Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 01:14 AM

I have a suspicion, can someone confirm

Indian xtians who migrate to the west, are actually treated as ****s and made unwelcome in white churches ?

09-07-2008, 05:29 AM

I'm not sure about above.

I've infact heard reports that Indian Priests are filling the clergy shortage in England and Indian christians are infact keeping the church of england alive by compensating for declining numbers of white christians.

~~Pandyan~~ · 09-07-2008, 06:19 AM

QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Sep 6 2008, 03:44 PM)I have a suspicion, can someone confirm

Indian xtians who migrate to the west, are actually treated as niggers and made unwelcome in white churches ?
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Just like koreans, vietnamese, and filipinos, have their own churches, Indian xtians probably also do. I know kerala xtians that came here through catholic charities, they have their own services.

Indian xtians think their skin color will also transform along with religion and culture.

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 07:27 AM

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1983...983-10-05.shtml

October 1983
Stone Cross Unearthed in India Ignites Christian-Hindu Dispute

Thousands of Kerala Hindus Cry Historical Chicanery and March to Protest Encroachment on Sacred Pilgrimage Site

Igniting a furious Hindu/Christian controversy in the state of Kerala, South India, on March 24th, Rev. Mathew Anthiyakulam proclaimed that two members of his parish had unearthed a stone cross established by Jesus' apostle Saint Thomas in 57 A.D., 150 km. from Trivandram near the Mahadeva temple at Nilakkal, in what is one of the most sacred of all Hindu pilgrimage areas - the 18-hilled garden of Lord Ayyappan. While the priest brazenly staked his claim, proposing to build a Christian church on the site, Hindus, shocked at his audacity, mounted a powerful protest that lasted for six months and finally resulted in the relocation of the proposed church. The intervening months of conflict left dozens injured physically, and scarred feelings on both sides.

The same day of the announcement, a makeshift thatched bamboo church was quickly constructed. Biblical hymns and worship celebrated the event. There were many doubting Thomases who did not believe the Thomas-established-this-cross allegation, but looked upon the whole thing as a sham calculated to bring Christianity into more prominence in the Hindu area. No wonder they doubted. In recent years dozens of Hindu temples and shrines have suffered similar fates. In Sri Lanka, Catholics are trying to build a cathedral within a stone's throw of the large and ancient Tiruketeswaram Sivan temple on the Mannar coast, and Buddhists "discover" viharas with suspicious regularity - all in Hindu areas.

On May 19, less than a month after the temporary church went up, the Kerala government approved a grant for one hectare of land at the site, which is 70 miles from the nearest town and part of a government forest reserve. Working through that evening and into the night, workers replaced the bamboo shed with a more permanent structure made of steel and asbestos, complete with a 5-foot granite cross. Rev. Dr. Antony Nirappel led the consecration rites the next morning, and daily prayers were started (India Today, June 15).

Shocked by the government decision, and angered at the Christian encroachment on sacred Hindu land, Hindu leaders denounced the cross-finding as a ruse. Far from being 2,000 years old, the cross was, they asserted, from all appearances brand new. They added that there is no Christian population within 10 km. of Nilakkal and hence no need for a church, especially 325 meters from the Ranni Saleehwara Mahadeva Temple enroute to Sabaramalai. Some even questioned the existence of the cross, The San Francisco Examiner reported, for though church leaders said the cross "was found, erected and photographed at the site," four days later, the church caretaker told the police it had been stolen.

Nearly 2,000 Hindus gathered in protest under the banner "Nilikkal Action Council," led by orange-robed sannyasins, held a sit-in near the site on June 4. An intense one-hour battle ensued with police trying to break it up. Devotees hurled rocks at police, and police lobbed tear canisters and charged with their clubs to finally drive the demonstrators into the forest, leaving 50 injured and arresting 30, including 9 sannyasins.

On July 16, hundreds of Ayyappa devotees who had set out from 18 centers to symbolize the 18 hills in Lord Ayyappa's sacred flower garden, began a long trek to Nilakkal Temple on the way to the Sabaramalai forest hill shrine, also revered by Saivites who regard Ayyappa as a manifestation of Lord Muruga. With tensions running high, police vehicles escorted the long procession and closely monitored the gathering at the Mahadeva Temple. There the crowd was addressed by Swami Vidyananda Saraswathi of Kasi Mutt and Swami Satyananda Saraswati of Chenkottu Ramadasa Mission. Devotees participated in night-long prayer and other ceremonies.

The Examiner reported that on this day "Hindu temples throughout Kerala flew black pennants to protest the little church. Thousands of Hindus, wearing black cloths over their mouths and hands, marched in the streets of all major cities and towns in Kerala, condemning the police action and the arrest of the monks. By the end of the day, police said, two Catholic churches had been hit by handmade bombs, the tires of 15 state transport busses had been slashed and 28 protesters had been arrested. The state's home minister, Vayalar Ravi, described the protesters as 'demons' trying to tear apart the state from within..." Others looked upon them as angels of the Hindu cause. Nor was that the end of the story.

Representing the Nilikkal Action Council, Swamis Satyananda Visveshwara Theertha, head of the Pejawar Math in Udupi, and Vidyananda Saraswati (who later denounced, in The Hindu, certain Hindu trouble-makers as his followers) said on July 18 the Council would give up its opposition "if it was proved beyond doubt that the now non-existent church was set up by Saint Thomas when he was believed to have visited Kerala in the middle of the 1st century." But, they declared, as there was no historic proof that Saint Thomas ever visited Kerala, the right to build a church near Mahadeva Temple and within the sacred 18 hills of the Deity of Sabarimala could not be entertained. Swami Vidyananda asserted that the area, by historic tradition and usage, belongs to the Hindus and made a fervent appeal to the Christian community not to take an "obstinate stand" on the issue, but help solve the problem in a peaceful manner.

On July 21 Christian bishops of various denominations held a conference at Vadavathoor and concluded that until communal harmony was firmly cemented, the construction work should not resume. The Catholic Archbishop of Changanacherry, Dr. Antony Padyara, Rev. Dr. Mathew and other churchmen did not confirm whether or not they would shift the site of the church, but a 15-member sub-committee was formed to deal with this and other problems facing the Christian community.

The Hindu reported July 23rd that Swami Vidyananda Saraswathi had welcomed the construction halt by the Bishop Conference. On August 19, the Bishop subcommittee announced it would shift the church to a location 4 km. from the Mahadevan temple. The following day, the Nilikkal Action Council suspended its agitation programs and cancelled an upcoming march on the basis that the church would be shifted by October 2. Meanwhile, a special committee of distinguished religious leaders from the Action Council stands vigilant pending further developments.

In the midst of the controversy, even Christians doubted the wisdom of building the church at Nilikkal, considering the cost in strife and the risk of setting off communal passions on a wide scale in Kerala, India's most densely populated and most literate state. Dr. C.P. Mathew wrote in a letter to The Hindu (June 4): "A piece of granite in the shape of a cross said to have been recovered from the site is going to strike at the very root of communal harmony in the state. If at all it has any significance, it is for the Department of Archeology. Some narrow-minded, selfish Christian fanatics (both priests and laymen) are behind this. The Christian community in general is not interested in this episode. Which is more important for a Christian, a piece of granite or the teachings of Christ?" Another observer wrote, "Saint Thomas and his master Jesus would never have desired to build a Church in the teeth of opposition...We are dishonoring Saint Thomas if we do not respect the sentiments of the Hindu population."

Perhaps, many wondered silently, the Christians themselves would soon rediscover one of Jesus' admonitions: "Do onto others as you would have them do unto you."

Article copyright Himalayan Academy.

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 07:33 AM

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1984...984-04-08.shtml

"Divine Deception" Exposed in Mauritius

Young Tamil Hindu Missionaries Oppose Conversion Tactics Based on Promises of "Miraculous Healing"

"So look out for those tricks, everyone," S.K. Moorghen concluded, up on the stage of the Sri Sockalingum Meenatchee Ammen Koyil of Port-Louis," and never succumb to those low means by which they attempt to convert you!" He had just finished describing some of the deceptive means or "tricks" used by the Christian missionaries of Mauritius in their perennial campaign to confuse, convert and divide the Hindus.

His talk was given on the occasion of a Maha Sivaratri pilgrimage, the pilgrims consisting mostly of young teachers and missionaries of the Saivite Hindu religion, who have been working under the auspices of the Saiva Siddhanta Manram of Mauritius. Their Motto for over a year has been "Combattons la conversion par l'instruction" (Fight conversion through religious education).

As soon as 25-year-old Moorghen learned the teachings of Saivism and recognized their profundity a year ago, he was immediately inspired to share them with others. He formed a team of missionaries who have been going door-to-door to speak of the greatness of Saivite Hinduism and introduce his co-religionists to Saiva Dharma: a Catechism and a Creed, two small booklets which outline all the basic tenets of Saivite Hindusim.

On his rounds he became aware of certain patterns which the Christian missionaries follow, and their effects. The most obvious characteristic, he found, lies in their predilection to sniff out and follow a trail of misery. Wherever there is problem, conflict, disease, sorrow or despair, there they are! Moorghen discovered that wherever he found some misfortune, the Christian missionaries had already preceeded him. This phenomenon had been observed elsewhere in Asia and South Africa by Hindu leaders who have labeled it "vulturism."

A famous political observer and writer in India, Ram Swarup, noted the change in Christian tactics in recent years, "In spreading light, as they see it, they have used all kinds of methods - force, fraud, persuasion, trade, and lately social service." Whereas in the past, the conversion efforts of the Christians bore mostly on financial, educational and political pressure now they are focusing their efforts on humanitiarian service, helping people, as their way of gaining entrance, acceptance, trust, and finally of converting. That has certainly proved to be the case in Mauritius, where Hindu leaders are becoming genuinely concerned with such strategies.

Approaching the weak as easy prey to conversion is used with great effectiveness by the Christian missionaries in Mauritius, but especially so by the most aggressive converting movement of all - the "Salut et Guerison" (Healing and Salvation), a mission of the Assembly of God evangelistic movement founded in America, where it is the largest Pentacostal (Holy Rollers) Church in the country. Since reaching Mauritian soil Salut et Guerison's French missionaries have, as one local Hindu put it, "devastated large sectors of the Hindu population," especially the Tamils, converting entire towns, sowing confusion and breaking up families.

Claiming to Cure: Moorghen and his missionary teammates, Sivaramen and Ananda, became acutely aware of these tactics one day when they entered a Tamil home where the daughter was seriously ill, the parents destitute, and where the Salut et Guerison missionaries just happened to be at the same time. The Christians made their appeal: "Have faith in Jesus, he will deliver and cure her." Moorghen was deeply struck that the would-be convertors were simply taking advantage of the situation, preying upon this family at a very psychological and sensitive moment to attain their ends. These were his fellow Hindus, and he did not like what he saw.

Another tactic of this sect which is currently arousing some reaction in Mauritius is that of going into hospitals, unbidden, to the bedside of very ill and suffering people to preach their message, promising that Jesus will cure them if they will but place their trust in him this very moment. The problem manifests after Hindus leave the hospital cured (by nature and medical science), and begin feeling obliged, perhaps indebted to an alien faith. In the case where the person is not cured, then, of course, from the proselytizer's perspective, nothing is lost.

This particular tactic may disappear soon, for there is already a law in Mauritius that forbids proselytization in hospitals, and the SSM is currently petitioning the government to enforce that law and preserve the privacy and dignity of suffering individuals.

Tales of miraculous cures at the hands of Salut et Guerison healers circulate all over Mauritius and serve to advertize the movement and draw in great numbers the unwary, the sick, the unfortunate, the problem-ridden and the superstitious. People go to the movement for all kinds of reasons - to cure mental anguish and physical disease, to stop drinking or smoking, to solve marital problems. One hears many testimonials in its favor, as well as accusations of faking and deception. One young man in Montagne Longue was drawn close to the movement, hoping for a rapid cure to his illness. After the healers had tried and failed to bring about the miracle, they admitted defeat but asked the man, even so, would he not please declare that he was cured anyway. The sick man, flabbergasted, dropped out.

Deceit Revealed: A case of pure deception surfaced in recent weeks. Moorghen explained he had recently gone to the home of a gentleman who was very ill and, consequently, was being visited daily by these same missionaries with promises of instant healing. "But I am not about to be taken in by it," the man explains, "I know their tricks too well!" He told Moorghen that he used to work as an electrician in a large hall which had been rented out by the Salut et Guerison on the occasion of a large revival meeting. He was working in a little room off to the side of the main hall but from which he could see everything that was going on in the main hall. At one point, a woman in the audience started shrieking and acting quite mad. The Pastor declared that she was being possessed by a devil, "but with the help of Jesus we'll soon drive it out." He had her carried off to the nearby room where this man, the electrician, happened to be working. Nobody noticed that he was there. He was quite shocked to see the woman sit up, perfectly normal, as soon as the door was shut behind her. The Pastor instructed her to wait a while. He would call her out shortly. At that point the Pastor saw the electrician and, obviously quite upset, asked him to leave at once. But the electrician's curiosity was aroused, and he blended in with the audience to see what would happen. Some minutes later, the Pastor told the audience that Jesus had effected another miraculous cure, and presented the now normal woman, who enthusiastically testified to the miracle and to her spiritual "rebirth."

Apparently, Salut et Guerison believes in the validity of the concept of "divine deception," a phrase coined by the Christian evangelical movement of the Rev. Moon (the Unification Church, nicknamed the "Moonies"), to describe their belief that all is fair in love, war and conversion. They are convinced that it is perfectly righteous to deceive, trick or fraud, if the intent is to bring a person to "the Truth." There are quite a number of prosyletizing movements around the world today who subscribe to tactics of divine deception.

A twenty-year-old young lady who is a teacher and missionary of Saivite Hinduism in Souillac, in the extreme south of Mauritius, writes to The New Saivite World: "We have some good news. We have recently organized regular meetings with people in the 45 to 75 year age group. The first time we met, Ramsamy Vencatasamy [a 30-year-old Saivite missionary] gave an ample overview of our religion as introductory class. There followed a question-and-answer session...A gentleman in the audience told us how members of the Mission Salut et Guerison had used base tricks and devices and fooled one of his neighbors. He also explained that some Catholics are writing books in the Tamil language in which they say that Jesus Christ was born a Tamil but that consequently he created his own religion because ours was not any good. He told us also of a television program he had seen over the RFO broadcast system of Reunion island where some [Catholic] priests said that sin and evil don't really exist. We can plainly see how their strategy is undergoing some radical changes, all aimed at absorbing Hinduism unawares. Well, we certainly are not going to let them do it!"

Mauritian Hindus have noticed a new trend among proselytizing Christian movements to print their flyers, pamphlets and books in the Tamil Language. It is an interesting maneuver, for actually very few Mauritians can read Tamil. But the language and the sight of the script evoke responses of reverence and trust which make for easy acceptance for the missionary and his message. Several young Tamils of the Port-Louis area were outraged to find such tracts being distributed in the Mauritius countryside some months ago. Among them, brothers L. and K. Sornum have appealed to the government to check this new stratagem which they qualified as "gross misrepresentation."

One of the most saddening effects of Salut et Guerison, Mauritian Hindus have told The New Saivite World, is the harm done to the family. Rarely will a whole family convert all at once. It generally starts with one member of a family, who, after he is converted, undergoes a potent program of indoctrination, revolving mostly around criticism and condemnation of his former religion. The new attitudes thus created in the convert are directed against other members of the family who are not yet converted. A Tamil lady recently shared her burden with a missionary of the Saiva Siddhanta Manram. She explained that since one of her daughters (one among nine children) had converted to Salut et Guerison, there was no peace at home anymore. The new convert never lost an opportunity to tell the other members of the family they were worshipping the Devil, especially at sensitive moments, when they were going to the temple, for example. She refused to eat any food prepared at home because her mother had blessed it in the traditional Hindu manner, and she now considered it "food of the Devil."

Not long ago, a member of Salut et Guerison, a newly converted Tamil, claimed to have received messages from God that her recently-deceased husband could be brought back to life. Preachers rushed to the graveyard and started to dig up the man's grave. Naturally, the graveyard attendant called the police, who forced them to stop. The preachers tried again several times, petitioned the government and finally succeeded in creating a cause celebre, a lot of free publicity and a new set of tales by which to capture the imagination of the unwary and the superstitious. Reports are that many are now mounting vigils in the graveyard, hoping to see a "dead man walk."

Boomerang: This last incident may turn to Salut et Guerison's disadvantage, if the SSM of Mauritius has its way, for they intend to explain and expose this event and the sly intentions of its instigators to Tamils and Hindus throughout the nation.

Moorghen's talk on that February 26th evening was not an isolated event. It represents a general new awareness among Mauritian Tamils of conversion and conversion tactics. The new generation of Hindu and Tamil leaders are courageous and proud - their boldness and resolve are in sharp contrast to the benign neglect of the past toward threats to their religion and culture. The SSM has just launched its journal, Sivaneri, which squarely faces up to the problem of conversions with a new boldness and resolve. An editorial in its first issue concludes: "We are asking all our Tamil brother and sisters to be on their guard and to stand strong before the lowly tactics of these conversion peddlers. Every time they come to your door, don't even let them in, and simply tell them, 'We too have sacred scriptures, which are far more ancient and profound than yours. Our sages were the first to have cognized a One-and-Supreme God that they named 'Siva.' Today, thousands of Christians in Europe and elsewhere believe in reincarnation, a pillar of our philosophy since time immemorial.' Don't hesitate to show or give them a copy of your Cathechism and Creed to show the greatness of our eternal religion."

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 07:55 AM

Moron-swami

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1986...986-03-04.shtml

March 1986
Ananda Ashram Awakens To Christian Dharma

While RK Mission sought non-Hindu minority status in the East, an unrelated parallel was unfolding in the West. The Ananda Ashram in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California announced in a recent newsletter that it's dropping its association with Hinduism and becoming a universalist community with strong Christian leanings. Accompanying this announcement is the news that its founder and president, Sri (formerly Swami) Kriyananda, on the advice of an Italian Christian mystic, is getting married for the second time.

Ananda Ashram is one of the two organizations in the West who represent the teaching of the great Yogi, Paramahansa Yogananda (18931952), who came to America in 1920 and founded the Self-Realization Fellowship which is active today. Since its inception, the Fellowship has had strong ties to the Christian world. One of its formal "Aims & Ideals" is "to reveal the complete harmony and basic oneness of original Christianity as taught by Jesus Christ and original Yoga as taught by Bhagavan Krishna."

Kriyananda, raised as a Presbyterian, was originally trained by Yogananda and served in the SRF for some years, leaving in 1962 to found his own organization. Commenting on his original aims and his present direction, he states: "I wanted to provide people with a life where their energies could all be directed toward chanting and meditation. But American society today is not disposed to support people in such a calling. I wanted to create a hermitage. But no hermits arrived. What God has helped us to create at Ananda is a new and, in the modern era at least, more universally meaningful kind of monastery-one in which people live normal lives, but yet lives dedicated wholly to God."

He goes on to state, "in recent years [there] has been an acceptance among ourselves of who we really are: not people inspired by the teachings of India to the extent of assuming Indian dress and attitudes, but Americans inspired by India, yes, but trying, as Yogananda did, to spiritualize America, not to Indianize it."

To this end, Ananda has a choir called "Joy Singers" who go around to various Christian Churches, sing devotional Christian songs and preach universalist Christianity.

This interesting development parallels the recent declaration by the Ramakrishna Mission to be non-Hindu. The Gum of Yogananda, Sri Yukteswar, was unquestionably Hindu. His Hindu disciple, Yogananda, followed the route of appeasement in America-teaching his Hindu philosophy and practices to Christians and Jews but not requiring them to change their faith. Now the latest generation in this line has shed its neo-Hindu identity and become nearly indistinguishable from such liberal Christian Churches as the Unitarians.

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 08:01 AM

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1987...987-02-02.shtml

Malaysia Hindus Protest Christian "Sadhu"

Ramesh, L.

On November 8th and 9th, about 1,000 Hindus gathered at the Methodist Church in Brickfields, Kuala Lumpur to protest and confront the Petacostal Christian, "Sadhu Chellapah," who was making his third visit to Malaysia. An active propagator of the Christian faith in Malaysian estate and rural areas, he wears the orange robes (kavi) of Hindu monk and styles himself as a Sadhu (Hindu term for a wandering monk). The "Sadhu" declined a challenge to public debate with members of the Malaysian Hindu Sangam and the Sri Maha Mariyamman Temple over his statements on Hindus scriptures.

In his speeches, video cassettes and cassette tapes, "Sadhu" condemns, ridicules and misinterprets the Vedas, Upanishads and the Tirumurais to suit and explain his Christian faith. For instance, he interprets the mantra "Panchakaya Namaha" as "Lord with five wounds" meaning the crucified Jesus and the Rig Vedic phrase "Ekam Tat Sat" as "the One Lord who descends to earth only once," again implying Jesus.

At a meeting showing a video-tape by him containing his unreasonable interpretations and interpolations of the Hindu scriptures angry Hindus bombarded him with questions and demanded a public apology. Shaken by the raving crowd, some of whom promised him a coffin for his next visit, the "Sadhu" went up on stage and tendered his public apology.

However, three days later prior to his departure back to India, he summoned a press conference and said he made his apology under duress, hoping to avoid unwanted incidents.

Dr. Thomas Thangaraj, a Protestant from India who was in Kuala Lumpur as a delegate for the Second International Saiva Sidhanta Seminar was asked for his views about Sadhu Chellapah. He said "You can interpret Hindu scriptures in such a way to suit Christianity, which is wrong and unfortunate. People are so gullible that they would swallow anything you say, it's part of psychology."

The Chairman of the Maha Mariyamman Temple, Mr. V.L. Kodivel said he will complain to the Prime Minister and the Home Affairs Minister.

Article copyright Himalayan Academy.

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 08:07 AM

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1988...988-04-03.shtml

April 1988
Our Sins Exceed Jimmy Swaggart's

His is not a pretty story, but it is a terribly important one for Hindus to hear. Jimmy Swaggart, America's most vociferous TV moralizer has suddenly become the world's best-known secret sinner. There he was, a wealthy, world-class superpreacher on TV, weeping, confessing and asking forgiveness of his God, his wife and his electronic following. Ironically, the man who had made his millions preaching against lust and pornography, had been caught lusting. Judy Mann, a journalist, noted: "One thing that seems strikingly clear about both Swaggart and Bakker [another Assemblies of God minister who confessed to sexual misconduct] is that both of those Bible-thumping churchmen have serious problems with women and sex. Adultery and promiscuity are right up there alongside communism and Godlessness on their list of deadly sins." In a book published in October Swaggart included "consorting with prostitutes" as one of four definitions of fornication.

Reach*** for analogies, the mind conjured up Sinclair Lewis' "Elmer Gantry." You remember Gantry, the engaging tent preacher and rogue (Burt Lancaster in the movie) who publicly flimflams the faithful to fill his collection plate and privately indulges in pleasures of the flesh. Change the setting from rural canvas big top to urban television pulpit, and Jimmy Swaggart becomes a real-life Elmer Gantry for the '80s. Soap opera it may be; entertainment it is not. At least not for Hindus, for whom this is a serious matter.

Hindus (and Buddhists, Taoists, Hawaiians, animists and a long list of fellow human beings) have long suffered under the righteous moral indictments of our Christian brothers. Their strategies have changed over the centuries from militant to marketing, from inquisition to acquisition - but the message has remained the same: "Come! Accept my Savior. Leave off your evil, non-Christian ways. Be like me and gain Life Eternal." If ever we did, we can no longer hope to be like them.

Jimmy Swaggart is not the first morally flawed man. There are wrongdoers in every culture, in every time. Skilled Hindu libertines make these men look like pikers. But your average sinner, with his feet on the ground, has so short a fall that others tend to either not hear the noise or to exonerate the poor fellow with exculpatory words he hopes his accusers will have the kindness to recall should he ever lapse, "To err is human. Let's forgive and forget."

Jimmy Swaggart was not standing on the earth when he engaged the services of prostitutes. He had climbed atop a dangerously high moral pedestal. Nor was he one to be shy about telling others what hellish horrors await the "faggot," the forger, the filcher, the fabricator, the fetish maker and the fornicator. When he fell, the noise could be heard in all 82 nations where his foreign missions exist. Mr. Swaggart is the leader of one of the world's richest and most aggressive conversion ministries dedicated to "harvesting souls" like you and me.

Hinduism Today ran a page one story called "Divine Deception Exposed in Mauritius" [Spring, 1984, Vol. 6, No 2] which reported on unethical tactics used by the Mauritius Assemblies of God (called Salut et Guerison in French). One case of outright fraud involved a Hindu electrician who inadvertently found himself behind stage during a faith healing crusade and reported seeing a woman, who had screamed and pretended to be possessed on stage, walking and talking in a normal, albeit conspiratorial, way with the Assemblies of God minister behind the scenes. She later went before the audience to claim Jesus had cured her and to tearfully testify to her spiritual rebirth. No wonder Hindu leaders in that country had become deeply concerned with the means of persuasion used to lure young Hindus into the mission, "to sow discord, cause confusion and break up families." Not a few families. Tens of thousands of Hindu families worldwide have been destabilized by this one group.

Consider a personal encounter. On our own Hawaiian island a few years ago the tiny Assembly of God church invited the staff of Hinduism Today to "Come and visit with us. We have a wonderful movie about India which will interest you." We went, five or six of us joining two dozen Christians seated in simple pews. The reverend greeted us cordially. There followed some sermonizing which introduced a 90-minute color movie about the Assembly of God fieldwork in India. Slick, expensive, well-filmed, the movie proceeded to offend everything precious to Hindus. It showed near-naked savages killing chickens in front of a Hindu temple and putting the blood on their foreheads. It cursed Hinduism for abetting world poverty. It portrayed every Indian Hindu with skin disease or crippled offspring and every Indian Christian with unblemished complexion and flawless children with bright almond eyes. It told the audience that this minister was saving India from Satan, that these lost people were needlessly suffering from fatalistic submission to life's torments, that with just a little more money he could continue his work for God. It was a horror show, an effective and frightening one to anyone who didn't know the truth. Had you been an uninformed but compassionate Christian, you would have hastily emptied your pockets and counted your blessings.

As the credits rolled, we rose and asked the minister whether he had ever been to India, ever seen these things with his own eyes. He said he had not. We assured him and his congregation that what they had just seen was an unspeakable lie. We said a few words about the soulfulness of India and her people, about the generosity, the gentleness, the strength of the family and the enlightened insights of the Hindu path. Then we left, never to forget the hospitable ways of the Assemblies of God.

Jimmy Swaggart wants every Hindu to leave our cherished, ageless and tolerant dharma and follow his path. It's hard to believe, but he truly wants to destroy Hinduism. Now we learn that he is human. Not satanic, not damned. Just human. Hindus need not follow the hypocritical Jimmy Swaggarts of the world to find spirituality, to know God or even to get decent jobs. Maybe Jimmy's fall will help Hindus realize that Christians, even the leaders, have no special ordination from God. They are subject to the same frailties as everyone else. Knowing this, Hindus may more confidently, and politely, close the door on the next Bible-thumping missionary who comes knocking.

To end, I submit that our sins exceed Jimmy's. His was a personal tragedy; ours is a global one. We Hindus are guilty of avarice - putting our children in Christian schools and thus bartering spiritual values for worldly gain. We are guilty of sloth - lazily ignoring our duty to speak out, to act, to protect our tradition when it is assailed. We are guilty of infidelity - forsaking our forefathers, betraying the Sanatana Dharma and trifling with the Mystical Presence of God (whether Vishnu, Siva, Shakti or another). Jimmy has repented. Now we need to do likewise.

Article copyright Himalayan Academy.

G.Subramaniam · 09-07-2008, 08:43 AM

A foolish attempt to convert US NRI Gujus

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1993...993-07-07.shtml

July 1993
Christians Ponder Hinduism in USA

Gujaratis Are Targeted in Strategic, but Scattered, Conversion Programs.

Earlier this year the leading US Christian magazine produced an article, "Hinduism Gains a Foothold in America," detailing of their readers the status of Hindus in America. Hindus are, they said, "a significant minority whose influence extends far beyond their actual numbers." This Hindu influence was of concern. "Whether Hindus will continue to change the increasingly pluralistic American society, or be changed by the evangelical Christians in it, is unclear."

The article's intent was to inform the Christian community about Hindus. But it is equally useful for the Hindus, especially with regard to organized Christian effort to convert US Hindus. For example, Tim and Melanie Schultz of International Missions in New York City have targeted the Gujaratis. Tim has learned the Gujaratis' language, but complains, "They're very open to hearing about the gospel, but to come to the Lord - they're just not interested in that whatsoever." His plans call for starting two Gujarati "house churches" in northern New Jersey.

Another evangelist, Archie for North of the Mission Agencies Network for North American Project, is targeting the 1,00,000 Hindus in his Detroit, Michigan, area. He, too, is frustrated. "I had a 60-year-old multimillionaire who came to me three times to receive Christ as Savior. I told him each time that unless he was willing to empty his 'God shelf' of all other Gods and Goddesses, and to put Jesus alone there, he was not ready to be saved."

A third evangelist, Mahendra Singhal, a 30-year Christian convert from Hinduism heads Hinduism International Ministries of Zion, Illinois. "Singhal says he saw 17 Hindus become Christians through his ministry in home meetings during 1991, which he called a 'tremendous number."

The difficulty of converting Hindus is of concern to Peter Pereira, a native of India ordained in the United Methodist Church. The article reports, "Pereira says witnessing to Hindus is not impossible. 'Friendship evangelism is the best thing." Pereira also notes that many Hindus are looking for opportunities to talk about their beliefs. "They think America is Christianity" he said. 'So they're beginning to [think], 'These guys don't have moral values. Maybe we [Hindus] should offer them [the Americans] something.'"

Among the article's interesting insights into Hinduism were the comments of Harvard University professor Diana Eck on how Hinduism arrived in America, "I think in many [ American Christian] churches, there was a certain amount of concern about whether their sons or daughters were becoming Hare Krishnas. And in the meantime, no one noticed that their surgeon was now a Hindu."

The free-lance author of the article, Stan Guthrie, told Hinduism TODAY this his research "made me think a little bit more than I had that Hindus are really not our antagonists or our enemies, but that they are also searching for the truth and care about society."

The strongest impression left by the article is the frustratingly slow progress of Hindu conversion achieved by the Christian evangelical community. One Hindu religious leader explained that is was impossible to convert a Hindu who understands his religion. In the humorous words of India-born poet Rudyard Kipling:

It is not good for the Christian white to hassle the Aryan brown,

For the Christian riles and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down.

The end of the fight is tombstone white in the name of the dead deceased,

And the epitaph clear: "A fool lies here who tried to hussle the East."

Husky · (This post was last modified: 09-07-2008, 10:06 AM by Husky.)

QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Sep 7 2008, 07:27 AM)http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1983...983-10-05.shtml

October 1983
Stone Cross Unearthed in India Ignites Christian-Hindu Dispute
[right][snapback]87632[/snapback][/right]Amazing regularity with which the compulsive christoliars do this sort of thing.

Took a while to find, but worth it.
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx...eID=5402&SKIN=M
QUOTEKollengode
23/01/2008 00:28:59Â
Be Vigilant
This is the result of the criminal enterprise called as evangelism.
Back in early 60s, a similar stunt was performed by these toddy
tappers. They buried a cross on the way to Sabarimala & "discoved"
it in front of cameras & Malayala Manorama reporter & called it a
great "miracle" by Him who sacrificed His blood for the poor toddy
tappers. They wanted to build a big church on the spot but the hoax
was exposed & they quietly withdrew from the scene because of Hindu
opposition.
Then again, when people wanted to build the Vivekananda Memorial on
the rock off of KanyaKumari coast, these hoodlums opposed it saying
that Kanya Kumari is in rality is Virgin Mary & the rock & temple
belonged to toddy tappers. Luckily no bones were broken since they
withdrew and agreed to play it safe. They have never stopped their
despicable criminal enterprise & they will again try something else
with the sole aim of destroying the Hindu culture & the way of life.
Eternal vigilance is indeed the price of Liberty !!The "Manorama" referred to above is a christoterrorist newspaper in Kerala that uses a Hindu name.

Christianism is terrorism. There is no two ways of looking at it. Non-existent Jeebus is a terrorist huddling point - an "artifice for aggression" as SitaRam Goel so aptly put it.

G.Subramaniam · 09-08-2008, 09:41 AM

Xtianity is simply a way for white men to get access to women of other races

Thanks to xtianity, chinese, korean, philipino, mexican women are very receptive to getting white boyfriends

Husky · (This post was last modified: 09-14-2008, 05:33 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Sep 7 2008, 01:14 AM)I have a suspicion, can someone confirm[right][snapback]87615[/snapback][/right]Mangalorean christians have their own churches in the US. They're not part of mainstream catholic church there.

QUOTEXtianity is simply a way for white men to get access to women of other racesAccess to men/women applies to any people in power. When a particular population is more visible, people get more used to their appearance and start imagining they are very attractive over and above every other population.

But christoislamism just takes women without asking. Look what that faithful, rapist Columbus did to the poor native American woman whom he (self-confessed) "had his way with" against her will. What a way to put it.
I remember in primary, we watched this program about Central Americans being shipped across by early christo slavers (when in the early days of the 'discovery' of the Americas the christos from Europe used native Americans as slaves). This was for history class. The teacher stopped the tape when a pretty young native American woman was grabbed by two sleazy christos (apparently they thought her being topless was some kind of invitation for molestation :christoculture). Still, the teacher was not fast enough, we understood that the implications were unpleasant and it was a traumatic experience for most of us, one of my classmates started to cry even.

Of course horrible rapes happened regularly to African women from the time the slave trading started. The Patricia Rozema-directed version of Jane Austen's Mansfield Park shows shots of drawings made by one of the British characters in plantations or thereabouts of poor African women being raped by the christo-European-handlers. Terribly graphic. Would never advise anyone to see this. Wish I could unsee it myself.
The sickest thing of all is that those images captured reality.

Apparently christos from the british empire in India couldn't keep their christo-claws to themselves either. See the European Imperialism page of http://www.hinduwisdom.info

The islamaniac appetite for attacking heathen women, every Hindu knows about.

But I wouldn't say that the statement in the quoteblock applies to "white" men - as if this were a general fact. I don't know (or rather, don't care) about Americans. Among the uppities of the christo Anglo-Saxon world (WASPCies - C for the catholic cult) there is an odd fantasy going on about other countries' women. To a lesser extent the Nordic and Germanic countries seem to display some kind of abnormal interest too. But the word "white" is too broad a term. For instance, people in E Europe or Russia simply don't have such preoccupations. And outside the WASPCy world, the (non-religious/non-christo-conditioned) people are just normal and aren't really hung up about playing/pretending at being the global prize stud either.

The amount of leering after Russian/E-European women in the WASPy world is even worse. Yet the assymetrical interactions going on there slide by below the radar most of the time because of the fact that the people involved are all "white". The psy-ops against E European men is unbelievable in American series, especially those lame US spy series. The E European/Russian women are shown as beautiful (which they are in reality) with an exotic accent, but the men are oddly presented as being ugly to even monstrous, with a dull accent bordering on sluggish and drunk-sounding, lacking in morals (e.g. drugdealing, arms-dealing, shown to jump women). They're always made out to be the bad guys.
American WASPies' low self-confidence shows. And they have every reason to feel this uncomfortable, because in reality, E European men tend to look just as pleasing to the eye as their female counterparts. To pick a famous example, that tennis-player "Marat Safin"; he's better looking than any American actor, full-stop.
As for ethics, from the E European people I have worked with, I find they have high ethics. They think deeply about world matters and are nowhere as superficial. A large part of the reason is that they are not affected/conditioned by the sadistic western christo strain.
(Here on IF some argued that Orthodox christians think unbelievers go to hell. Be that as it may, how can that bother us? As long as they don't try to convert us and insinuate themselves and their beliefs into our lives/way of life, it does not affect me in the least where they think I will end up. They feel no need to convert others. And we don't either, though I make an exception for Indians who'd converted to christoislamism.)

For a long time there was also a lot of stigma against Irish and Welsh (even Scottish) people - including their lovely accents. Now even WASPy English are stealing Celtic names to give to their non-Celtic children. And in recent years British dramas are often populated by Celtic actors playing English character leads. The changeover was from the 80s (when mostly English fair-haired people dominated BBC productions) to the 90s when darker-haired Celtic actors were often chosen to don the same parts. Always found this changeover curious.

Bodhi · 09-08-2008, 04:20 PM

Husky's post ^

============

The Totalitarians
Tarun Vijay

So what if you expose and warn about the grave fallout of continuing with the special status to Kashmir, that strengthens feelings of separation, we will go ahead with it.

So what if Mahatma Gandhi and Vivekananda had opposed vehemently the proselytization campaigns of the Christian aggressive 'harvesters', we will support them.

So what if the RSS guys were amongst the first to rush to help Bihar flood victims; we shall continue to paint them as barbaric goons busy burning down faith places, who had no time to help the poor, deluged fellow citizens.

So what if a Hindu monk and three others, including a woman monk, were killed brutally by Christian assailants using AK47, we shall put the victims in the category of unmentionables and keep on repeating, 'Hindus attack churches.'

So what if a Google search on Vatican's scandals produces 1.5 million results in less than 0.37 seconds and that includes how a Pope turned his palace into a whorehouse and how their bank swindled millions and the papal authority helped the disintegration of the Soviet Union, not to say apologies on gay scandals. We shall continue to reward those Vatican's protÃ©gÃ©s who use derogatory terms against Hindu monks and testify against their country in a foreign senate.

The icons of hate and barbarism look good and acceptable if made of saffron headbands and tridents. It looks photogenic. Have you ever, even in the passing, saw an icon of hate created out of green flag Jihadis who kill five- year-old girls in the thick of night (Wandhama and Doda) or the Christian rifle wielders who kill an 84-year-old monk and an ochre-robed lady celebrating Krishna's birthday? Have you ever heard or read the agony and pains of those who just want to remain what they are religiously and get killed for that alone?

Waiting for a voice of reason

If I say attack on any religious place - Hindu, Muslim or Christian - is inhuman and as bad as the attacks on American Indian temples and Iran's fire temples, I look around to hear a feeble voice condemning attempts to snatch my Ram and Krishna by firangs and their cohorts who declare 'your God is bad, we have been ordained to bring you to our ministry of heavens - come or else.'

Snatching others' gods is a good business and in the media they are portrayed as noble souls who couldn't find solace in their New Zealand, Australian or Dutch surroundings where Churches are being used for secular purposes in the absence of a laity. So they came to India for spreading education and providing medical help. What's wrong if they also convert? At least they are doing good service.

Hence, if a Hindu monk is killed, he must have done something really bad to invite such a death (that's actually written in a petition to the Indian President by a Christian leader). If, in reaction, churches are torched, that's the handiwork of the goondas of the dead swami - condemn it and caricature Hindus as attackers.

The media, government, parliament and even those who negotiate stairs to power romping on the sacrifices of 'bad, violent, semi literate' saffronites keep a safe distance. Orissa Government and the officials might have thought correctly that the sadhu killed must have been a discarded, mentally ill person who didn't open showrooms of Gods and nirvana in Haridwar and Rishikesh and came to the jungles of Kandhs to educate them. If he were a great soul, at least a few bigwigs from Delhi would have attended his funeral. The Vatican was shaken up and spoke on Orissa, Delhi kept silent on a swami's murder. So be it.

A noble light extinguished

Lakshmanananda was a soul Vivekananda would have been proud of. He carried forward the work of Adi Sankara in the region inhabited by the most disadvantaged people. He left comforts of a religious person enjoying dollar grants and global following and based his small centre to spread new techniques of farming and modern education fortifying faith as a resistance to foreign allurements. He died a martyr but the state government stopped even the mourners to attend his shraddha - the religious ritual done after the 13th day of death, barricading all roads that led to his place.

What the Christian evangelists did to the tribal of the Americas, New Zealand and Australia, completely annihilating and subjugating them to an extent that nothing of their pre-Christian civilization survives, (post Columbus, violence saw seven crore aborigines being killed in America in a span of 100 years and millions in Puerto Rico, Brazil and Australia, just for the lust of gold and to spread the Gospel) the same is being repeated in India's tribal lands to Christianize them with an aggression unknown to the Eastern world, which had believed in the principle of 'live and let live' declaring and practicing the mantra that every path leads to one God hence there is no need to proselytize or convert.

Uninvited harvesters

Nobody understands what's the urgency of the Western forces to earmark billions of dollars to change the faith of India's poor and struggling masses? Who has invited them? They say it's their right to spread the message of the Gospel and bring heathens under the umbrella of Christ. Which Christ do they talk about and who has given them a right to deride and demonise and insult the gods and goddesses of other faiths and say you won't have salvation unless you turn Christian? Why as Hindu tribals they can't reach the God they have been worshipping for ages?

We are the only place of Hindus on this planet that has survived the assaults of Turks, British, Portuguese and all other Abrahamic faiths that brought their book under the shadow of swords and bayonets. Still, they find it uncomfortable to tolerate a great Hindu civilization flourishing and send their proselytizers and dollars to ensure that this millennium becomes a Christian one after conquering Europe, America and Africa. Is that fair and should that be acceptable?

If Hindus can't assert their Hindu characteristics and protect their society in India, would they be expected to do so in Saudi Arabia? And why all the liberal concepts to demoralize and reduce us in numbers are put to action only in Hindu Buddhist majority nations a like India, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Nepal and not in Pakistan or Malaysia or the Arab states? Communism and Christianity have become the biggest annihilators of Hindus in the modern age, yet the largest stocks of candles and peace psalms remain stored in their backyards. What an irony, indeed!

As a Hindu, I celebrate the birth of Jesus as was started by my ideal Vivekananada and is still practiced in all the Ramakrishna maths all over the globe. I could write a piece on Jesus I adore and still be an adherent to my faith. I can show almost every Hindu religious centre in our great pilgrim places having pictures of Jesus with respect and saying all paths lead to one god. Before Swami Dayananda's Shudhi movement, it was impossible to convert to Hinduism as to be a Hindu you had to be borne in a Hindu family, yet we always welcomed and provided equal rights to other faiths - Christians, Muslims, Jews and Parsis. We respected their gods and what, in turn, did they do to us?

The 'return gift'

They consolidated their position to reduce us in numbers and published literature to convince that Hindu gods are good for nothing, so become Christian. They abused Hindu hospitality and then complained against them. Show me a single Christian school in India having a picture of Ram, or even a Vedic scientist like Bhaskaracharya who was father to us all - including Christians of this land? Denying your Pa and adopting new parents can't be called a spiritual experience.

India is passing through a phase of great memory loss. What was ours has been discarded and what we are is looked with suspicion and hate. So you will never find a place called Hindu Heritage Centre of Glory and Invincible spirit. You will never find a picture of Shivaji or Maharana Pratap in any Christian mission school, because they 'are Hindu icons' and not the national ones. But surely you may find pictures of those old proselytizers whose names are too Roman and Greek to be pronounced correctly for any Indian language user, just because they were the propagators of the Christian faith even though they had nothing to do with this land.

By the same yardstick, next time you go to drop your kid to a convent school, pause there to mark that although in some room pictures of Romulus and Remus, the traditional founders of Rome appearing in Roman mythology as the twin sons of the priestess Rhea Silvia, fathered by the God of war, Mars, are found and taught in their textbooks but never would you see a mention of Luv/Kush. Why? Because Roman twins belong to an acceptable memory to the Christian world and Luv-Kush belong to the Hindus. Hence they are unacceptable.

There are Hindus, very well meaning and lovable, who declare ad nauseam that they were educated in a Christian school and are proud of the fact they were never converted. May I also submit my name to the list of such honourables? I was taught in a Christian school and I love my teachers like Jacob sir and Father Benjamin. But should that stop me to say, sir, I do not approve of the work some people do in the name of the faith you belong to and as a Hindu I respect?

Seeing all these proselytizing absurdities Swami Vivekananda had cried - 'Oh God, you are not Christian, go back to Christ.' Today, there is no Vivekananda or his follower to say what he could say a hundred years before.

The eraser called secularism had made it sure that those who were Hindus just a couple of years before begin hating their fathers and grandfathers so much that when one of them pens a petition to the President of a Hindu majority India, and she too happens to be a devout Hindu, he uses intensely insulting words for the Hindu monk who was murdered at the age of 84 by the followers of his faith. He doesn't feel ashamed that his forefathers touched the feet of a Hindu monk, and he, a descendant of that family is behaving as if he was an enemy of that legacy.

Deny all that you had, delete all that was your history, forget all that belonged to you, and then only you become a good Vaticanised Christian. Is that the way Indian constitution should allow such barbarity in the name of secularism that has come to mean 'erase Hinduism' from Hindustan?

Oh, this is what Bapu said

This government swears by Gandhi and prints his pictures on currency notes as a mark of genuine respect. Now read what he said about conversions: 'It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world's progress toward peace. Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man?' (Harijan: January 30, 1937)

No conversion can take place without a straight hate attack. None can convert the other without telling him that the faith he has been following is useless, bad and his gods are incapable to assure salvation. Do you think when the Christian proselytizers go for a 'hunt' they say, 'yes sir Ram and Krishna are also as good and great as our gods?' If they say so, where will be the scope to convert? If just love and compassion are the vehicles to proselytize, what's the need to get the billions of dollars as grants from Western countries? And have you seen the literature they publish to deride and insult Hindu practices and pantheon? It's too ugly even to refer to them. Just go to Catholic sites and ask for the literature they send abroad to gather dollars, it must open your eyes.

Friends who live Jesus

There are good Christians whose life and ideals are worth emulating and who really live Jesus. I know highly respected Syrian Christians of Kerala who are a symbol of goodness and brotherly behavior. They never believed in proselytisation and in fact when there were news- items about Russian Orthodox Church opposing a Krishna temple in Moscow, I had contacted their Arch Bishop and he did help saying Krishna belongs to our nation.

Like Wahabis amongst Sunnis, aggressive Vatican followers do not represent the Christian world that are sowing the seeds of hate and distrust in the Indian society.

Wherever they have pockets of influence that very area demands secession from India. Why? Do Vatican's followers have guts to denounce the Church openly supporting Nagaland's NSCN (IM), a terrorist insurgent movement? The NSCN (IM)'s open declaration is that they are fighting to create a Nagaland for Christ. Has Vatican denounced that too as a 'violation' against the land that has ensured all liberties to propagate their faith?

In a land where democracy and pluralism run in our veins, why are we shy to say no to the totalitarianism of a few?

Isn't it the time when all of us must sit together to think and devise methods ensuring never again a Kosi bundh breach will occur and our people suffer, and guarantee a respectful living for each and every Indian and resolve to win a few more gold medals at the London Olympics and eradicate poverty from India's map as well as terrorism?

Are these questions less important than the issues of conversion and Hindu-Muslim, Christian issues? Will our gods be angry with us if we simply stop telling people about the religious book they MUST read and work for their happiness through providing vehicles to move ahead? Are our gods jealous of other gods and want us to read only what He thinks must be read or is He a Universal symbol of love and just love?

Decide ye, the followers. Choose totalitarianism or pluralism. The choice is yours but then the consequences will not be in your hands.

The author is the Director, Dr Syamaprasad Mookerjee Research Foundation.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/article...24,flstry-1.cms

Bodhi · 09-08-2008, 04:27 PM

he is mistaken on history front.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 09-08-2008, 05:15 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(Bodhi @ Sep 8 2008, 04:27 PM)he is mistaken on history front.[right][snapback]87690[/snapback][/right]He is mistaken about "jesus". Jesus not only never existed, but as per the bible was actually worse than the OT gawd ever was. I wish Tarun Vijay and others taken-in by the christian PR machine (and inventing their own kind character dubbed "jeebus" like some others here - to remain unnamed - have done in the past) would read the entire bible and compare OT and NT and see how NT/jeebus is what introduced eternal hell and damnation.

SitaRam Goel put it so well: the non-existent jeebus is an "artifice for aggression".
Terrible, civilisation-devouring, life-destroying aggression. Keep it away.

G.Subramaniam · 09-08-2008, 06:28 PM

A close look at the Orissa 'Dalit' Panos

Unlike most other SC castes, which have ritually low occupations
such as cleaning toilets or leather working, the Panos dont have these ritually 'unclean' occupations

So how did they end up as untouchables

The answer is they made their livelihood by thievery and fraud and other adharmic occupations, the british even labeled them a criminal caste

--

I watched the U-tube, videos, and where many of the xtian 'pana' were
being interviewed

What struck me was their facial looks were more OBC than SC and they were all extremely slimy smooth-talkers, ( very un-SC like )

--

Next anomaly,
Usually when a caste converts to xtianity, they all convert to one sect of
xtianity, and the pastors are usually upper caste, while the flock is mostly SC

In the U-tube videos, I find the panos have converted to a dozen xtian sects and there are several Pano Pastors

What is happening is that the Panos are gaming the xtian missionaries

By keeping dividing the pano conversions among the various xtian sects,
they are able to get money from all the xtian sects

Husky · (This post was last modified: 09-08-2008, 06:58 PM by Husky.)

QUOTEmade their livelihood by thievery and fraud and other adharmic occupations, the british even labeled them a criminal casteThe last part of the statement actually works out to be a compliment...
But if only they'd robbed the christobrits to give to the poor Hindus whom the christobrits had stolen from, it may have been something. But guess that's not what they did.

G Sub, who cares what 'caste' they imagine they belong to. They're christos now, they belong to no Hindu community. They made their choice. They're part of the terrorist predators in sheep's clothing now.

QUOTEall extremely slimy smooth-talkersSlimy sounds very much like christo influence.

QUOTEtheir facial looks were more OBC than SC<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' />
How anyone can tell beats me. N Indians look N Indian to me. (Well, actually, with the added confirmation of seeing pictures of so many Kashmiris, Indians just look like part of the natural geographic continuum. But I'm speaking with reference to region here: people from Orissa look even more like their neighbours from Orissa than they may look like people from my state for instance.)
And then all the photos of the N Indian "Dalits converting to Buddhism" always shows ueber-fair people. The oryanists in the west must have a hard time adding that up...

Bharatvarsh · 09-09-2008, 02:01 AM

QUOTEReligious act sparks protest
DH News Service, Bangalore:

The attempts by a group of six persons allegedly to promote religion resulted in a foreign national and another person from Andhra Pradesh being dragged to the Halasur police station by locals.

An American national Cannon, Raju and Valluri and three others were engaged in a door-to-door campaign at Muniswamy Appa Road in Jogupalaya in Halasur from 4.30 pm. Presenting visiting cards to people, they urged them to visit their Church every Sunday and that their prayers would get answered.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTETrouble began an hour later when they allegedly started taunting a group of five teenaged boys in front of a mammoth Ganesha pandal. The youngsters who were provoked decided to take them to the police station. As they approached them, the duo tried to abscond but were caught and dragged to the Halasur police station around 6 pm, said Naveen Kumar, who runs his business here. Over 50 people from Halasur joined them. As no inspector was around, the police refused to register any complaint. The group then created a commotion outside the station. Activists from Kannada Rakshana Vedike also landed at the spot.

The group then squatted in front of the station and raised slogans in Kannada, Tamil and Hindi and chanted âBharat Mata Ki Jaiâ. We did not beat them or assault the duo in any manner, claimed the crowd.

A youngster said he had caught two other people a couple of months ago at Cambridge Road and brought them to Halasur police station but they refused to take any action against them. Halasur police have registered a case.

http://deccanherald.com/Content/Sep82008/c...08090888801.asp</div>

09-09-2008, 06:52 AM

How difficult is it to get a Missionary visa these days?

Can't we deport these monkeys for visa violations if they come to preach under the wrong visa?

G.Subramaniam · 09-09-2008, 10:26 AM

QUOTE(thayilv @ Sep 9 2008, 06:52 AM)How difficult is it to get a Missionary visa these days?

Can't we deport these monkeys for visa violations if they come to preach under the wrong visa?
[right][snapback]87735[/snapback][/right]


Missionary visas are banned
Yes they can and have been deported

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