਾਇਣ ॥

dhaarraa agrae prithham dhharaaein ||

The Protector who tears apart demons with His teeth, the Upholder of the earth.

8 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਬਾਵਨ ਰੂਪੁ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸੇਤੀ ਹੈ ਚੰਗਾ ॥੩॥

baavan roop keeaa thudhh karathae sabh hee saethee hai changaa ||3||

O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3||

9 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥

sree raamachandh jis roop n raekhiaa ||

You are the Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature.

9 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਬਨਵਾਲੀ ਚਕ੍ਰਪਾਣਿ ਦਰਸਿ ਅਨੂਪਿਆ ॥

banavaalee chakrapaan dharas anoopiaa ||

Adorned with flowers, holding the chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful.

10 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸਹਸ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਹਸਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਭ ਹੈ ਮੰਗਾ ॥੪॥

sehas naethr moorath hai sehasaa eik dhaathaa sabh hai mangaa ||4||

You have thousands of eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of You. ||4||

10 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਅਨਾਥਹ ਨਾਥੇ ॥

bhagath vashhal anaathheh naathhae ||

You are the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless.

11 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਗੋਪੀ ਨਾਥੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸਾਥੇ ॥

gopee naathh sagal hai saathhae ||

The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all.

11 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦਾਤੇ ਬਰਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਕਉ ਗੁਣ ਅੰਗਾ ॥੫॥

baasudhaev niranjan dhaathae baran n saako gun angaa ||5||

O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5||

11 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਮੁਕੰਦ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਲਖਮੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥

mukandh manohar lakhamee naaraaein ||

Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God.

12 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਲਜਾ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਉਧਾਰਣ ॥

dhropathee lajaa nivaar oudhhaaran ||

Savior of Dropadi's honor.

12 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਕਮਲਾਕੰਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਕੰਤੂਹਲ ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦੀ ਨਿਹਸੰਗਾ ॥੬॥

kamalaakanth karehi kanthoohal anadh binodhee nihasangaa ||6||

Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play, unattached. ||6||

12 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਅਮੋਘ ਦਰਸਨ ਆਜੂਨੀ ਸੰਭਉ ॥

amogh dharasan aajoonee sanbho ||

The Blessed Vision of His Darshan is fruitful and rewarding; He is not born, He is self-existent.

13 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕਦੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਖਉ ॥

akaal moorath jis kadhae naahee kho ||

His form is undying; it is never destroyed.

13 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਲਗਾ ॥੭॥

abinaasee abigath agochar sabh kishh thujh hee hai lagaa ||7||

O imperishable, eternal, unfathomable Lord, everything is attached to You. ||7||

14 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥

sreerang baikunth kae vaasee ||

The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven.

14 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਮਛੁ ਕਛੁ ਕੂਰਮੁ ਆਗਿਆ ਅਉਤਰਾਸੀ ॥

mashh kashh kooram aagiaa aoutharaasee ||

By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise.

15 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਕੇਸਵ ਚਲਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜਹਿ ਸੋ ਹੋਇਗਾ ॥੮॥

kaesav chalath karehi niraalae keethaa lorrehi so hoeigaa ||8||

The Lord of beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever He wishes, comes to pass. ||8||

15 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

niraahaaree niravair samaaeiaa ||

He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

16 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥

dhhaar khael chathurabhuj kehaaeiaa ||

He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

16 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥

saaval sundhar roop banaavehi baen sunath sabh mohaigaa ||9||

He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

16 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥

banamaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain ||

He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

17 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥

sundhar kunddal mukatt bain ||

His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

17 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥

sankh chakr gadhaa hai dhhaaree mehaa saarathhee sathasangaa ||10||

He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||

17 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥

peeth peethanbar thribhavan dhhanee ||

The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.

18 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥

jagannaathh gopaal mukh bhanee ||

The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.

18 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ਮੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਸਰਬੰਗਾ ॥੧੧॥

saaringadhhar bhagavaan beethulaa mai ganath n aavai sarabangaa ||11||

The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||

18 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਨਿਹਕੰਟਕੁ ਨਿਹਕੇਵਲੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥

nihakanttak nihakaeval keheeai ||

He is said to be free of anguish, and absolutely immaculate.

19 Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev 


ਧਨੰਜੈ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਹੈ ਮਹੀਐ ॥

dhhananjai jal thhal hai meheeai ||

The Lord of prosperity, pervading the water, the land and the sky.

http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?word=kri...ypage&page=1082<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In this hymn we see mentions of:

1) Krishna Avataara
2) Narasimha Avataara
3) Rama Avataara
4) Vaamana Avataara
5) Vishnu

According to clowns like mann these are all references to the "ONE GOD" and not to the "Hindu" Krishna or the "Hindu" Rama.

[Guest]

<b>Thousands gather demanding scrapping of the Ram Setu project </b>

Zee is reporting thousands

but comments under above link states -
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->My friend is right now at the venue and he tells me that the attendance is anywhere between 1 and 3 million (10 and 20 lakh) people. Within the stadium itself 400,000 people are assmebled. Groups of about 1,000 people are being sent in and out of the stadium to let everyone participate. Not sure where the "50,000" figure came from<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->