Bomb Blasts In India - 1

[Guest]

<b>The one billion+ cannon-fodder</b>

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>Tenants rule, owners are absent</span>
15 May 2008, 1245 hrs IST, The Times of India
Tarun Vijay

Dr Do Little issued a strong statement condemning the dastardly act and Mr. Do Nothings shook the media headlines before leaving for their summer vacation. That's how the Jaipur blasts have been dealt with. Like any other blast, like any other calamity inflicted by Osama bin Laden's bravehearts who choose their targets in the thick of night or from among the innocent populace going to temples or markets. This is the level of courage they show in the name of their faith.

The basic malady however remains unattended. Surrounded by failed states and finding it compelling to be soft on terror-shelters in return for votes, a bleeding India tries to see some hope in Gurgaon-Bangalore (IT, call centre) progress barometers which clouds the basic point – is the state willing to take on terrorism full steam.

The half-hearted, fifty-fifty, salt and sweet policy to deal with terror gives us more Afzals and Jaipurs as attacks on Jammu, Akshardham, Varanasi and Parliament continue. A wet paper state is worse than being a soft one which refuses to see issues of infiltration, jihad , Maoism, and growing separatism as part of one big assault against the Indian state and her geographical entity, mind and spirit.

Nations are run by owners, not tenants. The maliks are those who face storms and sacrifice their lives for 'their' motherland without ever dreaming of a return gift. The children of Mother India, the real ones, consider themselves to be infused with the power and sense of belonging to every inch of our holy land, regard the land as a goddess personified, a living entity and not just a conglomeration of rivers, jungles, peoples and buildings. Then the land, India runs in our veins – we live her, adore her, devote ourselves for her service, the chant Vande Mataram is no longer a meaningless word but creates an aura of patriotism around our actions and thoughts. Every bit of her history and culture and people is reflected in the behaviour and actions of Mother India's children. Like an owner. Then the people are not just voters, they are your own kith and kin and any one anywhere who attacks them or hurts them automatically becomes your sworn enemy too. One doesn't have to ask 'whom do you belong to' either of the security personnel who sacrificed their lives to save Parliament or of some of the unworthy insiders or the Afzals and their co-conspirators. The choice would be obvious.

But that's expected of owners.

Today we have just tenants who use the motherland as a piece of real estate for their personal ends. Tenants consider themselves as beneficiaries. If the rotten system helps them stay longer, they are not bothered to change it. They don't fight the mischievous neighbour trespassing or breaking a boundary wall. At the most a tenant would report it to the owner – look this is happening to your land – take care if you wish to do so. Only owners would have a commitment and strength to safeguard it, change and improve the system and take hard, unpopular decisions. Tenants can have "statement governance" that smiles when slapped and laughs when hit hard for an award or appreciation from New York, or London. Awards for peace and tolerance.

The warriors of 1857 were owners. The revolutionaries and freedom fighters, the Kargil victors and martyrs were too, the inheritors and the children of Mother India.

How can they, who loot national wealth to keep it in foreign banks, shut their eyes to territorial erosion and constitutional corrosion while continuing with election campaigning for the next round of 'money harvesting', call themselves children of Mother India and hence legitimate owners of this land? Anyone, any faith or caste or creed or belief or an atheist can be an inheritor of this blessed ownership if he does something in his life for the good of society without eyeing a free bungalow in Lutyen's Delhi. But not those for whom serving the nation is a rude synonym for serving their own interests.

Scrapping POTA, silence on infiltration, half-hearted responses to continuing terrorism, committees to influence media and the judiciary to free the lecturer involved in the Parliament attack, a colonial attitude on civilisational matters, hate for Sanskrit and anything that relates with the quintessential characteristics of the land called India only indicates an alienated mindset controlling the polity.

Hence M F Husain must be honoured for painting nudes of goddesses but Danish cartoons should be banned and condemned. Reservations for non-Hindus must be announced from rooftops and Hindu icons can be called mythical, unproven, mere stories and fit for demolition while Hindu refuges are condemned to oblivion and de-listed from security conclaves. Can you believe that the largest Hindu organisations in the world like the RSS or their ideological brothers in Vishwa Hindu Parishad have never been officially invited to the President's banquets and Republic Day celebrations at homes and dinners? But those who have a history of working against India's soul and territorial integrity have always been on the list of invitees since Viceregal times. This Siberian-Gulag mindset of the rulers smacks of an alienated sense of perverted history and a vengeful attitude. Not an Indian lineage surely.

Still we say, we are a democracy and we are progressing well.

If wealth and the infrastructure were the only criteria for a nation's growth and happiness index, why did we drive the British out? They were ruling through Indians, creating ICS-es and Raibahadurs and Sergeants and head clerks from our midst. They were benefiting Indians too while depositing their share of loot loyally in British coffers, including our books, ancient manuscripts and the Kohinoor. What was wrong in that if the present loot and Swiss accounts of politicians coupled with tolerance for terrorists is accepted for the sake of secularism?

Patriotic jawans would like to wipe out the scourge of terrorism. They are denied permission. Even if government policies result in frustration and incidents of suicide among the forces come to the fore, the Supreme Court would like the terrorist, who waged war on India, to be hanged till death. But governors, the tenants, would like him to be pardoned. A doctor who saved hundreds of lives was shown the door by a legislation exclusively targeting him introduced by those who considered yielding to a rogue ally more important than saving the honour of a great citizen. When the Supreme Court tears off a bad law, the minister and Prime Minister stare blankly as if nothing has happened.

It shows a disconnect between the soul of the nation and her body. The muscles remain paralysed.

A failure of nerves, making muscles numbed.

In medical terms it is known as myasthenia gravis (MG), an auto-immune disease that affects the transmission of signals from nerves to muscles, described thus: "The symptoms are troubling, yet subtle. You might notice, for example, occasional double vision, drooping eyelids, or the occasional difficulty to chew or swallow food. You may become hoarse or talk through your nose. It may be hard to smile, and people may tell you that you look depressed, even though you feel fine."

The same way the signals from the nerve centre of the state and power to the muscles of the armed forces is missing. See the latest annual report of the Ministry of Home Affairs. It is silent on how many terrorists and their accomplices have been convicted or the number of illegal Bangladeshi infiltrators deported. It shows that terrorism and murders outnumber such incidents in Jammu and Kashmir. Where is the reaction to this?

It is time to throw off the shackles of a colonial mindset and face the cowards squarely.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Shambhu]

The rediff article above is a good one, except where the author says the terrorists make no distinction between mandir and masjid.

Offstumped has an article on the jaipur blasts. The first comment below the article is about how blasts at masjids occur with 1-2 deaths, those at mandirs kill many many more.
The commenter says these masjid blasts must be the work of the psec brigade, just to keep the Hindu thinking along the lines of "terrorist attacks both mandir and masjid".

But the commenter says that he rules out RSS in the masjid attacks because if "RSS could easily have killed more if it wanted to" or something(!). Guy has to understand that RSS does not indulge in blowing things up. He seems to be clueless on Hindutva, but what to do? At least he is on the right track re psec brigade...

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Centre tries to shift blame </b>
Pioneer News Service | New Delhi
On backfoot, Cong looks for way out
As the 'prescient' Central agencies and 'all-knowing' Home Ministry wave the time-worn HuJI-SIMI placard and claim to provide prior intelligence inputs to State Governments about the designs of terror outfits, the country has been presented with a murky spectacle of blame game over Tuesday's serial blasts in Jaipur. 

Reeling under fierce attack from the BJP for scrapping the anti-terror law, POTA, and blocking moves by Gujarat and Rajasthan to introduce their State-specific Acts to crack down on jihadis and anti-nationals, the Congress has virtually washed its hands of the Centre's role in tackling the issue of national security and blamed the State Governments for not acting on the 'specific' intelligence inputs about impending terror attacks.

<b>The Congress leadership has reason to be worried about the political implications of the Jaipur blasts as they have come in the midst of electioneering for the Karnataka Assembly poll</b>. With Karnataka witnessing an unprecedented rise in terror incidents during the UPA regime, the Congress has been forced to shift the blame on the BJP for the blasts.
........<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Pandyan]

<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+May 15 2008, 12:27 PM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ May 15 2008, 12:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guy has to understand that RSS does not indulge in blowing things up. He seems to be clueless on Hindutva, but what to do? At least he is on the right track re psec brigade...
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, perhaps if RSS grew a pair and actually did something to that measure, then maybe we won't be having terrorist attacks like these.

[Shambhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+May 16 2008, 03:59 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ May 16 2008, 03:59 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+May 15 2008, 12:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shambhu @ May 15 2008, 12:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guy has to understand that RSS does not indulge in blowing things up. He seems to be clueless on Hindutva, but what to do? At least he is on the right track re psec brigade...
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, perhaps if RSS grew a pair and actually did something to that measure, then maybe we won't be having terrorist attacks like these.
[right][snapback]81665[/snapback][/right]
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If the RSS/BD decided to go violent, UPA would go get them. The solution for the day is to raise the volume on what Islam really preaches. If the RSS goes round with copies of the Koran and Hadith and shouts "read these and find out the root of islamic violence"..that would be great. Govt would lock up RSS activists, but psecs will have a much harder time trying to convince the people that RSS is bad. And Some people will actually read the hatred and understand what true islam is. When such an "enlightenment" is started, it will only grow..

This kind of demonstration by the RSS will take more b@lls than the anonymous
bombing of masjids, and will be far, far more effective (thought slow). Bombing may have some short-term effects but we are ony playing into the hands of UPA types....

[Bharatvarsh]

The problem is RSS wont even do that (because they fear for their life), but whats worse is when some of them organize crap like sarva pantha samadar manch which just confuses the already confused Hindus, if u r not going to criticize islam then at least don't put it on an equal footing with Dharma or praise it.

Anyway this is getting offtopic, I was reading that Guj and Rajasthan want to pass their own state level version of POTA, any progress on that front?

[Guest]

After Budhism and Jainism ideology merged into Hindus ethos, Hindus are now coward bunch.

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+May 16 2008, 07:15 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ May 16 2008, 07:15 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->some of them organize crap like sarva pantha samadar manch
[right][snapback]81669[/snapback][/right]
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who organized that? RSS? I am afraid you are mixing RSS with some other groups. Surely one cornerstone of RSS philosophy is ekAtmatA of all bhArata pantha-s. In their daily prayer (ekAtmatA stotra) they invoke all Indic faiths including sanAtan, Vedantic, various reformists, nAstiks - jain/bauddha, sikhs, and traditional atheists. I am aware that they have also created a Rashtriya Muslim Sangha - an organization of nationalist muslims. But the above (sarva dharma stuff) is news to me. Will be willing to learn if you show me where "RSS" organizes sarva pantha samAdara ma~ncha and equates muhammedanism and christianism and hindu faiths.

Afraid of death part - any lessons to be learnt from the failed Hindu Mahasabha of Savarkar? One in my view will be that just few sporadic sprouts of brilliant gallantry dont take you very far. Rather build a larger base even if that of 'afraid to die' fellows. That will take you farther and when time demands will also produce those who are willing to die. (Check out Kannur, and who stands up for Hindus there in Kerala and is willing to die)

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After Budhism and Jainism ideology merged into Hindus ethos, Hindus are now coward bunch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But even after bauddha-jaina had influenced/merged into hindu ethos, did not Hindus still produce the likes of Rana Pratap, Shivaji, Govind Singh, Chhatrasaal, down to colonial period nationalist revolutionaries?

The present day situation is nothing to do with "buddhism" and "jainism" merging into Hindu ethos - but Hindu not realizing the truth that they are still bound. And not realizing that what binds them is this less than visible bondage, that they are still not independant, and that they are being manipulated by the enemy by conrolling how Hindus think - by misleading them into blindness and delusion.

This process of de-kshatriyization, began ignorantly by Gandhi, and is carried forward cunningly by neo-Gandhists. Gandhi was not a follower of jaina or bauddha. Was he? He was a bonafide vaishnava hindu (even if misguided and confused).

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Will be willing to learn if you show me where "RSS" organizes sarva pantha samAdara ma~ncha and equates muhammedanism and christianism and hindu faiths.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said some of them meaning people in RSS, here is something about that:

http://voiceofdharma.com/books/tfst/

Note that a letter was written then to the current sarsangchalak of RSS about this:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Letter written by Dr. Godbole to Shri K. S. Sudarshan


You might recall that I had recently put forth before you, my views on �Hindu organisations and the Muslim problem� at the national meet of Prajna Bharati at Pune. Due to lack of time, I could not touch upon a very disturbing development viz. the formation of �Sarva Panth Samãdar Manch� by the Sangh. I am placing my views on the same for your kind consideration.


As I had outlined, the Muslim problem is essentially a problem of Islam and its theology - the Quran, Hadis, Sunnah all cultivate an exclusivist, separatist, imperialist political mind-set of its adherents, In this respect, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Nazism, Fascism are all similar, It is only when followers of these ideologies outgrow/renounce these ideas that lasting peace is possible. There are encouraging signs that the foundations of Islam are showing cracks - many Muslims have begun to question the basic premises of Islam. Like Marxism, Islam as an ideology is bound to become a museum-piece. It is a pity that instead of encouraging the downfall of exclusivist ideologies, Hindu organisations, wittingly or otherwise, are giving props to them e.g. Sarva Panth Samadar Manch. The following issues arise in this context:

1. Does �Sarva Panth� include only �panths� arising from Bharatiya darshan and non-Biblical non-Bharatiya spiritual practices?  If so, I welcome such a Manch. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case.


2. If it includes Islam and Christianity (which seems to be the case), why should it not include Marxism, Nazism and Fascism?


3. If the Manch is aimed at Muslims and their assimilation, I find the whole exercise naive and futile. �Sarva Panth Samadar� goes against the very tenets of Islam. Instead of repeating parrot-like that all religions are alike, why don�t Hindu leaders bother to open the Quran and read it for themselves? It is a disservice to Muslims also to be told that Islam is an ideology worthy of equal respect. That a large section of humanity is in the thrall of such dangerous ideologies should be a matter of concern to us. PARADOXICALLY, MUSLIMS SHOULD BE VIEWED NOT AS OPPRESSORS BUT AS THE GREATEST VICTIMS OF ISLAM. THEY SHOULD BE WEANED FROM ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY.


4. If the Manch is aimed at Hindus, then Hindus anyway don�t need your preaching of �Sarva Panth Samãdar� - in fact they already have had too much of it. WHAT HINDUS NEED TODAY IS NOT SARVA PANTH SAMÃDAR BUT SARVA PANTH CHIKITSÃ. It is only then that they will see through and beware of political ideologies masquerading as religions. Outfits like the Manch are by definition useless in this respect because they start with the assumption that all religions are worthy of equal respect.


5. The concept of �Sarva Panth Samãdar� is even more dangerous than the concept of �Sarva Dharma Samabhãv� mouthed by secularists. With the latter you are at least allowed equidistance from all religions. With the former, you actually ask me to show equal respect to Sanatana Dharma and Islam.2 This is not acceptable to me. Instead of indulging in verbal jugglery (Gandhian socialism, pseudo v/s true secularism, sarva panth samadar etc.). Hindu leaders should shed their intellectual inferiority complex and present a true Hindu world-view.




The question is - are Hindu leaders going to remain stubbornly ignorant and like Gandhiji�s monkeys refuse to see and hear evil?


I hope you will excuse my frankness. I trust you will understand the anguish felt by a junior swayamsevak like me.


Information about the formation of the Sarva Panth Samãdar Manch could not be included in the brochure because it was conveyed to us by Dr. Godbole after the brochure had been printed and put into circulation.  His letter dated 21 October 1996 carried the following para:

Some information about �Sarva Panth Samadar Manch - Founded on 16 April 1994 at Reshmibaug, Nagpur before the samadhi of Dr. Hedgewar during a meeting of state and national level functionaries of Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh. The inaugural meeting of the SPSM was inaugurated by (who else?) Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. The all-India President is Prof. Jal Gimi, ex-VC, Nagpur University. The vice-Presidents are Shri Sukhnandan Singh, Shri Akhtar Hussain and Shri Gopi Masih. Offices and office-bearers of the Manch were formed all over India on 23 July 1994 (founding day of the BMS). The Manch observes 25 March as �National Integration day� as it is death anniversary of Ganesh Shankar Vidyarthi.

This letter from Dr. Godbole was received by us on 1 November 1996. On the same day we faxed the following message to A. Ghosh of Houston (Texas, U.S.A.):

Sarva Panth Samadar Manch was formed on 16 April 1996 before the Samadhi of Dr. Hedgewar in Nagpur. It was inaugurated by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, blue-eyed boy of Sangh Parivar and leading light of Tablighi Jamaat, a wide-ranging movement for extinguishing all traces of Hindu culture from the consciousness and behaviour of Hindu converts to Islam. They insist on converts eating beef at a public meeting and marrying within degrees prohibited by Hinduism.

Ghosh had already received a copy of our brochure and written to us a few days earlier that it was being published as a full-page advertisement in the forthcoming Divali issue of the India Post, a weekly published from Los Angeles (California, U.S.A.). We had conveyed to him a brief characterization of the Tabligh movement on the basis of our extensive studies of it over the years. And we were happy to receive by airmail a copy of the India Post dated November 8, 1996 in which the brochure had been reproduced in full on its page A-21 with our fax message as a footnote in bold letters.


We may add here that the Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh (BMS) was launched in 1955 by Dattopant Thengdi who is known, in the words of Dr. Godbole, as �the tallest intellectual of the Sangh Parivar�. His writings over the years go to show that he has not only swallowed heavy doses of Marxism but also developed a soft corner for Islam. The fulsome praise he had lavished on Prophet Muhammad in an article published in a Special Number of the Sangh Parivar�s Hindu weekly, Pãñchajanya, in 1986 had caused considerable stir in Sangh circles. We had received quite a few telephone calls and letters from swayamsevaks asking us to write a rejoinder giving the true facts about the Prophet. But we had better things to do than engage in debate with a wilfully blind and overconfident strategist of the Sangh Parivar. In any case, we knew from our experience that no mouthpiece of the Sangh Parivar would dare publish even a syllable doubting the wisdom of a Sangh stalwart.

http://voiceofdharma.com/books/tfst/intro.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Savarkar's HM failed because of many factors, one is the supression by the dictator scumbag Nehru after Gandhis assasination, another was its purely political character instead of expressing some religiosity for the masses.

As for RSS and "afraid to die", I didn't say it derogatorily, most humans are afraid to put their life on the line and thats natural, i don't fault RSS for that but don't understand why they have to give space in their official publications like the Organiser or Panchajanya to rubbish praising Muhammad or Jesus. The average Hindu is already deeply confused, and when our supposed "swamis" and organizations praise our ideological enemies then it just confuses them even more and u end up with idiots who claim all religions are the same or equal.

Also its dangerous to think that a few isolated cases like Kannur means RSS has the capability to save Hindus, we have to understand that they are primarily a service oriented organization and not a military one, there are so many RSS men murdered daily by commies or xtian or muslim terrorists, by contrast RSS retaliation comes rarely. Communists and the other 2 "religion" have state power and terrorist outfits with ak 47s operating for them, RSS with its lathis is no match for lashkar or hizbul with their bombs and guns, again I am not saying it derogatorily but its an unavoidable fact nonetheless, if anything besides the army or the gov't (both of which seem anti Hindu or unconcerned, the army because its hands are tied by politicians) can retaliate then it will not be something like RSS but something like the LTTE, there is no escaping that fact. The only place Islamists are actually scared to try their antics is in Eelam mainly because of the terror inspired by the LTTE in their minds.

So Hindus better not rely on RSS to save their ass, psecs have made RSS seem like some type of SS to lull Hindus into a false sense of security, unfortunately many Hindus think RSS will save them only to be rudely awakened at the time of the riots.

At least in US u have private gun ownership to protect urself but in Bharat the gov't has given up any pretense of protecting Hindus during riots but it also cleverly doesn't want citizens to bear arms, it either has to protect the citizens or if its incapable of doing so, then it shouldn't stop Hindus from doing what they can to protect themselves, I am sure when rabid Islamic fanatics murdered Hindus in Sholapur for Falwells remarks about Muhammad or countless other such cases, if Hindus had some guns some precious lives would have been saved, the arguement that then Islamist fanatics will acquire guns holds no water because they already have them even though its against the law, when Marad happened Police found long swords in their mosque, basically they have an arsenal of weapons already and it doesn't matter to them if its against the law.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But even after bauddha-jaina had influenced/merged into hindu ethos, did not Hindus still produce the likes of Rana Pratap, Shivaji, Govind Singh, Chhatrasaal, down to colonial period nationalist revolutionaries?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are exception. I just can't believe there is no reaction; either they are waiting to find their own family name in list. Why they are not screaming,<i> "it is enough, we can't take it anymore". We want Moron Singh out, that shameless idiot should be kicked out</i>. When IG died people were on street? Why when common people die there is no outrage?
I am not saying violence but protest. Why no protest all over India? What a coward sleeping billions?

[Bodhi]

Thanks for pointing out the source, I admit of not having known about that samadar mancha stuff. I agree with the assertions made by Dr. Godbole in that letter, and especially with his evaluation on feasibility of an inter-faith cooperation of dharmic panths with that of islamism or christianism or other variants of these. Now, if manch was founded, that surely shows the ignorance of people behind it about ideology of islam and christanism.

So, what happened after that? Is manch still operational? Was the manch supposed to be a long-term platform? Let me try to find out these answers.

My point on kannur was not about 'capability to protect hindus' but about 'willingness to die'. If that willingness did not exist then RSS would have run away from kerala, besides events like kannur have not been an 'isolated case'.

Now, some part of the disappointment felt and expressed at large about RSS is because of incorrect undertanding about and expectations from RSS. It is not a militantic organization which can protect Hindus, nor it claims so. Its only mission is to "organize Hindus", without any specific purpose, and then let organized Hindus do what is best for situation in any specific field. In its view, unlike the monochrome peoples, Hindus are so diverse that they have no platform of meeting regularly and uniting, and therefore a huge gap which gives birth to disunity at the times of need. Also in their view Hindu is not a religion but a civilization, and such a unity can come from focusing on culture.

And yes, they certainly seem to have entertained an inaccurate analysis about the very nature of Islam, and whther it is feasible to be assimilated in any way. But are they learning? Did they change their view-point on this? That is something I dont know.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->don't understand why they have to give space in their official publications like the Organiser or Panchajanya to rubbish praising Muhammad or Jesus.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that article by Thengadi the only case or there are recurring examples of this? Have you seen somethig since that article 22 years back?

Mudy:
Your anger is valid and shared by so many, but what is misplaced is blaming Jainism or Buddhism for this pathetic state of Hindus (cowardice, indifference). You seriousely think that after the comingling with jaina-bauddha ethos, in the entire history of Hindus, valour had just disappeared, and those examples (Shivaji, Rana Pratap etc) were only exceptions?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You seriousely think that after the comingling with jaina-bauddha ethos, in the entire history of Hindus, valour had just disappeared, and those examples (Shivaji, Rana Pratap etc) were only exceptions?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before these religion mix up, Brahmins, teacher, Priest used to provide Arms and strategic training. Shatriya were ruler and they were also well trained, rest of society was trained as foot soldiers. After Jainism and Buddhism, these skills left with Shatriya and selected few, not whole society. Brahmin sticked to rituals or teaching, Ahimsa was big slogan and till now same story. Over one billions are just waiting someone else will rescue them.
Whole society should be trained in Arms and self protection, society needs aggression, not for ration or water line but fighting Islamist who just live next door.

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is that article by Thengadi the only case or there are recurring examples of this? Have you seen somethig since that article 22 years back?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No since the organizer got online they seem to mostly avoid mentioning Muhammad, but I have seen quite a few wooly headed RSS people praising Muhammad on their own, this is like IKSCON and their followers who can't seem to get rid of this myth of Jesus being some avatara or Muhammad civilizing the Arabs.

You have to check the Panchajanya though to confirm because I don't get it.

From what I heard many of the cadre are like Dr. Godbole, it is the top brass who seem to think it can fool Muslims into becoming patriots by praising Muhammad or Islam, and this is supposed to have started with Guru Govalkar himself, I had read in many writings of Goel that he once heard him declare "Islam and Muhammad were great, its practice has been perverted by the Muslims", this is the very opposite of the truth.

Speaking of being armed, medieval Hindu society was mostly armed, everyone from the illiterate peasent to the highest Raja carried arms, many had matchlocks and bows. It was only when the British gained power that these were confiscated and Hindu society became what it is today, many families still have old swords with them in their homes, these weapons maybe primitive now but they were good in their day.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Medieval Indian society, both urban and agrarian, was to some extent an armed society. In cities and towns the elite carried swords like walking sticks. In villages few men were without at least a spear or bow and arrows, and they were skilled in the use of these arms. In 1632, Peter Mundy actually saw in the present day Kanpur district, �labourers with their guns, swords and bucklers lying by them while they ploughed the ground�.70 Similarly, Manucci described how in Akbar�s days the villagers of the Mathura region defended themselves against Mughal revenue-collecting officers: �The women stood behind their husbands with spears and arrows, when the husband had shot off his matchlock, his wife handed him the lance, while she reloaded the matchlock.�71 The countryside was studded with little forts, some surrounded by nothing more than mud walls, but which nevertheless provided centres of the general tradition of rebellion and agrarian unrest. Armed peasants provided contingents to Baheliyas, Bhadauriyas, Bachgotis, Mandahars and Tomars in the earlier period, to Jats, Marathas and Sikhs in the later.

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/tlmr/ch7.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Husky]

Bharatavarsha's post above is a must read.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Speaking of being armed<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You beat me to it! (I'll leave the para I have written somewhere below as is though.) I was going to link to Hinduwisdom.info where I'd read how the christoBritish made Hindus defenseless.

Thanks for that quoteblock from VoiceOfDharma, that is just deeply cool. I'd never read that before.


1. RSS is a volunteer organisation. They're Indians' best bet in cases of tsunami and natural disasters. Unlike the racist Amerikkkan government that ignored the victims of the Katrina hurricane and made a show of incapacity, RSS helped lots of Indian victims of the massive Tsunami which struck the southeastern Asian region some years back.
Like a typical Hindu organisation, RSS helped victims without regard to their religion and did not ask for nor expect people to convert to Hinduism. (The christian terrorist agencies were documented in the media for refusing aid when victims did not agree to convert.)

2. Sandhya Jain and her sister Meenakshi Jain are both Jains. I would say they show remarkable efficacy, integrity and bravery (some of the many Kshatriya qualities) in combating christoislamicommunism and have achieved more with the pen than many would by randomly swinging some big weapon around. Buddhists in E Asia at least have never been incompetent, but have stressed self-defense. It is sad that when many Kshatriyas in India took up Buddhism long ago they decided (unlike their E Asian counterparts) that Ahimsa was the only right thing, in <i>all circumstances without exception</i>. They ended up paying the price for their misconception, since the islamics murdered most Indian Buddhists, while those that survived have long since fled to Tibet, Nepal and Sri Lanka.
And as far as Sri Lanka today is concerned, the Buddhists there are certainly not pacifist by any stretch of the imagination.

3. LTTE is ultra-violent because it is driven by christianism's thirst for others' blood; its leaders are christian. LTTE dupes Hindus into thinking it represents them. Why is it that Hindus in Sri Lanka get converted in larger numbers to christianism? Because christianism only gains converts in stressful situations, when people are desperate enough to believe christoterrorism's dubious promises of
- peace or at least protection (during war situations like in Sri Lanka, in Nigeria and Uganda; 80s Nagaland; and of course as they intend to do in Nepal in the future) and
- aid (during natural disasters like the Tsunami, and what they would like to do in Burma now).
The biggest and loudest supporters of the LTTE in SL are actually christians and not Hindus. SL Hindus are afraid of the Sinhalese government but they're also very afraid of the LTTE which forces Hindu children into the christoterrorist army where they end up dying for what are actually christoterrorist purposes. That is also why christians in India's TN support the LTTE, even while they do everything to sabotage Hinduism in TN. It's precisely because they know that LTTE's functioning in Sri Lanka is not really for Hindus' sake at all.
But if muslims in SL are scared of LTTE, then that's an accidental advantage. Some muslims in ME were afraid the European christian crusaders too. Christoislamics were always equally matched in their ferocity.
And while all the terrorism is going on, christianism is stealing ground in both Hindu and Buddhist areas in Sri Lanka, as foreign missionaries and their converts go about building their unwanted churches everywhere and preaching how christianism will bring them peace. After stoking the fires of war to the greatest extremes, it pretends it's all innocent.


4. India's problem is that we've lost most of our Kshatriyas to the murderous islamic invasions. Then there was christoBritish terrorism which banned all Hindu self defense (general bans on Hindu populace being armed, and of course the Kalaripayattu ban which targetted the martial Nairs). Then there's the modern-day psecularisation of our army who will never even consider acting on Hindu behalf but will defend secularism first and foremost; while many christos and islamics amongst them will consider working for their own ideology's purposes.
Another part of the problem is that real Brahmanas who can at least teach Hindus about various facets of Hinduism that they might not already know (such as Samskritam) or could have mounted debates against christoislamicommunistic lies, are dwindling thanks to
- the old age of real Brahmanas (many have passed away or are coming close to that age, while the next not-quite-so-old generation is comparatively less clued in);
- the stupidity and downright villainy of a significant number of their physical offspring. They're not Brahmanas of course.
The stupidity stems from ignorance. But while stupidity can be laughed at, the villainy is unforgiveable: many Bengali and Kerala communistics are of the "brahmin" community. A number of these communitwits are the lying self-proclaimed 'historians'. And of course there's the likes of Mani-"I will use cheap psecular lies to sell a terrorist movie"-Ratnam and his even more loser kid with its ideals of an (oxy)moronic communist "democratic dictatorship". These are examples of the kind of terrorist mutants produced by brahmin communities.
There are bad pseculars and christoislamicommunistics with ancestors from all Hindu communities. For instance, there is that loony crypto christian nutcase politician that has the gall to cling to the Reddy surname (until I heard about the existence of YSR, I was of the opinion that the name Reddy was a sure sign of a Hindu nationalist), so it's not like any Hindu community is so perfect that an occasional shameful monstrosity can't accidentally be birthed by it. Still, in my view, when Brahmanas' distant progeny go bad, they go unforgiveably bad. Worse than Jai Chands - who can only cause the deaths of so many people in their lifetimes and immediately thereafter - are those (communist tyrants and the eminent hysterians from the Red ranks) that, with their false rewrites of history, will make the Lie That Damns live on to kill the next generations. Apparently communism appeals with its cheap thrills - that is, with its impossible promises of quick fixes.
But of course, when a Hindu converts to christianity, islam or communism, the result is that they're not Hindu: they've converted to terrorism and can no longer claim to be Hindu. So I suppose there's really no need for Hindus to be ashamed of people who aren't their kind, but are rather specifically anti-Hindu instead.


What I said in Post #37: I don't mean the sarcastic bits of that post now. I was very angry and hence the pessimism. Pessimism does no good and it's not even of predictive value. Realism is the only way of viewing things and that's what will be useful to us.

5. I think Hindu society can save itself when it stands up as Hindu. Every Hindu should cultivate in himself all the Kshatriya qualities of bravery, nobility and learn some basic self-defense. Stick up for your fellow-Hindus. And Brahmana qualities like becoming intimately acquainted with at least some parts of the Hindu scriptures that appeal to you. Because what you know will help you defend your Hindu Dharma. And when you find that you have learnt well and can teach others, you must share. For instance, when you learn Samskritam, teach your siblings and friends, and tell them to pass it on. This is another part of pushing Hindu revival: being a teacher in the chain. Study hard and work to become wealthy so that you can then have enough to save for you and your family's future as well as for helping Hindus/Dharmics in need and helping Hindu/Dharmic causes. And finally, work hard to defend Hindu Dharma, and with your efforts add your name to the list of greats that Hindu Dharma gave rise to. More great people means more pride amongst Dharmics.

How clever of me to speak in the second rather than first person. Think I must know myself so thoroughly that even subconsciously I realised I would not exert myself to do most of what I listed above.
But I do believe in Hindus. I believe that in spite of having lost a lot of Kshatriyas, Brahmanas and knowledgeable Hindus of all professions, that Hindus in our times will come together - regardless of the lies against our Dharma and our people - and be one overall-community, united and like a wall that terrorism and its lies can't ever breach again. (I remember enough instances that led me to this conclusion during my last visit to Chennai, I should recall them more often.)

That is not to say I don't like the existence of subcommunities, were these to last - because they have glorious histories, and diversity is always an advantage as opposed to narrow-minded "melting-pot" monotony - but I believe in Hindus as <i>Hindus</i>. That our real identity is only that. (Also I am greedy and have a nasty habit of claiming all Hindus' accomplishments as being somehow my own.... For instance, when I think of the Hindu Shahiyas of Afghanistan who took on the islami attackers, I am as proud if they were my direct ancestors. And to all intents and purposes, they are - for the reason of my being Hindu, just as they were. Or when I read some great point made by another Hindu, I regard it with the same sense of ownership as if it were made by a direct sibling or me even.
I am always fully certain I have this right; it is utterly futile to try and convince me otherwise. But in this I'm not greedy at the expense of others: I believe all other Hindus have the same right to the same claim. That all Hindu accomplishments belong to <i>all</i> Hindus. (It goes without saying that I mean real Hindus: that is, the non-psecular/non-traitor kind.) And if ever I did anything clever - stop giggling and for the sake of argument let us just suppose I were to - then it is something that I mean to share with all Hindus/Dharmics. Of course I will brag about how I did it - can't help that now, can I - but it would be intended for my Dharma, for all my people.
See how that little turn toward wanting to share with others is an effect produced by Hindu Dharma, in that sharing is how I got to partake in all the goodness in the first place <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )

[Bharatvarsh]

I do not want to disrupt this thread any further, so I will post some questions in some other thread about gun laws in Bharat, if anyone is aware of the laws, you can enlighten me there.

[Guest]

<b>Jaipur blast suspects spoke Bengali, bought cycles without bargaining </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The men suspected to be behind Tuesday's serial blasts that killed at least 61 people and injured 216 had made their most significant purchases from seven bicycle shops in the walled city area without attempting to bargain and spoke Bengali, police sources said.

Ten bicycles were used for the serial bombings - nine were brand new and the last one, which has left security officials in a tizzy, was a used one.

"All cycles were purchased a day before and on the blast day. They went to each shop twice in two days. On the first day they went to check the various cycle models and next day the suspects went to the same shops to purchase the cycles," a police official told IANS on condition of anonymity.

The men were dressed in blue jeans and white shirts, the shopkeepers had told the police.

"The men did not see any of the owners and only dealt with their employees. They paid whatever money was asked for the bicycles without bargaining and hesitation and went away immediately.

"The employees have told us that they did not look like Rajasthanis and spoke in broken Hindi. In fact they were speaking Bengali, which has again given rise to speculation that the militants were from a Bangladeshi outfit," the official added
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>RSS volunteers chased away ahead of Sonia's vi</b>sit

JAIPUR: Resident doctors at Sawai Madho Singh (SMS) Hospital here, where the injured of the Tuesday's blasts are recuperating, are relieved for they have found hundreds of volunteers working round-the-clock at the hospital.

Most of them are members of Rashtriya Swamsevak Sangh (RSS) who have manned different wards of the SMS hospital, virtually replacing the 4th grade employees.

But all this did not prevent RSS volunteers to find themselves at the receiving end of the stick of cops. Unmindful of the fact that the state has a BJP government, security personnel forcibly chased away RSS volunteers to facilitate UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi's meeting with the blast victims.

<b>The RSS cadres are working in an eight-hourly shift since Tuesday night, much to the discomfort of some political outfits that haven't hesitated in expressing their desire to disband Sangh men from the hospital premises</b>.

<b>"The RSS has deployed almost 200 cadres only at the SMS hospital," says Ramesh Gupta, an insurance consultant and a Sangh worker who had been at the hospital since Tuesday night. The outfit's planning is meticulous, and the precision of executing it could be envy of many a military strategist</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<b>Expel all Bangladeshis in a month: Raje govt</b>

Hmmm... All the seculars will come out of woodwork... <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->